hugemelll

finally done it..

After a month of training...


probably will be able to shred off 2~3 min from the clear time if I get more experience.


-Verdius-

Aerodos wrote: »

I'm going to pin up hugemelll's two comment blocks under one quote and put it in a spoiler block prefaced by a description of what it entails.

As for the the Lann changes that are being planned for in the future, I would like to say a few things. What I am going to say is meant to be taken seriously and will hopefully be brought under consideration by the developers that are in charge of our sect. The Lann changes are evidently receiving a vastly negative response in Vindictus KR and, while I don't like to speak for an entire community, are likely to be met with very negative feedback in Vindictus NA. To avoid that I would appreciate if the developers would at least consider my suggestions. I love this game's combat and I greatly favor Lann's combat in particular and so I would like to keep such drastic flow-breaking changes from rolling out.

[Lann]
+Keep the change that reduces recovery time for furies.
+Keep the change that allows players to immediately Spear Dash after a fury.
-Either remove Absolute Fury or implement it as an active skill. The latter will give the ability possible niche uses without negatively impacting Lann's flow of combat. I still wouldn't see the point of making it an active skill as Spear Lann gets great critical boosts from Fury infusion making it much easier for him to crit cap and be able to use furies when he chooses to and Sword Lann has raging fever which guarantees him a critical hit. The move would just seem like a Raging Fever knock-off except for both weapon types. Perhaps lowering Raging Fever's SP cost would be better instead of implementing Absolute Fury at all.

All in all, the new Absolute Fury, is quite honestly very unmistakably impacting Lann in a detrimental way. The two first changes I suggested would already be an insane improvement for Lann. Fury recovery time reductions especially would be a powerful change to Lann and help him catch up with other characters while still keeping his fighting style exactly the same. Although I would want to suggest changes for Sword Lann that would possibly assist him with some stamina issues he still has, these would still be a great set of changes. I find it hard to see Absolute Fury as a beneficial change considering all of the terrible side effects and it's deficiency as a skill. Making it an active skill would just make it a cheaper alternative to Raging Fever on a higher cooldown for Sword Lann.

Thanks for making my quotes simple and easier to understand Aerodos. I've also read your things you suggested,
and I agree with your ideas in general. Ironically, The ideas were also addressed by KR Lanns to DOL, but were ignored
as you guys already know. For the Absolute Fury, I personally think removing it would be the best option to be honest, but if
it can be changed into an active, I think that could definitely help the NA to avoid the current situations in KR.

I am currently doing follow up research on the aftermath of Oct 26 patch of KR server.
from what I saw, the situation gotten worse than 19th Oct. To be honest, I think the KR server balance
patches on 19th and 26th October may cause another major loss of players after the RISE patch.


안녕하세요. GM포비슈입니다.
Hello, this is GM Fovish
 
2017년 10월 26일 목요일
정식 서버 업데이트 후 적용되는 변경 점은 다음과 같습니다.
The following changes will be implemented after the updates on Oct 26th, 2017.
 
■ 할로윈의 악몽 이벤트 Nightmare of Halloween Event
- 사전 공지 드렸던 내용 중 '조마조마한 할로윈 트릭'의 랜덤 상태효과를 아래와 같이 변경합니다. Thrilling Halloween Trick's random effect will be changed as below
: 20초 동안 크리티컬이 발동되지 않음 → 20초 동안 밸런스 3만큼 감소
: No critical for 20 seconds -> balance will be reduced by 3 points for 20 seconds.
: 즐거움을 드리고자 준비한 이벤트로 불편을 드려 대단히 죄송합니다.
: We sincerely appologize for an unintended inconvenience.
-- pretty much imitated NA's halloween event for year 2017-- 

■ 캐릭터 조정 Character Balancing.
[리시타] Lann
- '앱솔루트 퓨리' 스킬의 일부 기능을 변경합니다.
- The attributes of 'Absolute Fury' will be changed.
: 발동 조작 키를 일반공격 키로 변경합니다.
: Command input will be now => While sprinting - smash - normal attack
: SP소모량을 50으로 변경합니다.
: SP consumption will be changed to 50.
: 재사용시간을 20초로 적용합니다.
: it gets 20 seconds cooldown.
 
