[NEW MERCENARIES] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.

Lann Twin Sword rework !

WolfHowl123WolfHowl123
Vindictus Rep: 200
Posts: 2
Member
in Lann
After the change from XE to Premiere Twin Sword Lann is not having a good time. The Stamina drain for his attacks have heavily increased . I know that Hurk and other characters share the same fate but even after two glides i run out of stamina . Nowadays Twin Sword Lann is no fun to play to me anymore and i started to play Vindictus back in 2011 Evie Release in EU. I just hope devCat doesn't forget about the veteran characters and show them some love . ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Comments

  • CloakshireCloakshire
    Vindictus Rep: 4,580
    Posts: 646
    Member
    edited March 18, 2017
    Running out of stamina after just two Glides is an exaggeration. If you're running out of stamina that easily, you're not optimizing your attacks. Sword Lann is all about maximizing your damage while managing your stamina.

    Are you using slashing high at every opportunity?

    Do you have a beserker or zeal enchant?

    What is your maximum stamina?

    Are you mindlessly spamming Slip and Nimble dash when just a slip dash is needed?

    Are you taking advantage of the risky wind buff making your next smash cost no stamina?

    Do you constantly run and halt your stamina regeneration?

    Do you attack continuously and relentlessly, or do you pace yourself once your stamina starts to get low?
  • WolfHowl123WolfHowl123
    Vindictus Rep: 200
    Posts: 2
    Member
    Against enemies who constantly attack, you have to constantly dodge until your enemy leaves an opening for an attack. After dodging you might have time for one attack and your enemy continues to attack and the dodging cycle continues, while you have barely stamina left. I have almost 200 stamina and i am familiar with Lann buffs and Special skills.
    Slashing High gives you additional attack speed and unlimited stamina for 20 seconds but costs you almost half of your SP and it got a 1 minute cooldown.
    I think Twin Sword is not suited for upcoming challeges but that's just my opinion.
  • CloakshireCloakshire
    Vindictus Rep: 4,580
    Posts: 646
    Member
    edited March 19, 2017
    Give me some examples of enemies that constantly attack you in the way that you described. Please do.

    Slashing High does NOT have a 1 minute cooldown. It is only 30 seconds. If you can recover enough SP during your initial Slashing High, you only have to wait 11 seconds before being able to use it again.

    I personally think this is a case of you not being used to Premiere. You'll get better at managing the higher stamina costs with time.
  • BloodAngelBloodAngel
    Vindictus Rep: 1,875
    Posts: 315
    Member
    Don't forgot about (quick) Fury Infusion too which will replenish your stam which is nice against sandbag bosses (pretty much all of s2 now)
  • CloakshireCloakshire
    Vindictus Rep: 4,580
    Posts: 646
    Member
    edited March 19, 2017
    BloodAngel wrote: »
    Don't forgot about (quick) Fury Infusion too which will replenish your stam which is nice against sandbag bosses (pretty much all of s2 now)

    That doesn't apply to this thread as sword lann does not have access to Fury infusion/QFI. That's a skill exclusive to Spears.
  • AequipondiumAequipondium
    Vindictus Rep: 1,965
    Posts: 122
    Member
    Saw the thread title and insta clicked. Now I'm sad.

    Pro tip: When slashing high is still far from availability, don't play aggressively and play "with" the boss instead by using your risky wind buff to nullify stamina costs as much as possible.

    (Of course by this logic why don't we just play sword Vella, but hey not like we have a choice.)
    BloodAngel
  • SefSef
    Vindictus Rep: 1,310
    Posts: 93
    Member
    I wouldn't mind the stamina costs if they gave him back his higher crit damage to offset such high stamina consumption with no way to restore it unlike (only halt it with Windrider). Crits are what Lann is. And while I won't ignore Slashing High as something that does this, it's not a skill unique to Lann.

    In light of this, I can't say I really have any problems with stamina myself. It took some time getting used to but I can easily gather enough SP during an activation of Slashing High to feed it right back into the next cast.

    My main gripe with Lann is, for a 'revamped' character, he really did get the short end of the stick.

