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RIP our usefull fansites

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  • DokkunDokkun
    Vindictus Rep: 1,500
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    Zuzuk wrote: »
    even Sagyo said he got banned once
    Saygo wrote: »
    I have never been banned.

    oh okay

    Im really just saying nexon doesnt have to share it with the WHOLE public like people are raging on about, i do agree she should get a more detailed explanation during an appeal but its really between her and nexon untill then. And its her decision to take down the resources, she didnt HAVE to but we 'll just have to adjust if things stay like this :/
  • RizzleRizzle
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    Wow. Comments ninja'd again. Confirmed. While you guys are at it, you need to wake up and smell the new generation. We like transparency, not having comments removed when mods were losing arguments.
  • GhengisJohnGhengisJohn
    Vindictus Rep: 3,340
    Posts: 257
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    edited January 25, 2017
    Aw man. Sanitee is an incredibly nice person who puts way too much time into this game. I'd run into her character on west all the time, she was always very nice and funny. Generous with her gold and her time and kind to a fault. I remember when I was trying to get this one fishing title where you had to harpoon these special fish, she hung out with one of my characters for like 2 hours, just to help me as a spotter.

    Please unban her. I'm certain she's done nothing wrong and even if she did, you need people like her around, trust me. I've gotten warnings before about game security being compromised or that I was running unathorized programs and my game would shut down and it terrifies me. I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary or suspicious and yet I have set off false positives somehow, so I'm certain it does happen.

    If someone from the community could help her out, I'd appreciate it. No really, don't just turn your heads away and keep silent. Do something about it.
    Saygo wrote: »
    Following up with this thread.
    Unfortunately we can't look the other way when a player breaks TOS.
    Here's the thing though Saygo, you and I both know that she probably didn't do anything wrong.
    Delteros
  • BreadmanBreadman
    Vindictus Rep: 1,680
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    edited January 25, 2017
    If there really was legitimate reason for the ban, then we'd like to know about it so we can accept it. For all the time and effort Sanitee has spent for the game, making information available for the community out of her own time with no compensation, she deserves this. Now, it all seems fishy with no information being given and seems like another instance of BlackCipher going bonkers.
    I really hope it's not just for datamining, because that's ridiculous. People datamine for Blizzard games and they don't just throw bans out for that even if the datamining comes out even before the official blue posts.

    Nexon has improved a lot with their management of the game, but this is definitely a pretty big issue and would probably undo all the good that has been done thus far. Don't treat this as a threat, but I can see this might put off a sizable amount of the veteran players still on the game.

    Sanitee has my hammer.
  • MrGoldMrGold
    Vindictus Rep: 1,490
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    edited January 25, 2017
    I refuse to purchase anymore NX currency, until this matter is resolved. I hope everyone else will do so as well. Your company does not deserve OUR money, if this is how a loyal 6+ year veteran player(or any other kind of player) is treated.
    Khloe
  • HighKingHighKing
    Vindictus Rep: 310
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    edited January 25, 2017
    We changed our minds, we're going to find a different game to play.
    Khloe
  • BowtacojrBowtacojr
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    I really don't understand why people are shouting "but Blizzard let's their players datamine!" Really, that's like a child whining that the neighbor kid get's something and they don't.

    The core of this dispute needs to be, "is datamining against NEXON's terms of service." If it is, then Sanitee's ban was justified, if it's not, she should be unbanned.

    If Nexon agrees that datamining is ok, then we need to have a discussion about Black Cipher's false positives, but you all can't just shout, cry, and whine, the only thing it does is give Nexon a reason to ignore you.
    ZuzukOrder5
  • TannakraTannakra
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    edited January 25, 2017
    what i want to know is why are the Asian versions that use XignCode have a version of black cipher that DOESNT nuke your perfomance and the EU/NA versions that used to use Hackshield dont use XIGNCODE instead....

    also Sanitee taking down the fansite as a direct result of being banned by Nexon seems reasonable to do since she can no longer play
    XieGhengisJohnVelisiriaKhloe
  • GewelliriousGewellirious
    Vindictus Rep: 2,945
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    Tannakra wrote: »
    what i want to know is why are the Asian versions that use XignCode have a version of black cipher that DOESNT nuke your perfomance and the EU/NA versions that used to use Hackshield dont use XIGNCODE instead....

    also Sanitee taking down the fansite as a direct result of being banned by Nexon seems reasonable to do since she can no longer play

    Hey what ? I'm pretty sure I saw XIGN once for Vindictus, but it's like they removed it actually. °°

  • BreadmanBreadman
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    Bowtacojr wrote: »
    I really don't understand why people are shouting "but Blizzard let's their players datamine!" Really, that's like a child whining that the neighbor kid get's something and they don't.