- '스피어대시' 이후 '대시 스매시'로 연결되지 않도록 수정합니다.
- 'sprint smash' will not be activated after the Spear Dash.
_________________________________
The 26th October patch, KR server Lann players expected the current director considered their opinions. Mostly, the players wanted to roll back the 'Absoulte Fury' however, the director changed the input commands as he posted in the patch note.
Image 1





On the 1st image, the lann players are expressing disappointments & frustrations to the update, also to the current director as well. Majority of the comments are about their distrusts & disappointments to the developers & the current director, problems caused by the new 'Absolute Fury,' or simply giving up their Lanns and quitting the game entirely.

The reasons behind such responses as follows.
--Sprint Smash Bug--
Sample video from Junyoop.



starting from 33:20 of the clip, you see that "Gliding Fury" gets counted as a critical hit, but sprint smash takes the place instead of "Lightning Fury," which seemed to be a bug. The KR players found out that this bug occurs if they were holding the sprint button, which makes a player to constantly release the button every moment.

Simply.
1. Lann tries a smash attack (including a sprint smash)
2. the smash did not become a critical hit, so Lann presses a normal attack button.
- There, you have your risk that lightning fury will go off, intead of the normal attack that you intended.

Gliding Fury bug.
1. Lann's Sprint smash became critical hit, so he glides.
2. gliding fury becomes critical hit, so Lann presses smash again to use Lightning Fury.
3. due to glitch, if you were holding the sprint button at that time, sprint smash will go off, not the lightning fury.

Since a lanns often use sprint smash to use GF->LF combo much as they can in short amount of time (GF->LF is the main damage & SP source for sword lanns), this bug does interfere the Lann's DPS cycle severely (according to my investigations, this issue happens to spears as well). it has been at least 10 days after the patch, however this bug has not been fixed yet.


--Inefficiency of Absolute Fury--

The new input of Absolute Fury is now 'While sprinting, Smash button - normal attack.'
Though SP consumption has been reduced to 50, a lot of experiments from KR players point out that 'the new input still intereferes the DPS flow much as the old command.'

Image 2



Translation:
Comment 1: the core issue was that Absolute Fury was interfering the current DPS cycle. Yet, the new director still left the Absolute Fury, while the sprint issue that cancels necessary recoil delay for gliding fury still exists. Seriously.. this director is competely a stubborn while he is ****.
Comment 2: After sprint smash and if it doesn't crit, so people pressed left mouse button. Would they do that to use Absolute Fury, or more people trying to cancel into a normal attack?
Comment 3: Ofcourse they are trying to cancel into a normal attack~

Based on the fact that Absolute Fury was inefficient, and even the new input command is still interfering severly for Lann's dps flow, a lot of KR server lanns suggested it would have been better if it was changed to a grab or kick button, just like the change occurred to Fiona's Shield charge.

Image 4.


Summary: the author in the image actually suggested about the new input command for the Absolute Fury. However, after having discussions, the author and KR lann community verified the issues that will be caused by the new input command of Absolute Fury (while sprint, Smash - normal attack), which will interfering the flow into other smashes, such as Rising Crescent or Pummel storm, in case a sprint smash does not become a critical.

Ex. 1. sprint smash does not become a critical hit,
2. so a lann tries to use normal hit - smash to get a critical chance for GF
3. due to new input command, you still have a risk that will trigger Absolute Fury instead.

Thus, the KR Lann community asked to change the input command of Absolute Fury to 'While sprint, Smash button - Grab or kick,' since setting it into a grab key would interfere much less compared to both old and new input command. This suggestion was posted 3 days before the patch on 26th, Oct 2017, however was never taken into consideration by the developers according to the responses.


Another post from Binsam, one of the Top Lann players in KR, showing a ticket submitted to KR developers. Binsam allowed me to add his posts so NA can be well informed about the damage from the patches.



