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i know you said NX items work in there but a good thing to note is you can use are the accessorys from the ap shop and i would also guess you can use the necklaces from the daily log in rewards exchange shop if you dont have the rose stuff from the attendance event you can focus on what stat your missing that way every little bit helps the party you know
After 3 clears and tons of practice and so far, Hurk is proving to be quite impressive in terms of dealing dmg and staying alive thanks to the godly fix to his dodge.
The only issue I've experienced so far is in the final phase where having Neamhain and Neim both attacking takes a toll on your hp even if you absorb all the hits. That and he isn't the greatest in dealing damage to Neim in p1 due to the lack of an effective aoe to hit more than 1 claw.
As for the claws in Neim p1, they start off the colour gray and slowly turn green. I just focus on the gray ones as they eventually stop taking damage after turning a solid green.
I never really noticed the color. I just paid attention to the DPS numbers appearing. Once those disappear then that's your sign to focus on that claw. as well as pay attention to which claw it is xD
We were so close today. Down to 1.7 Health. Had we cleared that .7 Health, we would've cleared the run. Neamhain made me her plaything by OHKO as soon as I was res'd; the omnislash attack. The ragdoll physics. +haha
Easily one of the cheapest raids in the game lol. We really needed something to pander to the people dumping money into their characters.
EDIT: And being as there's a story connected to it, it is kinda required. I have a guildmate I've been playing with since the beginning who's gonna be pushed into retiring if the game trends in this direction.
Easily one of the cheapest raids in the game lol. We really needed something to pander to the people dumping money into their characters.
EDIT: And being as there's a story connected to it, it is kinda required. I have a guildmate I've been playing with since the beginning who's gonna be pushed into retiring if the game trends in this direction.
I don't really see how dumping money into your character will help when literally the ONLY thing NX wise that would help is NX equipment like Cadet Badge and what not. Unless you mean gold buying well then that's the players own fault for giving into temptation for buying gold. You can't use GG's or anything else. So there's really no way paying real money would help you even in the slightest. You can have 18k def and 30k att and still get destroyed. This raid isn't about stats alone. It's legit about having the skill to back your stats. So if you don't have the skills to back your stats then you need to keep practicing. As you have seen people beat the raid then you should understand it takes practice.
One of the best players I've ran with is a staff evie and far from pay2win running around with less than 10k defense and around 40spd. Yet they are the one who usually lasts the longest and can literally 1 man p3 till the revive timer expires for other party members.
This raid is the single most enjoyable thing to come out of Vindictus for me in years and really separates the skilled from those who think they are all that just cause they get top deeps in raids with their stims and merc pots c:.
I don't really see how dumping money into your character will help when literally the ONLY thing NX wise that would help is NX equipment like Cadet Badge and what not. Unless you mean gold buying well then that's the players own fault for giving into temptation for buying gold. You can't use GG's or anything else. So there's really no way paying real money would help you even in the slightest. You can have 18k def and 30k att and still get destroyed. This raid isn't about stats alone. It's legit about having the skill to back your stats. So if you don't have the skills to back your stats then you need to keep practicing. As you have seen people beat the raid then you should understand it takes practice.
Because if your stats aren't inflated with scrolls and high level armor/weapon/enchant/enhancements you're basically completely useless in this. And those people buy plenty of runes and other NX items to get gear that's considered 'decent' for this raid. I had to use a couple runes to get even close to the recommended 24k att/200 bal+crit/50 att spd and I'm still not absolutely at that level. I started off with level 80 gear that was pretty good but basically made me feel like I was made out of tissue paper for this and this alone.
One of the best players I've ran with is a staff evie and far from pay2win running around with less than 10k defense and around 40spd. Yet they are the one who usually lasts the longest and can literally 1 man p3 till the revive timer expires for other party members.
This raid is the single most enjoyable thing to come out of Vindictus for me in years and really separates the skilled from those who think they are all that just cause they get top deeps in raids with their stims and merc pots c:.
I REALLY don't see it. Playing this I go back and forth between hyped and extremely annoyed. And of the people I know IRL who play this, I'm the only one who can even come remotely close to finishing. If they continue like this, I think we're gonna just move on.
