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Some Feedback/comparison on Battle voices.

Comments

  • TwlnTwln
    Vindictus Rep: 1,015
    Posts: 67
    Member
    Kurs wrote: »

    This part was meant as a "what if" to say if Nexon did listen the decisions they make may still be the same for the reason given. You seem to have taken it as something else from your response.


    Oh ok mb. I misunderstood you a bit.

    Your "who should they listen to? " stance is operating under the impression people couldn't completely agree , correct? That's technically true. However - absolute agreement isn't always possible. Does that mean Nexon shouldn't change? No - actually. The majority should be favored. In the scenario a majority isn't created, a longer discussion must be had. Therefore Nexon can't be blamed this time.


    Side opinions should be handled case by case . As there is no blanket situation for the unknown future.



    Example:
    Many people don't like the voices. They want a revert. So the majority should get a revert. However side opinions for the voice has the option to keep it. Nexon knows which direction to follow.

    Case closed.







    Kurs wrote: »
    For your response to this, details matter to me, and everything I said had importance, at least for me. So this might be a matter of differences on the type of people we are, so I might not know how to properly condense what I say. I'm also trying to be very very very very very very nice and reasonable, so that might add to the wordyness, people aren't always easy to talk to and I get tempted to say things other ways, so attempting to speak that way might help me try to stay nice too.



    I learned that waking away is better to stay leveled headed and trying again the next day or not bothering with internet drama.

    Condensing comes with practice. Anywho , without that balance, post become a eyesore to deal with. Up to you though. Don't be too surprised if people don't want to invest.

    Kurs wrote: »
    So for this, I'll rephrase what my original intent was. I hope that none of you say things like "Pfffft Nexon never listens to us they only care about money" when in fact Nexon did listen. Even if they don't do what you personally want, at least they listened and considered.

    I will consider Nexon listening when crucial issues are meant with official acknowledgement and official plans of action to address said issue. Can you agree that's better communication or not?

    Showing a lack of communication with the combination of lootbox features does play to that narrative though. Yes.
  • FranBunnyFFXIIFranBunnyFFXII
    Vindictus Rep: 1,700
    Posts: 56
    Member
    "Who should they listen too?"
    I dunno, maybe the 90%+ of the player base who doesn't like this change.

    This isnt a small thing where like 10% of the player base doesnt like it.
    It's pretty close that a grand standing majority of the player base thus far is not ok with this, and it's forced some people who want to keep on playing to play with their entire game muted.
    Perhapse they should listen to the 90% of people who DO NOT like this change.
    Seems like a good idea to listen to a huge majority.
    TwlnWorldOrigin
  • KursKurs
    Vindictus Rep: 2,220
    Posts: 201
    Member
    edited December 11, 2019
    So let me say why I'm wary of when the "majority" or "90%" argument is used. Not everyone uses the forums, not everyone looks at them. And people who get the same information may be inclined to have the same opinion because they don't get the other sides view, hence that's the reason your friends may usually have the same opinion as you, when the other sides argument is valid, reasonable and smart if listened to. It can end up being something akin to the blind leading the blind. And I believe there are plenty of other reasons why people won't speak up and why the "majority" argument has its flaws. Especially if I don't know the process of how you got this "majority" from. Which I'm assuming is just from your friends or the people on the forums.

    In the end though the theme of what I'm saying is respect and understanding. Many people who've worked in customer service and with other people have had to deal with those people who are just jerks and who they end up thinking "what an idiot stop screaming at me". So I hope more people will realize when they're becoming these types of people and have a little more respect and understanding towards effort, hard work, and the other side of the same coins view.
    Twln wrote: »

    Oh ok mb. I misunderstood you a bit.

    Your "who should they listen to? " stance is operating under the impression people couldn't completely agree , correct? That's technically true. However - absolute agreement isn't always possible. Does that mean Nexon shouldn't change? No - actually. The majority should be favored. In the scenario a majority isn't created, a longer discussion must be had. Therefore Nexon can't be blamed this time.


    Side opinions should be handled case by case . As there is no blanket situation for the unknown future.



    Example:
    Many people don't like the voices. They want a revert. So the majority should get a revert. However side opinions for the voice has the option to keep it. Nexon knows which direction to follow.

    Case closed.

    So for this, when I make this case I'm thinking of during the development phase of features. In this case it would be the voices and mercenary lounge as a whole. Where I'm thinking it's tough to know what people will like and won't like because in the end "you never know until you try". And again how do you know what the "majority" is. If we stuck to what seems to be Sixths, and Frans "majority", we'd most likely get what the vocal forumers like, which is not necessarily the best and what the actual majority likes. So in the end game developers just go with their gut feelings and hope for the best like HIdeo Kojimas new game. Some people think it's super awesome and others think it's crap.
    Twln wrote: »

    I will consider Nexon listening when crucial issues are meant with official acknowledgement and official plans of action to address said issue. Can you agree that's better communication or not?

    Showing a lack of communication with the combination of lootbox features does play to that narrative though. Yes.

