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..... wow do people even have a brain, not talking to you (Bowtacojr)
Pretty much, it's painfully clear who did read my actual post and who's just coming in here thinking that I hate new players and want Vindictus to die.
Case in point l m a o.
I wish that I could include a reading quiz about the thread instead of a poll to drive away some of you.
..... wow do people even have a brain, not talking to you (Bowtacojr)
Pretty much, it's painfully clear who did read my actual post and who's just coming in here thinking that I hate new players and want Vindictus to die.
Case in point l m a o.
I wish that I could include a reading quiz about the thread instead of a poll to drive away some of you.
I read your first post just fine tyvm. No need to toss out insults. In your original post, you expressed your opinion about niflheim raids being too much for level 80 players still wearing 70/80 gear. I somewhat agree considering that it's scaled to level 90 now.
You then made a poll asking if we should hide those raids from lower-level players. Hiding the raids would benefit the lower-level players because they would no longer wander into a raid that they're drastically undergeared/skilled for. It also benefits the higher-level players because their experience is not being dragged down by having to carry someone that shouldn't be there in the first place.
I however still disagree about "hiding" them and since no wasn't an option, I made my post giving you my answer and my opinion that it should have been an option. If by hiding, you mean slap a level 90 requirement on the raids, then I would have agreed completely and selected yes.
I'm not here to argue or fan any flames. I simply replied to your original post/poll with my answer.
..... wow do people even have a brain, not talking to you (Bowtacojr)
As typing is a process that requires efferent information to be sent to somatic motor neurons from the integrating centre, that is, the brain, I would assume that all the posters do, in fact, have a brain.
However, thanks for your kind insight and help in the discussion! I look forward to your future comments.
I feel like the Rise update invalidates this claim, considering everything changed with that.
Like one of the other posters said, community suggestions aren't really taken into account - especially ones made on NA forums.
While you might say that some of the RISE changes were from feedback (ex: drop rates), I'd say the developer barely took it into account and just looked at the business standpoint of "what will hook new players?"
Reason I think this is due to how the developer put in the +20 changes, despite heavy negative feedback.
But who knows, the level cap might change in the far future, though definitely not due to community suggestions imo.
People in this thread have already expressed opinions that they don't like the raid or it's rewards, which means the pool of geared players for sub 90s to get lucky to carry them is likely going to be low.
So now we've got new players sitting in boats for 15-20 minutes waiting for strong players to join because they don't know that Succubus Queen doesn't drop anything that a geared player would want to raid for. Sure, they'd be doing the same thing at 90, but they'd at least have the stats to hold their own.
Nothing I can really say to this other than bringing up previous points. I feel like continuing to post will just be a cycle of restating what we've previously said in different ways or finding contradictions in arguments, and that's a waste of time for both of us. Don't really think any of us will budge either.
It was a nice discussion to bring up though I guess.
Just to point out. They give like lv 70 folks (maybe it is 75 or 80 rewords now, can't remember) 2 copper bracelets + stones. But they can't even put the stones into the bracelets till they do at least 1 nilf. So what do you expect, the game basically says go run that content way earlier than when these folks have even started buying their own gear.
Just to point out. They give like lv 70 folks (maybe it is 75 or 80 rewords now, can't remember) 2 copper bracelets + stones. But they can't even put the stones into the bracelets till they do at least 1 nilf. So what do you expect, the game basically says go run that content way earlier than when these folks have even started buying their own gear.
This is more of a balancing issue left over from an older update, before Nifl was buffed and 90 was added, so it'd be best to adjust the quest to where players don't have to do a Nifl. raid before bracelet crafting can begin.
Even with your bias poll wording, you're still losing the argument. I'm always going to side with more choices, not less. If you don't want people less than lvl 90 on your boat, that is your choice. You can make that choice for yourself. Please stop trying to force YOUR choices as a mandate for everyone else.
It has nothing to do with enforcing my mandate or whatever you're thinking, it's got everything to do with the way the raid is balanced.
There really isn't anything to argue, if you're under 90, there's no way you're going to be doing any damage to any of those bosses, unless you're gearing with 80 gear, which is just a waste. Players shouldn't be able to do them untill 90 so that they have the chance to get gear that will actually let them participate, instead of doing little to no actual damage.
Go grab three level 80s, or anyone under 90 and do a succubus queen, you'll come back here and agree with me.