Translation: We asked to roll back the thing you made, because it was so futile.. Yet, you let it through, only because of it's your idea?
Would it kill you to take a look at the ideas from the players once a while to change Lann and stop yourselves from being trapped in your small world?

- You can use ‘Absolute Fury’ if you trained ‘Gliding Fury’ to rank 9 or higher.
: the input command is 2 x Smash Button while you sprint.
: It costs 250 SP, basically same as ‘Gliding Fury’ but it is faster, will be activated regardless of your critical rate.
: if it becomes critical, you can link it to ‘Lightning Fury.’
- A change will be applied so that you can either sprint or use ‘Slip Dash’ faster than current.
- A change will be applied so that you can use ‘Spear Dash’ immediately after ‘Fury’ Skills.

Look, this is your 19th Oct Patch note, right? Want me to inform you how it should have been worded?
- A change will be applied so that you can use ‘Spear Dash’ immediately after ‘Fury’ Skills.
This sentence, would have been enough for us.
Everything else? You should take them out, since they're nothing but complete wastages.
Seriously, you guys are clearly telling us that you don't know this character since Lann is an old character, then why you guys keep massing up the character for?
Since you're just massing up the character because of your lack of understanding, why don't you just *** leave him alone?
Or at least take the opinions from the several players who fully understand Lann?
A lot of lann players waited this week that at least rolling back Lann would be better, but the result is just no different. We're completely dissapointed with what you've done.
Next week, we seriously tell you to re-do Lann.
IF you really don't want to delete your 'Absolute Garbage,' just make it an active skill, got it?

***Binsam's comment to KR forum***
They are trying go away with this, we should not tolerate them at all.
I'm sure these guys are not going to roll back, so that was the reason why I added the last part.


So longstory short on how 26th Oct Patch in KR server harmed the Lann population.
- Absolute Fury has been changed
- New input = While Sprinting, smash button - normal attack
- SP consumption 50
- 20 seconds cooldown.
- however the changes are still interfering
- due to new input command, after any smash attack, if you try to use other skills such as Rising Crescent, or Pummel storm and so on, you still have a risk that Absolute fury will go off.
- KR Lanns suggested other input methods due to the reason above 3 days prior to the patch, however was never taken into a consideration according to the responses from players.
- Bug issues still remain.
- When Gliding Fury becomes critical, if you were holding sprint button, then sprint smash will go off instead of Lightning Fury. This bug was found on the day of the patch and reported, however not fixed at all.
- Spear Lann's bug issue that not allowing to Spear dash while Fury Infusion or the vice versa, has not fixed yet still. you still have to force cut off the DPS flow for either methods.
- as the result, Lanns in KR are either giving up or quitting the game much as Karoks do.

****What is going on with Karoks? Was it really a fair nerf, or a annihilation of the Karok population?****
on the 19th Oct patch, Karoks had a huge nerf in KR, which is being criticized that the KR server Developers have annihilated Karok Populations, which were generally 3% of overall players. What really happened here?

19th Oct patch note for Karok:

[카록] Karok
1. 공통 Common
- 힘겨루기 사용 후 적용되는 근육 경련 상태효과의 내용을 수정합니다.
- Cooldown on clash will be adjusted
: 지속시간이 스킬 랭크와 무관하게 20분으로 통일됩니다. (제압 스킬과 동일)
: Cooldown will be fixed to 20minutes regardless of the skill rank.
: 근육 경련 상태에서 추가 공격 속도가 붙게 됩니다.
: you’ll be given attack speed buff while your clash is on cooldown.
: 근육 경련 상태효과가 행동불능이 되어도 남아있게 됩니다.
: the cooldown will remain even if you are incapacitated.
 
2. 배틀필러 Battle Pillar
- 바이슨 폼으로 획득한 상태효과의 내용을 수정합니다.
- Effect gained from Bison Form will be changed.
: 증가한 공격 속도가 공격 이외에는 적용되지 않도록 변경합니다.
: the attack speed buff will not be applied other than attack, it won’t be applied to movement speed.
: 바이슨 폼으로 증가하는 공격 속도를 10으로 고정합니다.
: attack speed gathered from Bison Form will be fixed to 10.

