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@noctred -> Vindi became same gridfest as BDO (or is slowly becoming), BDO at least got more things to do and it isn't purely pve oriented as vindi.
But if you don't care about the other things, does it really matter? If all I care about is fighting interesting bosses, does it matter that BDO lets me sail around in the ocean? Breed horses? Tend farms? Deliver trade crates to the other side of the world? Play an empire management minigame? Explore the world? Participate in superior (yet still mostly broken) PvP? AFK at the Heidel warehouse for 90% of my logged in time and still make billions per month?
It just doesn't matter because the one thing I play Vindi for is the one thing I can't do in BDO.
When I find something that fills Vindi's niche better. Maybe when MOnster Hunter World releases on PC? Dunno how that game stands up really. Haven't looked into it all that much.
I APOLOGISE IN ADVANCE FOR THE HUGE WALL OF TEXT. I UNDERLINED THE MOST IMPORTANT STATEMENTS, HOPEFULLY, FOR BETTER VIEWERSHIP...
What made Vindictus unique
1. Raids were worth it to be called like that. The difficulty modes were representative of reality.
In the past you could tell the difference between a regular battle and a raid boss. Boss fights required you to team up in order to face them and they were no joke. Many players were choosing to do the normal raid mode until they could get familiar with the boss’s attack patterns and even come up with a strategy of how to deal with him. Failing a raid and having to do it again was a common happening. There was more cooperation. Some will claim that palalas in order against Blood Lord are not cooperation and that might be true. Still, there were many times when you had to speak with your teammates before starting a battle, so that everyone would follow a specific task in order to make it easier to get those Break offs. For example, Fionas used to stay back and tank Irukul’s hits until everyone could break the ice to move on. For all these reasons players were required to dodge and stand still to drink pots, an animation that could have you get into trouble If you had been close to the boss and required timing. But it was fun.
2. The Characters were harder. They even had some distinctive characteristics.
All of the old characters were challenging. They required more attention and thinking.
a) Lann was everyone’s favorite character, but it was not possible for all of them to play him properly, because he was too risky. He had lower i-frames and required timing.
b) Fiona from the past has nothing in common with the current Fiona. They may as well give her a new name now. All of the Fionas were using a large shield for raids. Using a small shield was considered risky because the chances of them getting destroyed and leaving her defenseless were high. Perfect counters were a must so that your shield would last longer and sp for the “shield repair” skill was required. Her hammer had an incredibly long recovery time, during which she couldn’t block.
c) The same happened to staff Evie. She had low defense, a unique crystal to protect herself and she had to use all her tools in order to survive. Using her pistols while soloing was common in order to keep the boss’s attention away from her. She was hard.
d) Karok hasn’t changed as much, I think. But Cestus Karok required more timing. He has i-frames only on specific smash moves, but at that time not all the chars were fast. He was slower, so more thought and timing were needed in order to match those smashes with the boss’s attack patterns.
e) Sword Vella didn’t have as much variety in the past. She was mainly using her 2nd smashes, which was one of the reasons that led her to run out of stamina all the time. Stamina management was crucial for her. Slashing high was really important but it always costed too much sp. She had to face the boss in order to counter and sometimes she preferred to simply dodge in order to reach the 3rd blade heart state first, so that she gets to deal more dmg.
f) Arisha required more thought and effort from the player to deal high dmg . Learning when was the right time to use your counters in order to get max mana was a must.
I skipped some chars between Vella and Arisha because I don’t know much about them but that doesn’t mean they were not different. They were all fun and challenging. From Sylas and onwards every char is easy and as such, hasn’t changed much.
3. More armor choices that looked as awesome as the cash shop equivalents. Differences among your armor choices according to your character.
