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Skill in my case was how easy the character is to use as well as the amount of effort it takes to do certain amount of damage (low/medium/high reward) in an average raid (Neamhain, S3). So a character like Scythe Evie is easy to use, fairly straightforward and doesn't require much effort to do dps (generally medium) in an average raid. While a character like SS Arisha requires more understanding, and effort but also deals more dps (generally high) in an average raid. Effort again is ambiguous but I'm not really sure how else to explain it besides my own experiences.
The problem is that the relationship between ease of use and reward varies depending on skill floors and ceilings.
Assuming we use League's definition wherein skill floor is equivalent to barrier to entry, a character with a low skill floor (easy to use) but high skill ceiling (greater required effort to hit maximum potential) will see wildly differing levels of reward depending on the individual piloting that character. On the flipside, a character with a very narrow margin between its skill floor and ceiling will see a much more constant level of reward irrespective of the pilot, so long as they understand the basics.
This is why I suggested earlier in the thread that it's better to look at characters by giving all of them optimal gearing layouts (so that characters which rely heavily on crit or attack speed aren't artificially gimped) and then giving those characters to a set of players with a wide range of skill and experience. We could then see the impact of skill floors and ceilings on reward in terms of damage done, damage taken, uptime, and whatever other factors you'd like to include.
In other words, I don't think a generic "skill" rating is really an adequate way to judge Vindi's characters and any average you try to hit is almost certainly bound to be inaccurate. It really should be broken down by floors and ceilings, and probably bosses on top of that.
You all suck at the game anyways, all the good ones already left, so you didn't climb the skill ceiling, it only came down to your levels.
1 of 3 spear lanns in the game, "I AM THE BEST SPEAR LANN ON THE SERVER, I AM GODLIKE COMPARED TO ALL OTHER SPEAR LANNS ON THE SERVER; BOW DOWN TO ME" sure might be true, but nothing impressive when there as many as 2 other people who play it.
You all suck at the game anyways, all the good ones already left, so you didn't climb the skill ceiling, it only came down to your levels.
1 of 3 spear lanns in the game, "I AM THE BEST SPEAR LANN ON THE SERVER, I AM GODLIKE COMPARED TO ALL OTHER SPEAR LANNS ON THE SERVER; BOW DOWN TO ME" sure might be true, but nothing impressive when there as many as 2 other people who play it.
Let's all be friends. Play what you love. The skill comes from practice, dedication, practice, discipline, practice, practice, and did I mention practice?
I saw the jump in responses and decided to read this thread in entirety. The game is not meant to be divided from the start. The game is divided in balance strictly by the one behind the keyboard, it always has been.
Gear might carry big weight, but there is also a ceiling. Certain characters might have advantages and limitations, but it doesn't mean anyone is handicapped and cant compete.
All we have is our personal opinions and experiences, and trying to justify one over another is not going to change anything, or anyone. Especially by attacking. This thread is super defensive and it doesn't need to be.
We all love a certain class for certain reasons, is that not enough to keep playing it?
If you start a class based on other peoples opinions of skill or dps, you might miss out on actually enjoying a class. Follow your heart, it's why we play vindi, and choose to ignore so many negative aspects. Keep that mentality and you won't go wrong, o matter which class you love.
Let's all be friends. Play what you love. The skill comes from practice, dedication, practice, discipline, practice, practice, and did I mention practice?
I saw the jump in responses and decided to read this thread in entirety. The game is not meant to be divided from the start. The game is divided in balance strictly by the one behind the keyboard, it always has been.
Gear might carry big weight, but there is also a ceiling. Certain characters might have advantages and limitations, but it doesn't mean anyone is handicapped and cant compete.
All we have is our personal opinions and experiences, and trying to justify one over another is not going to change anything, or anyone. Especially by attacking. This thread is super defensive and it doesn't need to be.
We all love a certain class for certain reasons, is that not enough to keep playing it?
If you start a class based on other peoples opinions of skill or dps, you might miss out on actually enjoying a class. Follow your heart, it's why we play vindi, and choose to ignore so many negative aspects. Keep that mentality and you won't go wrong, o matter which class you love.
Let's all be friends. Play what you love. The skill comes from practice, dedication, practice, discipline, practice, practice, and did I mention practice?
I saw the jump in responses and decided to read this thread in entirety. The game is not meant to be divided from the start. The game is divided in balance strictly by the one behind the keyboard, it always has been.
Gear might carry big weight, but there is also a ceiling. Certain characters might have advantages and limitations, but it doesn't mean anyone is handicapped and cant compete.
All we have is our personal opinions and experiences, and trying to justify one over another is not going to change anything, or anyone. Especially by attacking. This thread is super defensive and it doesn't need to be.
We all love a certain class for certain reasons, is that not enough to keep playing it?
If you start a class based on other peoples opinions of skill or dps, you might miss out on actually enjoying a class. Follow your heart, it's why we play vindi, and choose to ignore so many negative aspects. Keep that mentality and you won't go wrong, o matter which class you love.