    So for this, yes communication between developer and players would be great. But respect both ways would make that much easier wouldn't you think? So I hope the players will be less toxic as well and not just hate Nexon based on the past no matter what they do. So when people make criticism, it should actually be valuable criticism and not just hate just because the features didn't end up exactly what you personally wanted. Or at the very least make it something they can actually use. I still don't see how Eira sounds like a man, she just sounds more mature to me.
  • TwlnTwln
    Vindictus Rep: 1,015
    Posts: 67
    Member
    Kurs wrote: »
    So let me say why I'm wary of when the "majority" or "90%" argument is used. Not everyone uses the forums, not everyone looks at them.

    Kurs wrote: »
    And I believe there are plenty of other reasons why people won't speak up and why the "majority" argument has its flaws. Especially if I don't know the process of how you got this "majority" from. Which I'm assuming is just from your friends or the people on the forums.


    Exactly what I expected. You attempted to discredit the majority idea. Sadly for you - that doesn't nullify my point. I will use your own words to show why :


    Kurs wrote: »
    So for this, yes communication between developer and players would be great.

    That's the entire point why not everyone uses or sees forums like you said. Because developer to player communication isn't great.

    Can you agree if developers took forum feedback more seriously, more people would visit forums and have elaborate discussions, if it meant 100% change? Also your unspoken argument inst relevant. Why? its easier to assume they don't care. Because if Nexon announced they were taking opinions, yet they refuse to take part, they nullify their vote due to not participating. Maybe if they have a problem, discuss it. Or will you argue next the unspoken are passionate enough to care about a change, yet not fight for it? Because I will say if so. That will not make sense nor is that excuse enough to dismiss the majority as said before on the official forums .

    Like Youtube infringement with Coppa and the FTC involvement , if important matters are needed to be discussed. People will discuss attempts for change on the FTC website. Or have you not seen multiple YouTube influencers telling them to take this seriously?

    Also I have no acquaintances or friends that plays Vindictus. No . But if I see many people upset with the change. Obviously not many people favor it. There is literally nothing else to be said here. Btw - you forgot discord besides forums.






    Kurs wrote: »
    And people who get the same information may be inclined to have the same opinion because they don't get the other sides view, hence that's the reason your friends may usually have the same opinion as you, when the other sides argument is valid, reasonable and smart if listened to.






    That's the point of having a discussion and using facts to see the best direction. I also see what you're alluding to.

    If what you're saying is valid, reasonable and smart, then you should have no problems with the majority agreeing with you. Instead of attempting to cast doubt for whatever reason on why the majority shouldn't be listened to and ultimately unintentionally or intentionally defend Nexon ways , how about you make a clear stance with reasonable sized text then prove it.




    As another poster said. They just want to see change. Not read extra large essays with unnecessary text. Keep it simple. Get to the point. People agree or dont. Not everyone will agree. But that sure will never stop me from expressing my opinion.











    Kurs wrote: »
    It can end up being something akin to the blind leading the blind.


    Lets ignore for a moment ...You're now operating under the impression the community isn't coherent enough to discuss opinions or look at different views.


    I have another question for you now. What makes you think Nexon, or any companies way will always be competent or changes aren't done in malice / pure greed? Are you unaware sometimes a developer kills their own game, or are you ignoring that ?

    Rather take my chances with people who can be wrong sometimes over someone who lost connection to what made them famous . Or theives who will rob my wallet then try shill people to say thank you for that deal.








    Kurs wrote: »
    So for this, when I make this case I'm thinking of during the development phase of features. In this case it would be the voices and mercenary lounge as a whole. Where I'm thinking it's tough to know what people will like and won't like because in the end "you never know until you try".

    People have tried the new ones . Keep in mind your taking about players with possibly years of familiarity to the old voices. A lot of feedback of not liking the voices has been shared more than praises. The ''you never know till you try'' isnt valid. Its already been tried. Next is the fixing phase.

    Option to revert. Get the old voice actors to cast new lines if needed. Or similar sounding voice actors. Please stop dragging out this conversation in this direction.






    Kurs wrote: »
    And again how do you know what the "majority" is. If we stuck to what seems to be Sixths, and Frans "majority", we'd most likely get what the vocal forumers like, which is not necessarily the best and what the actual majority likes. So in the end game developers just go with their gut feelings and hope for the best like HIdeo Kojimas new game. Some people think it's super awesome and others think it's crap.





    Oh Ok . We're bring outside references. Let me ask you this then to your response:


    Kurs wrote: »
    In the end though the theme of what I'm saying is respect and understanding. Many people who've worked in customer service and with other people have had to deal with those people who are just jerks and who they end up thinking "what an idiot stop screaming at me". So I hope more people will realize when they're becoming these types of people and have a little more respect and understanding towards effort, hard work, and the other side of the same coins view.


    Sorry. No matter who you are, king ,queen or peasant. You can be judged and your mistakes can be corrected. Working hard in the right direction is better than working hard in the wrong direction.



    Kurs wrote: »
    So for this, yes communication between developer and players would be great. But respect both ways would make that much easier wouldn't you think? So I hope the players will be less toxic as well and not just hate Nexon based on the past no matter what they do. So when people make criticism, it should actually be valuable criticism and not just hate just because the features didn't end up exactly what you personally wanted. Or at the very least make it something they can actually use.



    Which company is more loved and respected, Nexon, EA or CD Project RED? Answer simply please . Then ask yourself why Nexon isnt like the most favored among this list

    Another example. Old Bioware and Bethesda vs new Bioware and Bethesda. The difference is the community reaction to these companies drastically change when they turned bad. Sounds familiar Nexon?