We used to simply farm in order to craft armors and see how our char looked like when equipping them. This was actually both a goal and an incentive that made us want to do those raids. It was fun. In other MMORPGS your only choice was to buy the good looking armors whereas in Vindictus everything looked cool. Who can forget that Lann trailer where he was wearing that sexy black coloured dark crest armor set? I’m sure many wanted to play the game for that reason alone. Also, there is no other MMORPG where your armors get partially destroyed! This is both cool for perverts… but also because it’s realistic for this to happen during a fight. There was also a weight system and we chose our armors based on our chars. Who can forget the cloth armors Evie was wearing? This had made her riskier, this had made her more distinctive compared to other chars, this had made her fun.
4. New players were able to farm and craft whatever they needed BY THEMSELVES. Old raids and battles were always relevant. Stats and items required, were logical. SKILLS > STATS
People were always “bashing on” new players. They didn’t want to carry them. And that was logical. Yet new players were not doomed. There were many items you could farm in order to make money by yourself in specific places. Do I need an enthusiastic enchant scroll? I don’t have money but I can farm the Inverse Blade and get it by myself. Stat requirements in the past were not as much complicated. All you had to do was mainly enhance, find scrolls and enchant. This was the main concept and it wasn’t forced upon you. A skillful player with a +12 weapon and low defense, due to not having enhanced armors, would always stand out compared to a +15 noob, as long as they were capable of not getting hit and they knew how to use their character. The Combo System would always reward you and it was an incentive for you to do those raids, for you to stay in this game, on your own free will, and improve even your stats. It was fun.
THE GAME WAS MORE HONEST WITH YOU IN THE PAST. NOW IT’S A DIRTY ABOMINATION.
After the “Premiere” migration, “Downfall” update…
1. Raids did not last long. Bosses were getting suppressed and stunlocked to death. Fortunately, the devs actually realized that they were getting raped by 8 man parties so they changed it. Having 4 players doing those “raids” is more logical. Since they chose the mobile games and Black Desert route, thinking that turning the game into easy mode would bring them more money, it was inevitable. Making the raids hard again doesn’t make sense to the devs. The way we do raids right now has completely changed. All we care about is our damage and our pseudo-egos, while believing that this one orange drop will make us rich. We are always in front of the boss, we never stop to help revive people. The boss is simply a mob that tries to fight us, We are the Boss. Why do you care so much about consumables that have a time limit? We are so over buffed that we simply believe we are pros by face tanking , since we are first in that ending screen. Even the way that ending screen has changed represents the current situation. We could see more details in the past. I used to see how many hits I got, if I were the one that gave the final blow, even more simple things, like my SSS style for not getting hit. Now ONLY DAMAGE DEALT. We used to call people noobs for using merc. recovery potions from MP, because these health potions had no animation and they were promoting face tanking. Now us “PROS” do the same thing as noobs.
2. Over the years our chars have changed to the point where you can’t recognize them anymore. Some changes were good, they actually helped some chars and gave them more variaty. But overall most changes didn’t happen because of imbalances, but mostly in order to oversimplify all chars and make them more manageable for both the devs and the players. They gave you so much power to the point where you are the boss while getting rid of what made your char unique. I wanted to give more details but I don’t want to start a war. I am sure everyone deep down knows that their main char with whom they have been playing since their release is, definitely, easier now compared to how he/she was. There are no hard chars, all of them are the same. And if you disagree, do me a favor and try to play with a char from a fighting game properly and then compare their gameplay with your Vindictus char. At least there, players like Tokido are truly skillful.
3. S3 raids armor… Dullahan set, Dullahan weapon… enough said. Apparently we don’t need more because differences among plate, heavy, light and cloth armors simply do not exist anymore. Only light armors are the King, but ohh wait a minute…, the Dullahan set is a plate armor…more defense right? Other armors? In the cash shop where you can’t even get them because first you need to play lottery, which is mostly exclusive only to our credit card “PROS”, who, you’ve guessed it, also happen to be first in the “leaderboards”. Just keep on making DOL richer and promote the cleverness inside his pants. Trust me, dressing a real woman costs way less and at least in the end you have higher chances of getting laid than getting a +15 weapon (I don’t even need to say +20). No more partially destroyed armors. A “Pro” player should always wear a sexy cash shop outfit which is always revealing after all.
