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Maybe people should start using rookie weapon and armors and see how they fare in these battles.
I haven't tried old contents on new characters to see how boss mechanics got eradicated but haven't geared players been oneshotting and got bored of these s1/s2 bosses even before update? Who even does ekinar if fast ES doesn't drop there? People are claiming as if they even do hero mode s1, when people only run minimal stuff that yields any source of gold.
Relevant contents are still as hard as they were, and I bet only a few of you here ever thought about soloing neamhain (but that's really gear dependent to finish within one hour). If you really call the game too easy, just downgrade yourself, own weapon ranging from +0 to +10 or higher like I do and calibrate difficulties that way. Players complain all the times instead of finding solutions of their own. Feel free to correct flaws in my argument since I wrote this in a rush.
This isn't just geared players that are being debated here. What about new players? I joined Vindi a few weeks pre-Rise. Do I just, not count, under your demographic of players this update should be targeting? I'm not geared crazy well, but the difficulty in the level of content is just STAGGERINGLY low now. I can beat Lionotus in seconds with left clicks now. Pre-RISE? Hell no. That wouldn't have flown.
Also I have no real defense for this point other than the statement, "I did..." but uh. On the topic of whether anyone played Hero mode pre-endgame....I did.
As for relevant content goes, like...I'm sorry if my opinion is wrong, but isn't *all* the content *any* player could be put into important? Do new players or alts just. Not matter? It's fine to strip the enjoyment and challenge out of raising these other characters if it means getting these people into the endgame tier of players ASAP? The stuff any new player would be put into just isn't fun. It is painfully uninteresting now. People in this thread have made a ton of examples as to how easy the content is now, so don't just take my word for it.
The final point I'd like to address is the topic of self nerfing. If the game is SO painfully, bloody easy, that you need to GIVE UP the items that DEFINE your character progression in this MMO, in order to make the content *slightly* more bearable...There's a problem. There are a lot of ideas on how the balance between character strength and player skill should be. Vindi used to lean on the side of player skill: Your gear is great, but it's not going to be the reason you obliterate bosses. Your player skill defined how often you'd be doing your dps, or how frequently you'd be wasting time and resources getting hit, etc. The additions this update brought with it have *focused* the entire game around gear instead of skill now. Everything has significantly less HP so higher DPS will likely get greater rewards for the end of the mission, enhancing can be taken farther (for diminishing returns) and the additional ATK stat has been buffed immensely (so now enhancing is SUPER important.)
All these things mash together to create these terrible, god awful 10 second long pissing contests between players and their gear. Gear which is only really actively contributing to a new leaderboard of pointless stats.
There is plenty of challenge at endgame I think we can all agree.
Due to the very distributed population and not a lot of new players, the "challenging" low level content like polar bear was becoming frustrating instead of fun for new players. It really was hard to clear in level-appropriate gear with no help, boats took an eternity to fill up, and the rewards for finishing those fights other than quest progression were worthless. You basically had to wait for or ask for a carry.
I agree they should have mildly challenging optional content but on balance it's probably better to ease people in.
I agree they should have mildly challenging optional content but on balance it's probably better to ease people in.
Hello, the game already had something called "Easy" difficulty, which allowed player to go through quests w/o bothering to find a boat if they couldn't find one. It was solo only, and the boss were already suited for the solo play.
What Rise has done is no news, but to the point of FORCING players to do this one, single, easy mode is just dumb.
I don't mind if you disagree with me nor do I mind if you want to say that I am delusional about this update but, I'm finding Vindictus: Rise to be one of the better updates for me.
I've played the game a long time ago for 5 and a half years. The pure RNG of getting anything valuable for me was so minuscule that it eventually steered me away from the game. With the Update despite what people say, for me the game is more playable. I struggled gearing my characters before due to sheer bad luck and now I can gear all of them up with ease.
The fun for me in Rise is in the droprates. The fun for me in Vindictus in general was getting the drops I needed to get stronger equipment. Now I am aware of the lack of content that Rise brought to the table.
I mean when I think about it, this update made me stop playing League of Legends, possibly one of the most if not THE most toxic games out there to date.
That's just for me. I find the game fun now. I'm having a blast.
Every so often I look at Vindictus, and this was one of those times. I was about to make a post about difficulty. I was so happy to see they finally revamped the terrible quest system, and I was all excited to finally be able to recommend this game to people at least a little bit, since this update seemed to do a lot of quality of life things which were nice. Finally leveling up/alting was not going to involve 3 hours of pancake delivery.