    Yes. Some players are toxic. But like a developer said. Not all of them are. Some are just extremely passionate about the game and voice their concerns of the direction things are going. Nexon has a history of poor communication. So when largely disliked ideas spawn. Players know its bad and therefore know Nexon wont listen . Like normal. Can they really be blamed if this is the normal?


    Kurs wrote: »
    I still don't see how Eira sounds like a man, she just sounds more mature to me.

    Not relevant. To another user she will. to me she does. Which is ashame because shes cute ( not Arisha cute but. Anyways , as I said many times before, that's why there should be options and leave it there. No more give it a chance speak.No more people are being haters. You like it or dont. That's why options should be had . Please stop dragging on this forced debate. Its pretty pointless and only consumes my programming time.









  • KursKurs
    Vindictus Rep: 2,220
    Posts: 201
    Member
    edited December 11, 2019
    Okay so, here's what I'm seeing. You're kind of looking at things in general, which would be an entirely different discussion. And I almost fell for that trap again which I'm sure you didn't intend.

    Remember, my focus is on creative aspects and features, such as voice and the mercenary lounge. And giving credit where credit is due, and being against people who just hate and say things are horrible just because it doesn't fit their idea of what should be.

    If you want I can address what I think for every little part of what you said. But if not, I'll skip to this part.
    Kurs wrote: »

    And people who get the same information may be inclined to have the same opinion because they don't get the other sides view, hence that's the reason your friends may usually have the same opinion as you, when the other sides argument is valid, reasonable and smart if listened to.

    Remember, what I'm talking about is focused to creative features, such as voices and the mercenary lounge and character personality. So generally, the majority doesn't always = they're right especially towards creative subjects, not science such as building, programming and law. Haven't you ever come across situations where this was true? I have. However, considering the issue I'm focused on, do you just not agree that the personality given to characters is more important than what the audience expected? I want to say more but I'm trying to keep it small.
    Twln wrote: »
    Lets ignore for a moment ...You're now operating under the impression the community isn't coherent enough to discuss opinions or look at different views.

    I'll address this so you don't think I don't value other people and what they say. It's not that I think the community isn't coherent. But I quickly tried to find the name of the phenomenon that best fits what I was trying to express. It's called "wisdom of the crowd" and the "crowd effect", I think "crowd justice" is another one. I'm wary because of things like that. Now If you want me to answer what I think about your question there too I can, however I'm trying to keep it to the topic.
    Twln wrote: »
    People have tried the new ones . Keep in mind your taking about players with possibly years of familiarity to the old voices. A lot of feedback of not liking the voices has been shared more than praises. The ''you never know till you try'' isnt valid. Its already been tried. Next is the fixing phase.

    Option to revert. Get the old voice actors to cast new lines if needed. Or similar sounding voice actors. Please stop dragging out this conversation in this direction.

    Great, yes, that's what I wanted originally. For people to try the voices before judging them. And there you just also mentioned something I originally mentioned too and it seems like I was right. People don't like the voices because it's the one they listened to originally, and the one's they're familiar with. But that doesn't mean they should hate on the new ones or that the new ones are bad or wrong and that the voice actors suck or had the personality and grunts wrong. The storyteller sets the personality shouldn't they? And the voice helps express that personality. So should people really hate just because the personality ended up being something different?
    Twln wrote: »
    Oh Ok . We're bring outside references. Let me ask you this then to your response:

    Sooooo... I think you forgot your question there or I don't see it.
    Kurs wrote: »
    In the end though the theme of what I'm saying is respect and understanding. Many people who've worked in customer service and with other people have had to deal with those people who are just jerks and who they end up thinking "what an idiot stop screaming at me". So I hope more people will realize when they're becoming these types of people and have a little more respect and understanding towards effort, hard work, and the other side of the same coins view.

    So I think when it comes to creative subjects such as voice direction and story direction, "mistakes" such as choosing who to voice or how characters sound might not actually be "mistakes". What I wanted to express is to make sure that when you express what you want to say, make sure you're not being viewed by the other person as some crazy idiot who just had a bad day and is taking it out on you. And to make things worse you're not giving them anything they can use to understand your problem let alone a way to fix it. Or expect to fix a problem where there's not really anything they can do about it for whatever reason.
    Twln wrote: »
    Which company is more loved and respected, Nexon, EA or CD Project RED? Answer simply please . Then ask yourself why Nexon isnt like the most favored among this list

    Another example. Old Bioware and Bethesda vs new Bioware and Bethesda. The difference is the community reaction to these companies drastically change when they turned bad. Sounds familiar Nexon?


    Yes. Some players are toxic. But like a developer said. Not all of them are. Some are just extremely passionate about the game and voice their concerns of the direction things are going. Nexon has a history of poor communication. So when largely disliked ideas spawn. Players know its bad and therefore know Nexon wont listen . Like normal. Can they really be blamed if this is the normal?

    I've never heard of CD Project Red, but maybe I heard of or played one of their video games. But as for Nexon and EA and the others, they seem to be equally hated but in all the forums I've gone to there were always haters, at least when I went to them, except for my first MMO. So for this I'd have to refer to your expertise.