4. Congratulations. You’ve reached the best part... I guess? Nowadays most players except for the older ones, maybe?, do not know exactly what to farm, what will wield them the most profit. Everything is just too much complicated, a true mess. What should I do first? Get a +15 weapon, +15 armors, ADD damage, Att limit release, infused accessories, enchanted armors all of them consisting of orange parts with different balance, critical, attack, defense etc. These are all the steps you need to take in order to become a “PRO”. Do you believe that the new player is going to do all that Nexon? That new player, for whom DOL destroyed the game, will simply leave the game when he realizes that he will never see that ending screen the way he wants it to be. There are only 2 options: You either work as a slave to farm money in order to buy everything from someone else, who is always the same “lucky” person that has too many +15 to sell to his beloved friends… while he also magically happens to be in the leaderboards. So you just gave your hard earned in-game money to someone who already has everything in order to get half of what he has, while at the same time you enable him to always be above you… right? The second option is to become like him. Make DOL rich, follow the cash path to becoming a “PRO”, only to realize in the end that you still don’t have as much as that old Credit Card “PRO” player unless you are crazy enough and sell your liver. Everything is a vicious circle, a dead end with no return. Ohh… and you probably guessed it. Even if you are able to never get hit you will NEVER deal more dmg than them in that notorious ending screen. They will always “beat” you even with 1%. Just give up.
New YouTube “PROS” (The real “Pros”):Over buffed players who, even though they are over capped, they still use all the stimulants available in-game, all the now limited time buffs, even that add damage pot that, supposedly, doesn’t exist anymore, in order to do a 3 min face tanking raid. Please…just go and watch the Megalo Box anime. Gearless Joe is the true PRO!
Older YouTube PROS: Players with good stats and skills who were using an add damage pot, in order to make an extremely long fight, that they were not even able to finish in time, a little bit faster. Pros that needed to dodge and pay lots of attention, use all their char’s skills as much efficiently as possible so that they can truly achieve their goal.
My Advice: You need to move on. Stop supporting Vindictus’s conversion into a public prostitute. The true Vindictus has already died, stop disgracing it. I am not suggesting you play Black Desert. It’s true, Vindictus has become exactly like this trash, nothing more than a Barbie simulator. Many say there is no other game like Vindictus, but this statement is partially true. I moved on to Souls-like games like the Dark Souls franchise, Nioh, Bloodborne and hopefully soon Code Vein and I don’t regret it. I finally remembered I play games for FUN and not as a job. Will you follow me?
@TheStatsHero
I respect that you put the time to write all that and forgive me if I'm missing your point when I make my arguments.
1) True, the direction Vindictus is heading is slightly more casual than before. All of the difficulty seems to be put into the redeemer battles, but like any of the old raids back then they can be learned and prepared for making it seem not so difficult. What might be easy for you and me might be difficult for someone new. It's all perspective.
2) I do have to say you're wrong about the characters. Some of the changes were necessary as the raid mechanics changed and new characters were introduced disrupting the balance. You can't play a spear lann with no invuln in let's say Neam, sword vella would be cancer in almost anything if she was left the way she was, staffie is much more dynamic than before (idk if that would make it harder I never played original staffie), arisha is basically the same before instead of mana issues it's now stamina , and I can't say anything for fifi or karok. There are many characters that still need some more rework, but anything now is better than before. Again difficulty is relative and imo there are still some characters with weapons that require skill, while I do agree not as much as before.
3) A good amount of armor is still around with some that are gone with rise that I can't name off the top of my head. Character specific sets are still around and from what I've seen not all players look alike if you're worried about individuality. I'm all for the simplification of armor because 4 armor types with 3 different types of enchant scrolls is too much. And let's be honest the weight system was not a good way to distinguish the differences between characters. I too am disappointed in the lack of new armor and all their new designs are being made into gacha outfitters that your average players usually can't afford.
