Question2

The best part is when they do get a +15, use it for a week then quit because "the game is too easy now im going to go play bdo".

FunnyGuy112 wrote: »

Rena_Ryugu wrote: »

FunnyGuy112 wrote: »

Pretty sad that a game with actual better combat is doing so much worse than a badly designed combat system like BDO.

idk why you all say is badly designed, you ever played whit end game armor and awakening? honestly I would never change Witch awakening combat system with the evie one..evie feels slow, even whit 80 atk spd, I can not move sideways, I can not jump, i can not move backwards, etc Witch has like 10x the sklls i have on my evie and i can switch betwen 2 weapon during the battle /do combo between them,etc i have 8 keys setted on my keyboard /mouse /12 quick slots lol

At least Evie has to time dodges even tho it's one of the easier classes. Wizard/Witch kills people in .5 seconds in PvP (Where the skill floor/cap should matter) and can literally escape people.

https://clips.twitch.tv/twirow/SleepyLyrebirdKAPOW

Like don't get me wrong, every class can 100-0 in BDO. Thing is, Vindictus has "some" build variety, actual sustain damage, and you have to time evades. But in BDO if you don't build AP and play for the burst you put yourself at a disadvantage because "any other type of build" will just slow your farm. You get away by doing bad habits because literally most of your skills have iframes and super armor. And because there is so much DESYNC, iframes and super armor? The only viable build and playstyle in BDO is AP and kill the guy in 1 CC and within 10 SECONDS and this goes the same for ALL CLASSES no matter which class you pick in BDO.

In Vindictus, if I wanted to play a memorization + endurance game where I need to know which smash comes next after the first [space > right click] and the next ones, I'll play Hurk. If I want to test my reaction time to the fullest, I'll play Spear Lann. BDO has NO VARIETY in terms of COMBAT. And there is almost no counter argument to that. The Farmville Part (where the variety is "how you make money") is the only thing BDO has going for it and that got boring.

There is no sustain damage meta in PvP where people die within a reasonable amount of time at a minimum of 30 seconds and maximum 5 minutes.

And World Bosses compared to Vindictus bosses? They're braindead easy, no joke. My 100 AP 100 DP Valkyrie could probably do Kutum and never die for if I was half awake, for example and that's with absolute trash gear.

You can say that BDO is a PvP game and Vindictus is a PvE game, and are two different games, sure. But it doesn't change how "bad play" is most of the time never punished in BDO and that PvP is almost a socialist environment where even the "worst type of player" can succeed due to how BDO is a medium skill-floor low skill ceiling game. You play bad in Vindictus, bosses destroy you.

The thing is, BDO has figured out that easier game = more players = more money. This mainly applies to MMOs.

Think of all the people who quit vindi because "leveling is too hard" "bosses are too hard" "dodging is too hard". What do they want to play? Games like BDO. Where do they spend their money? Same.

Players in MMOs always grativate towards the easiest option. Want to get gems? Zecallion. Succubus queen/Blood lord reborn? "Too hard" "Ceebs".

Event shop ancient tokens? 2x roch raids. People with +15s were refusing to touch s3 or s2 raids. Why? Roch is easier. "Ceebs". Etc.

Vindi too hard? Easier for them to download and play another game like BDO rather than get better.

I am tired of talking to newbies who get to level 6 then quit beacuse leveling is "too hard". I grew up playing games like ragnarok online that were rage inducing at how slow leveling is, and seeing modern MMO players complain about leveling in vindi makes me feel old and think they are spoilt.

If you look at hard games like dark souls, they are popular because they are single player games. If they were MMOs, they would be like vindi : ghost towns. Why? "too hard" "ceebs" "bdo is better".

I'm asking the management to actually play the game and take a look at what the walls and constraints are for players enjoying the game.

The management or even most of the GMs dont even play the game. Thats why whenever you try to report bugs, they dont get fixed or you just get confused "We cant replicate this bug" replies for bugs that literally every player in the game can replicate. Thats assuming you get a response at all, the bug report forum is full of dead threads with no official response for a reason. I reported typos more than a year ago that havent been fixed, and thats something that NA Is clearly capable of doing without KR support, so no excuse really.

KenshinX wrote: »

It's not hard at all to get 18k. You must be playing the game wrong.

There's also the option of joining a guild you know.

Joining a guild is not a great solution. Its the typical solution people suggest for MMOs, but in reality, the guild has very little to gain and everything to lose by helping a newbie gear up.

When a new player joins a guild and gets help with quests, gear, etc, it is expected that the new player will in turn help out the rest of the guild when he gets strong enough to do so. This arrangement falls apart when most new players realise that they can get free help to reach end game and then refuse to help people in return. Or simply get bored and quit.

Imagine spending what could be months helping a casual player to gear up and level from level 1, get full enchants, a +10 weapon, teach him all the tricks to make gold, farm mats, how to do raids, etc. Carrying him in end game content even though he does no damage because he is undergeared and you could have gotten someone else with approrpiate gear instead. Then he jumps ship to another guild because they offered him free stuff, "my friends are making a guild" or "Im bored now k thxs bai". Congrats, you just wasted months of work helping someone to reach endgame only for him to not even want to do endgame because he wants to play BDO now or something.

