[NEW MERCENARIES] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
Sad that we won't be able to do raids with 8 players
s3 raids are still 8 man. The problem IMHO is that s1/s2 raids are no longer raids and will not drop seals....this will make it much harder to seal farm, especially for new players.
For a director who states he wants to get more people playing and fewer people leaving, this update has so much wrong with it.
Enhancement is the least fun, least engaging, most stressful, most disliked part of Vindictus. It always has been. Its only competitor is enchantment. For players who make it to max level, enhancement is one of the leading of not the leading reason why they quit. It's a bit of a problem for the maintenance and growth of your game when its two primary means of progression are also the primary means of making spending players quit. The problem is that enhancement is too demanding and too punishing. In the pursuit of becoming stronger, you can lose everything. It seems the new "solution" to this problem is to make enhancement impossibly demanding while not only keeping the same crushing punishments for failure, but making them more frequent. How does this help Vindictus at all?
Even if we solve the problem of people quitting prior to level 30, in this state people would quit at 80 instead. Once you see that unscalable gear wall before you, why continue? "You spent how much money to get +17?" It seems the basic problem that RISE is attacking is that Vindictus does not offer enough bait to get new players hooked into its circular and alienating monetization scheme. But 30 or 80 - it doesn't matter, you're still not getting new players to a high enough level to start caring to the point where they will spend money. This update does little to fix that and much to worsen it. Once they start selling 13-15 runes, and they will, we'll have reached the point where we are now paying to lose more often than we lost when it was free. And once we as customers accept this and buy into it, we show that we are not to be respected as consumers and are comfortable with being exploited through the most basic of profit-inflating schemes.
Maybe that's what we want. Only sales numbers will tell the answer to that, and I do not know the future. What I do know is that if Vindictus' problem is that it cannot get new players to spend money on it, making our money buy even less than it is now is not the winning long-term solution.
More personally, the saddest part of this update is that it will turn Vindictus into something I can no longer enjoy. After so many years upon years, I will have to say goodbye! So, I guess you can say I am not excited for the RISE update. I see far more falling than rising.
Well put; sadly, this seems to have started becoming the norm. Even well-respected companies like Blizzard have gotten in on RNG boxes for freaking Overwatch. ArcheAge relaunched and major content creators on YouTube were more than happy to rush back and say all was forgiven--TRION literally milked them for every dollar they could under that ridiculous system, then switched to how the game likely should have been at launch and got players right back. Blade and Soul sold it's expensive RNG boxes with tons of items players needed, then the week after dramatically reduced material costs and included more mats for new leveling players; guess how many players walked away after being robbed that way? Very few.
It used to be that only Eastern publishers could count on players in those regions to throw more money after bad, but it appears that people everywhere are open to being fleeced if given the opportunity.
Like several others have already said, the additional damage of high enhance weapons is the biggest problem with this update. This, combined with the facts that if you do less than 3%(?) you only get a single core and the ability to set boat requirements means that those without gear will be at a great disadvantage. If you have 2 or 3 people in your party with +17/18 weapons it doesn't matter how well you play with your +10, it's possible that you'll do less than 3%. This imo is unhealthy in two aspects, not only does it chase away newbies and casual players but it also greatly encourages goldbuying.
The other changes I'm generally ambivalent on but I don't see the point of making story progression even faster. It seems like a case of addressing the symptom but not tackling the root of the problem. Newbies were quitting in the early levels because those levels were simple facerolls with nothing interesting happening and this update doesn't change that. If anything the early game needs more engaging solo content and skills need to unlock faster to make players adjust to the characters more smoothly.
I think you're the one that misunderstood here. Notice how I said "extended attack pattern." This implies that the boss is locking itself into an attack that will last long enough for you to drink one or two potions and/or repair. I'll agree that it's not unusual for a boss to go after someone that's repairing/drinking potions as that's how their AI is programmed, but as long as you memorize the boss's attacks, you'd be surprised what you can get away with behind their backs. You shouldn't have to worry about them coming after your as long as you play your cards right.
Cost benefit ratio still too low, which is why pretty much nobody does this. Most people will pick the optimal choice in any situation...the fact that most people don't drink pots outside of nif/neam means it's not optimal to drink pots.
This assumes that the player in question is potting after every hit they take. An intelligent player will instead notice where they stack up against a boss and create a mental HP threshold that they try to keep themselves above & only pot when they go below it. I personally like to keep my HP just high enough to where I won't die the next time I get hit. Yes my DPS may suffer slightly because I took an extra 4 seconds to heal up, but keeping myself away from death is preventing me from lowering the party's dps. You say that most people would rather die and get their HP restored to half through a rez? This is just sloppy play and a sign of selfish people that only care about their DPS and not the group as a whole. They're the one's that make the run take longer overall. I'll put your logic against mine & you tell me which one results in more dps lost.