4) New players can still farm by themselves in S2 Raids for Enthusiastic and other scrolls. You say that older content used to be relevant and it still is. What used to be new before like S2 is now old content. If what you want is to incorporate them to end game content, I don't think it would be a bad idea like maybe make an abyssal arena or special dungeon for s2 raid bosses. Attack requirement boats in the past say otherwise to your point of skill > stats. And you can't say that we know who the skilled players are then it would just be a popularity contest and it would be popularity > stats which would really be a problem. +15 used to be the only goal not too long ago and then nothing else would matter. +15's used to be rare and now you see them at least once every time you log on. Making all these other stats matter adds to a higher goal which gives players more purpose to play the game. Sure there are wallet warriors, but nobody is forcing you to spend money on this game. P2W will always be a thing and it wouldn't bother you so much if your goal wasn't to be top damage all the time in a PVE game. It's not as if you're rewarded for getting top damage in raids anyways. Sure I may be hypocritical when I say this since I rather see myself being top damage as much as the next person, but there is more to this game than just that.
Your comment should be its own post and although what you say is related to this thread, it is not relevant here if all you have to say is give up on this game. Also on a side note passionate vindi player and "moved on" doesn't sound right to me so not so passionate anymore.
I can say that I agree with most of TheStatsHero statements, especially 4 point just hit the nail on the head.
Discussion in this matter is pointless and I don’t need to mention any more, its well said enough.
The one thing that I want to do before “give up” is get into the group whose holding lair over the case of Vindictus and be heard with all other players. Not to beg or demand something but just to let them know about our disappointment.
I just can’t accept that game such as Vindictus will end-up like casual Action co-op MMO, without matter of skill and other lofty stuff.
In that case I will continue to gathering informations and searching for resolve this problem.
I'm not used to giving up and that’s why I’m going to achieve the goal no matter the cost.
If there we will reach an impasse soon, I will be proud of the case that we fought for anyway.
In addition I would like to thank every player for appreciation and I wish you all the best.
Your absurd wall of text can be summed down to one phrase: get with the times. It's so obvious that you stopped playing at least 4 years ago, so all of what you said is simple nostalgia bait rather than actual criticism of the current state of the game.
1. Raids are still hard. Maybe not YOUR old raids that you remember them, but the current relevant ones still are. Blood Lord and Irukul was 5 years ago. Get with the times.
2. Most of the chars you describe still work the same way. They still require timing and precision or else you'd eat dirt. They are just more streamlined than they are before. Get with the times.
3. FUSION RUNES. This was the most ridculous point. Get with the times
4. Newer players were even more punished back then than they are now. You literally cannot farm some endgame scrolls without a semblance of gear. Even if you are the god of Vindictus, you cannot get past the stat wall of hero Inversed Blade. Remember correctly, then get with the times.
"After the premiere migration..." This is obvious where you stopped playing.
1. NO ONE wants battles where you have to actually lose money on consumables and pushing the 60 minute time limit to finish. Back then in the era that you were playing, it'd take months to progress a pubic hair. Time is money. Understand what time is and then get with the time.
2. The chars are more closely balanced than they were ever before. The chars didn't lose their uniqueness with any revamps. Learning a character didn't get any easier, only more streamlined. Get with the times.
3. 1 set of endgame armor is an easier goal to strive towards than the maze of cloth, light, heavy plate. Getting a +15 is hard in every era of Vindictus. There are legitimate points regarding this topic that I want to give more details about, but you are not informed enough to bother. Get with the times.
4. Gear intricacies? In an MMO? God forbid. Even so, it was more convoluted back then on what to do and get than it is now.
You worked more as a slave in the era that you were playing than now. There are ways now where anyone of any gear level can farm for money.