Sadly, they completely screwed up the difficulty, huh? That's a damn shame. I loaded up a stage on my Lann, expecting to get bodied by the boss like I usually do when I try to solo it, only to find it die in 20 seconds. God dammit...
I waited so long for this game to fix it's terrible systems (as I could never convince my friends to get passed the horrible running around town quests), only to find that the main appeal of the game, the difficulty, is now completely gone unless you're dangling at the very end of the content. This fate seems to happen to a lot of online games that choose to have linear stat progression, which is usually a bad design decision for a game with a fleshed out combat system.
Uuuuugh...! Beta, played since the BETA, off and on very much so. FINALLY the game fixes a lot of it's ****, the bugs are mostly gone, the game has a good amount of content, the combat is cleaner now than it was, characters are more diverse and interesting -- only to have the game be a ****' joke, which completely undermines the ENTIRE purpose of having an interesting combat system.
I hate modern gaming... I especially hate when an old game updates to conform to it...
--
Guess I can mark Vindictus back on my "To play" list. Lemme know if the difficulty comes back. Ugh, why didn't they at LEAST put a difficulty slider on things? I would play on ultra super mega hard. I want a challenge with my friends, god dammit. Now I can't even play the game without my friends because I don't enjoy rolling my hand across my keyboard and having stuff explode.
Let me know if they change this decision, or add a difficulty slider, or something. If people want to walk through the game, let them, but at least let me choose to get destroyed if I want to, like ANY game worth a damn. UUUUUGH~
I'm glad enchanting has gotten a bit easier with the scraps and everything so we don't have to fail several high-end scrolls to no avail, but it seems counter-intuitive that while they made one side of RNG more bearable, the other side (enhancing) did not get the same treatment.
Some may argue that the new enhance rates were that, but I don't know. After failing to get to +8 and nearly zero-ing out another weapon's durability, I feel mortified... LOL. Weapon's can only be enhanced before they boom now as well, meaning the "enhanced rates" from one level to another is completely counter-acted by that fact alone since a lot of players got their high enhanced weapons by attempting to enhance after restoring.
And to put some salt in the wounds, enhancing is much much more important now because of the rise of additional damage relevance.
tl;dr this update has been one step forward two steps back.
If you do not like the update, you have two choices. One is do what you did and cry and moan and complain, even stomp your feet and hold your breath if you like. The other is to quit the game and move on. A 3 week investment is minuscule compared to people who have been here since 2010. As a matter of fact, I find your post somewhat insulting, crying like that and being a 3 week noob.
Ironically, it's the new players who Nexon really cares about. The whole purpose of the RISE update is to get new players to play and "enjoy" this game for a long time.
If you do not like the update, you have two choices. One is do what you did and cry and moan and complain, even stomp your feet and hold your breath if you like. The other is to quit the game and move on. A 3 week investment is minuscule compared to people who have been here since 2010. As a matter of fact, I find your post somewhat insulting, crying like that and being a 3 week noob.
Ironically, it's the new players who Nexon really cares about. The whole purpose of the RISE update is to get new players to play and "enjoy" this game for a long time.
Shame Nexon hasn't figured out that it costs more to bring in new customers than to retain old ones, and that loyalty and retention are much more valuable to a company than flighty spenders.
I am trying to figure out how this if "fun", even for leveling. I just got one of my alts to Blood Lord... This is how every boss fight goes. (I am wearing whatever crud gear they give me.) Less than 20 seconds of fighting on a boss that used to be one of the best :-(
I am trying to figure out how this if "fun", even for leveling. I just got one of my alts to Blood Lord... This is how every boss fight goes. (I am wearing whatever crud gear they give me.) Less than 20 seconds of fighting on a boss that used to be one of the best :-(
That was brutal, and there was only *one* person there. Just imagine if you where doing this with friends. He wouldn't have survived through the first freeze and that's assuming he even lasted that long. Not that Blood Lord was super hard in the first place in my opinion, but he was certainly more threatening when he actually had a chance to use most of his attack patterns.
Back when Blood Lord released, we actually had a party system to win the battle due to his difficulty. We'd use light of plara in order down the party list because of the effectiveness of it against vampires. It might come off as a bother to some, but planning strategies ahead of battle was fun. Executing them successfully made it all the more satisfying. The challenge in combat itself as the focus of Vindi was great; now that challenge is focused elsewhere.
Watching these bosses go down so easily kinda hurts me in a way. Convenience is great, but too much of it will lose the point.
The changes to Perilous Ruins are great, but considering how fast you beat these bosses, you can't enjoy much of it.
This is the Gnoll Chieftain I wanna remember. The boss that actually kicked my butt the first time I ever challenged him in 2010. He's a different Gnoll now and I'm not talking about his appearance.