Why would any sane guild do this? I mean sure, if hes your best bud IRL or something, but some random newbie who just applies to your guild? No sane guild should be doing this because it will burn people out.

I spent months carrying someone with 17-18k ATT in s3 content because he was part of my guild, not to mention helping him learn the game, do s2 content, etc. He made a +15, then refused to do any end game content because he had a +15 now. When the scroll shop event was on he would rather solo roch raids for coins rather than invite other guild members to go because "its faster if i solo" (with his +15). That's what happens when a guild helps people reach endgame.

NotRain wrote: »

The QB requirements are there to warn new players that they cant do the battle with low att. At 18k you don't even need equips just a wep and for those that dont reach 18k, just buy a full blue set for 200k and you'll be at 18k att. Also no reason to remove the att min requirements because it does not affect anyone. If you think your skill is amazing and you can do dmg to Regina then setup a party of 8 people with <18k att and tell me how it goes because it will help you understand why the game offers requirements.

When regina first came out most people were at 18-19k att, it would take 20+ min and a bucket of GGs to get through the battle... fun

No, not really. The QB requirements are there to prevent you from filling up the boat with naked afk alts to get the +1 core bonus from a full party. Sure you can still get afk alts in, but they actually need gear to reach the QB requirement which makes it harder/less attractive.

If it was meant to warn new players that the boss had high stats they would have put warnings everywhere instead of just the QB menu.

2edgy4u wrote: »

purple weapons are so cheap on the mp. enhance it to +8 (or +5 if youre poor). if that still doesnt get you there, wait for someone to use soap or use a kitty potion.

Yea, a fresh level 80 with almost no money is going to buy a purple weapon (which is worthless because upgrading to orange resets the enhancement rank) and spend a fortune on paradise stones/elixirs trying to +8 it without runes. Have you ever talked to any new level 80s before? Because most of them wont do that, they will simply quit unless they get carried by friends/their guild/etc.

I know a level 90 kai who spent weeks farming muir on multiple characters (most of whom were undergeared) and upgrading empos to paradise stones just so he could +10 a OJ crossgun. People like that are extremely rare...most new players will not like the game enough to spend weeks farming to make a level 90 OJ weapon.

This is, hands down, the most common conversations I have had with new players about end game weapons (not +15s or anything, just +10 basic ones) as they got closer to level cap (this started happening when s2 was introduced by the way, which caused a massive exodus of players) :

When s2 was endgame and level 80 mats werent in the seal shop :

Newbie : Hey im getting closer to level cap, how should I get a level 80 weapon?

Me : You pretty much cant, the drop rate is insanely rare and people have been doing daily raids for more than 3 months without being able to get a single rare.

Newbie : Wow thats fucked up. *tries another MMORPG* Oh hey this other MMO is so much easier! I'm going to play this instead. Bye guys!

When level 80 mats were just introduced to the seal shop :

Newbie : Hey im getting closer to level cap, how should I get a level 80 weapon?

Me : Farm [insert very large amount of seals here] and buy the mats from the seal shop.

Newbie : Wow...that's going to take forever. How do I get seals?

Me : People usually get them from s1 raids like Roch/Colhen raids and solo stuff like Succubus.

Newbie : *does s1 raids for a week or two* This is taking too long, i'm getting bored now. *tries another MMORPG* Oh hey this other MMO is so much easier! I'm going to play this instead. Bye guys!

When s3 mats were in the sealshop in shitty over priced RNG boxes that would usually give you a bound armor feather instead of the weapon feather :

Newbie : Hey, I just finished the s2 story, how do I get geared up for s3?

Me : Well people usually make a +10 level 80 weapon first to do s3 raids since a level 90 oj weapon feather is really rare and it will take a long time to get it....

Newbie : But i don't want to spend money on runes...*tries another MMORPG* Oh hey this other MMO is so much easier! I'm going to play this instead. Bye guys!

OR

Newbie : *makes a +10 level 80 weapon* Man, I've been doing s3 raids for more than a month without getting anything good and I do so little damage...*tries another MMORPG* Oh hey this other MMO is so much easier! I'm going to play this instead. Bye guys!

When the seal shop was FINALLY revamped so it "only" costs 350 seals to make a level 90 oj weapon :

Newbie : Hey, I just finished the s2 story, how do I get geared up for s3?

Me : People usually save up 350 seals to make a level 90 oj weapon from the seal shop, you can do s1 and solo raids to get seals. Abyssal arena also gives lots of seals but is only open two days of the week.

Newbie : Wow thats going to take a long time...*tries getting seals for a while* yeaaaa this is taking too long ceebs *tries another MMORPG* Oh hey this other MMO is so much easier! I'm going to play this instead. Bye guys!

Pretty much every veteran who has tried to get newbies geared up for end game content has similar stories to tell.

