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What program did black cipher catch or is that information private because it could reveal information on how the antihack works?
They apparently refuse to answer that question. They just beat around the bush and make other excuses from what I've witnessed so far.
Actually she was told which program, and since that is between her and Nexon, I won't be posting it.
However you can probably ask around and find out, since I've heard she's shared this information with others.
@Dealer Alright, I'll look around I guess. I'm just curious.
@Khloe To be fair if Sanitee really was hacking or breaking the TOS in any way (I haven't looked up the program Sanitee was using and I don't know Sanitee personally but I know she's popular enough that if she REALLY wanted something if she just begged for it people would have helped her get it so I believe that Sanitee was false positived because she has no incentive to use shady programs and Nexon has to uphold the ban because it's the rules and there is no evidence on their end to dispute their claims) no one would support Nexon's decision to ban her no matter what program/exploit they said she was using unless she blatantly broke the TOS on stream and then bragged about how she would get away with it by holding the community sites hostage. (On a semi-related note I really like long parentheses and run on sentences)
Nexon will never realise there is actually no information about the game on any site except the ones provided by the player base. Thus why the NA population has decreased significantly over the last 3 years.
Just look at the Aussie player base its so minimum its pathetic...
I may have used VindictusInn only once or twice. But I probably used the Armory more than all of you combined.
The armory was still brought down in protest of her ban too. So that likely won't be coming back. Which is sad because I used the armory everyday and it really helped a tremendous amount.
@Daraku9 The parenthesis throw me off a bit. I guess a side note of something you mentioned, no one really supports Nexon based more off of how they've been viewing how Nexon handles and treats most of the disputes that happen between the community and them. No matter how much people rally behind one another in protest and try to get a voice out, Nexon basically does what they want seemingly without regards. (pretend to notice but I do what I want)
Even not knowing Sanitee personally. A 6 year magnitude of dedication towards Vindictus Inn as voluntary work. Anyone who's worked that long on anything wouldn't intentionally mess it up. Also would anyone else care to dedicate themselves to helping a community with information Nexon doesn't provide? T^T (I get really pissed when preview pictures of outfitters never include the shoes. Shoes are everything for girls < )
"Against TOS" There's many other players that are breaking TOS too, also they do more harmful things to the community and Nexon doesn't seem to care much about doing anything about them. So I kind of question why they use that explanation against her and she helps the community.
I honestly think they rely too heavily on Blackcipher as a company. It possibly does the job of several individuals and saves them quite a bit of money. They probably let it do whatever it does unless someone submits a ticket to a human being. The real problem is hard to really explain. There are a bunch of elements that don't work very well together. Those elements being BlackCipher and Nexon's ToS.
BlackCipher I would compare to a cancerous tumor inside a player that nexon refuses to the tell the player about. It grows to the point that the player's account dies and only after the perma-ban are players told that they had cancer. Another real life comparison... BlackCipher is a police officer shooting civilians dead in the street for breaking laws they didn't know they were breaking. Here's another because this is fun... Being suddenly sent to prison for having a gun locked in a gun safe in your house. Sanitee is probably the most popular and known person to be wrongfully banned again because BlackCipher detected a possibly malicious process. Lots of people have been banned just for having AHK installed for work. Nexon can't expect every single casual player to read and memorize their rules. What if BlackCipher simply closed the game and provided the user with information?
"Vindictus.exe has been shutdown as a result of a possible illegal program being detected. Please remove this program to resume playing. Your account has received a mark and your account could be banned if you receive too many. Thank you for playing."
How many players would still be here if they received a simple notification upon their first infraction?
Then there is Nexon's 'rules'. When you come up with rules, they really shouldn't force players to have to break them. If you the company won't provide players with information they need, don't punish them for getting it themselves because obviously that is what they will do. Don't excecute a starving man for stealing bread. I very much suspect the harmless act of datamining (which happens in all mmos with tons of lootable items) is viewed as seriously as it is is because there are things they do not want players to find out. Why else would they care so much to enforce such an archaic rule most other publishers will overlook.
They need to stop ignoring the problem and start addressing it. The amount of damage this single act did to the Vindictus community should not be so easily swept away. It will result in more player loss for the game and that should be something Nexon should take very very very seriously.