--Technical
Even with all the practice in the world one character will deal more DPS that the other because games where all classes are balanced does not exist.
Also in order to play a character optimally it can take X amount of time for one character and 3xX amount for another.
Then it comes the variables like - how consistent a certain character is. For example I remember when I were playing Sword Vella in the past, there were lag issues which were preventing you from using the core mechanic of this character and even if it is "easy" to use you couldn't do it.
That is why threads like this should exist, just people who are posting need to be more knowledgeable and experienced before posting here.
Let's all be friends. Play what you love. The skill comes from practice, dedication, practice, discipline, practice, practice, and did I mention practice?
I saw the jump in responses and decided to read this thread in entirety. The game is not meant to be divided from the start. The game is divided in balance strictly by the one behind the keyboard, it always has been.
Gear might carry big weight, but there is also a ceiling. Certain characters might have advantages and limitations, but it doesn't mean anyone is handicapped and cant compete.
All we have is our personal opinions and experiences, and trying to justify one over another is not going to change anything, or anyone. Especially by attacking. This thread is super defensive and it doesn't need to be.
We all love a certain class for certain reasons, is that not enough to keep playing it?
If you start a class based on other peoples opinions of skill or dps, you might miss out on actually enjoying a class. Follow your heart, it's why we play vindi, and choose to ignore so many negative aspects. Keep that mentality and you won't go wrong, o matter which class you love.
--Technical
Even with all the practice in the world one character will deal more DPS that the other because games where all classes are balanced does not exist.
Also in order to play a character optimally it can take X amount of time for one character and 3xX amount for another.
Then it comes the variables like - how consistent a certain character is. For example I remember when I were playing Sword Vella in the past, there were lag issues which were preventing you from using the core mechanic of this character and even if it is "easy" to use you couldn't do it.
That is why threads like this should exist, just people need t
Kommentare
The problem is that the relationship between ease of use and reward varies depending on skill floors and ceilings.
Assuming we use League's definition wherein skill floor is equivalent to barrier to entry, a character with a low skill floor (easy to use) but high skill ceiling (greater required effort to hit maximum potential) will see wildly differing levels of reward depending on the individual piloting that character. On the flipside, a character with a very narrow margin between its skill floor and ceiling will see a much more constant level of reward irrespective of the pilot, so long as they understand the basics.
This is why I suggested earlier in the thread that it's better to look at characters by giving all of them optimal gearing layouts (so that characters which rely heavily on crit or attack speed aren't artificially gimped) and then giving those characters to a set of players with a wide range of skill and experience. We could then see the impact of skill floors and ceilings on reward in terms of damage done, damage taken, uptime, and whatever other factors you'd like to include.
In other words, I don't think a generic "skill" rating is really an adequate way to judge Vindi's characters and any average you try to hit is almost certainly bound to be inaccurate. It really should be broken down by floors and ceilings, and probably bosses on top of that.
1 of 3 spear lanns in the game, "I AM THE BEST SPEAR LANN ON THE SERVER, I AM GODLIKE COMPARED TO ALL OTHER SPEAR LANNS ON THE SERVER; BOW DOWN TO ME" sure might be true, but nothing impressive when there as many as 2 other people who play it.
I saw the jump in responses and decided to read this thread in entirety. The game is not meant to be divided from the start. The game is divided in balance strictly by the one behind the keyboard, it always has been.
Gear might carry big weight, but there is also a ceiling. Certain characters might have advantages and limitations, but it doesn't mean anyone is handicapped and cant compete.
All we have is our personal opinions and experiences, and trying to justify one over another is not going to change anything, or anyone. Especially by attacking. This thread is super defensive and it doesn't need to be.
We all love a certain class for certain reasons, is that not enough to keep playing it?
If you start a class based on other peoples opinions of skill or dps, you might miss out on actually enjoying a class. Follow your heart, it's why we play vindi, and choose to ignore so many negative aspects. Keep that mentality and you won't go wrong, o matter which class you love.
--Technical
Even with all the practice in the world one character will deal more DPS that the other because games where all classes are balanced does not exist.
Also in order to play a character optimally it can take X amount of time for one character and 3xX amount for another.
Then it comes the variables like - how consistent a certain character is. For example I remember when I were playing Sword Vella in the past, there were lag issues which were preventing you from using the core mechanic of this character and even if it is "easy" to use you couldn't do it.
That is why threads like this should exist, just people who are posting need to be more knowledgeable and experienced before posting here.
Even with all the practice in the world one character will deal more DPS that the other because games where all classes are balanced does not exist.
Also in order to play a character optimally it can take X amount of time for one character and 3xX amount for another.
Then it comes the variables like - how consistent a certain character is. For example I remember when I were playing Sword Vella in the past, there were lag issues which were preventing you from using the core mechanic of this character and even if it is "easy" to use you couldn't do it.
That is why threads like this should exist, just people need t