- 데들리 스톰프 상태효과의 내용을 수정합니다.
- Effect gained from Bison Form will be changed.

: 증가한 공격 속도가 공격 이외에는 적용되지 않도록 변경합니다.
: the attack speed buff will not be applied other than attack, it won’t be applied to movement speed.

: 데들리 스톰프로 증가하는 공격 속도를 40으로 고정합니다. 
 : attack speed gathered from Bison Form will be fixed to 40.

3. 블래스터 Cestus
- ‘버스트: 돌격’의 상태효과 내용을 수정합니다.
- ‘Blast: Terror Rush’s effect will be changed.

: 증가한 공격 속도가 공격 이외에는 적용되지 않도록 변경합니다.
: the attack speed buff will not be applied other than attack, it won’t be applied to movement speed.

: 공격 속도 증가 폭이 기본 공격 속도에 의해 영향 받지 않도록 합니다.
: the attack speed buff will not be affected by the base attack speed.
- 2타 스매시가 PVP에서는 스매시 적용을 받지 않도록 변경합니다.
- ‘Straight Shot’ will be no longer counted as a Smash attack while in PVP.

The main things in here will be the overall speed nerf on Karok, and long cooldown duration applied to clash.



Back to Junyoop's Video on 19th October patch, at 55:00 of the clip, you can see the changes happened to Karok.

First of all, you can see his traveling distance got shorter than before.
For the clash, Karok gained 11 ASPD, but 11 ASPD for 20 minutes...? considering other hold down skills do 1~1.5 bars to Ein Lacher boss,
the clash was also done to an Ein Lacher boss, and did 0.5 of a bar.. which is relatively low from my personal opinion.

In the clip, Joonyup also stated "I'm not sure about other things, but for the Clash however.. I personally thing it requires a buff..
but instead they nerfed it with 20min cooldown.. and only 11 aspd for the return for such long cooldown? I'm not really liking this.'

At 1:03:25 at the clip, you can see the changes that were mentioned for battle pillars, especially the movment speed
got much slower. Also the gained speed buff from bison form is now only affecting the attack speed, not affecting movement speed
anymore.

With the changes, we can see the Karok is generally now moving slow much as Lann does. Lann and Karok are both old characters.
Considering the newer characters have much superior movement skills and travel much further with a given dodge skill, Karok and Lann
are now considered as the probably the most slowest characters in the game, incapable of competing against newer characters at all.





Thus,, Karoks in KR server did request the roll back after the 19th, OCT patch much as the Lanns did.
However, the opinions from KR Karoks were completely ignored by the current director. On top of that,
the Karok population, which is less than 100 in KR server, is going through harsh discriminations
in the game, after the 19th of Oct patch.

As the result, KR server Karoks are taking one of these choices.
1. completely delete their characters and leave the game completely.
2. sell their gears and accounts through online, then delete the game.
3. try to convince the director again, which is a complete waste.

The KR server Karoks are still quitting as I am addressing this report. Some players in KR server actually
criticizing the current director, since his reckless patch is about to extinct an entire population of a character.

Following image is the letter from Katobless, one of the named Karok Player in KR


Translation:
"First of all, I don't mind if you reveal my IGN.

well.. the current Karok players are mostly those who been on this game for really long time,
however a lot of them are either quitting or not logging in.

Especially, a large number of Karok players quitted due to 19th Oct patch incident,
including those frequently active in the forum as well.

At least, we had barely a handful of 0~1 tier players, but they're all gone too.

I really wish that the current situation in KR gets delivered to there.. Hope things
don't go bad as here .

I apologize that I could not be more helpful to you."

