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Oh hey this thread reminds me of that Free Edward Snowden in the news...But seriously tho Insanitee did much more good for the community than harm, it took time and effort to make a database like that. A 6 years in the making information archive for everyone to use for free. I've seen some legit hackers and mod users and they are left untouched.
Sorry but is hard to believe someone get banned for running skipe and steam in background and they can not unban his account. And i'm telling this as an outside observer, used to play vindi eu time ago, i don't even know who is her, just saw some evie glitch videos
Nexon needs to provide Sanitee with evidence of her using unauthorized program. She clearly denies to have used anything unauthorized. This is more than just about appealing Sanitee's ban because this is an alarm for the community. What if Sanitee really didn't use anything unauthorized at the time autoban triggered? I don'the know, what if it's Nexon's computer error? Like come on, I'm not asking for a recheck because Sanitee has been one of the most committed veterans who has persistently contributed unseen tools and resource for Vindi players to use for free. I'm asking for a disclosed investigation because it seems to me that a security program is judging Sanitee's case which tells me that this can happen with anyone who isn't aware of what specifically is "unauthorized".
Vindictusinn is essential not only for new players but also veterans. And now that its officially shut down, Nexon better provide us with useful tools and resource on this website because Nexon's decision just unauthorized Sanitee's work.
Hope she comes to her senses and passes the database on to someone else. No point in punishing the whole community.
I strongly disagree. The decision about closing Vindictus Inn is the correct one.
Case and point:
1. Vindictus Inn is a useful tool for tons of players (helps players = helps Nexon).
2. Most of players don't even know who's behind this website - so how could they care about ban of Sanitee?
3. If the website stays, not many people will speak up, because it won't make basically any difference to them, if the website is gone however - people will notice.
4. It's not only about Sanitee (it is currently), however if you've read the post on Vindictus Inn, you will know that the issue is with BlackCipher that falsely detects 'intrusion', which means that anyone who would like to contribute and help Vindictus community by managing this kind of website - is in danger of receiving ban.
Removing the website is the best option to grab attention of players who find this website useful, to show Nexon how much helpful it is, and that people who develop it - make good work, and by no means they shouldn't receive any ban. In fact they should pay them lol xD, they basically do all the work that Nexon should - FOR FREE... and what do they receive instead? BAN.
I've seen ridiculousness of NA management, heard about it from others tons of times... you shouldn't accept anything they do just because you accept their authority. They are normal PEOPLE same as you - they make mistakes as well... and possibly not everybody really cares about their job and they just follow simple guidelines without any reasonable considerations regarding separate cases.
Honestly it's one of the reasons why I'm still debating whether or not to keep playing this game. They just don't care about those who HELP the community in general.
Make one of the best carry builds for the community and that gets Nerfed.
Just why bother? They won't tell us anything and more than likely my post will EITHER be censored or DELETED by (A) moderator(S) when you ask for clarification to what's going on.
But hey, At least if I go down, then I'll know that the team that worked 6 years on this game just doesn't care about the voices of all that reside in NA, EU, AUS, JP, CN, KR, and TW. By then, their message will be clear. *leaves thread*
@DesireofMine don't think a polls necessary when a majority of us want her to be unbanned and think Nexon is being crazy about this decision, but the title, sure
BlackCipher (autoban program) says she was running a ToS-breaking program, and Sanitee is certain that she didn't.
-removed part-
A goodbye thread is fine, but please do not post any FUD.
@Desireofmine and @Gamble this goes for you as well.
Though @Gamble you do seem genuinely concerned so please rest assured that if you do not break the TOS, a ban like this would not happen.
Also from what I understand (from what has been posted by players) this is not the first offense and she had used her 2nd chance already.
I am a little confused on some of the other posts however, do you players want Nexon to allow fansite owners to be above the rules, isn't that a form of favoritism?
@DesireofMine don't think a polls necessary when a majority of us want her to be unbanned and think Nexon is being crazy about this decision, but the title, sure
Well, it's always good to show the 'numbers'. Also not everybody will make a post, even if they agree... meanwhile clicking one of the poll options is just 2 mouse clicks away. Either way i guess 'the likes' on main post represent it well enough as well ^^.
I am a little confused on some of the other posts however, do you players want Nexon to allow fansite owners to be above the rules, isn't that a form of favoritism?
Seriously? Favouritism? Don't you comprehend anything we've just explained?