DPS lost from a drinking potion every so often?
OR
(DPS lost from being dead & waiting for a rez + DPS lost from another party member having to stop and revive you).
I wasn't suggesting that players should pot after every hit, that was an example used to compare hp restored via one pot at the level where one pot would be able to negate one hit from the boss (roughly).
Whether you consider it sloppy or not, the fact is that outside of perma death raids, pretty much everyone would rather die for a free heal than drink pots. Feel free to convince players ingame that it is sloppy, I can all but guarantee that you will be ignored.
It's actually faster to get ressed for what is roughly a 50% hp heal (don't remember the exact numbers off hand) rather than drink multiple pots, each of which must be timed when the boss is "busy" and not focused on you. Even if we are comparing 1 feather to 1 pot, the only time the party would lose DPS is if the person being ressed does lower DPS than the person using the feather.
Sound logic speaks for iteself tyvm. And let's be honest, how often are you immediately revived in a pug? While I make it a priority to revive someone asap, most of the time you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs b/c everyone is too focused on "getting that big dps number." Gimme a break. This is a cancerous mentality imo & I wish this game could go back to its roots where people didn't care about dps but rather working together to conquer tough bosses.
It varies a lot per party obviously, but the system encourages revives more than drinking pots outside of nif/neam. If the rest of the party is content with not ressing anyone, well that's their issue really, they are the ones who have to fight the boss for longer. In my experience, its usually not a problem to get ressed within a few seconds.
Again with the whole focus on DPS. The whole benefit of Merc pots was that they could be used without an animation & we don't need the normal potions gaining that benefit. You say that without the animation, players would have a reason to drink pots. So by that statement, there's no reason to use them as long as an animation exists? Uh.. How about preventing your death so you don't lower other party member's dps by making someone come rez you?
The majority of the playerbase obviously doesn't agree with you on this point, or drinking pots outside of nif/neam would be the norm (which it is not).
I don't see how it actively discourages people from drinking unless you're referring to this whole "loss of dps," argument. Again, see my logic compared to yours about dps loss in a party.
Next time you do raids, ask the people in your party why they aren't drinking pots and are dying.
This part was unnecessary and I'm just gonna chalk it up to you being cocky thinking you had a sound argument that couldn't be debated. I'll admit that I do have a "git good," mentality about things here, but that's because back when I started Vin, you had to git good to even play the game. Then again, I'll gladly wear my git gud mentality over the mentality of a snarky elitist whose only concern is their DPS.
I was trying to illustrate that the majority's views are very different from yours. The majority doesn't believe in drinking pots outside of nif/neam and will react very badly to any attempt by a party member trying to get them to do so.
The point I was trying to make was that most players don't believe it's the optimal choice to drink pots outside of perma death raids, and removing the animation would have helped to change that.
1. Scale up the Regular/Fine/Superior Pots from 450/750/1100 to 750/1500/3500.
2. Make the current potions % based instead: 20%, 45%, and 65% heals on each potion respectively
3. Time to introduce Exquisite HP potions & Fine Life Erg Crystals!
You could make potions heal more, but most people still would not drink pots outside of perma death raids simply because getting ressed = free heal. As long as most players do not believe that it is in their best interest to drink pots outside of perma death raids, they will not do so. You can either lower the bar to drink pots (make it easier, such as removing the animation) and/or make it necessary to drink pots (introduce perma death to all raids, remove the free heal, etc), but the latter is likely to result in massive backlash as most players will not be able to adapt. Derpcat simply went with the easiest option available, which was to make things easier for everyone. But because they wanted to mitigate backlash from +20 and other dumb stuff, they backpedaled on this and in the end, we get nothing that fixes the issue because derpcat won't spend substantial time/money on revamping pots.
Edit : Just saw that repair animations are still being removed, so thats a good thing IMHO.
Now to actually answer the question this thread asks... Am I looking forward to the rise update. For the most part yes. I'm just not a fan of the changes that are geared towards the game babying the player.
Unfortunately, the game population has shifted so that the average player is willing to do a lot less than the initial "hardcore" playerbase. Making the game easier is probably necessary to try and get new players to stay. I remember back when roch/drags was end game, people actually put in effort to figure out how to do roch breaks. Even when s2 was out, people put in effort to figure out how to do things like bark/kraken efficiently. But now, most new players struggle with something like panth even if they have level 90 gear and they won't touch practice mode with a ten foot long pole.. It's a whole different player base now. I've pretty much given up on trying to get new players to end game because the vast majority will simply give up because the game is "too hard".
