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Cost benefit ratio still too low, which is why pretty much nobody does this. Most people will pick the optimal choice in any situation...the fact that most people don't drink pots outside of nif/neam means it's not optimal to drink pots.
I wasn't suggesting that players should pot after every hit, that was an example used to compare hp restored via one pot at the level where one pot would be able to negate one hit from the boss (roughly).
Whether you consider it sloppy or not, the fact is that outside of perma death raids, pretty much everyone would rather die for a free heal than drink pots. Feel free to convince players ingame that it is sloppy, I can all but guarantee that you will be ignored.
It's actually faster to get ressed for what is roughly a 50% hp heal (don't remember the exact numbers off hand) rather than drink multiple pots, each of which must be timed when the boss is "busy" and not focused on you. Even if we are comparing 1 feather to 1 pot, the only time the party would lose DPS is if the person being ressed does lower DPS than the person using the feather.
It varies a lot per party obviously, but the system encourages revives more than drinking pots outside of nif/neam. If the rest of the party is content with not ressing anyone, well that's their issue really, they are the ones who have to fight the boss for longer. In my experience, its usually not a problem to get ressed within a few seconds.
The majority of the playerbase obviously doesn't agree with you on this point, or drinking pots outside of nif/neam would be the norm (which it is not).
Next time you do raids, ask the people in your party why they aren't drinking pots and are dying.
I was trying to illustrate that the majority's views are very different from yours. The majority doesn't believe in drinking pots outside of nif/neam and will react very badly to any attempt by a party member trying to get them to do so.
The point I was trying to make was that most players don't believe it's the optimal choice to drink pots outside of perma death raids, and removing the animation would have helped to change that.
You could make potions heal more, but most people still would not drink pots outside of perma death raids simply because getting ressed = free heal. As long as most players do not believe that it is in their best interest to drink pots outside of perma death raids, they will not do so. You can either lower the bar to drink pots (make it easier, such as removing the animation) and/or make it necessary to drink pots (introduce perma death to all raids, remove the free heal, etc), but the latter is likely to result in massive backlash as most players will not be able to adapt. Derpcat simply went with the easiest option available, which was to make things easier for everyone. But because they wanted to mitigate backlash from +20 and other dumb stuff, they backpedaled on this and in the end, we get nothing that fixes the issue because derpcat won't spend substantial time/money on revamping pots.
Unfortunately, the game population has shifted so that the average player is willing to do a lot less than the initial "hardcore" playerbase. Making the game easier is probably necessary to try and get new players to stay. I remember back when roch/drags was end game, people actually put in effort to figure out how to do roch breaks. Even when s2 was out, people put in effort to figure out how to do things like bark/kraken efficiently. But now, most new players struggle with something like panth even if they have level 90 gear and they won't touch practice mode with a ten foot long pole.. It's a whole different player base now. I've pretty much given up on trying to get new players to end game because the vast majority will simply give up because the game is "too hard".
xHariNezumi wrote: »I think the greater problem with the update is the deleted animation for consumable items, enhanced armor giving additional damage, "swagger resistance", and S1, S2 Raids becoming 4 man normal run. Also, me not getting +15 for 7 years
Most of the other changes are very good, though some are kind of eh. Like the removal of the potion/repair animations. Just why? At least you had to think about when and where you're gonna stand around to repair/heal, I guess they want the game to be more brain dead?
The potion thing I can't really get used to but I'll want until future content gets released further before I judge that change.
I agree with you on your enhancement complaints, but I don't like the way potions/consumables are being dealt with at all. I liked the fact that if you decided to drink/repair you had to take a risk for it. It made the game at least somewhat more challenging in that you should learn a boss before you decided for certain that you were safe to use a consumable. Now everything is a merc potion...
Necrochild wrote: »Honestly, even with +15s having a 10% edge on a +10 it still feels like a crutch using them. Having a 100% edge is way overboard (lets just focus on stuff that's already out there and not even get into the cancer of even higher enhancements). Combine that instapots, instarepairs and built in flinch resistance.... I just don't see the fun.
To tell the truth, the update comes with so many good things that we already saw in the clip. But It has some problems too.
What are bad here:
1. Removing the animation for drinking potions and repairing. I say its a step backward for an action game. Drink while running takes penalty. Stand and drink right way for the bonus effect. Same as repairing. The game already has its own way to deal with situations. It makes players watch their backs and think what they can do in a battle not a mindless one. And its so right for a battle like Neamhain
What We expect or what it should be:
1. Keep the animation for drinking and repairing.
1. I agree, keep the animations. The most they should do is shorten the animation for repair kits.
It's just 3 stuff that makes it so bad: Additional DMG, Swagger Resistance, Removed Animation.
But honestly, this is not what the players wanted.
No need to redesign pots or boss AI. No need to remove animations.
misakamisaka wrote: »I'm glad that the hp pot changes aren't happening, there's already so much babying as is.
"MarronGlaces wrote: »Like Cloakshire, I also do have an HP threshold for when I will start using pots and am very against the removal of pot animation.
You misunderstand. Yes, of course you can find gaps to use repair kits/drink pots. But the cost:benefit ratio is not favourable. You are still rendering yourself vulnerable for several key seconds and the boss AI is programmed to prioritize players using those items. Even in the best case scenario, its not unusual to see the boss finish an attack then charge across the map to go after you.
People only drink pots in Nifleheim/Neam (Not counting s2 maps, etc) due to perma death. This is largely because you get a portion of HP back when you are ressed + most pots heal too little compared to the damage bosses do. The people who need to drink pots/repair armor the most often are the players with the least experience and weakest gear (assuming a normal raid). But there is no point in these players guzzling superior HP pots in a s2 or s3 raid if it takes 2-3 pots to heal one attack's worth of HP. That's why most players just use the "free" heal from being ressed and not bother with pots. No point repairing armor if the next boss attack is going to break another piece of armor.
For the players whom drinking pots/repairing armor may make a sufficient difference to matter...they are also the ones who are going to be dodging most of the time so they won't need to anyway. For example lets say you have 13k+ DEF (which requires really good s3 gear, not counting temp buffs or def stacking) and s3 raid bosses hit you for less than 1k damage. Yea, you can drink a potion after every hit to negate the damage you just took, but even if you don't, you probably won't die anyway, so why bother? At that point, the DPS loss from stopping to drink pots/repair armor is far more important than worrying about dying.
Unless there's perma death, you wont get players drinking pots regularly in a raid just because its easier to get ressed which is a free heal. It's not like there is a shortage of feathers unless you are soloing or two manning raids anyway.
Without the animation, there would actually be a reason for players to drink pots even without perma death, simply because it doesnt reduce your DPS and won't get you killed. It was probably the easiest solution to the problem without spending hours re-designing pots and boss AI.
Even in Nifleheim, it is VERY common to see players refusing to drink pots and dying several times. You can scream "git gud" at players all you want, but the potion system is just flawed and actively discourages people from drinking pots.
Hell, next time you do s3 raids, try telling your party to drink potions/use repair kits. Make it clear you are not joking. Most parties (especially if its a random party) will respond by either ignoring or laughing at you. That reaction should tell you all you need to know.
Theres definately plenty of "better" ways to revamp the potion system other than removing the animation, but derpcat only gets creative when they are trying to sell more runes. So we just get no potion revamp instead.
