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KuraiHotaru wrote: »It's funny on how you use mobs as an example. Didn't know you took 30seconds to kill one mob, I thought it was more like 0.1sec to clear the mobs.
At game launch it took atleast 30 seconds to clear one group of mobs at equal level. Now it takes 0.1 seconds because of tons of nerfs and finally Rise.
KuraiHotaru wrote: »Now if you were refering to bosses. Let's take Havan as an example. He starts his pillar attack combo, if you dodge it before he barely started and you're suddenly on the otherside of the map, Havan won't simply cancel his combo half way through, you'll see him continuing the full combo on nothing facing you. Because that's how the AI is coded.
Now if you imagine Havan played by a player, he would stop his combo right as you get away from him, and instead walk towards you and start a new combo or an attack. That's what PvP is, the enemy is conscious and will react to your moves. Not simply continue a full combo on nothing. "Hence the dodge key" that allows you to interrupt yourself to start anew. Bosses don't have conscience and they can't decide when to dodge, it's RNG as the move "dodge, teleport" is on their list of current moves that they can do, which usually have a few restrictions: like, Move: A,B,C are unable to do if target is not near, therefore D,E,F is unlocked for range combat."
You're using a Season 2 example. I claimed that bosses had difficult AIs when the game first launched. I don't even think Season 1 was complete at launch. Season 2 was a significant nerf with the only challenge being the massive difficulty gap between modes since mob difficulty was based on a mode's max level, not its min level.
KuraiHotaru wrote: »AI is predictable. They're coded to do lets say 5 different motions, you don't see them canceling one of their combo moves half way through it to catch you of guard with another set of combos or an attack. Once the RNG decided to do one motion or combo it does it 100%. Summary: it doesn't cancel it's combo to start another right away to catch you of guard. There is always a start point and an end point.
Again, it's like that now. It wasn't like that at launch. The game got easier and easier over the years, just like how Mabinogi got simpler and simpler (look up the Snowman Puzzle and you'll know what I mean). Bosses used to shorten their attacks to go into others if need be, and any interrupts reset them. Heck, Vindi took that from Mabi since Mabi mobs did the same exact thing - they could begin casting a skill and cancel it for any reason, allowing them to go right into another.
In PvP you can bait your opponent into doing something, you can compare it to chess if you want. Can the bosses in PvE dodge attacks? Can they stop you from dodging? Do they try to take as least damage as possible and win the exchange? They don't have counter for your actions, just huge amounts of HP. So again, using a boss as a punching bag that fights back and literally alerts you of it's attacks takes more intelligence than fighting an actual human? I'm not sure, answer that yourself. I'll repeat it once again PvE is 100% predictable.
I don't know when you started playing this game, but back at launch the mobs did all of that - they'd get close to you, start a menacing movement, and pull away to trick you; they'd dodge your attacks; bosses would execute some moves automatically (like the gnoll chieftain doing his spin out of nowhere) and also dodged; they knew how to counter attacks and their AI did aggro players that tried to get away (now that feature would be useless because there's no dodge stam limit). PvE didn't used to be predictable, and that added to the game's difficulty.
This rule would only apply if you had a pattern in PvP which would guarantee you a win, but there is none. You can get used to the attacks of a certain class but not the way that the PLAYER is executing them. Sure, one step into learning how to PvP in Vindictus would be to learn ALL the attacks of all classes so you know what you can expect. But you can't how they'll position themselves, how will they approach you, if they'll try to counter you or not.
Wrong. Anyone with half a brain can learn how to deal with multiple uses of the same tired skills. A good number of players in this game don't even skill cancel, yet you act as if they don't have animations that can be predicted? What about combos - you know, those attacks that lead into one another? The only characters that are immune to this are full-ranged characters, but that's one reason PvP is broken.
Additionally, your examples are all about pro PvPers. Again, most players don't even skill cancel, or rely on their stats too much. But the thing is that Vindictus is designed where enemy AIs can do all of those things, but the developers have chosen to nerf PvE every chance they get; it didn't used to be this way, as PvE used to require actual thought.
@DesireOfMine You have clearly not played boat pvp at all, your characters have a total of 57 duels, all of them likely trolls. I have over 1000 boat pvp duels (balanced for faitness) clocked now and multiple friends of mine have over 4000 total duels.This is probably gonna sound like a** licking, but @DesireOfMine is probably the most knowledgeable person about PvP in the game world wide with more than 25k total arena wins (do the math regarding time invested yourself) and many many hours invested in deducting mechanics and information about the PvP in itself
"(2)
Dungeon PvP is skill-less. There is no point to even talk in terms of 'power ranks' or whatever if it's about dungeon PvP. There is no counter system whatsoever, normal attacks knock down opponent and invulnerability works as in PvE (generally everything works like in PvE, which just doesn't work - you may as well just perma knock someone), etc. etc. Dungeon PvP is just attack spam basically - no thinking at all."
This is the most uninformed post I have ever seen. I don't know if I even want to respond. Fight anyone good in boat pvp and you would get destroyed, good luck attack spamming them. The counter system is dodge/get good, something that you don't have to do with your stats evidently. There were PvP tournaments on NA West that are on youtube that demonstrate this and the player that won the 1st PvP Tourney came 2nd in the next one. I can list the very best of the best in boat pvp and all of them were carried by their skill, something you can hardly say about arena where stats and character are really all that matters, good luck as many character matchups are borderline unwinnable and many stat matchups are borderline unwinnable (someone with huge stats has a massive advantage in arena, meanwhile it is balanced in boat pvp.)
In fact the best spear lann on West (Formation) would dodge my hollow shot with spear lann's dodge 99% of the time, this was back when the dodge was 0.3 seconds of invulnerability. Bow kai also uses longbow only in the vast majority of boat pvp which requires much more skill and is much more engaging than shortbow is.
@Arrow95 "If your on West I wouldn't mind to see what you're made of, sorry if you thought my motto was egotistical but I havnt had a good challenage in a long time
About the lag it would be nice if all the Servers could come together without any lag, Pvp wouldn't be so dead then. "
Yes I am on west, feel free to add me - "Sylerius" is my Kai, I would love to duel you. And nah don't worry about the motto lol I don't mind. If you are good at boat pvp/enjoy it though I am sure I will be able to put up a good show.