From reading your counterarguments and opinions, I don't think it's right to just assume that everyone thinks the same way as you, nor do I think it's right for you to speak on the behalf of the majority of the playerbase in regards to their mentality of using pots/not using pots. True, using potions isn't as effective as getting that ~50% hp gain from getting feathered. But not everyone is going to feather you right away when you die; most of the time, from what I see, feathering someone takes at least the time it takes to drink a few pots, if not more, depending on how far from you that they died.
I honestly think that people don't use potions because like a few people have already said, the hp gain is just too low with how high of hp we have right now. Instead of making things easier than they already are, having hp potions heal % hp would probably give more an incentive to use them in battles/raids. Or even having those redeemer potions be potions we can use in raids; with hp pot prof r3, that's 4800 hp, which is more than half the hp an average player has, thus making the "wait to be rezzed instead of potting because lazy to get hp" argument be ineffective.
I'm glad that the hp pot changes aren't happening, there's already so much babying as is.
From reading your counterarguments and opinions, I don't think it's right to just assume that everyone thinks the same way as you, nor do I think it's right for you to speak on the behalf of the majority of the playerbase in regards to their mentality of using pots/not using pots.
I was honestly going to say something along these very same lines. After thumbing through all of the RISE threads, I think Ifound every instance that this potion animation removal is mentioned. Out of all the opinions that have been put out there, all but two are directly negative about this change for a similar reason if not the same. The remaining two are comprised of a mixed feelings opinion, and Q2's positive opinion about it. I was going to happily quote every single one of these in my reply to Question2 and make it known that he/she shouldn't speak for the majority unless it can be backed by irrefutable proof. I'm limited on what I can do on a phone at work, but I will be posting an actual reply when I get home. I'll admit I do agree with his/her reply on a few notes but I'll touch on that later in my actual response.
I've heard they've put s3 scaled hero mode versions of old raids.
I think it's starting to turn ok. Just the matter of the insane AD changes that needs to be dialed back and I'd like to see enhancing capped back to 15. They should either increase the success rates more than current or remove the penalties and include failstacks if they want to keep the success rates, not both.
As for the whole potting vs. res thing, not potting in favor of being ressed is just incredibly selfish. You're asking other people to not dps just so you can get your big % at the end. Like Cloakshire, I also do have an HP threshold for when I will start using pots and am very against the removal of pot animation.
As for the whole potting vs. res thing, not potting in favor of being ressed is just incredibly selfish.
I have a few new "friends" who do this and I just don't res them. Which leads to me not playing with them pretty much since they just alt-tab out after not being ressed. So I guess "friend" is a rather generous title.
Cost benefit ratio still too low, which is why pretty much nobody does this. Most people will pick the optimal choice in any situation...the fact that most people don't drink pots outside of nif/neam means it's not optimal to drink pots.
The cost to benefit ratio of potting may be too low, but that doesn't mean it's not optimal to drink pots. I will say that the cost/benefit ratio IS low when you're focusing on yourself alone and not taking the party as a whole into consideration. And I'm probably gonna repeat this line a few times in this reply, but saying "most people," and "nobody," doesn't make it true. You can claim the majority is behind your individual opinion all you want, but I know this isn't the case.
I wasn't suggesting that players should pot after every hit, that was an example used to compare hp restored via one pot at the level where one pot would be able to negate one hit from the boss (roughly).
Nowhere in my reply did I say that you suggested that players "should," do that. I don't twist your words around so don't twist mine around.
Whether you consider it sloppy or not, the fact is that outside of perma death raids, pretty much everyone would rather die for a free heal than drink pots. Feel free to convince players ingame that it is sloppy, I can all but guarantee that you will be ignored.
Again, you're speaking for the masses. This is a bad habit that only hurts the credibility of your claims & I know I'm not the only one that noticed you have this habit. I will still carry my opinion that it is a sloppy way to play & it would seem that a few other people who have replied to this thread are in agreement with me. Notice how I said "a few," and didn't claim the whole playerbase?
It's actually faster to get ressed for what is roughly a 50% hp heal (don't remember the exact numbers off hand) rather than drink multiple pots, each of which must be timed when the boss is "busy" and not focused on you. Even if we are comparing 1 feather to 1 pot, the only time the party would lose DPS is if the person being ressed does lower DPS than the person using the feather.