Should Sanitee be above the law? I dunno? Are the laws dumb and work in opposition to the creation of fan sites and game databases that are vital or at the very least heavily used by the playerbase?
The thing about this whole Fansites thing is Nexon isn't against them. The reason why they are strict on them is because data mining. Though to be real nearly every fansite is so accurate because of data mining. It's the companies decision to allow an exception or not for fansite purposes of data mining. To be fair there were titles on Sani's site that were never in NA and were only on KR's client. That alone pretty much tells NA "okay that's data mining" since they get all coding KR has and decides what goes in NA's client. As unjust as everyone seems to think this ban may be so long as there is 100% proof that data mining did happen then that alone CAN count as a legit reason to ban. I'm not happy she was banned but as far as I'm concerned I look at things in a more bigger picture.
But the game picked up history of a tool being used. Chances are it's possible the game doesn't base on if the tool is running at the time. It probably looks for if the tool was ran during that session of windows being on. So if for example the PC wasn't restarted then yes NGS will go through the list of last ran programs during that boot session and there ya go.
Having an autoban system attached to this piece of crap with their flawed policy is an issue in itself. People would not be complaining so much if these false positives simply d/c'd you without it counting up towards an autoban. This only places innocent users' accounts at risk. Already made a post regarding it on page 3.
Except we dont know if it truly was a false ban or not. More or less may as well move on from this subject. We cant change this xD if we really want a wiki up with Shippuu's down and not returning then may as well make one instead of complaining. If anything i would rather hear what you guys are looking for in a wiki in case shippuu keeps is down
Having an autoban system attached to this piece of crap with their flawed policy is an issue in itself. People would not be complaining so much if these false positives simply d/c'd you without it counting up towards an autoban. This only places innocent users' accounts at risk. Already made a post regarding it on page 3.
Except we dont know if it truly was a false ban or not. More or less may as well move on from this subject. We cant change this xD if we really want a wiki up with Shippuu's down and not returning then may as well make one instead of complaining. If anything i would rather hear what you guys are looking for in a wiki in case shippuu keeps is down
In terms of Sanitee's ban, we know that is was not a false ban at all.
She was even given information on the program that was caught.
Also as her first ticket response stated, this was not the first time she was caught breaking the TOU, and she was actually already on her last chance.
So it really seems out of place that players are still bringing up BlackCipher in this particular conversation, since regardless of whether it was involved or not, this is not a case of a false positive or unjust ban.
In terms of Sanitee's ban, we know that is was not a false ban at all.
She was even given information on the program that was caught.
The information provided to her was from the first ban, not the second ban.
The 2nd ban was a false positive, but yes, the first ban was not false.
No the information was for the 2nd, not the first. The 2nd was not a false positive.
No Dealer, now you're just lying. Where did you even hear this from?
I know this because I spoke with the GM with Sanitee and he said the information was gathered from the first ban, not the 2nd.
Ok, I really don't know why you think I would lie.
However, since this is as much of an issue on the forums as anywhere else, I was told it was only in terms of the 2nd ban.
Ok, I really don't know why you think I would lie.
However, since this is as much of an issue on the forums as anywhere else, I was told it was only in terms of the 2nd ban.
You are not Sanitee nor are you the GM who investigated this case.
Have you ever thought to yourself that maybe, just MAYBE, it WAS a false positive? Nah, what am I saying, that's nonsense.
Dealer knows every exact detail about this case, she can't be wrong. She was there when Sanitee opened that illegal program and she was there when the GM told her why she was banned. Brilliant!
In terms of Sanitee's ban, we know that is was not a false ban at all.
She was even given information on the program that was caught.
Also as her first ticket response stated, this was not the first time she was caught breaking the TOU, and she was actually already on her last chance.
So it really seems out of place that players are still bringing up BlackCipher in this particular conversation, since regardless of whether it was involved or not, this is not a case of a false positive or unjust ban.
Dealer, I am not talking about Sanitee. I am focusing on the underlying issues. If you had read my post on page 3, you will see that I have had issues with Black Cipher before as well as many players I used to talk to.
Since you love focusing on Sanitee so much, then tell me why some players have gotten unbanned twice, while others only get unbanned once.