Nice anecdote there about the Evie. I've been in roughly 40 parties now, most of them with some pretty good players and they all eventually ended because of cheap OHKOs or they got stunlocked comboed into oblivion. Yeah I've seen Hurks putting in solo work on phase 3, but that's in-between attempts where we just get ground down. Roughly 40 runs of this and I don't feel I gained any knowledge in my last run I didn't have in run 20 or run 10. Anything difficult I don't get a chance to work on and all the stuff prior to that I have pretty downpat except for the occasional mistake or when the game decides to screw me.
I can appreciate difficulty, dodging Gates is difficult and I'm still working on that. I'm talking about how long it takes, even with a good party and good DPS, to get to something you haven't already spent tons of effort on. It's hard to practice attack patterns when you have to sit through a half hour of samey grind just to get a shot at it. And that's when the game isn't just outright trying to cheat you by having Neimhain's electric ball invisible because she's hiding inside of Neam's body or when the AOE circles aren't quite honest about where you can safely stand. And that's without bringing up the third phase with is just phase 2 with a few token instant kill attacks thrown in because they ran out of ideas at that point.
I'm gonna keep trying until either I beat this or I just run out of ambition, then I'm done.
The experience comes with being able to stay alive while contributing enough damage to clear the run. I practically duoed most of the raid on Delia yesterday with my Karok buddy and we contributed 68% of the total damage done to the boss. Yes we played aggressively and kept her near the map border so we wouldn't time out at the end, but we never took unnecessary risks which would get us stunlocked or hit with one of those debuffs because we understood recovery frames of both our characters and the boss.
It doesn't matter how good a group of people think they are, but if they are unable to clear the battle within the hour limit while staying alive, they could use more practice. This raid differs from the previous ones in the fact you can't just poke at the boss a few times a minute and still expect to finish in the hour.
It's as Atherion says and as I said before. Stats is only a 50% reliant in that raid. If you don't have that other 50% which is skill (not getting hit....actually getting good) it doesn't matter if you have 18k def even 19k def in that raid you will die. I see it a lot on KR even for players new to Neamhain with OP stats. Stats are no longer the only thing you need in this game. Skill is REQUIRED for Neamhain. Also Runes aren't really a pay2win method. It's Pay2Convenience. You aren't buying gold. You are buying not risking the only OP weapon you have. Just because you buy runes doesn't mean you are paying to win and it also doesn't mean you are rich. I'm not even pay2win and I can handle Neamhain with 24k att and 10k def on Delia on KR. Why? Because that Skill is my 50% that I excel at even with my near 1 second lag due to playing from America. That's just something a lot of people who haven't hit those stats or have hit those stats but die so quickly fail to realize. You NEED to learn the raid WHILE having the stats. I practiced that raid for a week before I even was able to clear it. Even then I surprise players on KR for raiding that raid with my lag and not dying easily.
Sea of Reflection/Redeemers is the BEST content EVER. Enjoyment from this content isn't completing it (that is an added bonus), but learning how the raid works and seeing yourself grow as a player. It is OK to fail because the practice really helps. I went from dying at Phase 1 Neit (day 1) to only dying at the final phase (now) from Neit's claw debuff (still need practice timing it). I'm enjoying this content because I can track my growth/progress and it helps me improve as player and play my character much better.
Haven't had this much fun with this game in a long time. The amount that I have gotten better in such a short amount of time still surprises me a bit. With regards to stats, I'd even go so much to say that stats are only 20% of the raid.
As for OHKO cheapness, I'm kind of on the fence on this one. For one, I don't think I'd be able to survive to P3 with 0 deaths/pots used if I hadn't grinded the heck trying to figure out how to avoid the death traps.
On the other hand, I can see how this is frustrating especially since more and more people are able to get to P3 without much problem and people new to the raid have to watch for much longer than what most of us who were around since the start experienced.
The fight could have been well designed with a few changes, but its like their usually one and done attempts on everything they do for this game. No testing, revision or feedback considered. Its been a long week...where to start?