Speaking of money, do you know how currency work? YES, you DO use your hard earned money to exchange for items you need. Why do you care what the seller has as long as you got what you want with the gold you earned? Do you know how the world works?
Get with the times.
5 "Youtube pros"
You're clearly only looking at videos of people who stim to make this argument. I can go back 6 years to the introduction of stims and you can see them use it. There are still insane solos now. Search for any Neamhain or Balor solo. Get with the times.
Conclusion: This thread has become nostalgia bait to steer the bias a certain way. Even OP supports these out of date points. If you wanna stay away from Vindictus, do so. Don't just randomly come back and make out of date "criticism" that shows you just reading patch notes, if at all, rather than playing the game over the years.
I'm mad at you but even more mad at myself for reading your stupid essay thinking there'd be any good points in here. Get with the times.
Your absurd wall of text can be summed down to one phrase: get with the times. It's so obvious that you stopped playing at least 4 years ago, so all of what you said is simple nostalgia bait rather than actual criticism of the current state of the game.
Pretty much my thoughts. All the bolding and underlining in the world can't hide the dripping melodrama which mostly overshadows any valid points which may have been made - of which there were few.
I think that you misunderstood couple of things.
This thread is the same, main topic about changes that should improve the game as well.
Other players comments is just free discussion about various couple of things.
Otherwise some of those comments can be threat like bait, nostalgia memories or even good ideas that can be add into the general list in Main Thread (for example: Marketplace in Berbe that I added 2 day ago).
I can agree with most of your shouts as I can agree with other players because you are talking about different part of the game.
However list of changes is the same, you can agree or not, we will respect that.
You can comment whatever you want and talk about your vision of the whole matter.
Nobody will judge you, even trolls like Jinxi who said that we need 5-10 channels… well ok; we can say, not 10 but 50 it should be better.
You can treat comments here serious and is obvious, we need to respect all of them, but matter of the Main Thread not changing so try to focus on your opinion in the aspect of the whole case.
For now we are between “Interest other players with matter of game” > “Find a way to get into custodial people and try to change things that pisses us of in Vindictus as well”
Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, I can feel my 8man raids and my add damage... even my combo... the playerbase I've lost... the comrades I've lost... won't stop hurting. It's like they're all still there. You feel it too, don't you? I'm the one who got caught up with Nexon. A company above publishers... even the Aeria Games. And I was the parasite below, feeding off Devcat power. They came after you in season2... then season3... Nexon... just keeps growing. Swallowing everything in it's path. Getting bigger and bigger... Who knows how big now? I'm gonna make 'em give back our past... take back everything that we've lost. And I won't rest... until we do.
To Okayyy
*4. Newer players were even more punished back then than they are now.*
The Game punished they or the Players punished they? like now hoster want 28k-31k in berbhe or kick for fast end and yes is the same think from older malina 18k-20k well hoster decide party but..... O_o who punish who?
We have different visions but it is something I do not understand since I started with evie (yes my main was evie) many years ago I never felt bad if I died alone or if I kept trying things on my own since the game had its grace in difficulty to any raid and the truth if they take me out of a party because they miss it because the practice you get to have when you try a bit is overwhelming. That's why I need to know your point about who *punish*.
I see rather that you progress and then you show that you are there with a little or a lot of gear but they know you and they know that you will do everything possible from your practices to try not to fail.
I think my text has been shorter take your time for read has i also read others pls ;P
Hello there.
Just leave a note if you agree with that thread and to let everybody know that you want those changes; the more votes we gather, the more powerful this ticket become. Your own opinions about those things are also welcome. To the point.
I will start a little dreamily, however, I hope that the message will be well understood.
Is there any confirmation from the Nexon that all this feedback will be transferred to the developers? If not, then all this is useless.