Also, that comment about "more choices" is just ridiculous, having access to higher level bosses before you have the gear for it isn't fun, new player will die fast and get frustrated, and veteran players will be left to pick up their slack. Try and think a little further ahead before you just blindly disagree with posts.
Here's why I disagree with your viewpoint. I was one of those players below 90 when they made the change to RISE. These bosses were not too difficult to handle. You make it sound like, if you're below lvl 90, it will take 45 mins to complete this raid. Maybe you just was unlucky in getting a group who were not experienced in this raid. Before I hit 90, this was one of the few raids I could do that still offered a challenge. I'm not in favor of taking that away. I don't know who made you the arbiter to decide what is or isn't fun. Some people want a challenge. If you are below lvl 90, this game offers very little of that. So again, let each player decide what's fun for them just as you decide what's fun for you.
Before I hit 90, this was one of the few raids I could do that still offered a challenge.
They got buffed with the Rise update, so they're more similar to the 90 raids, except with a punishment for multiple deaths. If anything, they should be brought up to the proper level to reflect that.
I don't know who made you the arbiter to decide what is or isn't fun.
I don't know why you're being so dramatic over it, the raids got buffed, and new players are unlikely to be able to account for that gear wise, so just let them hold off till 90 where they'll get some gear for cheap, or even free, that allows them to fully participate in a raid.
I think you, and just about everyone else in here, are forgetting that most new players will only have +3ish weapons till they start gearing properly at 90. There's no reason for them to have anything better, it isn't necessary, so they shouldn't worry about raids like this till they can invest properly in the gear to allow them to hold their own, thus we should raids the level req.
You should've mentioned how Niflheim has been changed post revamp in the first post with actual numbers. The info is not widely available and I bet half of the people here are still thinking about the no attack cap version of the raid that only takes 5 minutes.
Not even sure this needs to be said, but the placement of the Niflheim tab in Colhen and Rocheste is extremely misleading for new players. Compared to literally every other boss under the 90 raids, these raids are impossible for anyone with 70-80 gear, so why is it even open to people starting at 80?
I know some people like to carry newbies through hard raids, but even with one or two endgame players, this raid takes forever, and I think really needs a complete party of competently skilled and geared players to be at least fun, otherwise it's a 20+ minute slog.
Nifleheim came out before level 90 **** did, so? That means it is level 70-80; I'd even argue its even meant for level 60 geared peeps at one point.
As long as one doesn't accept their weakness they will never overcome and overcoming it through dishonorable means makes the stigma worse.
*cough nippleheim is the right pronunciation *cough succybus
Before I hit 90, this was one of the few raids I could do that still offered a challenge.
They got buffed with the Rise update, so they're more similar to the 90 raids, except with a punishment for multiple deaths. If anything, they should be brought up to the proper level to reflect that.
I don't know who made you the arbiter to decide what is or isn't fun.
I don't know why you're being so dramatic over it, the raids got buffed, and new players are unlikely to be able to account for that gear wise, so just let them hold off till 90 where they'll get some gear for cheap, or even free, that allows them to fully participate in a raid.
I think you, and just about everyone else in here, are forgetting that most new players will only have +3ish weapons till they start gearing properly at 90. There's no reason for them to have anything better, it isn't necessary, so they shouldn't worry about raids like this till they can invest properly in the gear to allow them to hold their own, thus we should raids the level req.
Just because I disagree with you and just because I state that you cannot objectively decide what's fun for other people doesn't make it dramatic. You make a lot of assumptions about what other players are capable of (gear or skill wise). This is not true because I've seen plenty of below lvl 90 players after RISE who are well geared. There are a lot of good armor and weapons floating around for cheap.
However, even if I your assumptions were true, I disagree that removing difficult content from lower lvl players will make them better. As you said, there is no reason for them to have anything better, it isn't necessary. That is a direct result of the lack of difficult content below lvl 90. I get that it's a tough raid for lower lvl players. That's a good thing. I remember when we had a Hero Weeping Queen or Hero Irukul. Those bosses could 1hitKO me. I failed them more times than I won but the experience made me a MUCH better skilled player. I've learned not to rely on gear.
I get it. You don't want to carry lower tier players. You don't think they are up to the challenge and that's fine. Taking away challenging content won't make them better players though. I'm sorry that their learning curve is a drag on you but no one is forcing you to carry them.
Comments
Case in point l m a o.
I wish that I could include a reading quiz about the thread instead of a poll to drive away some of you.