Also, tell me when an autoban system has ever worked in this game. Remember the hero mode autobans? Remember the running-too-many-dungeons autobans?
It's hard to stay positive when you were also just banned... BTW, I posted my thread in the general section, which it technically belongs in, as it's related to the game and potentially everyone that plays it... I wanted it to be seen! Most people only look at general forum anyways, but you know this, and that's why you moved it. I'm sure you will argue otherwise, as you have always been known to do so, Dealer... This situation is effecting so many people regardless of what they do on their own personal computers. Next thing you know, we wont be able to have any applications open besides Vindictus. At this point, Nexon might as well supply us with a fully locked down Windows ISO , running Vindictus exclusively. What has this environment turned into, Nazzi Germany?
lol, Nazzi is censored. Its a part of history, not a swear word...
Having an autoban system attached to this piece of crap with their flawed policy is an issue in itself. People would not be complaining so much if these false positives simply d/c'd you without it counting up towards an autoban. This only places innocent users' accounts at risk. Already made a post regarding it on page 3.
Except we dont know if it truly was a false ban or not. More or less may as well move on from this subject. We cant change this xD if we really want a wiki up with Shippuu's down and not returning then may as well make one instead of complaining. If anything i would rather hear what you guys are looking for in a wiki in case shippuu keeps is down
In terms of Sanitee's ban, we know that is was not a false ban at all.
She was even given information on the program that was caught.
Also as her first ticket response stated, this was not the first time she was caught breaking the TOU, and she was actually already on her last chance.
So it really seems out of place that players are still bringing up BlackCipher in this particular conversation, since regardless of whether it was involved or not, this is not a case of a false positive or unjust ban.
Having an autoban system attached to this piece of crap with their flawed policy is an issue in itself. People would not be complaining so much if these false positives simply d/c'd you without it counting up towards an autoban. This only places innocent users' accounts at risk. Already made a post regarding it on page 3.
Except we dont know if it truly was a false ban or not. More or less may as well move on from this subject. We cant change this xD if we really want a wiki up with Shippuu's down and not returning then may as well make one instead of complaining. If anything i would rather hear what you guys are looking for in a wiki in case shippuu keeps is down
In terms of Sanitee's ban, we know that is was not a false ban at all.
She was even given information on the program that was caught.
Also as her first ticket response stated, this was not the first time she was caught breaking the TOU, and she was actually already on her last chance.
So it really seems out of place that players are still bringing up BlackCipher in this particular conversation, since regardless of whether it was involved or not, this is not a case of a false positive or unjust ban.
aren't you just a forum moderator?
Right? Weird a volunteer forum moderator has this kind of info and is against getting a very helpful player unbanned.
Comments
@Khloe To be fair if Sanitee really was hacking or breaking the TOS in any way (I haven't looked up the program Sanitee was using and I don't know Sanitee personally but I know she's popular enough that if she REALLY wanted something if she just begged for it people would have helped her get it so I believe that Sanitee was false positived because she has no incentive to use shady programs and Nexon has to uphold the ban because it's the rules and there is no evidence on their end to dispute their claims) no one would support Nexon's decision to ban her no matter what program/exploit they said she was using unless she blatantly broke the TOS on stream and then bragged about how she would get away with it by holding the community sites hostage. (On a semi-related note I really like long parentheses and run on sentences)
Just look at the Aussie player base its so minimum its pathetic...
#RIPVindictusInformation #RIPBuildGuides
The armory was still brought down in protest of her ban too. So that likely won't be coming back. Which is sad because I used the armory everyday and it really helped a tremendous amount.
@Daraku9 The parenthesis throw me off a bit. I guess a side note of something you mentioned, no one really supports Nexon based more off of how they've been viewing how Nexon handles and treats most of the disputes that happen between the community and them. No matter how much people rally behind one another in protest and try to get a voice out, Nexon basically does what they want seemingly without regards. (pretend to notice but I do what I want)
Even not knowing Sanitee personally. A 6 year magnitude of dedication towards Vindictus Inn as voluntary work. Anyone who's worked that long on anything wouldn't intentionally mess it up. Also would anyone else care to dedicate themselves to helping a community with information Nexon doesn't provide? T^T (I get really pissed when preview pictures of outfitters never include the shoes. Shoes are everything for girls
"Against TOS" There's many other players that are breaking TOS too, also they do more harmful things to the community and Nexon doesn't seem to care much about doing anything about them. So I kind of question why they use that explanation against her and she helps the community.
