Rezi

CometCupid wrote: »

If I remember right, someone referred to cellphone games, or in this case turn-based scrollers as having an "illusion" of gameplay. You press the button, the game does the rest for you. It's interactive artwork at best. If you can run in, slap your hands on the keyboard and finish a battle doing nothing, you didn't actually play the game, you just got a participation award for looking good.

They're called Idle RPGs, but even they have actual gameplay. The point of Idle RPGs is to manage the auto-battle. The characters in the game keep auto-grinding and gaining gold and exp, then you are supposed to upgrade their equipment, level them up, and/or replace them through shops and drops. It's basically a hero management game, but the point there is the management aspect. In fact, some of these games punish you for not auto-ing, either by pausing the game for some reason or just being offline. Games like Auto RPG defined the genre while games like WorkeMon have made it more complex and, to a point, even difficult.

Vindi Rise doesn't even do that much. All you have to do is click-click-click two buttons and move around and the game plays itself. You don't have to find NPCs to turn quests in, as the game auto-continues, and even your equipment automatically replaces itself with better equipment. You don't even need to manage your characters...which is why Idle RPGs actually require more player input than Rise does.

Aerodos wrote: »

1. What they essentially did in terms of the difficulties was they removed the previous normal mode and hard mode and changed easy mode to the new normal mode, which is what you run when you go through story and up until level 90.

Rade wrote: »

2. The economy of the game is arguably the healthiest it's ever been. Virtually every drop has non-trivial value and a use worth holding on to them or buying them for. The inflation the NA servers have been suffering from for years has finally died down to a more proper valuation. There are a common items that can be obtained and sold in large quantities for decent sums, uncommon items that have fair value on their own, and rare items that are worth large amounts. Almost all of these items are readily obtainable with reasonable amounts of effort on your own, and generally are in supply on the marketplace as well.

3. You don't see people selling highly-enhanced gear anymore because they're trying to make it for themselves first (especially considering how much more potent they've been made), the lack of inflation means there are fewer and fewer people who have the large sums of cash available to make such a purchase for them to sell to, and it's not even clear how much gold the items are actually worth with the reworked economy anyway.

4. The Rise update addressed and fixed the vast majority of core issues with the game that everyone had been complaining about for years. It also changed a lot of things people weren't expecting, but if you look at those changes and give them a chance, it adds up to a better game experience that focuses in on what made the game good in the first place. There are some areas that still need further improvement, but because of how much the developers have been making further adjustments and changes in frequent patches in the Korean client, there's a lot of reason to be hopeful that those areas that are lacking will be filled in over the next couple of months. Rise was designed to rebuild the game's core and give it a solid foundation so that there will be room to grow and create lots of new and interesting experiences.

5. What's keeping the game from growing isn't the Rise update - it's the attitude of the players that are so close-minded toward change that are immediately saying the game sucks now and is dead and everyone should stop playing it, while creating biased polls where the only options are agreement. Ironically, many of those people are saying it while they're still playing regularly and putting in several hours on the game each day.

6. Changing from 8 to 4 for the majority of runs is something I support. It forces players to actually pay attention to the boss's attack patterns and learn the mechanics

7. The game doesn't really properly start until you hit season 3 and level 90 content. That's the core of the game, and it has been since well before Rise, but it took far, far too long for new players to reach that point. They've shifted the baselines and condensed the early phases to allow for new players to actually get into the meat of the game instead of playing for months without getting to it. The revamped hero mode allows that lower content to still stay relevant and have a level of challenge, although its implementation is currently incomplete and needs to be filled out more properly.

8. I never said it was perfect and doesn't have problems that need addressing, but there's ample reason to hope that those problems will continue to be addressed as time goes on.

1. Rise Normal is a nerfed version of pre-Rise easy. That's why so many players are complaining - new characters just one-shot everything which destroys any challenge in a game that was designed around being challenging. The point of Vindi was to create a challenging game that required skill to conquer rather than luck (like most "difficult" games nowadays). And players used to get punished for going Easy because Easy didn't give them all the BP needed to unlock further dungeons, which was a good thing as it forced players to work together to either do the bonus missions on Easy or just defeat Normal.

2. The economy is actually the worst it's ever been. Mobs dropping +4 equips at the beginning of the game with +6 before midgame has destroyed the economic value of trading, and all that simplifying the materials has done is make the market bot-friendly because now all recipes can be done without players having to aim for eyes, helmets, etc - which means now bots can just 1-hit bosses and basic enemies and flood the market with materials while actual equipment is nowhere to be found because players are no longer dependent on one another to get good equips. And that's in addition to the fact that no one even needs good equipment anymore since the entire game up to S3 can be solo'd nude with basic sword, meaning even IF players got +0s as drops they'd still be bulldozing all of the content, therefore making good equipment nonexistent in the market due to no demand until level 90; this also means that crafting is even MORE expensive now because players can't get any return for making any items except the final ones possible, making all pre-90 crafted items junk and therefore making it hell for players to invest in crafting, which restricts crafting to an elite few that are dominating the only part of the market that matters - the lvl 90s.

