_Kale

Deprived wrote: »

But I know everyone wants to give their opinion and feel important no matter how useless it is, I understand, you just want a little attention even if you make yourself look stupid in the process, whatever it takes to get a little attention in your lonely life right? It's okay, I know.
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LOL please child, you don't know what the hell you're talking about or what this conversation is even about
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You sound like a girl that knows nothing about sports but wants to jump into a sports debate and tell everyone what's what and act like they know everything about it and act like they're smarter than everyone to stroke their own ego or fit in or something.

Your arguments might be better received if you presented them without the intent to offend.

Deprived wrote: »

@TheDazzling - You're exactly right, Arisha is also high skill difficulty with not too much reward for it.

Arisha is pretty clearly a high reward character. I don't think even Dazz himself expects anyone to take him seriously. His comment was tongue in cheek.


More on topic - it's disappointing how terrible these threads are, and it's understandable that people respond with "oh look it's this thread again" or silly comments about salt. But I think that's unfortunate because it's a worthwhile discussion to have. It's especially disappointing when some of the silly comments come from players with the most to contribute to this discussion.

I've leveled every class and almost every weapon to 95. I've soloed neam and earned golden god on several. But I still think I'm far from having a complete grasp of character balance in the game. Our impressions are limited by our own experiences. In some cases, there were specific players like Karic and Chalant who completely changed the opinions I had about their classes up until I raided with them. I'd really like to hear from players like them who might have different experiences from my own, and I don't think that kind of discussion should be discouraged.

Aside from people talking out of their asses, I think the reason these threads fail is that the analyses and comparisons are just too shallow. How do you define reward? Is it dps? How do you define skill? Is it the skill floor to stay alive and contribute? Is it the skill ceiling to maximize dps? Are you considering both solo and party play? What range of attack speed are you comparing? Are you talking about agile bosses or slow bosses? Large bosses or small? There's no way to begin actual discussions of character balance without considering these things. Miri is still by far the most op class (20% damage nerf when?) and I would put her in her own damage potential/"reward" category, but I wouldn't say she's unequivocally the most op class in every circumstance. There's always room for discussion.

That said, maybe the forums just aren't a good place for a discussion like this. The vindi subreddit lacks the userbase of the discord servers. Discord lacks the organized structure (comment chaining) of sites like reddit. And naturally the forums lack both.

Ikarsu wrote: »

Except that twin sword lann benefits the least out of all the possible classes. due to his massive gap in between attacks and dodging.

Low frequency attacks generally have higher multipliers than high frequency attacks; that's how classes and skills are balanced. AD is subject to those attack multipliers, so the frequency of attacks doesn't affect how much a given class benefits from it.

Would you mind sharing your fix?

Weiss_Oswald wrote: »

It is not about how strong or how weak Arisha is. Any character can do very well without the book. I've seen pretty good Lanns out there do just fine with what the game currently offers, and don't really use tons of infuses.

It is not about how strong or how weak Arisha is. Any character can do very well without the book. I've seen pretty good Arishas out there do just fine with what the game currently offers without being crit-capped.

Weiss_Oswald wrote: »

The point is, they're apparently trying to balance out all the characters with Evie and Sylas (for the lack of 3 crit) but they completely leave out 2 characters and allow them to be CRITICALLY NERFED (pun intended) by a factor of 3%.
No, the defense and critical resistance (don't mention M.Att of focus - The m.att of focus is to compensate for the lack of a Magic Mastery or Phantom Mastery as Sylas and Evie do have) of a shield and focus DOES NOT make up for 3% critical rate.

Enchants allow stats to be fairly fluid. For example, if you have more defense/crit res than you need, you can slap on two Enthus where you might otherwise have Expeditionary. With that extra bal, you're able to use another Fast instead of Sig. With that extra aspd, you can switch from Righteous to Immoral. The result is 4 crit at the expense of 1300 def, 13 crit res, and 231 att. (Keep in mind an orange lv 90 small shield gives 11-14 crit res, at least 1635 def, and at least 144 str.) If you use Chaotic instead of Immoral, that's 5 crit at the expense of 1300 def, 12 crit res, and 111 att. And this is comparing a crit-infused book with a non-infused shield. So Fiona still comes out way ahead, even ignoring lv 95 shields. For reference, Righteous, Immoral, and Chaotic are all ~15m on West.

Runic focus obviously doesn't have as substantial stats as lv 90/95 small shields, but it's a lv 80 focus (which can be crit- or bal-infused with regular element stones). Arisha is not being left out by not having access to the new spellbooks. She's been left out because the devs haven't given her a lv 90/95 focus.

Weiss_Oswald wrote: »

And about the slot for infusion been had for years on Arisha and Fiona:
Lanns and such complain so much that it is so hard to gear up because Critical infuses are hard to get. Imagine if you had another SUPER RARE infuse to get on your offhand like it is to get on Focus or Shield.

Oh noooo, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to have an extra slot for infusion!!
Just kidding, sign me up. Those complaints are centered around the fact that Lanns rely on crit more than other classes. Lanns wouldn't otherwise be complaining about the difficulty of getting crit infusions more than any other class.

Weiss_Oswald wrote: »

Instead, they're getting a relatively easy to obtain +5 critical rate.
It becomes more expensive to obtain a +2 critical Runic focus or +2 critical shield lvl 90/80 than a +5 critical lvl 95 book.
Talk about Deepening the gap of balance.

Again, runic focus only requires normal element stones, whereas the 95 book will require intermediate stones. Sure, the 95 book has crit as a base stat, so it should be easier to roll a crit infusion, but who's to say a lv 95 focus wouldn't have +1 crit as a base stat? The 95 book itself will have a higher cost since it will require orange mats to craft, and those mats will be expensive since multiple classes will need them, unlike with class-specific mats like shield essences.

Lv 90/95 shields don't have crit as a base stat, but it's a little difficult to sympathize since, again, Fionas come out ahead even without any infusion.

Weiss_Oswald wrote: »

-I didn't ask for an extra infuse slot. I started playing with Arisha, it was a GIVEN to me.

Not asking for it has nothing to do with benefiting from it.

Weiss_Oswald wrote: »

-It's Nexon's fault for not balancing this lack for other characters from the start.

Whose fault it is has nothing to do with benefiting from it.

Weiss_Oswald wrote: »

-Bad balancing is not good balancing (well duh).

Agreed. And I don't disagree that this change is somewhat unfair for Arisha, but your arguments are flawed.

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