1. Fix your BlackCipher. The only reason she got banned is because of YOUR faulty software - not her actions (she didn't do anything wrong).
2. BE MINDFUL. Don't act like bots who just follow simple guidelines. Rules are never accurate, and exceptions should be made in certain situations - which is why you have to judge it separately depending on intentions and freakin LOGIC.
3. Also, please read below if you still don't get anything:
@Dealer - stop removing parts of my post. You don't want people to speak bad of you - then don't give them a reason. Otherwise eat what you cooked and stop pretending.
@DesireofMine don't think a polls necessary when a majority of us want her to be unbanned and think Nexon is being crazy about this decision, but the title, sure
With the title change, this thread is now the same as the old thread. So they are now merged.
I am a little confused on some of the other posts however, do you players want Nexon to allow fansite owners to be above the rules, isn't that a form of favoritism?
Seriously? Favouritism? Don't you comprehend anything we've just explained?
1. Fix your BlackCipher.
2. BE MINDFUL. Don't act like bots who just follow simple guidelines. Rules are never accurate, and exceptions should be made in certain situations - which is why you have to judge it separately depending on intentions and freakin LOGIC.
3. Also, please read below if you still don't get anything:
@Dealer - stop removing parts of my post. You don't want people to speak bad of you - then don't give them a reason. Otherwise eat what you cooked and stop pretending.
Again please do not post false information that can cause players to feel afraid of playing the game. There is no need to be rude about it either.
I removed the false information, please do not repost it.
Edit: I see it was reposted, I am sorry to both OPs of this thread, but since there are players that do not want to follow the rules of the forums (and this weekend no one can handle these players individually), I am going to have to lock this thread. Maybe it can be reopened on Monday.
If you have any questions about the lock, please feel free to PM me.
Just putting my 2 cents in here. As far as player bans go, we do our best to keep communication private. There is no need for us to let the community know what players were banned for or why they don't qualify to be unbanned. We ban players that break our TOS. If there were discrepancies with the ban, then we will lift it. There are also times we will give players the benefit of the doubt. There is no ulterior or sinister plan when we do it. If a player asks to be unbanned, the team discusses why they should or shouldn't be unbanned. Please understand that we look at each ban equally. It wouldn't be fair for us to unban a player for reasons like popularity, because they have played longer, or is someone that is very active on the forums.
In all honesty, I am not sure why fan sites were mentioned. We don't have any control if a fansite goes down for any reason. If a fansite were to go down, that is their decision.
As angry as we all are with the situation, i have to admit Saygo's response was well said and very fair in my opinion. Its very sad to see Sanitee go and there may be some breach or glitches in the black cipher that may or may not have unfairly triggered a ban to her. But its true that regardless of a player's accomplishment, everyone should be treated equally when being assessed for a ban or not. The same principle applies in the justice system of America. A fair unbiased trial must be given without favoritism.
I pray that somehow Sanitee can return to us one way or the other. Until then, we will have to look forward and never forget her immeasurable contribution to our small but closely-knit community. Luckily we have forms of communication with her outside of vindictus and her website.
I agree that Nexon shouldn't have to reveal to the angry mob why they ban a player, and that everyone should be treated equally*. The problem here is two-fold:
1) Sanitee showed us her private communication with Nexon. Nexon's reasoning why it wouldn't lift this recent ban was not because of what she allegedly did or any type of belligerence or aggression on her part. No, it was because "we unbanned you once, so we won't do it again."
What? I'll have to re-read the ToS to see if that's included, because if it's not, it's an idiotic reason. If it IS included, it's an idiotic inclusion. Every ban should be reviewed on its own merits, regardless of past actions. "Repeat offenders" should be given harsher penalties off the bat, but should be given the same chance at a fair review as anyone else. Refusing to review whether a ban is justified because "you already got a second chance" is garbage.
2) BlackCipher is a terrible program surrounded in superstition and mistrust. Without sufficient information from Nexon - information which will never be revealed because it would help botters and exploit makers - we come to our own conclusions and trust the opinions of those who have been screwed over by the program. Those conclusions are that ANYONE can be unjustly banned, thanks to BlackCipher. Such a reality would actually not be a problem IF Nexon had a fair review policy. But, as explained in the first point, they don't.
If you truly decided to fix your process, it would be better for everyone.