Glas was probably my favorite boss in Rocheste, but after challenging him with a new character I was just met with disappointment. With a new character, he is nowhere near what he was as depicted in the trailer.
I think every veteran in here are letting nostalgia fuel their rage. Let's admit it, before RISE, no one at endgame would come back to do these battles. And even if they do, they'd probably melt the bosses just as fast as now. A friend actually made a very apt comparison to the Harambe meme. No one really cared about him until he was gone.
As for new players, I remember when people, pre RISE, would mega for hours looking for a party to fill their quest boats. Even if they do fill, most of the time they can't host, so the battle just wouldn't be enjoyable anyways. Sure they could've done easy mode, but that's not very efficient in terms of leveling. I leveled two characters to 90 post RISE and i found it way more enjoyable than before. Also, if anyone has ever played an MMO in their life, you know that it's all about the endgame. I personally get super bored if the grind to endgame gets super dragged out in other MMORPGS, and that was how leveling pre RISE was like.
Of course there's a ton of things wrong with RISE, but I think the main point of this thread seems to be about the earlier content and whether it's fun or not, and I think RISE did a pretty good job to make it as streamlined and efficient as possible while still making it enjoyable, compared to before.
I still find this game fun. It's all about adaptability. Times change. People shouldn't be "I remember when battles were ___". Instead, just try to look at the positives even though I know being negative about things, especially on forums, is a good conversation point. People are treating RISE like it's the last ever patch we'll ever get in Vindi.
The problem with Vindictus is the early game is too easy and the end game is TOO HARD. The player goes from breath on the boss and it dies mode until season 3 when player hits a difficulty cliff and then gets steam rolled.
It's no surprise that bosses become easier the more you progress. That itself is natural as you become stronger and become more experienced.
However, these bosses were nerfed; that itself isn't what you would call natural.
are people actually surprised old bosses turn into a joke over time
There's "turning into a joke", and then there's straight up MELTING old bosses.
You shouldn't be melting a Lv44 boss while YOU are Lv44.
What they SHOULD have done was:
- Keep the game's Easy Mode, but give the EXP and AP we have currently with Normal. It gives an incentive to run these bosses without having to wait forever and a day for a party if you don't want to.
- They SHOULD have kept Hard Mode. Keep it as it was Pre-Rise; increase the chance for better rewards.
- Keep Hero Mode the way it was meant to be: Unforgiving. Not make it the new Hard Mode with Hero speed.
There's no reason S1 and S2 should be bathed in Easy Mode, then as soon as you get to S3, it's like "WHAM! Get rekt scrub."
are people actually surprised old bosses turn into a joke over time
Wasn't the case.
I had a few friends. End game geared and knew how to solo S2, S3 raid bosses.
Then some event or whatever happens where they need to fight the white polar bear.
They die to it on hard/season of macha because they don't know how to fight it. This is with endgame stats as well.
are people actually surprised old bosses turn into a joke over time
Wasn't the case.
I had a few friends. End game geared and knew how to solo S2, S3 raid bosses.
Then some event or whatever happens where they need to fight the white polar bear.
They die to it on hard/season of macha because they don't know how to fight it. This is with endgame stats as well.
On hard...?
That's more impressive than interesting, like how?
I think every veteran in here are letting nostalgia fuel their rage. Let's admit it, before RISE, no one at endgame would come back to do these battles. And even if they do, they'd probably melt the bosses just as fast as now. A friend actually made a very apt comparison to the Harambe meme. No one really cared about him until he was gone.
Nah, not really. Most of my characters were never so geared that S1 was this much of a cake walk. Some characters had good enough armor that hits could mostly get shaken off, but I couldn't flat out ignore the boss attacking me and just dps, and it sure didn't take less than a minute to kill raid bosses.
The new Hero mode doesn't even fix anything. It's a joke if you're over geared, and if you're not, the bosses aren't harder, they just become damage sponges.
are people actually surprised old bosses turn into a joke over time
A joke for a fully geared max level character? No ****. A joke for a first time player with trainee gear? That's a problem. What's the actual point of any of the pre-endgame content if there's no challenge to it, and why would anyone continue playing the game long enough to reach endgame if they weren't challenged by it at all?
Again let's all be honest here, the reason they did this is to brush off the game's past and try to forget about it, since they've decided to move the game in a new direction of gear2win. Back in the early days you would grind out bosses that kicked your ass to get new gear because it was a status symbol. Now everything is just absurdly overtuned stats and enhancement fodder and the goal is to reduce your raid time as much as possible. Nexon's ideal endgame is for a fully geared wallet warrior to just walk up to a raid boss and oneshot it.