Neas normal attacks - Her non special moves can often one shot you straight out at 14-15k def if you get unlucky. She can also combo you where you can not take any actions and can not recover between attacks (100 to 0 with nothing you can do). If you've done this fight you have probably experienced the following: She hits you with the quick swipe before she puts up her circle (hit 1) You are staggered into the ring by this hit and it explodes (hit 2) finally the ring explodes again (hit 3) and there is a good chance your dead at this point. Another one is where she hits you with the no stamina regen debuff then just keeps attacking you till your dead. You can take no actions during this whole ordeal. How about when she throws the AE orb in your face for sometimes massive damage and then it explodes for your death. Want to dodge that 2nd hit? Nah your going to recover the same instant it explodes. Sure you can avoid this outcome by being in the right position around her but with people dodging in random directions this attack is sometimes unavoidable.
Aes - The explosion on her rings go further than they indicate. Why? Whats the point of using an indicator for an AE if its false? Also, if the first AE hits and your not knocked down you will get hit by the 2nd. Why? You get skills to avoid being knocked down which hurts you in most cases. Ok. The AE indicators when neit does his red stuff on the ground is off as well (where he freaks out and there is red mist stuff on the ground). It explodes well out of the AE indication (Im not talking about the AE wave after it btw). One more AE, which i almost forgot, is when she slams on the ground from the air. She can hit you with the slam and then the small AE that comes out can hit you as well. Ive seen people Iframe the slam but still get hit with the small wave.
1HKOs - Everyones favorite. The gates are actually not too bad and they appear early enough for you to learn them well. The only problem with them is the timing seems slightly too tight. You can dodge them at 95% success rate and then you get into a group where your 3 bars or 2 bars...good luck! Neas Sword hit KO is fine. Both of these moves are punishing, but not over the top (you can fail gates and get a life flare and you can get hit with the debuff on sword KO but not get 'picked'. Then we have the Neit combo which is easily the worst designed portion of the fight. There's no practice mode for this fight ( you know the only fight you would really want it on) so you need to spend 20-30 mins to try to get to this stage which could be rare in a pug and hope your alive so you can try to avoid this combo which can wipe your entire group. The best part of it is you cant see. The game decides to hijack your camera for some unknown reason to "help" you. So you keep attempting to get the timing down without real knowledge of what is actually hitting you. This process can be extremely painful if you got a character with a small window for IFrames (Lynn, Kai etc) If your pugging you may get to this stage and be alive 1-2 times a day and it may take you 20-30 attempts before you find something that works for you even at a 50% rate. I ended up having to run to the right side and forcibly dragging with my right mouse button to grab my camera back to be able to see.
Some simple adjustments could have made this a good fight: Check AE range vs indication, force knockdowns on some moves to avoid 2-3x hit combos where you cant take an action between, introduce a low damage neit combo early on for practice purposes (one time works p1 or beginning p2) or open up practice mode, and knock it off with the stupid camera hijacking.
I have cleared this fight on my Evie 7 times (static) and my Lynn 0 times (pugs) so Im not complaining cuz its "too hard", but rather because its a cheap fight. You can die on this fight 2x in phase 1 without even being able to use a potion due to unlucky crits and no action combos. If you dont have a static group for your character your most likely going to spend a lot of time to get it done once then never touch the fight again. There is also no stat requirements on the fight so expect to see a lot of 19k 9k people in pugs.
I have seen this fight on youtube sometimes where it ends at bar4 instead of bar1...Was that a test server build and they put in the final phase for release or is there an easy mode to this fight coming up at some point? If so that could be a decent alternative for alt characters if the kill counts towards your 100 kill meter.
Oh man, those side throws are plain aids. Doesn't help that they're lightning fast and unreactable.
Her hop spin smash also hits multiple times, and so does her uppercut shotgun. Both of those moves are manageable enough, but if a targetted Scyvie blinked the other side, you can pretty much die on the spot even with 14k def. The uppercut also tracks so accurately for an obscene amount of time, so the dodge on it is almost airtight.
I agree with the Neit combo. I don't even know how KR got it down so quick considering they have fatigue on their game. I only ever got it down because someone told me to stay to the right. If I had to manually dodge 3-4th hit on Lynn, I'd probably have given up on the fight altogether.