    The core of this dispute needs to be, "is datamining against NEXON's terms of service." If it is, then Sanitee's ban was justified, if it's not, she should be unbanned.

    If Nexon agrees that datamining is ok, then we need to have a discussion about Black Cipher's false positives, but you all can't just shout, cry, and whine, the only thing it does is give Nexon a reason to ignore you.

    I guess. But then why did Nexon leave it alone for 6 years if it really was for data mining?
    But it indeed is as you said. Nexon isn't saying why she got flagged for the ban and that indeed is the core problem.
  • jeddyhijeddyhi
    Vindictus Rep: 1,880
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    How about banning blackcipher. We would all really support that. I can't play the game with it running. Well, I can if I turn off the UI completely. Speaking of which, the game is unplayable for me with UI turned on. When I turn it off, the game plays as smooth as a high def movie. I think you people need to stop banning good people and start feeding the hamsters running your little spinning wheels.
  • KaricKaric
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    It is really sad about how Nexon handled this situation. I do not know much about Sanitee, but I really appreciate her beautiful work for Vindictus community. I had used her site before to farm titles. It was really helpful and saved lots of my time. From what I know, I believe she is a loyal player and really loves this game; thus there is no way that she could put a harm on this game nor the company. She deserves a chance to be reconsidered her case and unbanned if it's system's fault. I'm sure many people here would really appreciate that including myself.
    My regards.
    jeddyhiXieKhloePixelPantsuFlufffyParrot
  • TotalSinnerTotalSinner
    Vindictus Rep: 100
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    Instead of insisting that nobody knows why she was banned or rather why taking the hate train on Nexon and their use of Black Cipher; really should consider that she must of somehow obtained the items for the vindictusinn db, and if you know what that means, she was flagged for accessing game files to datamine them, it isn't that hard to piece together; now as to how and why Black Cipher flagged her for an unauthorized program is no other than Black Cipher finding out about temporary files being located in Windows, let alone having Registry Values and Explorer contextual menu options, which may include a convert x to y file type. So in other words, everyone should stop with the FUD spreading and thinking y'all have the community's voice because I agree with the ban enacted towards her, she messed up and she knew better than to try and tamper with game files, so that should answer why she was banned, so seriously, stop being so bent on losing tools and learn to cope with the losses. As for the manual, that's just him being very immature about the situation, wanting to fuel a lash to Nexon for being proactive of their game and avoid tampering of any sort, let alone unfair favoritism. There are others who get banned, and yet, there's no "big deal made" since they don't have fan websites set up, yet here's everyone else who I bet majority don't know Sanitee at the personal level and just like the website she had, nothing more. So how about stop being a bunch of whiny kids and learn to suck it up; learn from the experience and move on.

    And note, I normally don't side with decisions made majority of the time, this one, however, is pegged on the head. And before any "You don't know anything," I do know what occurred and such, I don't need someone from the tainted discord to give me a flowery version of her being innocent; and as such, could I ask for a mod to close this thread, it is causing unnecessary FUD.
  • ZuzukZuzuk
    Vindictus Rep: 1,690
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    .
    A lot of blablabla but yo uare missing something very important here, Nexon stated the reason she isnt getting her account back is "we already unbanned you once", thats it, theres no "you where using x program so thats why you got autobanned", meaning they refuse to bring a real reason, what you just said its just speculation that MAYBE she got autobanned for datamining, and IF thats the case, Nexon could at least say so, but they dont, that missinformation fuels the rage and thats why ppl dont trust the company.
  • TotalSinnerTotalSinner
    Vindictus Rep: 100
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    Zuzuk wrote: »
    .
    A lot of blablabla but yo uare missing something very important here, Nexon stated the reason she isnt getting her account back is "we already unbanned you once", thats it, theres no "you where using x program so thats why you got autobanned", meaning they refuse to bring a real reason, what you just said its just speculation that MAYBE she got autobanned for datamining, and IF thats the case, Nexon could at least say so, but they dont, that missinformation fuels the rage and thats why ppl dont trust the company.
    And do you have such proof of that being said or is it just a little I was told this and I must be hyped to try and get my asset back?
  • AcelAcel
    Vindictus Rep: 1,655
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    edited July 29, 2017
    ZuzukKhloe
  • NoburoNoburo
    Vindictus Rep: 2,940
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    Why hasn't Nexon staff acknowledged the importance of the fansites that we lost, nor shown any interest in replacing them in any way with official knowledge resources? Saygo literally came in here and said "In all honesty, I am not sure why fan sites were mentioned" as though he doesn't understand how valuable resources like that are for us. Yeah, losing Sanitee sucks and BlackCipher is a garbage anti cheat like most of the ones in these import asian mmos, but that's out of our hands at this point. I thought this thread was about "RIP our usefull fansites", but it hasn't been for like 3 pages now. The BlackCipher/ban conversation has just gone sour and the thread's just going to get locked if we just throw speculations at eachother instead of discussing the information defeciency we now suffer from.