BlackCipher I would compare to a cancerous tumor inside a player that nexon refuses to the tell the player about. It grows to the point that the player's account dies and only after the perma-ban are players told that they had cancer. Another real life comparison... BlackCipher is a police officer shooting civilians dead in the street for breaking laws they didn't know they were breaking. Here's another because this is fun... Being suddenly sent to prison for having a gun locked in a gun safe in your house. Sanitee is probably the most popular and known person to be wrongfully banned again because BlackCipher detected a possibly malicious process. Lots of people have been banned just for having AHK installed for work. Nexon can't expect every single casual player to read and memorize their rules. What if BlackCipher simply closed the game and provided the user with information?
"Vindictus.exe has been shutdown as a result of a possible illegal program being detected. Please remove this program to resume playing. Your account has received a mark and your account could be banned if you receive too many. Thank you for playing."
How many players would still be here if they received a simple notification upon their first infraction?
Then there is Nexon's 'rules'. When you come up with rules, they really shouldn't force players to have to break them. If you the company won't provide players with information they need, don't punish them for getting it themselves because obviously that is what they will do. Don't excecute a starving man for stealing bread. I very much suspect the harmless act of datamining (which happens in all mmos with tons of lootable items) is viewed as seriously as it is is because there are things they do not want players to find out. Why else would they care so much to enforce such an archaic rule most other publishers will overlook.
They need to stop ignoring the problem and start addressing it. The amount of damage this single act did to the Vindictus community should not be so easily swept away. It will result in more player loss for the game and that should be something Nexon should take very very very seriously.
Should Sanitee be above the law? I dunno? Are the laws dumb and work in opposition to the creation of fan sites and game databases that are vital or at the very least heavily used by the playerbase?
But the game picked up history of a tool being used. Chances are it's possible the game doesn't base on if the tool is running at the time. It probably looks for if the tool was ran during that session of windows being on. So if for example the PC wasn't restarted then yes NGS will go through the list of last ran programs during that boot session and there ya go.
In terms of Sanitee's ban, we know that is was not a false ban at all.
She was even given information on the program that was caught.
Also as her first ticket response stated, this was not the first time she was caught breaking the TOU, and she was actually already on her last chance.
So it really seems out of place that players are still bringing up BlackCipher in this particular conversation, since regardless of whether it was involved or not, this is not a case of a false positive or unjust ban.
The information provided to her was from the first ban, not the second ban.
The 2nd ban was a false positive, but yes, the first ban was not false.
No the information was for the 2nd, not the first. The 2nd was not a false positive.
No Dealer, now you're just lying. Where did you even hear this from?
I know this because I spoke with the GM with Sanitee and he said the information was gathered from the first ban, not the 2nd.
Ok, I really don't know why you think I would lie.
However, since this is as much of an issue on the forums as anywhere else, I was told it was only in terms of the 2nd ban.
You are not Sanitee nor are you the GM who investigated this case.
Have you ever thought to yourself that maybe, just MAYBE, it WAS a false positive? Nah, what am I saying, that's nonsense.
Dealer knows every exact detail about this case, she can't be wrong. She was there when Sanitee opened that illegal program and she was there when the GM told her why she was banned. Brilliant!
Dealer, I am not talking about Sanitee. I am focusing on the underlying issues. If you had read my post on page 3, you will see that I have had issues with Black Cipher before as well as many players I used to talk to.
Since you love focusing on Sanitee so much, then tell me why some players have gotten unbanned twice, while others only get unbanned once.
Also, tell me when an autoban system has ever worked in this game. Remember the hero mode autobans? Remember the running-too-many-dungeons autobans?
lol, Nazzi is censored. Its a part of history, not a swear word...
Inb4 this comment gets edited/moved or deleted.
aren't you just a forum moderator?
Right? Weird a volunteer forum moderator has this kind of info and is against getting a very helpful player unbanned.