    And yes not all players are toxic. However do you agree that wording makes a difference and effect readers including developers emotions and how they react, and criticism with actual things they can work with has much more value than criticism that does not (often these ones sound just like complaining or worse)?
    Twln wrote: »
    Not relevant. To another user she will. to me she does. Which is ashame because shes cute ( not Arisha cute but. Anyways , as I said many times before, that's why there should be options and leave it there. No more give it a chance speak.No more people are being haters. You like it or dont. That's why options should be had . Please stop dragging on this forced debate. Its pretty pointless and only consumes my programming time.

    I mean yeah, go do your programming. Priorities.
  • Returner9Returner9
    Vindictus Rep: 725
    Posts: 39
    Member
    WhiteYukii wrote: »
    If players don't like the new voices, which results in a significant spike in player turnover and the real threat of a boycott from loyal spenders, it directly effects their projected income. Their "cash flow" has everything to do with the playerbase liking or not liking this game. P If player morale is low, players tend to spends less.....Shocker.

    "Player turnover"? "Boycott"? "Low player morale"? 20+ Neamhain comrades sold, 10,000+$ worth of gachas opened and that's in EU alone. Double that with NA's sales. 30,000$ worth of sales in a week and counting because I still see players buying NX and opening boxes.

    Dude.... Get a grip. Most people like the voices or are indifferent about them, and it shows in sales. And even if people don't like it, as long as it doesn't show in sales, it doesn't matter.
  • TwlnTwln
    Vindictus Rep: 1,015
    Posts: 67
    Member
    Kurs wrote: »
    Okay so, here's what I'm seeing. You're kind of looking at things in general, which would be an entirely different discussion. And I almost fell for that trap again which I'm sure you didn't intend.

    Remember, my focus is on creative aspects and features, such as voice and the mercenary lounge. And giving credit where credit is due, and being against people who just hate and say things are horrible just because it doesn't fit their idea of what should be.

    If you want I can address what I think for every little part of what you said. But if not, I'll skip to this part.
    Kurs wrote: »

    And people who get the same information may be inclined to have the same opinion because they don't get the other sides view, hence that's the reason your friends may usually have the same opinion as you, when the other sides argument is valid, reasonable and smart if listened to.

    Remember, what I'm talking about is focused to creative features, such as voices and the mercenary lounge and character personality. So generally, the majority doesn't always = they're right especially towards creative subjects, not science such as building, programming and law. Haven't you ever come across situations where this was true? I have. However, considering the issue I'm focused on, do you just not agree that the personality given to characters is more important than what the audience expected? I want to say more but I'm trying to keep it small.
    Twln wrote: »
    Lets ignore for a moment ...You're now operating under the impression the community isn't coherent enough to discuss opinions or look at different views.

    I'll address this so you don't think I don't value other people and what they say. It's not that I think the community isn't coherent. But I quickly tried to find the name of the phenomenon that best fits what I was trying to express. It's called "wisdom of the crowd" and the "crowd effect", I think "crowd justice" is another one. I'm wary because of things like that. Now If you want me to answer what I think about your question there too I can, however I'm trying to keep it to the topic.
    Twln wrote: »
    People have tried the new ones . Keep in mind your taking about players with possibly years of familiarity to the old voices. A lot of feedback of not liking the voices has been shared more than praises. The ''you never know till you try'' isnt valid. Its already been tried. Next is the fixing phase.

    Option to revert. Get the old voice actors to cast new lines if needed. Or similar sounding voice actors. Please stop dragging out this conversation in this direction.

    Great, yes, that's what I wanted originally. For people to try the voices before judging them. And there you just also mentioned something I originally mentioned too and it seems like I was right. People don't like the voices because it's the one they listened to originally, and the one's they're familiar with. But that doesn't mean they should hate on the new ones or that the new ones are bad or wrong and that the voice actors suck or had the personality and grunts wrong. The storyteller sets the personality shouldn't they? And the voice helps express that personality. So should people really hate just because the personality ended up being something different?
    Twln wrote: »
    Oh Ok . We're bring outside references. Let me ask you this then to your response:

    Sooooo... I think you forgot your question there or I don't see it.
    Kurs wrote: »
    In the end though the theme of what I'm saying is respect and understanding. Many people who've worked in customer service and with other people have had to deal with those people who are just jerks and who they end up thinking "what an idiot stop screaming at me". So I hope more people will realize when they're becoming these types of people and have a little more respect and understanding towards effort, hard work, and the other side of the same coins view.

    So I think when it comes to creative subjects such as voice direction and story direction, "mistakes" such as choosing who to voice or how characters sound might not actually be "mistakes". What I wanted to express is to make sure that when you express what you want to say, make sure you're not being viewed by the other person as some crazy idiot who just had a bad day and is taking it out on you. And to make things worse you're not giving them anything they can use to understand your problem let alone a way to fix it. Or expect to fix a problem where there's not really anything they can do about it for whatever reason.
    Twln wrote: »
    Which company is more loved and respected, Nexon, EA or CD Project RED? Answer simply please . Then ask yourself why Nexon isnt like the most favored among this list

    Another example. Old Bioware and Bethesda vs new Bioware and Bethesda. The difference is the community reaction to these companies drastically change when they turned bad. Sounds familiar Nexon?


    Yes. Some players are toxic. But like a developer said. Not all of them are. Some are just extremely passionate about the game and voice their concerns of the direction things are going. Nexon has a history of poor communication. So when largely disliked ideas spawn. Players know its bad and therefore know Nexon wont listen . Like normal. Can they really be blamed if this is the normal?