    In a couple of recent tickets I've actually been told to try asking around the forums for help from our knowledgeable community members for help with future problems. What happens if the knowledgeable players start to leave, stop posting here, or just forget things? People have to go dig up news posts from a year ago just to figure out how item composite works, or even further for older systems that still have garbage or no tutorial dialogue in game? Check the wiki that we were last being encouraged to update when Zoltar was around? Oh wait, that was around when that one guy who also shut down his site recently got IP banned for sharing datamined information on the forums, leading to a lot of people boycotting the wiki from then on instead.

    What's your plan Nexon? You have nothing like an item database on here, you never discuss future content with us until about a week or two before launch, you don't even have anything like a "Current Issues" thread right now to stop people from clogging up the forums with the same complaint threads every day. You have no section on the official site dedicated to explaining system mechanics and instead rely on players to explain everything in game or on the forums whenever someone new gets confused by your bungled up translations. You only have a link to the wiki which isn't very well taken care of anymore, and a page with official wallpapers and videos from your YouTube channel. Look at this wiki page, it doesn't even have all of Karok's smashes on it after he's been revamped for nearly a year, and this is the quality of the information source you're directing us to? Shouldn't you take some pride in being a reliable information source for your own game?

    We don't even have a characters preview section anywhere on the site. I can go back REEEEEALLY FAR and find this post for a very vague description of what Hurk plays like before bring up the game and playing him myself or going to the wiki. That's nice to have, but I only found that in a reasonable amount of time because I remember when everything over the past 5 years was released. That's also the oldest post you can go back and find on here, meaning no introduction to Vella, Kai, Karok, etc.

    tl;dr Site needs more info, especially on old system mechanics and character info. The "go check the wiki" attitude doesn't work when it's not well supported.
    ZuzukKhloePixelPantsu
  • ZuzukZuzuk
    Vindictus Rep: 1,690
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    Zuzuk wrote: »
    .
    And do you have such proof of that being said or is it just a little I was told this and I must be hyped to try and get my asset back?

    A reliable source yeah
  • XieXie
    Vindictus Rep: 2,115
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    edited January 27, 2017
    ** Sorry, this is a long post so I've split it into two chunks so it's easier to read. The tldr and conclusion is in the second post below.
    ** It's pretty much a summarization of all the discussions related to this that I've seen so far and trying to tie all the pieces together.

    I've been keeping watch over all of the discussions ever since this issue started. Both in forums, outside of forums, and in-game. There were some disccussion outside of forums that others weren't present for or had missed that had lead to some confusion and spawning many different perspectives on the situation. So far, I think there are four main perspectives on this situation coming from many different directions. I will try and summarize the perspectives from all sides the best I can though it may not be completely correct, but I hope it comes close.

    Nexon's Perspective:
    For Nexon, they're just following the guidelines or the rules. They don't give anybody special favors nor do they know who the distinguished players of the community nor what they do. So, they're not really sure why the community is acting this way.

    (History) Some background on Nexon's view on Fansites in the Pasts:
    I've been around for three, nearly four years now, so I've read, participated, and watched many discussions come and go on forums over the years. One of the discussions that I've seen many times over the past few years is Nexon's dislike for Fansites. They can't control what happens in Fansites if something goes wrong. But with the new Nexon employees and ... possibly some new management? I'm not sure if the current Nexon is still against Fansites.

    ** Two questions that I think needs to be cleared up from Nexon are "Is Nexon still against Fansites?" and "What is Nexon's position on datamining?" I think these two questions are important so that the community knows the boundaries.

    Some things about datamining:
    When someone's datamining, they're just reading then closing the data. There are no manipulations nor tampering. If there were tampering, then you would have a hacker or modder on your hands, not a dataminer. A dataminer just reads then closes. Whether it is to accurately get a list of titles without having to spend thousands of hours trying to get a title only for its descriptions, or just gather information on an object and what its purpose.

    If you really want to put a dataminer out of a job then there needs to be a reliable and up-to-date database, which is something that this playerbase wanted and needed years ago and also the main reason why players datamine. Helpful players only do it to build a reliable database of information; a dictionary for other players to use in-game.