3. aka THERE'S NO ECONOMY

4. It claimed to fix typos. It didn't, and even created some. It claimed to streamline the story - it didn't, outside of Story Progression, which is a gimmick aimed at beating the game within a day, which is bad in a game where the whole point was to be challenging. And it also took out stories that literally took no time to do and there was no reason to get rid of them since they had plot and character development. The DIFFICULTY is what made the game good, the DIFFICULTY that forced players to work in PARTIES which created a COMMUNITY that had a good MARKET because mobs didn't drop Infinity +10 equips, the DIFFICULTY which was found in XE that got replaced so Nexon could go back to the P2W Pre that is even MORE P2W now than it was in Pre!

And Rise DID NOT rebuild the game's core - that would suggest it rebuilt the engine, changed from the dungeon structure to Open World, fixed the P2W stat focus, decreased the number of channels, gave actual character models to NPCs, delimited the profession system, made the characters classless, allowed players to enter values for things like hues and party cap, or anything else that actually changed how the game functioned; instead, they KEPT the core but NERFED the details, cut out important or meaningful parts of the story, made side quests and bonus missions irrelevant, ruined the title system, ruined the market, destroyed any reason for party-play before endgame (turning it from an MMO to a singeplayer game), added new max enhancement levels that are even more P2W than the previous, and this was all after even the entire Korean playerbase told them not to implement Rise after they tested it.

5. This is both completely false and offensive. If the Rise update helped the game grow at all, new players would be staying instead of leaving because either it's too boring or they hate the difficulty gap at endgame that simply stops them from thinking the endgame is boring because it is. Toxicity is not making the game die; the game's been on a long death spiral because the devs rarely create new content and instead focus on making game-killing edits like Rise, in addition to Nexon's marketing teams not doing their job and properly advertising the game in any region. There is no excuse for Vindi and Mabi not getting a lot of innovative content like the devs used to make when they aren't even making a new game (which they should, because it's past time - Vindi was made 6 years after Mabi, and now Vindi is about 7 years old without any notion of Arena being brought back or replaced); players in all regions have offered DevCat constructive criticism, not worthless vitriol, and DevCat's current director has literally just ignored all of it because he wants to get his own way and doesn't care at all about the playerbase. And many, MANY of the players that are doing this have quit the game because of his reign but keep coming back to see if the game they love will ever get better, only to be disappointed and leave again.

6. False. Bosses used to be difficult BECAUSE of large party numbers. Bosses increased in difficulty stat-wise massively per each number of players in the party. That's now been removed and all bosses have been nerfed stat-wise so that players kill bosses too fast to ever be forced to use any amount of skill, so they never even see boss patterns.

7. This is complete and total BS. The game starts at the introduction. Every single part of its story is relevant, and every single battle (before Rise) tested the player's skill and wit. Players dealt with bridges and traps from Chapter 1. They did raids starting with Chapter 1 (or 2). They traded equipment and built a market that worked at every level for everyone. Every player was relevant - the casual, the crafter, the raider, the grouper, the challenger, the achiever, and even the socialite. Now the game is a straight less-than-24-hour 1HKO fest to raids that hold nothing other than drops that used to be optional before the stupid 80% damage mechanic gave favor to whales that still don't need skill because they're whales in a stat-heavy game where the AI has been nerfed to not require anyone to use skill and lets everyone facetank even more than during Pre. Before Rise, it took days to get used to the game and weeks to complete it, not months, which is far better than Mabi which is still focused on level 1000+ players. And even Hero mode is irrelevant because the whole point was to provide a difficulty higher than Hard at any level (above 60 or whatever, now changed to endgame where it's useless, instead of given to all levels which the playerbase wanted).

8. They're not going to be because the new DevCat director doesn't listen to anyone other than himself and is going to drive the game to its complete and totally irreversible death. We need the original leaders back.



I appreciate you showing the OP that there is that 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the world's Vindi playerbase that thinks that anything other than streamlining crafting (minus the removal of skill-based unique drops) is good, but don't mislead them with claims that go against the actual data collected about Rise Vindi.

Weiss_Oswald wrote: »

I guess it's supposed to help new players be able to progress through the game casualy.

This isn't casual. Casual would suggest a smooth gameplay experience that takes about weeks or months to finish. This is infantilization - casuals getting to endgame in 1 to 3 days with endgame itself being a ridiculously massive gap compared to all prior content. This is a baby game that trainwrecks into a whalefest. It's a stiff; bereft of life, it rests in peace. Its metabolic processes are now history; it's off the twig, kicked the bucket, shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain, and joined the bleeding choir invisible! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!