@Okayyy
I believe I know what you just did. From the start you created a specific image of me, as a player who has already quitted for 4 years. Based on this, you took most of MY “stupid” (as you said) arguments out of context and distorted them in order for them to suit your own “pure” beliefs. Even your initial base is faulty. First, you said it’s been 4 years since I quitted, then you said I stopped when the migration happened. From what I experienced, EU’s migration, fortunately after many delays, has been completed 1 year ago during February-March 2017 (after Neam, the only real challenge, has been released for a while) and USA’s merge happened this year. Apparently, all of them happened recently. Please make up your mind, tell me exactly how much retarded I’m.
I’ll only agree with the fact that I’m indeed nostalgic. But why is this being portrayed as sth bad? If sth worked fine in the past, at least from my point of view, why should we degrade it so much? I’m sorry If I burst your bubble, but I think many would argue that sth has gone wrong with Vindictus. I may as well follow your example and claim that you are a new “pure” player who hasn’t experienced much, so you can’t tell the difference and everything seems perfect, like a dream world.
@Jinyie
Thank you for your constructive criticism. You are entitled to your own opinion and I really appreciate you took the time to read my “book” full of misery (hopefully with some helpful facts) and comment. In the first half of my arguments, which is a little bit irrelevant to the thread, I wanted to remind people how the game was and in the second, make a comparison to how it is right now. I even agree with some of your points but, unfortunately, you also misinterpreted some of my arguments. I don’t want to go into further detail, but this is logical for 2 reasons:
a. My arguments were massive, as a result of extreme grief due the game’s current state.
b. We have different perspectives, due to experiencing the game differently. I’m an XE player, you are, probably, from Premiere and you don’t know about the combo system, for instance. I’m not trying to say that the combo system was impeccable, but for me it felt better. Maybe OrtRisa’s suggestion for debuffs could be better. Please take my arguments with a grain of salt.
@OrtRisa
It’s obvious I’m extremely disappointed and pessimistic, to the point where I may over exaggerate. I may even call myself a hypocrite, because I still look at the forums and the news about Vindictus from time to time. But the reason is…, I still hope a miracle might happen. I like your attitude of not giving up and I wish you could make that miracle a reality. Hopefully, this thread will reach DOL’s ears… and it won’t be another generic thread full of “empty” words. Otherwise, moving on is the only solution.
Thank you all, I won’t comment anymore (because I’m both boring and bored… xD ). Feel free to hate me or ignore me, but I wish you all find true happiness.
For my opinion better than lowers the total number of channels.
Nah, bullshit. Its totally useless and it makes the game look even more sh!t than it already is.
We want people in all the towns, Make 5 channels max. Tadaa.
Yeah f this. Anyone with a slightly less than high end comp unless running a f@!#ing pentium will have a stupid amount of lag just trying to move through out town.
Unrelated to that mess up there, I also think there should be a neutral option for your poll. That’s honestly where I fall in. I don’t agree with all of OP’s points, but would be content as long as vindi stays up and running. I’m only looking for small tweaks to our quality of experience.
1.) Regarding the 4-8 player raids the main issue with that is since the game's engine is VERY dated and Nexon Higher Ups is probably the one doing the final decision making on DevCAT's agenda it's honestly hard to make 8 man raids an enjoyable experience without some sort if performance issue in the engines current state. Moving the game to a new engine is very possible however that would require A LOT of money in Engine Licensing fees as a corporation (hence why DevCAT isn't doing it). Don't get me wrong Nexon KR makes way more money than any region but as a whole corporation they don't. That's probably whats preventing DevCAT to make that decision to either do an entirely new engine or do an entire massive overhaul.
2.) The Guild stats I can see where you are coming from for sure. I think the guild stat thing can honestly be managed by the region that works on the game imo. So with the lack of players on NA/EU you guys could very well use that. KR doesn't have it because our population is still REALLY huge compared to NA/EU. I AM looking forward to the new Guild update so I can explore those changes so I'll post more on that when the time comes.