I read your first post just fine tyvm. No need to toss out insults. In your original post, you expressed your opinion about niflheim raids being too much for level 80 players still wearing 70/80 gear. I somewhat agree considering that it's scaled to level 90 now.
You then made a poll asking if we should hide those raids from lower-level players. Hiding the raids would benefit the lower-level players because they would no longer wander into a raid that they're drastically undergeared/skilled for. It also benefits the higher-level players because their experience is not being dragged down by having to carry someone that shouldn't be there in the first place.
I however still disagree about "hiding" them and since no wasn't an option, I made my post giving you my answer and my opinion that it should have been an option. If by hiding, you mean slap a level 90 requirement on the raids, then I would have agreed completely and selected yes.
I'm not here to argue or fan any flames. I simply replied to your original post/poll with my answer.
However, thanks for your kind insight and help in the discussion! I look forward to your future comments.
I mean... This sure felt like an attack but 8)
Like one of the other posters said, community suggestions aren't really taken into account - especially ones made on NA forums.
While you might say that some of the RISE changes were from feedback (ex: drop rates), I'd say the developer barely took it into account and just looked at the business standpoint of "what will hook new players?"
Reason I think this is due to how the developer put in the +20 changes, despite heavy negative feedback.
But who knows, the level cap might change in the far future, though definitely not due to community suggestions imo.
Nothing I can really say to this other than bringing up previous points. I feel like continuing to post will just be a cycle of restating what we've previously said in different ways or finding contradictions in arguments, and that's a waste of time for both of us. Don't really think any of us will budge either.
It was a nice discussion to bring up though I guess.
This is more of a balancing issue left over from an older update, before Nifl was buffed and 90 was added, so it'd be best to adjust the quest to where players don't have to do a Nifl. raid before bracelet crafting can begin.
If only they'd use it.
Here's why I disagree with your viewpoint. I was one of those players below 90 when they made the change to RISE. These bosses were not too difficult to handle. You make it sound like, if you're below lvl 90, it will take 45 mins to complete this raid. Maybe you just was unlucky in getting a group who were not experienced in this raid. Before I hit 90, this was one of the few raids I could do that still offered a challenge. I'm not in favor of taking that away. I don't know who made you the arbiter to decide what is or isn't fun. Some people want a challenge. If you are below lvl 90, this game offers very little of that. So again, let each player decide what's fun for them just as you decide what's fun for you.
I don't even think you have 45 minutes to do the Nifl. raids.
They got buffed with the Rise update, so they're more similar to the 90 raids, except with a punishment for multiple deaths. If anything, they should be brought up to the proper level to reflect that.
I don't know why you're being so dramatic over it, the raids got buffed, and new players are unlikely to be able to account for that gear wise, so just let them hold off till 90 where they'll get some gear for cheap, or even free, that allows them to fully participate in a raid.
I think you, and just about everyone else in here, are forgetting that most new players will only have +3ish weapons till they start gearing properly at 90. There's no reason for them to have anything better, it isn't necessary, so they shouldn't worry about raids like this till they can invest properly in the gear to allow them to hold their own, thus we should raids the level req.
Devcat sucks at balancing. Period.
Nifleheim came out before level 90 **** did, so? That means it is level 70-80; I'd even argue its even meant for level 60 geared peeps at one point.
As long as one doesn't accept their weakness they will never overcome and overcoming it through dishonorable means makes the stigma worse.
*cough nippleheim is the right pronunciation *cough succybus
I like how everyone these days associates Niflheim with SQ. Your friendly cancer provider teleporting scumbag Blood Lord needs some love too.
Just because I disagree with you and just because I state that you cannot objectively decide what's fun for other people doesn't make it dramatic. You make a lot of assumptions about what other players are capable of (gear or skill wise). This is not true because I've seen plenty of below lvl 90 players after RISE who are well geared. There are a lot of good armor and weapons floating around for cheap.
However, even if I your assumptions were true, I disagree that removing difficult content from lower lvl players will make them better. As you said, there is no reason for them to have anything better, it isn't necessary. That is a direct result of the lack of difficult content below lvl 90. I get that it's a tough raid for lower lvl players. That's a good thing. I remember when we had a Hero Weeping Queen or Hero Irukul. Those bosses could 1hitKO me. I failed them more times than I won but the experience made me a MUCH better skilled player. I've learned not to rely on gear.
I get it. You don't want to carry lower tier players. You don't think they are up to the challenge and that's fine. Taking away challenging content won't make them better players though. I'm sorry that their learning curve is a drag on you but no one is forcing you to carry them.