    Combing through the patch notes for Sword Lawn and excluding the nice damage buffs (don't know how significant they were at the time and muh deeps lol), he got a whopping 2 QoL changes; the change to Furious and Windrider. Critical Break is both a blessing and a very expensive curse so I'm not really going to count that.

    sXSskbI.png

    Raging Fever later got a fantastic QoL buff in its 100% crits. Just Raging Fever alone has so much potential to add some fantastic combos and depth to Lann's gameplay if they bothered to give him a worthwhile revamp. There's just so much wasted potential in simply enabling Raging Fever to cancel Lann's smashes in the same way as Fiona's Focal Point. Remove the SP cost when using it after a fully charged Gust Sting and/or allow it to be used twice or give Lann a stamina regeneration buff for landing that tedious Gust Sting>RF charge attack.

    And that's just *one* move.


  • SefSef
    Vindictus Rep: 1,310
    Posts: 93
    Member
    edited March 22, 2017
    and how about this guy huh

    gUNO3LK.png

    luul
    BloodAngel
  • BloodAngelBloodAngel
    Vindictus Rep: 1,875
    Posts: 315
    Member
    There are a lot of twin swords reworks that need to happen, Berserker spirit should be gone, there should be no normal attack smash combo (where you press d thinking you're going to proc crit and instead fk yourself with most likely getting hit. Windrider buff should last a little longer as with lower att speed or if the boss i frames you're gonna miss your buff there and it should also give us 100% crit chance, not just an insane crit buff (helps people that don't have as high crit with at least being able to do SOME dps)

    We also need every smash to either do 2 hits or for the 1 hit ones to have a higher crit chance, otherwise there's no reason to use fanning slash or pummel storm.

    just my ideas boys. I have more but I never write them down because I know devcat/nexon gives no fks about what we think and how we feel about the game.
  • SefSef
    Vindictus Rep: 1,310
    Posts: 93
    Member
    edited March 23, 2017
    BloodAngel wrote: »
    I have more but I never write them down because I know devcat/nexon gives no fks about what we think and how we feel about the game.

    Do it anyway. I've given up hope of Lann ever getting the work he really deserves but maybe you'd persuade some more stubborn Lann players that maybe he should get some new stuff.

    idk

    shrug
    BloodAngelXie
  • The_VillainThe_Villain
    Vindictus Rep: 1,550
    Posts: 103
    Member
    What they should do, is give us back the shortly lived revamp that Lann had. After Arisha came out, he had gotten a good rework that made him able to stand on par with both Arisha and Hurk. But he was then given a soft nerf to where his critical damage isn't as intense anymore, as well as reducing the damage of his furies- including Fury No. 7, while also nerfing his critical rate ( at least it feels like it lol). With Delia and Sylas out and being able to do massive amounts of consistent damage, he once again falls behind everyone else. The "constant" Furious buff isn't enough for him, if his chance to get a crit isn't all that great to begin with (there's also risky wind, but that sometimes doesn't help either)- and it'll show in most s3 raids/runs- especially in Neamhain.

    It's weird how out of all the characters that got reworks/revamps, he's the only (Vella kind of did too, but NA got her slight damage nerf + buff along with the revamp) character that got nerfed after his revamp, where as Evie remains completely OP, Hurk was the main culprit that ruined damage scaling, and Karok is insanely good now (though he deserves to be). These characters are also highly mobile too, which means they don't have as hard a time in chasing down bosses that are also highly mobile where as Lann is on the slower slide in terms of just moving around in general. All the other characters (not including Fiona) have a way of keeping up with these bosses:

    Lynn- Little Rat
    Arisha- Diffusion Warp/Shift
    Hurk- High Mobility in general
    Delia- Cosmic Blitz
    Vella- Frost Jack (though keeps distance with chains) / Storm Step + Thunderous Squall combo
    Evie- Flying Sparrow / Blink
    Karok- in combination with decent attack speed and how far his attacks travel, he's also decentl with mobility.
    Kai- Don't even get me started..
    Sylas- Same boat as Kai/Evie/Arisha

    So when you look at what Lann & Fiona are competing against, they get the short end of the stick; as not only do they have to keep up, but the also have to do a bit more for damage to make it feel like you're contributing to party runs/raids. They both heavily rely on scrolls/infusions, making them pretty close to being the most RNG riddled characters. Need both crit and speed (and balance), which the only ES that really give those stats are number ranks- which have a bad success rates, as well as having the chance to break your equipment. Now, I know many characters also rely on the same scrolls, but outside of Lynn, it's not so important for them as it is for Lann and Fiona. You can argue that Slashing High helps with attack speed, but they still need help. I mention Fiona a lot, despite not ever playing her, but she's pretty much in the same boat as Lann- from what I understand.