It is only faster if you're immediately revived, as in within 2 or 3 seconds after you die. It seems that timing when the boss is "busy" is too much of a challenge for you. It's not hard at all especially when you're in an 8man raid. Not to mention that a bunch of bosses have moments when they're invincivle IE: Havan's Aoe, Lakoria Underground, Regina in the air OHKO'ing someone, Lugh in the air. Potting in these situations result in no dps lost.
Saying that the only time a party would lose DPS is if the person being revived does lower dps than the person using the feather is just a ludicrous claim. It doesn't matter how much damage a person is doing. Damage is damage. If you die, you're not doing damage. If someone has to stop attacking, and come revive you, then they're losing dps. So two people have lost dps and in an 8 man raid, that's 1/4 of the party that's not dps'ing. Again, the dps lost from drinking a potion doesn't outweigh the lost dps of one person dead/another having to revive. It's not that complicated to understand. You need to be more considerate of your fellow party members.
It varies a lot per party obviously, but the system encourages revives more than drinking pots outside of nif/neam. If the rest of the party is content with not ressing anyone, well that's their issue really, they are the ones who have to fight the boss for longer. In my experience, its usually not a problem to get ressed within a few seconds.
Usually not a problem to get rez'd within a few seconds? This is the case some of the time, but other times, you'll die while up against the boss and you cannot be immediately revived due to the lack of an opening. Allow me to pose this question to you. You make it seem like you're picked up rather quickly if you die. How quickly do you pick up someone else if they're dead? If you're the type of player that doesn't pot because of a dps obsessed epeen, you don't seem like you'd be the type to sacrifice some if your dps to revive someone either. Am I wrong? Do you prioritize the life of another above your dps or not? Or will you only revive someone who's strong while you let the weaker players hug the floor?
The majority of the playerbase obviously doesn't agree with you on this point, or drinking pots outside of nif/neam would be the norm (which it is not).
Again claiming the majority. I view this line as invalid b/c I don't see survey results of the entire playerbase.
Next time you do raids, ask the people in your party why they aren't drinking pots and are dying.
I don't need to ask this question to the people in my parties b/c I typically see people drinking potions every so often. There may be a few people that are refusing the drink potions and dying as a result, but after 3 feathers, they're staying on the floor as far as I'm concerned. Maybe they'll learn a lesson.
I was trying to illustrate that the majority's views are very different from yours. The majority doesn't believe in drinking pots outside of nif/neam and will react very badly to any attempt by a party member trying to get them to do so.
The point I was trying to make was that most players don't believe it's the optimal choice to drink pots outside of perma death raids, and removing the animation would have helped to change that.
You could make potions heal more, but most people still would not drink pots outside of perma death raids simply because getting ressed = free heal. As long as most players do not believe that it is in their best interest to drink pots outside of perma death raids, they will not do so. You can either lower the bar to drink pots (make it easier, such as removing the animation) and/or make it necessary to drink pots (introduce perma death to all raids, remove the free heal, etc), but the latter is likely to result in massive backlash as most players will not be able to adapt. Derpcat simply went with the easiest option available, which was to make things easier for everyone. But because they wanted to mitigate backlash from +20 and other dumb stuff, they backpedaled on this and in the end, we get nothing that fixes the issue because derpcat won't spend substantial time/money on revamping pots.
Oh so you're a mind reader now and know people still wouldn't use potions if they were made to heal more? Or is this just you reflecting your opinion off of the majority?
Unfortunately, the game population has shifted so that the average player is willing to do a lot less than the initial "hardcore" playerbase. Making the game easier is probably necessary to try and get new players to stay. I remember back when roch/drags was end game, people actually put in effort to figure out how to do roch breaks. Even when s2 was out, people put in effort to figure out how to do things like bark/kraken efficiently. But now, most new players struggle with something like panth even if they have level 90 gear and they won't touch practice mode with a ten foot long pole.. It's a whole different player base now. I've pretty much given up on trying to get new players to end game because the vast majority will simply give up because the game is "too hard".
I believe that the reason the average population has shifted is because they've made so many changes to the game that make it too easy. You say that new players struggle with something like panth even with lvl 90 gear. I think that they struggle because the game leading up to raids like that aren't challenging. They lack the skill that they could have developed and because of this, they hit a brick wall. The game all of a sudden demands skill and b/c it wasn't cultivated and developed over time, the task of developing it all at once is too daunting of a task. They either leave at this point or they turn to OP gear, but once seeing the gear's cost, they leave. This wouldn't be a problem if the game's early stages were tweaked up to train the newer players so that their skill would increase naturally over time & not be demanded after not being developed. This is why I'm not a fan of changes that baby the player through the game. Making it easier to level up and progress just increases the amount of people that will eventually hit this aforementioned brick wall. Removing the potion/repair animations are just another way to baby the player & I'm not the only one that thinks so. I also don't see anyone aside from you that likes this change Question2.