Summary and personal assessment on Karok
- Karok now moves slow as Lann does.
- it may seem ok for PVP, but for in raids and dungeons, this seems critical,
especially the newer chars have much superior moving skills, or travel much
further with a same dodge skills.
- The 11 ASPD buff, it is fixed value, given for 20min cooldown on Clash probably inappropriate.
- Especially the damage is much lower than other holding skills, both the cooldown and ASPD buff during
cooldown should be reconsidered.
- As a personal assessment, this nerf on Karok, might actually be noxious to NA, since we're trying to merge the servers
due to low number of players.

Overall aftermath of both patches.
Overall, the patch seems like unsuccessful and uproared more than majority of the KR players. Due to harsh critiques, one of the forum conducted a survey to investigate the issues.

The first image shows the general character populations.


1. Delia - 9.3% (441 votes)
2. Miri (new char) - 9.3% (441 votes)
3. Arisha - 8.2% (387 votes)
4. Fiona, Longsword - 6.8% (320 votes)
5. Evie, Staff - 5.8% (273 votes)
6. Vella, Twin Sword - 5.5% (261 votes)
7. Evie, Scythe - 5.4% (257 votes)
8. Lynn, Glaive - 5.2% (247 votes)
9. Lann, Twin Sword 4.6% (219 votes)
10. Lynn, Blute - 4.6% (219 votes)
11. Kai, Crossgun - 4.6% (211 votes)
12. Lann, Twin Spear - 4.3% (203 votes)
13. Karok, Cestus - 4.3% (201 votes)
14. Hurk, Greatsword - 4.1% (195 votes)
15. Vella, Chainblade - 3.3% (157 votes)
16. Karok, Battlepillar - 3.3% (156 votes)
17. Sylas, Phantom Dagger - 3.3% (155 votes)
18. Fiona, Long Hammer - 3% (141 votes)
19. Kai, Bow - 2.9% (139 votes)
20. Hurk, Teide - 2%. (96 votes)
Total participants = 1809 players.

**Bold fonted Characters are the ones affected by Patches, 19th and 26th of Oct, 2017**
So far, KR server has 12 characters, 20 classes since Miri came out (also, Miri was nerfed during patch of 19th, OCT 2017. However, players found out that Miri is a lot easier than old day Omni god Hurk, while she's still a tier 1 DPS'er, majority of the KR players argue that has Miri been truely nerfed or not.) At least 1/3 of the KR server population are focused to Arisha, Delia, Miri and Sword Fiona, indicating the population is more focused to either buffed or top DPSers from the new patch. Also, showing that they're also the characters affected by the patches from 19th and 26th of Oct 2017.

Survey Image 2. Which of the characters does require most urgent modifications?



1. Lann, Twin Sword - 15.3% (748 votes)
2. Delia, Bastard Sword - 11.4% (555 votes)
3. Vella, Twin Sword - 10.1% (494 votes)
4. Fiona, Longsword - 9.1% (442 votes)
5. Lann, Twin spear - 7.1% (347 votes)
6. Kai, Bow - 7.1% (347 votes)
7. Karok, Battlepillar - 5.5% (267 votes)
8. Karok, Cestus - 4.5% (221 votes)
9. Sylas - phantom dagger 3.4% (168 votes)
10. Miri - 3.4% (165 votes)
11. Evie, staff - 3.3% (163 votes)
12. Fiona, Long hammer - 3% (145 votes)
13. Lynn, Glaive - 2.9% (140 votes)
14. Evie, Scythe - 2.8% (135 votes)
15. Arisha, Spellsword - 2.3% (111 votes)
16. Hurk, Teide -2.3% (110 votes)
17. Lynn, Blute - 2% (96 votes)
18. Vella, Chainblade - 1.7% (81 votes)
19. Kai, Crossgun - 1.4% (70 votes)
20. Hurk, Greatsword - 1.4% (68 votes)
Total participants: 1760 players.


Suvery image 3. Overall satisfactory.


1. Dissatisfied - 64.4% 1093 votes
2. Do not feel any big difference - 27.9% 473 votes
3. satisfied - 7.7% 131 votes

Total votes: 1697 participants.