Comments
This isn't just geared players that are being debated here. What about new players? I joined Vindi a few weeks pre-Rise. Do I just, not count, under your demographic of players this update should be targeting? I'm not geared crazy well, but the difficulty in the level of content is just STAGGERINGLY low now. I can beat Lionotus in seconds with left clicks now. Pre-RISE? Hell no. That wouldn't have flown.
Also I have no real defense for this point other than the statement, "I did..." but uh. On the topic of whether anyone played Hero mode pre-endgame....I did.
As for relevant content goes, like...I'm sorry if my opinion is wrong, but isn't *all* the content *any* player could be put into important? Do new players or alts just. Not matter? It's fine to strip the enjoyment and challenge out of raising these other characters if it means getting these people into the endgame tier of players ASAP? The stuff any new player would be put into just isn't fun. It is painfully uninteresting now. People in this thread have made a ton of examples as to how easy the content is now, so don't just take my word for it.
The final point I'd like to address is the topic of self nerfing. If the game is SO painfully, bloody easy, that you need to GIVE UP the items that DEFINE your character progression in this MMO, in order to make the content *slightly* more bearable...There's a problem. There are a lot of ideas on how the balance between character strength and player skill should be. Vindi used to lean on the side of player skill: Your gear is great, but it's not going to be the reason you obliterate bosses. Your player skill defined how often you'd be doing your dps, or how frequently you'd be wasting time and resources getting hit, etc. The additions this update brought with it have *focused* the entire game around gear instead of skill now. Everything has significantly less HP so higher DPS will likely get greater rewards for the end of the mission, enhancing can be taken farther (for diminishing returns) and the additional ATK stat has been buffed immensely (so now enhancing is SUPER important.)
All these things mash together to create these terrible, god awful 10 second long pissing contests between players and their gear. Gear which is only really actively contributing to a new leaderboard of pointless stats.
Due to the very distributed population and not a lot of new players, the "challenging" low level content like polar bear was becoming frustrating instead of fun for new players. It really was hard to clear in level-appropriate gear with no help, boats took an eternity to fill up, and the rewards for finishing those fights other than quest progression were worthless. You basically had to wait for or ask for a carry.
I agree they should have mildly challenging optional content but on balance it's probably better to ease people in.
Hello, the game already had something called "Easy" difficulty, which allowed player to go through quests w/o bothering to find a boat if they couldn't find one. It was solo only, and the boss were already suited for the solo play.
What Rise has done is no news, but to the point of FORCING players to do this one, single, easy mode is just dumb.
I've played the game a long time ago for 5 and a half years. The pure RNG of getting anything valuable for me was so minuscule that it eventually steered me away from the game. With the Update despite what people say, for me the game is more playable. I struggled gearing my characters before due to sheer bad luck and now I can gear all of them up with ease.
The fun for me in Rise is in the droprates. The fun for me in Vindictus in general was getting the drops I needed to get stronger equipment. Now I am aware of the lack of content that Rise brought to the table.
I mean when I think about it, this update made me stop playing League of Legends, possibly one of the most if not THE most toxic games out there to date.
That's just for me.
Sadly, they completely screwed up the difficulty, huh? That's a damn shame. I loaded up a stage on my Lann, expecting to get bodied by the boss like I usually do when I try to solo it, only to find it die in 20 seconds. God dammit...
I waited so long for this game to fix it's terrible systems (as I could never convince my friends to get passed the horrible running around town quests), only to find that the main appeal of the game, the difficulty, is now completely gone unless you're dangling at the very end of the content. This fate seems to happen to a lot of online games that choose to have linear stat progression, which is usually a bad design decision for a game with a fleshed out combat system.
Uuuuugh...! Beta, played since the BETA, off and on very much so. FINALLY the game fixes a lot of it's ****, the bugs are mostly gone, the game has a good amount of content, the combat is cleaner now than it was, characters are more diverse and interesting -- only to have the game be a ****' joke, which completely undermines the ENTIRE purpose of having an interesting combat system.
I hate modern gaming... I especially hate when an old game updates to conform to it...
--
Guess I can mark Vindictus back on my "To play" list. Lemme know if the difficulty comes back. Ugh, why didn't they at LEAST put a difficulty slider on things? I would play on ultra super mega hard. I want a challenge with my friends, god dammit. Now I can't even play the game without my friends because I don't enjoy rolling my hand across my keyboard and having stuff explode.