    I've never heard of CD Project Red, but maybe I heard of or played one of their video games. But as for Nexon and EA and the others, they seem to be equally hated but in all the forums I've gone to there were always haters, at least when I went to them, except for my first MMO. So for this I'd have to refer to your expertise.

    And yes not all players are toxic. However do you agree that wording makes a difference and effect readers including developers emotions and how they react, and criticism with actual things they can work with has much more value than criticism that does not (often these ones sound just like complaining or worse)?
    Twln wrote: »
    Not relevant. To another user she will. to me she does. Which is ashame because shes cute ( not Arisha cute but. Anyways , as I said many times before, that's why there should be options and leave it there. No more give it a chance speak.No more people are being haters. You like it or dont. That's why options should be had . Please stop dragging on this forced debate. Its pretty pointless and only consumes my programming time.

    I mean yeah, go do your programming. Priorities.

    Started hours ago. Like I said many pages ago. Leave the topic at options. You're free to debate with other members of the forum . Not wasting anymore time responding in lengthy bulk.


    Returner9 wrote: »

    Dude.... Get a grip. Most people like the voices or are indifferent about them, and it shows in sales. And even if people don't like it, as long as it doesn't show in sales, it doesn't matter.

    Sad but true. Not enough people wanna speak out and still buy.
  • CloakshireCloakshire
    Vindictus Rep: 4,460
    Posts: 646
    Member
    edited December 12, 2019
    Potential good news.

    [Voice Emotes]

    - Added 20 new Voice Emotes for each character.
    : Players can preview newly added Voice Emotes in the [Voice] tab of the [Emotes] window.
    : Players can purchase newly added Voice Emotes in the [Friendship Seal Shop].

    It looks like at the start of season 4, new voice lines are being added. This means that NA will most likely call back all the current voice actors. Hopefully instead of just doing new voice lines, they can also take another crack at redoing/tweaking some battle grunts.

    *fingers crossed*
    TwlnGhengisJohnWorldOriginBabyDani
  • GhengisJohnGhengisJohn
    Vindictus Rep: 3,200
    Posts: 252
    Member
    "Who should they listen too?"
    I dunno, maybe the 90%+ of the player base who doesn't like this change.

    This isnt a small thing where like 10% of the player base doesnt like it.
    It's pretty close that a grand standing majority of the player base thus far is not ok with this, and it's forced some people who want to keep on playing to play with their entire game muted.
    Perhapse they should listen to the 90% of people who DO NOT like this change.
    Seems like a good idea to listen to a huge majority.

    You're a gigantic baby who claimed to have run two dungeons then uninstalled the game.
    I couldnt put up with it for more than 2 dungeons before I just said "I cant do this" and logged out, wrote this post, and uninstalled the game.

    That is an extreme reaction. Given that I think it's safe to say that you're prone to exaggeration and hyperbolic, overly emotional reactions and I'd actually congratulate anybody who didn't listen to the likes of you.
    Cloakshire
  • DancingStarDancingStar
    Vindictus Rep: 1,695
    Posts: 85
    Member
    @Kurs wrote: »
    So let me ask you, what does a "native american old woman" sound like? How should Eira and Arisha sound like? What is Lynns personality, and what's an appropriate voice for that personality? Chances are every single person will have a different answer to each of those questions if they even have an answer at all.

    We're not talking about a random native american, but very specific characters each one with their own identity and personality that define them.
    Even for movies exist a figure called Dubbing director which decide which voice would fit better for that specific character.
    (And usually that voice follow the whole actor/actress carreer). Such figure are specialized in the work they do, they don't just pick up voices on their own taste
    but try to stick as much as possible to the character. I believe that such delicate job have not been done or partially done.

    You said that everyone have their own opinion about how a char should be or sound, that mean even the same ppl who worked behind this 'assumed'
    based on their own mind how those characters should be. The difference is while the players have a common idea seasoned through years of playing,
    most of the employers who does these kind of stuff have no clue about the game itself.
    Who decided for example to give such barbarian voice to Eira and all her threat lines surely don't know much about the game but maybe though:
    "Ehi, let's make her sound like edgy like the ppl online, and raw like a heavy weights lifter, most ppl surely will like".

    I mean we have (and we had) gms who can't even play the game or open a gift box in the live stream, so i don't expect that who managed this
    had much of a clue about what the game and the characters inside really are. I can tell this from the result.

    I repeat (again) that i'm pretty sure nobody is blaming the actors themselves or their skills 'in general in their job' or the efforts the put into it.
    (Don't forget tho they are actors, not players, none of them knew vindictus at all, and they got paid in any case,
    so they could care relatively how much ppl appreciated or not).

    What is wrong is who have been choosen for some specific role and how they have been told to act.
    In the specific (at least for what regards me and from what you can read around too) the females counterparts are just wrong.
    I personally appreciate the males voices, they're very fitting, and aside a few "battle clips" that need to be reworked (lann for example)
    the rest is pretty good.

    True you can't make everyone happy at once, you can get used to Delia, with some EFFORTS, after she lost her cute voice to become more adult
    but Jesus... Arisha, Eira, Fiona and the cringy Evie are a kick in the ass everytime they open their mouth, especially in battle.