I know a level 89 who can't even start the s3 story because s3 bosses are balanced for people with attack capped stats, and he only has the free level 80 gear. He only got that high because I have been inviting him to 60-69 Abyssal arena runs as much as I can. Im amazed he hasnt officially quit yet. He literally only logins to get the free gifts, do some easy solo raids (shakkar, etc) occasionally and arena runs when I invite him. He wont try asking people to do s1 raids because its easier to simply log off and play another game instead. This is what most new players will do. You could put a bunch of new players in a room together and 9 times out of 10 they will all start playing something else instead of trying to form a party, because the latter requires you to put in the effort to talk to people.

Infact, I literally saw this happen recently. Two weeks ago, there were a bunch of people online who I knew wanted seals to make a level 90 weapon. So I suggested they form a party to do roch raids during the +2 raids event. I even gave them a list of names to talk to. 10 minutes later two guys were just standing around asking each other "What's happening?", one guy stopped responding and went off to do random solos and three other guys were just sitting around doing nothing. After telling them they should talk to each other and figure out who can host, 10 minutes later there was still no progress and they were still standing around asking each other if anything was happening. One guy finally made a boat and a few of them joined, but they only did a few roch raids before people started logging off to play another game.

How many of those newbies do you think will end up with 350 seals to make a level 90 oj weapon before they jump ship to another game? You don't need a crystal ball to predict this.

Ikarsu wrote: »

Quick battle in a nutshell.

Anyway to the topic, if you're trying to board of a quick battle, YES, it does have an attack requirement. Regular battles are usually dependent on the host and sometimes you run into one of those guys that go all wild over the attack stat (when it's capped at 23,000 for s3 runs, 18,000 on s2, and freaking 14,000 on s1).

Uh, the attack caps in s2 are 21k and roughly 19k for s1 (drags).

s1 attack cap was largely irrelevant, since most people had 12-14k attack back when s1 was end game (with +10 level 60 weapons, mael being insanely rare and some characters having low ATT weapons like twin swords, etc). The bosses were balanced for parties of average stats (and characters were weaker back then). Drags took maybe 15 mins to kill with an average party. Roch was maybe 10 mins or so IIRC.

s2 ruined this by making everything have insanely high DEF and have massively inflated HP pools. Even a party of attack capped players in s2 can take 10 mins or more to kill bosses like Ulchas. s2 and beyond are obviously balanced for parties of attack capped or near attack capped players. The only s2 bosses that are fast with a party of attack capped players are stuff like panth, kraken, havan, iset, jugg (if you dont fail the bombing phase). Havan being fast only if the party can interrupt the one hit kill and iset being fast only if you can chain disables.

Nowhere is this more obvious than s3 bosses, they average 10 mins to kill with half the party being attack capped (by attack cap I do not mean top DPS characters with +15s obviously) and the others having average stats of 19-21k (min : event gear). The stat requirements of s3 raids are so silly that players with the +9 level 80 gear will almost never break 10% damage (unless the rest of the party is very, very bad) even if they play very well. And that is insanely good gear for level 80s. Your average new player will have +0 gear, no scrolls and spend most of the raid dead.

This is basically flawed progression. Devcat's train of thought is that a level 80 will gladly spend runes to +10 and enchant his level 80 gear before tackling s3. This is wrong. Most level 80 newbies will run into the progression wall and jump straight over to other games like BDO.

If there's a situation where you need better gear, there are dungeons that can be farmed easily and produce gold where said gold can be used to buy better weapons.

9 out of 10 new players won't do that. Why? People almost always take the easiest route. Most people would rather log off and play an easier game than farm something mind numbingly boring to make gold. Ask any veteran who has tried giving advice to new players before. It usually goes like this :

Newbie : Man, I have no gold, what's a good way to make gold?

Veteran : You should try farming enchancement elixirs to sell, you can also sell high level enhancement stones, ore, powders, etc.

Newbie : Too boring/takes too long/too hard. I'm going to play an easier game instead.

OR

Newbie : *stops responding* *logs off to play another game*

I have seen dozens of newbies do exactly this. Hell, most veterans do this too. They complain they have no gold/mats/whatever, but they refuse to do dungeons to get anything because "ceebs", "too lazy", "too hard", "I would rather play another game instead", etc. I know multiple people with very good gear (+13s or higher) that quit because "I have no gold" or "Mats are too hard to get" but they refuse to run anything at all because "ceebs" or "too hard".

A month ago, I was talking to a Kai with a +14 or+15 (cant remember which) and he said he quit because it was too hard to make gold. I asked him why he didnt run s3 dailies to sell the drops and he said it was too hard. He now plays BDO and wont come back, he wont even login to get the free weekend gifts. This is pretty much the typical MMO player these days.

In the last one year I have only seen one newbie actually put in the effort to farm elixirs, etc to sell to make gold compared to the dozens who chose to play other games instead. He was able to make a lot of gold doing this and gear himself up easily with fully enchanted gear, etc. Therefore, its not impossible to make gold via farming as a newbie, but most newbies simply wont do it. He even got lucky and got a +15 coupon from an event. Unfortunately, right after he got the +15 coupon, he started refusing to do any end game content (s3, nif, etc) because "I already have everything I want from this battle". Complete waste of a +15. He quit permanently because he doesn't want to get level 95 gear after Dullhan has released because "I worked so hard to get my gear and it will be obsolete once Dullahan is out" and now plays BDO.