*Lastly, on the fansites topic: successful companies like Blizzard don't mind that people datamine their games. In fact, they embrace and promote sites like Wowhead and MMO-Champion for providing quick, accurate, and useful information to the playerbase. I suggest working with players like Sanitee and Shippuu to find out why they've decided to shut down their fansites and how Nexon can treat them better in the future. If they are punished for activities related to their fansites (e.g., looking at COPIES of game files), then that must be taken into account. The best solution would be to make sure they're not regular players at all; I'm not saying hire them outright, but make it clear they have some privileges because they're providing an invaluable service to the community.
I don't think anyone at NA actually cares that the game is datamined (they can't really stop it), it's just that the game they run's anticheat is heavily flawed. If anything, this isn't something to be getting mad at Saygo or NA about, it's something we need to protest towards those that actually manage the game in Korea.
@Dealer -
I've said this before, but I really wish you'd just stick to moderating, and not inject yourself into the discussion like you have. You're not an ambassador to Nexon, you're a volunteer moderator, defending Nexon and dismissing claims made by players is a job for the Community Manager, not a volunteer moderator, all you're doing is stirring up people's anger.
To be honest, I'd like to see some new volunteer mods with a clean slate, rather than keeping ones that have a history of getting into conflicts with users.
If you guys allow people to say their goodbyes to SasoriTetsu then I expect the same for Sanitee.
I never got to personally know her but I really admired the amount of work and love she gave to this community, allowing veterans and new players have access to a crap ton of info on Vindictus Inn, titles, gear, APCalculator, Dye reviewer, and much, much more.
It's so sad for Nexon to push away a long-time helper and player of this game, I hope they re-think their decision regarding the autoban.
Goodbye Sanitee, I'm going to miss your helpful info and pretty pictures + previews you had on CORONAPLEASE.
Saygo stepped in to double check on Sasori, so why not for Sanitee?
@bowtacojr you've pretty much nailed it, also with your comment about dealer kills me on the inside because it's all too true even though in the moderator guildlines it specifically states that vfm's can't speak on the teams behalf when it comes to nexons plans and decisions. If they cant do that much please stick to moderating correctly or resign.
Kommentare
Vindictusinn is essential not only for new players but also veterans. And now that its officially shut down, Nexon better provide us with useful tools and resource on this website because Nexon's decision just unauthorized Sanitee's work.
이건 아닙니다.... 진짜 와..
I strongly disagree. The decision about closing Vindictus Inn is the correct one.
Case and point:
1. Vindictus Inn is a useful tool for tons of players (helps players = helps Nexon).
2. Most of players don't even know who's behind this website - so how could they care about ban of Sanitee?
3. If the website stays, not many people will speak up, because it won't make basically any difference to them, if the website is gone however - people will notice.
4. It's not only about Sanitee (it is currently), however if you've read the post on Vindictus Inn, you will know that the issue is with BlackCipher that falsely detects 'intrusion', which means that anyone who would like to contribute and help Vindictus community by managing this kind of website - is in danger of receiving ban.
Removing the website is the best option to grab attention of players who find this website useful, to show Nexon how much helpful it is, and that people who develop it - make good work, and by no means they shouldn't receive any ban. In fact they should pay them lol xD, they basically do all the work that Nexon should - FOR FREE... and what do they receive instead? BAN.
I've seen ridiculousness of NA management, heard about it from others tons of times... you shouldn't accept anything they do just because you accept their authority. They are normal PEOPLE same as you - they make mistakes as well... and possibly not everybody really cares about their job and they just follow simple guidelines without any reasonable considerations regarding separate cases.
Make one of the best carry builds for the community and that gets Nerfed.
Just why bother? They won't tell us anything and more than likely my post will EITHER be censored or DELETED by (A) moderator(S) when you ask for clarification to what's going on.
But hey, At least if I go down, then I'll know that the team that worked 6 years on this game just doesn't care about the voices of all that reside in NA, EU, AUS, JP, CN, KR, and TW. By then, their message will be clear. *leaves thread*
A goodbye thread is fine, but please do not post any FUD.
@Desireofmine and @Gamble this goes for you as well.
Though @Gamble you do seem genuinely concerned so please rest assured that if you do not break the TOS, a ban like this would not happen.
Also from what I understand (from what has been posted by players) this is not the first offense and she had used her 2nd chance already.
I am a little confused on some of the other posts however, do you players want Nexon to allow fansite owners to be above the rules, isn't that a form of favoritism?