I think the greater problem with the update is the deleted animation for consumable items, enhanced armor giving additional damage, "swagger resistance", and S1, S2 Raids becoming 4 man normal run. Also, me not getting +15 for 7 years
Most of the other changes are very good, though some are kind of eh. Like the removal of the potion/repair animations. Just why? At least you had to think about when and where you're gonna stand around to repair/heal, I guess they want the game to be more brain dead?
I agree with you on your enhancement complaints, but I don't like the way potions/consumables are being dealt with at all. I liked the fact that if you decided to drink/repair you had to take a risk for it. It made the game at least somewhat more challenging in that you should learn a boss before you decided for certain that you were safe to use a consumable. Now everything is a merc potion...
Honestly, even with +15s having a 10% edge on a +10 it still feels like a crutch using them. Having a 100% edge is way overboard (lets just focus on stuff that's already out there and not even get into the cancer of even higher enhancements). Combine that instapots, instarepairs and built in flinch resistance.... I just don't see the fun.
To tell the truth, the update comes with so many good things that we already saw in the clip. But It has some problems too.
What are bad here:
1. Removing the animation for drinking potions and repairing. I say its a step backward for an action game. Drink while running takes penalty. Stand and drink right way for the bonus effect. Same as repairing. The game already has its own way to deal with situations. It makes players watch their backs and think what they can do in a battle not a mindless one. And its so right for a battle like Neamhain
Sad that we won't be able to do raids with 8 players
s3 raids are still 8 man. The problem IMHO is that s1/s2 raids are no longer raids and will not drop seals....this will make it much harder to seal farm, especially for new players.
Season 3 Raids become 4 players too, except for Neamhain as most already knows. See ya.
If my +14 swords make it to 15 I'll try out rise, if they don't I won't. I stuck with Vindi over other f2p kmmo's I've gotten into BECAUSE the enhancement system and cash shop were pretty fair (20 bucks of enhancement runes can usually get you +10, which is all you REALLY need). Vindi's cash shop being mostly cosmetic and NOT pay to win, in conjunction with the pretty good combat, were the selling points for me. I'm certainly not going to invest money into +15 runes. Even if my swords do happen to make it to 15, I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy a game where I'm practically an order of magnitude stronger than everyone who doesn't 15. If nexon feels like the game is too flooded with 15's, maybe they should considering releasing new gear more often? Like, my weapons are Regina and Regina has been out for almost two years now. People were bound to make some 15's eventually.
The people saying, "I'm not someone who needs the entitlement of a high enhance weapon so this update doesn't bother me."
You're the ones that this will probably hurt the most. The casuals and the scrubs will go in with their +10 weapons and do 2% damage against the +18/+19 or the other three players and receive one drop.
Have fun with your Eochaid toenail. Yes, singular, TOENAIL.
The people saying, "I'm not someone who needs the entitlement of a high enhance weapon so this update doesn't bother me."
You're the ones that this will probably hurt the most. The casuals and the scrubs will go in with their +10 weapons and do 2% damage against the +18/+19 or the other three players and receive one drop.
Have fun with your Eochaid toenail. Yes, singular, TOENAIL.
Vip, VVIP, and Luk blessings? With how easy it is to get VIP service through the AP shop, people can at least get two cores & the drop rate of purple and oranges have been dramatically increased. I'm not sure what a dramatic increase is in terms of percentage numbers to devcat though.
I'm not a fan of this new drop rate system but the most we can do is just voice our opinions & wait and see what happens.
You're the ones that this will probably hurt the most. The casuals and the scrubs will go in with their +10 weapons and do 2% damage against the +18/+19 or the other three players and receive one drop.
Have fun with your Eochaid toenail. Yes, singular, TOENAIL.
You really believe there will be many +18/19s? Almost all the +15s out there are perma bound, when they release the rise content they can't be enhanced further since you only get 1 boom now. The few lv 90 +15s that weren't boomed are going to go up in worth like crazy, and 14% odds to manage a +16 from a +15 is not good. (Even with 8 +15s you would have ~30% chance of booming them all...)
That said there is even more incentive to always boom your weapon and armor, and the sad part now is that lv 95 gear is going to be crazy expensive. Don't even know if I will bother scrolling anything less than ~+13 armor. (Goal will likely be to boom 5 of each type and only reclaim the best one assuming it even got close to where you are content to spend a lot more gold on something you can't sell.)