    Lynn suddendly got a change of personality passing from a playful girl who hop around in town and smile always to someone who feel perma threated and
    reply back harsh to everyone.

    As last thing i'd say also that some characters have mixed voices in battle, where new and old voices play randomly during the fight which help to destabilize even more. More mistakes summed up are more noticeable than just one or two.

    Nothing to say about Belle, she's exactly how she should to be, and surely you won't find anyone complaining about it.

    @Kurs wrote: »
    Sixths response with the overlapping stuff is a okay response, however I believe the employees deserve some respect because chances are they did do their testing, they did take pride in their work, and they did try and I think that's worth respect. Because I'm guessing that the employees were working off of what the Vindi creators gave them, each character has a set personality and data, and chances are the creators have a direction they want to take these characters, so these employees did their best, to pick the best voices based on the character personalities (Eira and Arisha may not be as young as you assume and given their backstory, chances are there's a reason why Eira is grumpy, not everyone is going to be a happy Asian, and everyone responds to things differently), and the given direction, and there were a wider range of talent other than higher pitched Asian. The creators/storytellers may even had involvement in picking the voices, and thought these talents best fit the English language and are more what they were going for.

    Don't know what you're smoking but the creator is Devcat and if we should assume in big lines how the characters are meant to be we should stick or try to be close to the korean characterization since is the original and it come directly from the creators choice, and NOBODY ever complained about it.
    Korea for example doesn't have a sad f*** Eira, cause just doesn't make any sense.
    So what are you talking about when u say creators maybe want to give em some specific directions?

    If you didn't know Nexon NA TW KR, despite they belong to the same company, each one have freedom of choice about their selling strategies, some degrees of decisions and so on, which most probably involve also the choices about this matter.
    (Nobody ever said that we should have asian squeely voices, but i guess they went too much to the opposite direction).
    Especially if u consider the age range of these characters should be from 13 to 25 at most while Arisha and Eira for example they sound like they have 40yo.

    @Kurs wrote: »
    My question is how do you know "most people don't like it" What makes you sure they're not just the vocal few? How many people did you ask? How many people actually play and how do you know that's the number? Is it possible that some people just don't care to voice their opinion? Are you just asking people you know? And is it possible that people who stick together tend to get the same information and no other opinions which affects their responses to things which means the people you ask will give you similar responses while there are many other people who have different views? And like I said in the above response. What is "better?" Does it have to be high pitch Asian?

    Myself, whoever i talked to in game, all the ppl who posted threads about this matter on this forum, there are even polls where ppl voted.
    You must be really blind to not see how much dust have been raised since this changement and claim that 'only a few ppl' which doesn't represent anything
    in your opinion complained about.
    As i said before, those who didn't like it (and they're many) already voiced their opinion here on the forum, plus there're other ppl who don't bother to post anything but they expressed their dislike in game, the ppl who like this can be counted on 1 hand.
    And there's also a good part of ppl who don't even care whatever you serve them. Those ppl doesn't count as ppl who LIKE IT, since they don't make any choice.
    Hence u can't expect to see the whole server (we're not even so many) talking out but is quite clear that the majority is against.

    At the end of the day the best choice, since most probably they won't rework them, is to give ppl the option to hear whatever they feel more pleasant,
    and accepting also the fact that when something is wrong is wrong.

    When the majority is satisfied you know you did a great job, while you insist to promote that any kind of negative feedback is just wrong.
    Constructive criticism is always needed and help everyone (even them) to improve for future stuff.
  • VladinoVladino
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    As last thing i'd say also that some characters have mixed voices in battle, where new and old voices play randomly during the fight which help to destabilize even more. More mistakes summed up are more noticeable than just one or two.

    ^ noticeable at Lynn's LLLLRR between those two RR smashes - 1st there is new loud battle voice then original battle voice. At 1st I thought that they have left old battle voices there and just increased volume of the new ones...

    If they don't add revert option they could at least add voice volume option. Lynn battle voice is too loud, Deli battle voice is like dog barking so I'd mute that >.< ...
  • KursKurs
    Vindictus Rep: 2,220
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    edited December 17, 2019
    @DancingStar

    So, I play mostly Evie so that's what I hear the most. When I hear the new voice I don't think it's cringy so I can't really understand what you or others don't like about it. I also think there's most likely a difference between what Asians, in this specific case Koreans culture expect certain personalities to sound like and how North American culture expect personalities to sound like, as well as a difference in the available voice actor pools voice ranges. So I think that also effected voice choices.

    And I'm not sure where you're getting the idea where character personality changes happened. If you can read Korean (which I can't) I'd probably like some examples of those changes (I also like seeing what the original story intent is). I did read the entire stories on the Korean website by google translating them and from what I read the personalities seem fine to me. And the age range may not be from 13 to 25, but rather that's what most of us assumed because through the mercenary lounge we find out that the lady in Lanns story that dropped the red earring may in fact have been Vella. It's been a while since I read Lanns story but I think Lann was still a minor when Vella dropped her earring and Vella was described as an older woman. Again, I can't read Korean so I can't be too sure of the details, but if you can read Korean and understand the culture and nuances in the wording, then I definitely am interested.