As for the no P3 version, they released the fight on the test servers without P3. They intentionally left it out for live version.
AFAIK, we only have the full fight.
P3 Neit Neamhain Combo what we looked for is WHERE the parts of him hit least. Go to that spot and avoid damage when needed and let the rest happen. THe jump spin forward attack I just dodge towards her since that's not a red attack. Easier to avoid the multihit. The uppercut I found a pain as a Lann to time right if you are up close.
Yes, this exactly. There's difficult and then there's cheap stunlocks and OHKs you'd need to spend dozens of hours to get down. It's not hard to get most of this down but they like to hit you with shameless cheap deaths.
What's the name of your Evie? I've played a few runs with your Lynn.
I finally cleared this with help from KingKarok, AresRage, and a few other recurring people running this multiple times a day on East. This feels like another Thousandaire-type thing that only a small handful of people will ever bother with because it's not worth the time commitment, frustration, and energy.
P3 Neit Neamhain Combo what we looked for is WHERE the parts of him hit least. Go to that spot and avoid damage when needed and let the rest happen. THe jump spin forward attack I just dodge towards her since that's not a red attack. Easier to avoid the multihit. The uppercut I found a pain as a Lann to time right if you are up close.
Yeah, it's not hard to avoid normally, but I mean when someone steers her like a scythe blinking through her early and she 180s to your face. Not a very big issue, at least not as big as side throw combo kill.
When Neamhain throws her balls that turn into big purple AOE's on the ground, those shouldn't even damage you lol.
The balls from those have hit me on more than one occasion and they HURT. Not only that, but the purple AOE's will likely explode right after you recover from Standing Endurance.
My other character is "Jixxie" but its a Scythie =/
For those still working on the 6 Hit KO you may find this useful:
If you look at this one he...
1. Runs to East of Neit
2. Grabs control of his camera (drag with right click)
3. He then dodges attacks 1, 2, 4, 5*
You can also see the Lann out there for the first few hits. If you look at him you can see him dodging 1,2, 3 and 4 with 3 and 4 being right near each other in timing as he has to double dash for those. If your on a low Iframe character such as a Lynn you have to be really careful on your timing for those since you only have like .4 Iframes vs .6 on Lann.
*hit 3 and 4 are very close and if your on the East side you can skip 3 which is a short range claw. If your on the edge over there you can skip hit 6 as well just dodge hit 5 and see where you are. On the east side hit 6 is pretty much hits where 5 does. If this doesnt work for you just check out some other vidoes there are quite a few ways to attempt this.
If you want sound heres the URL (time of combo is 28:52)
Comments
ahh yes very true.
I never really noticed the color. I just paid attention to the DPS numbers appearing. Once those disappear then that's your sign to focus on that claw. as well as pay attention to which claw it is xD
Option 1:
Click here for full video @ 12:39
Option 2:
Click here for full video @ 00:10
EDIT: And being as there's a story connected to it, it is kinda required. I have a guildmate I've been playing with since the beginning who's gonna be pushed into retiring if the game trends in this direction.
Anytime
I don't really see how dumping money into your character will help when literally the ONLY thing NX wise that would help is NX equipment like Cadet Badge and what not. Unless you mean gold buying well then that's the players own fault for giving into temptation for buying gold. You can't use GG's or anything else. So there's really no way paying real money would help you even in the slightest. You can have 18k def and 30k att and still get destroyed. This raid isn't about stats alone. It's legit about having the skill to back your stats. So if you don't have the skills to back your stats then you need to keep practicing. As you have seen people beat the raid then you should understand it takes practice.
This raid is the single most enjoyable thing to come out of Vindictus for me in years and really separates the skilled from those who think they are all that just cause they get top deeps in raids with their stims and merc pots c:.
Because if your stats aren't inflated with scrolls and high level armor/weapon/enchant/enhancements you're basically completely useless in this. And those people buy plenty of runes and other NX items to get gear that's considered 'decent' for this raid. I had to use a couple runes to get even close to the recommended 24k att/200 bal+crit/50 att spd and I'm still not absolutely at that level. I started off with level 80 gear that was pretty good but basically made me feel like I was made out of tissue paper for this and this alone.