And lets be honest <2% is going to be tough on almost every content. (Remember at most you are going to have 8 man parties now.)
It just means running with alts or being carried by a lv 95 in low level content isn't going to be advantageous for drops.
That said I don't know what boss drops you will even want for low lvl content anymore?
Honestly I see this entire update worse than a wash. Sure it is nice they revamped early content... does that mean I am going to play any more low level content... not unless there is a lvling event. And sadly now it just took away 2/3rds of the "end game" content we have right now.
Firstly, there is a lot of good and also a lot of bad things happening to vindi. I personally think that having a +20 enhancement is a joke. its extremely hard nowadays to get a +12 let a lone getting to 20, but on the positive note, i do like the fact you can't gamble a weapon that you buy back.
Vindictus is getting Lazy? quick drink pots, faster runs, quick endings, able to join any map from any board, quick story finishing... etc
Are they taking away the small things that a lot of people find fun? I like exploring new areas. when malina came out it was awesome. people are now going to sit in colhen and do everything from there. Is it nexon getting lazy or are the players?
why remove animations and then give us cooldown times? this to me ruins the visual side of the game.
Why allow people to sit in one spot and complete stories? yes it can be a little tedious running all over the place to complete the missions but that is all part of the game, its not like we are playing a massive MMO game where we have to travel through dungeons to see people.
i find the removal of this to be silly and its making it easier for nexon to do updates, whats next? text base combat instead of fighting?
Why are they stopping even more titles? the game used to be enjoyable to people because of the farming. either scrolls or titles but then they removed stats from most titles then they removed most scroll farms. now people are just doing raids all the time, raid raid then log off, there is little farming left.
If my +14 swords make it to 15 I'll try out rise, if they don't I won't. I stuck with Vindi over other f2p kmmo's I've gotten into BECAUSE the enhancement system and cash shop were pretty fair (20 bucks of enhancement runes can usually get you +10, which is all you REALLY need). Vindi's cash shop being mostly cosmetic and NOT pay to win, in conjunction with the pretty good combat, were the selling points for me. I'm certainly not going to invest money into +15 runes. Even if my swords do happen to make it to 15, I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy a game where I'm practically an order of magnitude stronger than everyone who doesn't 15. If nexon feels like the game is too flooded with 15's, maybe they should considering releasing new gear more often? Like, my weapons are Regina and Regina has been out for almost two years now. People were bound to make some 15's eventually.
Eh put both my +12 chains and +14 swords on the anvil tonight after reaching the 50 neam clear benchmark, both fails, bringing me to 0/4 lifetime +15 attempts. I would have just stayed with my 14's forever this time, but since 15 is such a huge threshold in the upcoming patch, and I wouldn't have the opportunity to upgrade the swords post patch (they've boomed before), I felt like I was going to need to soon. So there we have it, the already way too punishing enhancement system is getting worse, and the fair cash shop is becoming much less fair, so farewell Vindi. Your combat and bosses were unique and fun for a while, but I've played games with +20 cash shops before, and I'm not falling for this trap again.
Comments
s3 raids are still 8 man. The problem IMHO is that s1/s2 raids are no longer raids and will not drop seals....this will make it much harder to seal farm, especially for new players.
Well put; sadly, this seems to have started becoming the norm. Even well-respected companies like Blizzard have gotten in on RNG boxes for freaking Overwatch. ArcheAge relaunched and major content creators on YouTube were more than happy to rush back and say all was forgiven--TRION literally milked them for every dollar they could under that ridiculous system, then switched to how the game likely should have been at launch and got players right back. Blade and Soul sold it's expensive RNG boxes with tons of items players needed, then the week after dramatically reduced material costs and included more mats for new leveling players; guess how many players walked away after being robbed that way? Very few.
It used to be that only Eastern publishers could count on players in those regions to throw more money after bad, but it appears that people everywhere are open to being fleeced if given the opportunity.
The other changes I'm generally ambivalent on but I don't see the point of making story progression even faster. It seems like a case of addressing the symptom but not tackling the root of the problem. Newbies were quitting in the early levels because those levels were simple facerolls with nothing interesting happening and this update doesn't change that. If anything the early game needs more engaging solo content and skills need to unlock faster to make players adjust to the characters more smoothly.
From reading your counterarguments and opinions, I don't think it's right to just assume that everyone thinks the same way as you, nor do I think it's right for you to speak on the behalf of the majority of the playerbase in regards to their mentality of using pots/not using pots. True, using potions isn't as effective as getting that ~50% hp gain from getting feathered. But not everyone is going to feather you right away when you die; most of the time, from what I see, feathering someone takes at least the time it takes to drink a few pots, if not more, depending on how far from you that they died.