    And the point of what I'm arguing for is respect towards the VA and voice teams effort. And if you're going to give suggestions, the suggestions should be constructive. Someone pointed made a video pointing out things like how mismatched Miri's voice is towards the action of picking up an object, which I think is great feedback. However, hating on the voices, and just saying things like "Lynn sounds like a old Native American woman" or a lot of swearing and hate doesn't give anyone much to go on even if they tried to understand everything and fix things. I'm in between on the argument on disliking the new voices because it's not the original and what we're used to.
    And I don't think I said anywhere that "only a few people" hated it. Rather, I'm stating that I'm wary of how people are getting these measurements of "a majority". Besides that I think people can like something but not state it on a gaming forum, not necessarily out of disinterest in the actual subject, but rather disinterest in the actual community opinion or its power or some other reason.

    I'm not against criticism or negative feedback or a voice option. However, I am for respecting effort and at least giving something a chance before judging . And I think "constructive criticism" should actually be constructive and something that can be used. I'd rather have us as a community be more welcoming towards new talent and having the Devs try something new. And I think we have to keep in mind that "what's wrong" in scientific areas is much easier to figure out than in art. I think it's a good idea to think that if you think what the other person is trying to say is stupid or unreasonable, that's probably not what they're trying to communicate, and at the very least it's good to ask them first or whatever response you feel is appropriate. And to me everything I've been trying to express and communicate is smart and reasonable. But if you or anyone else doesn't think so I'll definitely always try to listen and consider to the best of my abilities.

    Also I think while there are some good feedback and reasons for change, like in the Miri picking up objects video. I also think that a lot of the dislike for the new voices comes from not liking change from the old, what many people are used to. So it's hard to do a "good job" when any change may be disliked or the reasons for the dislike are vague and aren't something that's easy to understand and work with.
  • FranBunnyFFXIIFranBunnyFFXII
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    "Who should they listen too?"
    I dunno, maybe the 90%+ of the player base who doesn't like this change.

    This isnt a small thing where like 10% of the player base doesnt like it.
    It's pretty close that a grand standing majority of the player base thus far is not ok with this, and it's forced some people who want to keep on playing to play with their entire game muted.
    Perhapse they should listen to the 90% of people who DO NOT like this change.
    Seems like a good idea to listen to a huge majority.

    You're a gigantic baby who claimed to have run two dungeons then uninstalled the game.
    I couldnt put up with it for more than 2 dungeons before I just said "I cant do this" and logged out, wrote this post, and uninstalled the game.

    That is an extreme reaction. Given that I think it's safe to say that you're prone to exaggeration and hyperbolic, overly emotional reactions and I'd actually congratulate anybody who didn't listen to the likes of you.

    "you played the game for 2 dungeons"
    I've been playing the game for 10 years, genius.
  • lightkitelightkite
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    I know the pain! I woke up the other day and hit puberty and have sent a ticket to God to fix my voice!!!! I have been alive for 12 years!!!
    CloakshireGhengisJohn
  • GhengisJohnGhengisJohn
    Vindictus Rep: 3,200
    Posts: 252
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    edited December 22, 2019

    "Who should they listen too?"
    I dunno, maybe the 90%+ of the player base who doesn't like this change.

    This isnt a small thing where like 10% of the player base doesnt like it.
    It's pretty close that a grand standing majority of the player base thus far is not ok with this, and it's forced some people who want to keep on playing to play with their entire game muted.
    Perhapse they should listen to the 90% of people who DO NOT like this change.
    Seems like a good idea to listen to a huge majority.

    You're a gigantic baby who claimed to have run two dungeons then uninstalled the game.
    I couldnt put up with it for more than 2 dungeons before I just said "I cant do this" and logged out, wrote this post, and uninstalled the game.

    That is an extreme reaction. Given that I think it's safe to say that you're prone to exaggeration and hyperbolic, overly emotional reactions and I'd actually congratulate anybody who didn't listen to the likes of you.

    "you played the game for 2 dungeons"
    I've been playing the game for 10 years, genius.

    The very post, of yours, that I am quoting to you is about how you can't adjust to this change and how you hate the new voice. Why are you going to assume that I think you are talking about running two dungeons EVER when you are complaining about wanting a thing from the past? A thing you could have never experienced if you had just started playing. I feel like the fact that you even inferred that says that you're a colossal moron. Clearly you are saying you ran two dungeons with the new voices. I would have thought that so obvious it doesn't have to be explained, but here we are.

    It's not like this response of yours does anything to change my initial opinion. It's almost like
    you're prone to exaggeration and hyperbolic, overly emotional reactions

    I said you "ran two dungeons", and you leapt to "You played the game for two dungeons ever." Compared to you, yes, I am a genius.

    And seeing as you're so dim I'm going to lay some wisdom on you. Change is a part of life. They already changed your character's face right? I'm just going to assume your character is Fiona from the Fiona avatar and this note about Fiona's voice:
    Fiona's new voice is a mix of ugu kawaii animu girl trying too hard to be cute, and daisy ridley doing light saber battle sounds.
    It's **** awful.
    I couldnt put up with it for more than 2 dungeons before I just said "I cant do this" and logged out, wrote this post, and uninstalled the game.

    If that's wrong, hey sorry, don't cut my head off. Thing is, that's MY main too. When that happened, I was upset. I would love to link you some forum posts showing you how upset I was but it looks like the old forums are inaccessible now. I understand your anger. Though four years later I'm used to it. In fact, I even think the new face is better now. But that's just me. And they rolled out the new voices and I'm used to them already too, I even like a lot of them.