Well, it's always good to show the 'numbers'. Also not everybody will make a post, even if they agree... meanwhile clicking one of the poll options is just 2 mouse clicks away. Either way i guess 'the likes' on main post represent it well enough as well ^^.
You know what you can do with your 'FUD' ^^.
Again, accept criticism with open mind, no need to be so sensitive.
Seriously? Favouritism? Don't you comprehend anything we've just explained?
1. Fix your BlackCipher. The only reason she got banned is because of YOUR faulty software - not her actions (she didn't do anything wrong).
2. BE MINDFUL. Don't act like bots who just follow simple guidelines. Rules are never accurate, and exceptions should be made in certain situations - which is why you have to judge it separately depending on intentions and freakin LOGIC.
3. Also, please read below if you still don't get anything:
@Dealer - stop removing parts of my post. You don't want people to speak bad of you - then don't give them a reason. Otherwise eat what you cooked and stop pretending.
With the title change, this thread is now the same as the old thread. So they are now merged.
Again please do not post false information that can cause players to feel afraid of playing the game. There is no need to be rude about it either.
I removed the false information, please do not repost it.
Edit: I see it was reposted, I am sorry to both OPs of this thread, but since there are players that do not want to follow the rules of the forums (and this weekend no one can handle these players individually), I am going to have to lock this thread. Maybe it can be reopened on Monday.
If you have any questions about the lock, please feel free to PM me.
Just putting my 2 cents in here. As far as player bans go, we do our best to keep communication private. There is no need for us to let the community know what players were banned for or why they don't qualify to be unbanned. We ban players that break our TOS. If there were discrepancies with the ban, then we will lift it. There are also times we will give players the benefit of the doubt. There is no ulterior or sinister plan when we do it. If a player asks to be unbanned, the team discusses why they should or shouldn't be unbanned. Please understand that we look at each ban equally. It wouldn't be fair for us to unban a player for reasons like popularity, because they have played longer, or is someone that is very active on the forums.
In all honesty, I am not sure why fan sites were mentioned. We don't have any control if a fansite goes down for any reason. If a fansite were to go down, that is their decision.
I pray that somehow Sanitee can return to us one way or the other. Until then, we will have to look forward and never forget her immeasurable contribution to our small but closely-knit community. Luckily we have forms of communication with her outside of vindictus and her website.
1) Sanitee showed us her private communication with Nexon. Nexon's reasoning why it wouldn't lift this recent ban was not because of what she allegedly did or any type of belligerence or aggression on her part. No, it was because "we unbanned you once, so we won't do it again."
What? I'll have to re-read the ToS to see if that's included, because if it's not, it's an idiotic reason. If it IS included, it's an idiotic inclusion. Every ban should be reviewed on its own merits, regardless of past actions. "Repeat offenders" should be given harsher penalties off the bat, but should be given the same chance at a fair review as anyone else. Refusing to review whether a ban is justified because "you already got a second chance" is garbage.
2) BlackCipher is a terrible program surrounded in superstition and mistrust. Without sufficient information from Nexon - information which will never be revealed because it would help botters and exploit makers - we come to our own conclusions and trust the opinions of those who have been screwed over by the program. Those conclusions are that ANYONE can be unjustly banned, thanks to BlackCipher. Such a reality would actually not be a problem IF Nexon had a fair review policy. But, as explained in the first point, they don't.
If you truly decided to fix your process, it would be better for everyone.
*Lastly, on the fansites topic: successful companies like Blizzard don't mind that people datamine their games. In fact, they embrace and promote sites like Wowhead and MMO-Champion for providing quick, accurate, and useful information to the playerbase. I suggest working with players like Sanitee and Shippuu to find out why they've decided to shut down their fansites and how Nexon can treat them better in the future. If they are punished for activities related to their fansites (e.g., looking at COPIES of game files), then that must be taken into account. The best solution would be to make sure they're not regular players at all; I'm not saying hire them outright, but make it clear they have some privileges because they're providing an invaluable service to the community.
@Dealer -
I've said this before, but I really wish you'd just stick to moderating, and not inject yourself into the discussion like you have. You're not an ambassador to Nexon, you're a volunteer moderator, defending Nexon and dismissing claims made by players is a job for the Community Manager, not a volunteer moderator, all you're doing is stirring up people's anger.
To be honest, I'd like to see some new volunteer mods with a clean slate, rather than keeping ones that have a history of getting into conflicts with users.
^ Pretty much this
+1 to unban Sanitee