I honestly think that people don't use potions because like a few people have already said, the hp gain is just too low with how high of hp we have right now. Instead of making things easier than they already are, having hp potions heal % hp would probably give more an incentive to use them in battles/raids. Or even having those redeemer potions be potions we can use in raids; with hp pot prof r3, that's 4800 hp, which is more than half the hp an average player has, thus making the "wait to be rezzed instead of potting because lazy to get hp" argument be ineffective.
I'm glad that the hp pot changes aren't happening, there's already so much babying as is.
I was honestly going to say something along these very same lines. After thumbing through all of the RISE threads, I think Ifound every instance that this potion animation removal is mentioned. Out of all the opinions that have been put out there, all but two are directly negative about this change for a similar reason if not the same. The remaining two are comprised of a mixed feelings opinion, and Q2's positive opinion about it. I was going to happily quote every single one of these in my reply to Question2 and make it known that he/she shouldn't speak for the majority unless it can be backed by irrefutable proof. I'm limited on what I can do on a phone at work, but I will be posting an actual reply when I get home. I'll admit I do agree with his/her reply on a few notes but I'll touch on that later in my actual response.
I think it's starting to turn ok. Just the matter of the insane AD changes that needs to be dialed back and I'd like to see enhancing capped back to 15. They should either increase the success rates more than current or remove the penalties and include failstacks if they want to keep the success rates, not both.
As for the whole potting vs. res thing, not potting in favor of being ressed is just incredibly selfish. You're asking other people to not dps just so you can get your big % at the end. Like Cloakshire, I also do have an HP threshold for when I will start using pots and am very against the removal of pot animation.
I have a few new "friends" who do this and I just don't res them. Which leads to me not playing with them pretty much since they just alt-tab out after not being ressed. So I guess "friend" is a rather generous title.
The cost to benefit ratio of potting may be too low, but that doesn't mean it's not optimal to drink pots. I will say that the cost/benefit ratio IS low when you're focusing on yourself alone and not taking the party as a whole into consideration. And I'm probably gonna repeat this line a few times in this reply, but saying "most people," and "nobody," doesn't make it true. You can claim the majority is behind your individual opinion all you want, but I know this isn't the case.
Nowhere in my reply did I say that you suggested that players "should," do that. I don't twist your words around so don't twist mine around.
Again, you're speaking for the masses. This is a bad habit that only hurts the credibility of your claims & I know I'm not the only one that noticed you have this habit. I will still carry my opinion that it is a sloppy way to play & it would seem that a few other people who have replied to this thread are in agreement with me. Notice how I said "a few," and didn't claim the whole playerbase?
It is only faster if you're immediately revived, as in within 2 or 3 seconds after you die. It seems that timing when the boss is "busy" is too much of a challenge for you. It's not hard at all especially when you're in an 8man raid. Not to mention that a bunch of bosses have moments when they're invincivle IE: Havan's Aoe, Lakoria Underground, Regina in the air OHKO'ing someone, Lugh in the air. Potting in these situations result in no dps lost.
Saying that the only time a party would lose DPS is if the person being revived does lower dps than the person using the feather is just a ludicrous claim. It doesn't matter how much damage a person is doing. Damage is damage. If you die, you're not doing damage. If someone has to stop attacking, and come revive you, then they're losing dps. So two people have lost dps and in an 8 man raid, that's 1/4 of the party that's not dps'ing. Again, the dps lost from drinking a potion doesn't outweigh the lost dps of one person dead/another having to revive. It's not that complicated to understand. You need to be more considerate of your fellow party members.
Usually not a problem to get rez'd within a few seconds? This is the case some of the time, but other times, you'll die while up against the boss and you cannot be immediately revived due to the lack of an opening. Allow me to pose this question to you. You make it seem like you're picked up rather quickly if you die. How quickly do you pick up someone else if they're dead? If you're the type of player that doesn't pot because of a dps obsessed epeen, you don't seem like you'd be the type to sacrifice some if your dps to revive someone either. Am I wrong? Do you prioritize the life of another above your dps or not? Or will you only revive someone who's strong while you let the weaker players hug the floor?
Again claiming the majority. I view this line as invalid b/c I don't see survey results of the entire playerbase.
I don't need to ask this question to the people in my parties b/c I typically see people drinking potions every so often. There may be a few people that are refusing the drink potions and dying as a result, but after 3 feathers, they're staying on the floor as far as I'm concerned. Maybe they'll learn a lesson.