    As for the other perspectives on this issue...

    Sanitee's Supporters' perspective:
    I think this group is mostly composed of West and a little bit of East. The players in this group knows Sanitee on many levels. They've all hung out, talked, and played with Sanitee and just want to support her. She has a large group of friends, a lot more than you guys think, nearly all of the old veterans know her. She never asked anyone for help. Yes, she posted a notification on her site about her status but it was to raise awareness that she is gone and can no longer update the website so that people don't go around asking, "where did Sanitee go?" Though I cannot speak for her myself, I just want to emphasize that Sanitee did not ask for any of this.

    A lot of the community just want to voluntarily help her in return for all of the help that she's given them for the past six years. They just hope that Sanitee gets unbanned one day, but if not, then they hope that she finally recieves the answers to the question that's been on everyones' minds; "was the ban just or unjust? And what program had triggered BlackCipher?"



    Sanitee
  • XieXie
    Vindictus Rep: 2,115
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    edited January 28, 2017
    A continuation of my previous post.

    Fansite Supporter's perspective:
    It's not just about Sanitee, it's also about the deep-seated dislike that Nexon has for Fansites that goes way back. There were some speculations that the cause of Sanitee's ban was based from Nexon's resistance to Fansites. Whether or not the dislike of Fansites was related to Sanitee's ban, I'm not sure, only Nexon can answer that.

    As much as they want Sanitee unbanned, the people from this group also wants Nexon to allow the creation of resource Fansites that helps other players and give accurate, up-to-date sources for the community to use. This is why the mention of Fansites was brought up; it was thought that Sanitee's Fansite was the reason that got her banned. The overall information of the game is severely lacking and nearly all of the databases for this game are either currently out of date or shutdown. Now, the two most accurate and up-to-date databases being kept by players are gone unless if Nexon finally gives the community the permission to create the long needed resourceful Fansites that had been denied for so many years.

    Neutral's Perspective:
    There is also another perspective to this matter. Most of the people in this group doesn't know Sanitee or never heard of her until now. In my opinion, I think they have the most unbiased opinions, but at the same time, most of the information in their comments are inaccurate due to inaccurate knowledge about Sanitee, "the history of Nexon NA and the old community," and unawareness of Nexon's dislike for Fansites.

    Some people think that the sites should be passed on. My response to that are in the paragraphs below.

    (Optional) My opinion for the Fansites closing:
    I think the site owners' decisions to shut down of the fansites was reasonable. I am also saddened by the loss of two great fansites but the site owners are not obligated to keep the databases up nor is community entitled to have the site owners keep their databases up for the community. To find information, maintain, and update their databases is something that they've chosen to do as their hobby, it is not their job. If you were suddenly severely punished for doing your hobby, would you want to continue doing your hobby?

    There was also an argument of having the site owners pass on their databases to another person. But then the question is, will that next person have the programming skills to update and maintain a database? ... But also willing to risk getting banned if Nexon is still against having Fansites and/or datamining? Not to mention the site owners also have to pay real money to keep the sites up and running. Keeping a domain up is not free and it can be expensive, so I don't disagree with their decisions to close down if they're possibly being punished for doing what was right for the community.

    I know that they know what the consequences will be for doing this but I don't think this is the right way to end things. Please at least let Sanitee know what she had done, please don't just say "once one is unbanned, one cannot be unbanned again," because she truly doesn't know what she did. If you say that I'm being played then I strongly disagree because I talked and played with her ever since I was a new player, three years ago. I will stand by what I said in my free will.

    Conclusion:
    As for my perspective on this, this is getting a little out of hand, I know it's impossible to make it so that everyone is happy so I just want this to end with everyone content. There are three important questions that needs to be answered to resolve these issues and clear up any gray areas to prevent future disputes, all of it can be answered by Nexon.
    1. What's Nexon's position datamining? Is it allowed or no?
    2. What's the current Nexon's stand on Fansites? Are they allowed or not? If not, what's the reason?
    3. What program was flagged that lead to Sanitee's ban? Only Sanitee needs to know.

    I hope this post brings some light to things. If I am wrong on some things, please let me know either here or in private so I can correct.

    tldr:
    Nexon is just following the rules. Nexon does not like Fansites. Some of the old community knows this and suspects Sanitee's ban is because of Nexon's dislike for Fansites. Does Nexon not allow us to make resourceful Fansites and/or datamine? Please let Sanitee know the program that accidently got her banned. There is a thought that's flying around, "If it is not a program that caused her ban, then it must be Nexon's dislike toward Fansites that got her banned."

    inb4 No one reads any of it cause it's too long...
    KhloeSanitee