    There's also the issue of trying to go for a fury, or combo string-smashes in general and having gust sting cancel it out instead which is annoying for both sword variant Lann and Vella.

    All in all, Lann has a higher scale cap compared to most of the other characters that skill alone can't really make up for and doesn't have some sort of utility or niche to justify why he falls behind so hard.

    In case my stats matter:

    Attack: 24.4-25k
    Att Speed: 54
    Crit: 115/116(without furious)
    Def: 10.4k
    Balance: 88-89

    *Sword Lann is the character that got me into playing this game in the first place, and I have little to no interest whatsoever in switching to spears.
    BloodAngel
  • SefSef
    Vindictus Rep: 1,310
    Posts: 93
    Member
    edited March 24, 2017
    So when you look at what Lann & Fiona are competing against, they get the short end of the stick; as not only do they have to keep up, but the also have to do a bit more for damage to make it feel like you're contributing to party runs/raids.

    Would just like to point out that Fiona's mobility is far from bottom tier like Lann's. Her roll distance has been increased ten fold along with being able to use Shield Dash twice (which moves her a considerable distance with a relatively small cooldown of 10? seconds). Add to this the ability to simultaneously block an attack while continuining your own aand buffing the damage and Fiona is a force to be reckoned with. She is most definitely not in the same boat as Lann.
  • The_VillainThe_Villain
    Vindictus Rep: 1,550
    Posts: 103
    Member
    edited March 24, 2017
    Sef wrote: »
    So when you look at what Lann & Fiona are competing against, they get the short end of the stick; as not only do they have to keep up, but the also have to do a bit more for damage to make it feel like you're contributing to party runs/raids.

    Would just like to point out that Fiona's mobility is far from bottom tier like Lann's. Her roll distance has been increased ten fold along with being able to use Shield Dash twice (which moves her a considerable distance with a relatively small cooldown of 10? seconds). Add to this the ability to simultaneously block an attack while continuining your own aand buffing the damage and Fiona is a force to be reckoned with. She is most definitely not in the same boat as Lann.

    Oh, so only Lann gets screwed over in both regards of damage & mobility lol. Sorry for my misconception of Fiona though haha. So yeah, Sword Lann needs a rework. His attacks consume too much stamina, Slashing High and Risky Wind don't really mitigate that. And even if it did, it wouldn't really accumulate to much if he doesn't put out much damage in the first place, so they'd also have to restore some of his damage by buffing either his Critical Damage or restoring the damage of his Gliding + Lightning/Fury No. 7. The maneuverability thing wouldn't really be much of an issue if it felt more rewarding/satisfying to play him, honestly.

    *edited because accidental profanity
    BloodAngel
  • ERRORERROR
    Vindictus Rep: 540
    Posts: 29
    Member
    edited March 25, 2017
    If I don't have a decent spear before the 170 crit cap, I'm quitting.

    Sword lann is just gonna get worse with every update.
  • BloodAngelBloodAngel
    Vindictus Rep: 1,875
    Posts: 315
    Member
    @ERROR fight the good fight and stay firm in the faith bro we need to believe.
  • fewifewnewffewifewnewf
    Vindictus Rep: 430
    Posts: 7
    Member
    RIP my infinity swords with the Dullahan release, with fully optimised gear I believe I only still get around 135 base crit and attack far too low to do any meaningful damage to him
  • SefSef
    Vindictus Rep: 1,310
    Posts: 93
    Member
    Spear Lann's the only way to go now.

    :::^^^)))
  • AerodosAerodos
    Vindictus Rep: 610
    Posts: 23
    Member
    edited October 20, 2017
    :o