Let me know if they change this decision, or add a difficulty slider, or something. If people want to walk through the game, let them, but at least let me choose to get destroyed if I want to, like ANY game worth a damn. UUUUUGH~
Some may argue that the new enhance rates were that, but I don't know. After failing to get to +8 and nearly zero-ing out another weapon's durability, I feel mortified... LOL. Weapon's can only be enhanced before they boom now as well, meaning the "enhanced rates" from one level to another is completely counter-acted by that fact alone since a lot of players got their high enhanced weapons by attempting to enhance after restoring.
And to put some salt in the wounds, enhancing is much much more important now because of the rise of additional damage relevance.
tl;dr this update has been one step forward two steps back.
Ironically, it's the new players who Nexon really cares about. The whole purpose of the RISE update is to get new players to play and "enjoy" this game for a long time.
Shame Nexon hasn't figured out that it costs more to bring in new customers than to retain old ones, and that loyalty and retention are much more valuable to a company than flighty spenders.
That was brutal, and there was only *one* person there. Just imagine if you where doing this with friends. He wouldn't have survived through the first freeze and that's assuming he even lasted that long. Not that Blood Lord was super hard in the first place in my opinion, but he was certainly more threatening when he actually had a chance to use most of his attack patterns.
Watching these bosses go down so easily kinda hurts me in a way. Convenience is great, but too much of it will lose the point.
The changes to Perilous Ruins are great, but considering how fast you beat these bosses, you can't enjoy much of it.
This is the Gnoll Chieftain I wanna remember. The boss that actually kicked my butt the first time I ever challenged him in 2010. He's a different Gnoll now and I'm not talking about his appearance.
Glas was probably my favorite boss in Rocheste, but after challenging him with a new character I was just met with disappointment. With a new character, he is nowhere near what he was as depicted in the trailer.
As for new players, I remember when people, pre RISE, would mega for hours looking for a party to fill their quest boats. Even if they do fill, most of the time they can't host, so the battle just wouldn't be enjoyable anyways. Sure they could've done easy mode, but that's not very efficient in terms of leveling. I leveled two characters to 90 post RISE and i found it way more enjoyable than before. Also, if anyone has ever played an MMO in their life, you know that it's all about the endgame. I personally get super bored if the grind to endgame gets super dragged out in other MMORPGS, and that was how leveling pre RISE was like.
Of course there's a ton of things wrong with RISE, but I think the main point of this thread seems to be about the earlier content and whether it's fun or not, and I think RISE did a pretty good job to make it as streamlined and efficient as possible while still making it enjoyable, compared to before.
I still find this game fun. It's all about adaptability. Times change. People shouldn't be "I remember when battles were ___". Instead, just try to look at the positives even though I know being negative about things, especially on forums, is a good conversation point. People are treating RISE like it's the last ever patch we'll ever get in Vindi.
However, these bosses were nerfed; that itself isn't what you would call natural.
There's "turning into a joke", and then there's straight up MELTING old bosses.
You shouldn't be melting a Lv44 boss while YOU are Lv44.
What they SHOULD have done was:
- Keep the game's Easy Mode, but give the EXP and AP we have currently with Normal. It gives an incentive to run these bosses without having to wait forever and a day for a party if you don't want to.
- They SHOULD have kept Hard Mode. Keep it as it was Pre-Rise; increase the chance for better rewards.
- Keep Hero Mode the way it was meant to be: Unforgiving. Not make it the new Hard Mode with Hero speed.
There's no reason S1 and S2 should be bathed in Easy Mode, then as soon as you get to S3, it's like "WHAM! Get rekt scrub."
Wasn't the case.
I had a few friends. End game geared and knew how to solo S2, S3 raid bosses.
Then some event or whatever happens where they need to fight the white polar bear.
They die to it on hard/season of macha because they don't know how to fight it. This is with endgame stats as well.
On hard...?
That's more impressive than interesting, like how?
The new Hero mode doesn't even fix anything. It's a joke if you're over geared, and if you're not, the bosses aren't harder, they just become damage sponges.
A joke for a fully geared max level character? No ****. A joke for a first time player with trainee gear? That's a problem. What's the actual point of any of the pre-endgame content if there's no challenge to it, and why would anyone continue playing the game long enough to reach endgame if they weren't challenged by it at all?
Again let's all be honest here, the reason they did this is to brush off the game's past and try to forget about it, since they've decided to move the game in a new direction of gear2win. Back in the early days you would grind out bosses that kicked your ass to get new gear because it was a status symbol. Now everything is just absurdly overtuned stats and enhancement fodder and the goal is to reduce your raid time as much as possible. Nexon's ideal endgame is for a fully geared wallet warrior to just walk up to a raid boss and oneshot it.