As far as 'practice', see below.
I REALLY don't see it. Playing this I go back and forth between hyped and extremely annoyed. And of the people I know IRL who play this, I'm the only one who can even come remotely close to finishing. If they continue like this, I think we're gonna just move on.
Nice anecdote there about the Evie. I've been in roughly 40 parties now, most of them with some pretty good players and they all eventually ended because of cheap OHKOs or they got stunlocked comboed into oblivion. Yeah I've seen Hurks putting in solo work on phase 3, but that's in-between attempts where we just get ground down. Roughly 40 runs of this and I don't feel I gained any knowledge in my last run I didn't have in run 20 or run 10. Anything difficult I don't get a chance to work on and all the stuff prior to that I have pretty downpat except for the occasional mistake or when the game decides to screw me.
I can appreciate difficulty, dodging Gates is difficult and I'm still working on that. I'm talking about how long it takes, even with a good party and good DPS, to get to something you haven't already spent tons of effort on. It's hard to practice attack patterns when you have to sit through a half hour of samey grind just to get a shot at it. And that's when the game isn't just outright trying to cheat you by having Neimhain's electric ball invisible because she's hiding inside of Neam's body or when the AOE circles aren't quite honest about where you can safely stand. And that's without bringing up the third phase with is just phase 2 with a few token instant kill attacks thrown in because they ran out of ideas at that point.
I'm gonna keep trying until either I beat this or I just run out of ambition, then I'm done.
It doesn't matter how good a group of people think they are, but if they are unable to clear the battle within the hour limit while staying alive, they could use more practice. This raid differs from the previous ones in the fact you can't just poke at the boss a few times a minute and still expect to finish in the hour.
As for OHKO cheapness, I'm kind of on the fence on this one. For one, I don't think I'd be able to survive to P3 with 0 deaths/pots used if I hadn't grinded the heck trying to figure out how to avoid the death traps.
On the other hand, I can see how this is frustrating especially since more and more people are able to get to P3 without much problem and people new to the raid have to watch for much longer than what most of us who were around since the start experienced.
Neas normal attacks - Her non special moves can often one shot you straight out at 14-15k def if you get unlucky. She can also combo you where you can not take any actions and can not recover between attacks (100 to 0 with nothing you can do). If you've done this fight you have probably experienced the following: She hits you with the quick swipe before she puts up her circle (hit 1) You are staggered into the ring by this hit and it explodes (hit 2) finally the ring explodes again (hit 3) and there is a good chance your dead at this point. Another one is where she hits you with the no stamina regen debuff then just keeps attacking you till your dead. You can take no actions during this whole ordeal. How about when she throws the AE orb in your face for sometimes massive damage and then it explodes for your death. Want to dodge that 2nd hit? Nah your going to recover the same instant it explodes. Sure you can avoid this outcome by being in the right position around her but with people dodging in random directions this attack is sometimes unavoidable.
Aes - The explosion on her rings go further than they indicate. Why? Whats the point of using an indicator for an AE if its false? Also, if the first AE hits and your not knocked down you will get hit by the 2nd. Why? You get skills to avoid being knocked down which hurts you in most cases. Ok. The AE indicators when neit does his red stuff on the ground is off as well (where he freaks out and there is red mist stuff on the ground). It explodes well out of the AE indication (Im not talking about the AE wave after it btw). One more AE, which i almost forgot, is when she slams on the ground from the air. She can hit you with the slam and then the small AE that comes out can hit you as well. Ive seen people Iframe the slam but still get hit with the small wave.