    You can scream and shout and cry and pout but change still comes. It's not always good or for the better but it is easier to at least deal with if you approach it with an open mind. I'd like to think if you gave them a chance, you'd get used to them too.

    And you're going to want to tell me "F**** you" and "p**** off with that s**** I want my old voice back!" Thing is though, no amount of yelling at me or cussing me out is going to get you what you want, and it's not like I'm the guy who can keep it from you either.

    I hear there's a voice toggle coming, I hope you get what you want out of it but you know, prepare yourself for disappointment ahead of time. That's a part of life too, and a part of dealing with Nexon, sadly, lol. I think the problem is going to be that the options are English and Korean and Fiona's old voice was a separate English dub. But we'll see how that pans out.

    Just out of curiosity, when did you make your character? When I made mine the highest battle was hidden and they never turned all shiny. Wondering how early you had to be for that to happen.
  • FranBunnyFFXIIFranBunnyFFXII
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    These **** idiots put in the korean voice, the english voice, and option and then neglected to give us the orginal voices like we asked for.
    Waht a **** joke.

    I'm done. I never imagined I'd quit this game over something like this. I expected this game to die and come out with a "were shutting down vindictus" but no you had to go and pull one of the dumbest involuntary, and fixable character alterations I have ever seen.
    Bravo Nexon, Bravo.
  • CloakshireCloakshire
    Vindictus Rep: 4,460
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    edited December 23, 2019
    These **** idiots put in the korean voice, the english voice, and option and then neglected to give us the orginal voices like we asked for.
    Waht a **** joke.

    I'm done. I never imagined I'd quit this game over something like this. I expected this game to die and come out with a "were shutting down vindictus" but no you had to go and pull one of the dumbest involuntary, and fixable character alterations I have ever seen.
    Bravo Nexon, Bravo.

    I think it's time for you to come down off that cross you've propped yourself up on; use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it like everyone else.

    If you don't like the voices & it ruins the game for you, go ahead and quit. We could use less over the top emotional ramblings from a keyboard warrior like yourself. See you in your next post where you find something else to complain about again.
  • VladinoVladino
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    Lynn got back original battle voice. Idk about other chars. Thanks for that at least.
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    Vladino wrote: »
    Lynn got back original battle voice. Idk about other chars. Thanks for that at least.

    Everyone got their originals back except for Lann, Fiona, and Evie. We got the KR voices instead of the "old," NA ones. Still, it's better than the new NA imo so I'm not complaining +cold
    BladeNsoul
  • SixthSixth
    Vindictus Rep: 1,400
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    Cloakshire wrote: »
    Everyone got their originals back except for Lann, Fiona, and Evie. We got the KR voices instead of the "old," NA ones. Still, it's better than the new NA imo so I'm not complaining +cold

    So, in short, you like the KR voices, and everyone who wanted the old, NA/EU voices back are lowlife trash, and can be ignored.
    That's what your post implies.

    It's fine if you like the KR voices, I don't mind, but lets not pretend that we didn't use another battle voice for over 10 years, okay?
    I agree, the KR voices are still better than these new ones we got, but that's no reason to not give us the option to set our voices back to the original, non-KR voices we got used to over the decade we played.
    It would have taken them around 3 extra minutes to add those voices back (if they type really slow). It sure is a lot to ask for, yeah, unimaginable extra work. Excuse us for hoping to get our voices back.

    But hey, everything is fine because you like the KR battle voices better than the new English battle voices.

    Feel free to call me a keyboard warrior too. That coming from you is kinda ironic, but hey, people love that kind of thing around here, so bring the entertainment.
    Finding something else to complain? Ohh boy... ignorance is bliss, like they say. You can pretend that everything is right with the game, but I prefer to live in reality, thanks.

    At least my eira got her voice back. My lann will remain a stranger forever, I guess, because 3 minutes of extra work is way too much to expect from Nexon.
    So, a big thanks for restoring my eira's voice, but a big thumbs down for not giving back the old voices for the 3 oldest characters made in Vindictus.

    And no, I don't know you, you don't know me, and that's the way it will remain, I guess. This post is not against you, it's not a personal attack, it is just my reaction to your (yeah, shocking) emotional response to FranBunnyFFXII, who I also don't know, so please, don't go there. Fran may be too emotional, but at least he doesn't act like someone who pretends that everything is fine with the game here.
    The amount of sh*t tier code they have put into the game is mind-boggling. I can't wait for those over the top PC users to feel the backlash from all that crap. I will be here to tell them the "change your potato" comments. You can drop tons of crap code into any game, but sooner or later, even those high end PC users will feel the wonderful effects of zero optimization whether they upgrade their PC or not. It's not even about optimization at this point, it's about caring or not caring at all.
    We agree on some topics, but on others, not so much. This topic just happens to be in the latter group.

    And wow, yeah, get used to everything. Never complain, never voice your opinion of dislike with anything. We certainly got this voice change option because no one complained about the new voices. Totally. You guys with the "don't complain and get used to it" comments make me laugh. No, seriously. The world would be stuck in the 3rd century (and that's very optimistic) by following your logic, but okay, I'm sure it makes sense to you guys to drop those comments, so it's fine.