Invalid Majority Claim
Oh so you're a mind reader now and know people still wouldn't use potions if they were made to heal more? Or is this just you reflecting your opinion off of the majority?
I believe that the reason the average population has shifted is because they've made so many changes to the game that make it too easy. You say that new players struggle with something like panth even with lvl 90 gear. I think that they struggle because the game leading up to raids like that aren't challenging. They lack the skill that they could have developed and because of this, they hit a brick wall. The game all of a sudden demands skill and b/c it wasn't cultivated and developed over time, the task of developing it all at once is too daunting of a task. They either leave at this point or they turn to OP gear, but once seeing the gear's cost, they leave. This wouldn't be a problem if the game's early stages were tweaked up to train the newer players so that their skill would increase naturally over time & not be demanded after not being developed. This is why I'm not a fan of changes that baby the player through the game. Making it easier to level up and progress just increases the amount of people that will eventually hit this aforementioned brick wall. Removing the potion/repair animations are just another way to baby the player & I'm not the only one that thinks so. I also don't see anyone aside from you that likes this change Question2.
I rest my case and look forward to a possible reply from you Q2.
Season 3 Raids become 4 players too, except for Neamhain as most already knows. See ya.
You're the ones that this will probably hurt the most. The casuals and the scrubs will go in with their +10 weapons and do 2% damage against the +18/+19 or the other three players and receive one drop.
Have fun with your Eochaid toenail. Yes, singular, TOENAIL.
Vip, VVIP, and Luk blessings? With how easy it is to get VIP service through the AP shop, people can at least get two cores & the drop rate of purple and oranges have been dramatically increased. I'm not sure what a dramatic increase is in terms of percentage numbers to devcat though.
I'm not a fan of this new drop rate system but the most we can do is just voice our opinions & wait and see what happens.
You really believe there will be many +18/19s? Almost all the +15s out there are perma bound, when they release the rise content they can't be enhanced further since you only get 1 boom now. The few lv 90 +15s that weren't boomed are going to go up in worth like crazy, and 14% odds to manage a +16 from a +15 is not good. (Even with 8 +15s you would have ~30% chance of booming them all...)
That said there is even more incentive to always boom your weapon and armor, and the sad part now is that lv 95 gear is going to be crazy expensive. Don't even know if I will bother scrolling anything less than ~+13 armor. (Goal will likely be to boom 5 of each type and only reclaim the best one assuming it even got close to where you are content to spend a lot more gold on something you can't sell.)
And lets be honest <2% is going to be tough on almost every content. (Remember at most you are going to have 8 man parties now.)
It just means running with alts or being carried by a lv 95 in low level content isn't going to be advantageous for drops.
That said I don't know what boss drops you will even want for low lvl content anymore?
Honestly I see this entire update worse than a wash. Sure it is nice they revamped early content... does that mean I am going to play any more low level content... not unless there is a lvling event. And sadly now it just took away 2/3rds of the "end game" content we have right now.
Vindictus is getting Lazy? quick drink pots, faster runs, quick endings, able to join any map from any board, quick story finishing... etc
Are they taking away the small things that a lot of people find fun? I like exploring new areas. when malina came out it was awesome. people are now going to sit in colhen and do everything from there. Is it nexon getting lazy or are the players?
why remove animations and then give us cooldown times? this to me ruins the visual side of the game.
Why allow people to sit in one spot and complete stories? yes it can be a little tedious running all over the place to complete the missions but that is all part of the game, its not like we are playing a massive MMO game where we have to travel through dungeons to see people.
i find the removal of this to be silly and its making it easier for nexon to do updates, whats next? text base combat instead of fighting?
Why are they stopping even more titles? the game used to be enjoyable to people because of the farming. either scrolls or titles but then they removed stats from most titles then they removed most scroll farms. now people are just doing raids all the time, raid raid then log off, there is little farming left.
im sure i will add more at a later date.
Eh put both my +12 chains and +14 swords on the anvil tonight after reaching the 50 neam clear benchmark, both fails, bringing me to 0/4 lifetime +15 attempts. I would have just stayed with my 14's forever this time, but since 15 is such a huge threshold in the upcoming patch, and I wouldn't have the opportunity to upgrade the swords post patch (they've boomed before), I felt like I was going to need to soon. So there we have it, the already way too punishing enhancement system is getting worse, and the fair cash shop is becoming much less fair, so farewell Vindi. Your combat and bosses were unique and fun for a while, but I've played games with +20 cash shops before, and I'm not falling for this trap again.