1HKOs - Everyones favorite. The gates are actually not too bad and they appear early enough for you to learn them well. The only problem with them is the timing seems slightly too tight. You can dodge them at 95% success rate and then you get into a group where your 3 bars or 2 bars...good luck! Neas Sword hit KO is fine. Both of these moves are punishing, but not over the top (you can fail gates and get a life flare and you can get hit with the debuff on sword KO but not get 'picked'. Then we have the Neit combo which is easily the worst designed portion of the fight. There's no practice mode for this fight ( you know the only fight you would really want it on) so you need to spend 20-30 mins to try to get to this stage which could be rare in a pug and hope your alive so you can try to avoid this combo which can wipe your entire group. The best part of it is you cant see. The game decides to hijack your camera for some unknown reason to "help" you. So you keep attempting to get the timing down without real knowledge of what is actually hitting you. This process can be extremely painful if you got a character with a small window for IFrames (Lynn, Kai etc) If your pugging you may get to this stage and be alive 1-2 times a day and it may take you 20-30 attempts before you find something that works for you even at a 50% rate. I ended up having to run to the right side and forcibly dragging with my right mouse button to grab my camera back to be able to see.
Some simple adjustments could have made this a good fight: Check AE range vs indication, force knockdowns on some moves to avoid 2-3x hit combos where you cant take an action between, introduce a low damage neit combo early on for practice purposes (one time works p1 or beginning p2) or open up practice mode, and knock it off with the stupid camera hijacking.
I have cleared this fight on my Evie 7 times (static) and my Lynn 0 times (pugs) so Im not complaining cuz its "too hard", but rather because its a cheap fight. You can die on this fight 2x in phase 1 without even being able to use a potion due to unlucky crits and no action combos. If you dont have a static group for your character your most likely going to spend a lot of time to get it done once then never touch the fight again. There is also no stat requirements on the fight so expect to see a lot of 19k 9k people in pugs.
I have seen this fight on youtube sometimes where it ends at bar4 instead of bar1...Was that a test server build and they put in the final phase for release or is there an easy mode to this fight coming up at some point? If so that could be a decent alternative for alt characters if the kill counts towards your 100 kill meter.
Her hop spin smash also hits multiple times, and so does her uppercut shotgun. Both of those moves are manageable enough, but if a targetted Scyvie blinked the other side, you can pretty much die on the spot even with 14k def. The uppercut also tracks so accurately for an obscene amount of time, so the dodge on it is almost airtight.
I agree with the Neit combo. I don't even know how KR got it down so quick considering they have fatigue on their game. I only ever got it down because someone told me to stay to the right. If I had to manually dodge 3-4th hit on Lynn, I'd probably have given up on the fight altogether.
As for the no P3 version, they released the fight on the test servers without P3. They intentionally left it out for live version.
AFAIK, we only have the full fight.
Yes, this exactly. There's difficult and then there's cheap stunlocks and OHKs you'd need to spend dozens of hours to get down. It's not hard to get most of this down but they like to hit you with shameless cheap deaths.
What's the name of your Evie? I've played a few runs with your Lynn.
I finally cleared this with help from KingKarok, AresRage, and a few other recurring people running this multiple times a day on East. This feels like another Thousandaire-type thing that only a small handful of people will ever bother with because it's not worth the time commitment, frustration, and energy.
Yeah, it's not hard to avoid normally, but I mean when someone steers her like a scythe blinking through her early and she 180s to your face. Not a very big issue, at least not as big as side throw combo kill.
The balls from those have hit me on more than one occasion and they HURT. Not only that, but the purple AOE's will likely explode right after you recover from Standing Endurance.
For those still working on the 6 Hit KO you may find this useful:
If you look at this one he...
1. Runs to East of Neit
2. Grabs control of his camera (drag with right click)
3. He then dodges attacks 1, 2, 4, 5*
You can also see the Lann out there for the first few hits. If you look at him you can see him dodging 1,2, 3 and 4 with 3 and 4 being right near each other in timing as he has to double dash for those. If your on a low Iframe character such as a Lynn you have to be really careful on your timing for those since you only have like .4 Iframes vs .6 on Lann.
*hit 3 and 4 are very close and if your on the East side you can skip 3 which is a short range claw. If your on the edge over there you can skip hit 6 as well just dodge hit 5 and see where you are. On the east side hit 6 is pretty much hits where 5 does. If this doesnt work for you just check out some other vidoes there are quite a few ways to attempt this.
If you want sound heres the URL (time of combo is 28:52)