3.) Expiring Consumable items imo isn't needed. Especially the ones that are for joking around. Those should stay permanent lol. The ones that barely heal for anything I just delete cause they take up too much space xD (personal preference speaking on that part so disregard that).
4.) This is basically the biggest topic as a whole across all regions I think. Ever since this change the core concept of Vindictus is gone. The game used to be all about control (KR's way of saying skill) with practically every dungeon you ran. Now it's all about stats and merc pots. Granted they are keeping story content at a reasonable stat range but we just got Hell Mode (too early imo considering we don't have the necessary means to even get Neamhain to 9 bars in a matter of 10 minutes alone lol) and you basically need near a +20 right now to even do decent.
ADDITIONALLY: I did get a message on how KR deals with Performance issues with each update so I will answer this with more details on how our client works. So basically since DevCAT ARE the developers of the game they optimize the updates alone I'm sure. Because one single update alone doesn't impact the performance of our client 90% of the time. But as they DO add up we do feel the unoptimization. Though since i have a pretty powerful rig I can handle the game perfectly fine (so long as I don't stream which is....what I do....so I have to provide a crappy quality stream or remove my HUD for good frames). If you guys are getting super bad performance drops that are noticeable with each update then NA isn't bothering to optimize your updates. They are simply changing code to make it work and that's it. If I had to take a guess on how they receive the updates I would bet before Test Server even gets them in KR so they would get Dev Builds essentially. Meaning they have to work out the bugs on their own (I think most companies do this anyway due to locale differences on MMO development for each region but I could be wrong here entirely).
AS A FINAL SUGGESTION: It's gonna be hard since you are a smaller playerbase (or this can be easier for you compared to us.....depends....the size will play it's role) but if everyone in NA/EU actually bands together and tells NA the things that NEED to be fixed. I don't mean the things that involve gameplay mechanics but I mean for example the things that actually hinder the gameplays performance, and tbh you can even throw events in there as well as the outfits you guys STILL haven't receive (this entire suggestion is wishful thinking I know but I'm pretty sure if Nexon NA actually CARES for this game then they will do something if 90% of the playerbase voices their concerns and well....if 90% of the playerbase needs to stop logging in until they actually do something to get them to realize they need to take better care of this game then.....that's what it will take.....again though this is wishful thinking xD)
Final one I promise....lol: I'm a lot more reachable at my Twitch page since i stream basically everyday. Twitch page is on my profile.
Thank you very much for concern and I appreciate your statement.
However about your “final suggestion”... to encourage around 90% playerbase to carry out (something like a loggin strike) -
it's almost impossible even from an optimistic point of view.
Can’t say how many players from game my megaphones (lots of megaphones) just hook to looked up for support whole thread.
I'm not even saying about gather all of them to make a strike.
Too high level of cooperation skills in whole community, tough nut to crack i might say.
Anyway I will try to publish the whole matter even more, because why not?
In this case I already asked few redactors to public a news/post on forum and one is already viewed over 3.5k times.
Sadly I have no fb page, twitter, friends, slaves or anything similar
The worst is that from whole community there is just handful of players that actually interest and engage of whole case.
And even if I believe that more will come we are still unable to solidarize that much as we need to make it work proper.
Thank you very much for concern and I appreciate your statement.
However about your “final suggestion”... to encourage around 90% playerbase to carry out (something like a loggin strike) -
it's almost impossible even from an optimistic point of view.
Can’t say how many players from game my megaphones (lots of megaphones) just hook to looked up for support whole thread.
I'm not even saying about gather all of them to make a strike.
Too high level of cooperation skills in whole community, tough nut to crack i might say.
Anyway I will try to publish the whole matter even more, because why not?
In this case I already asked few redactors to public a news/post on forum and one is already viewed over 3.5k times.
Sadly I have no fb page, twitter, friends, slaves or anything similar
The worst is that from whole community there is just handful of players that actually interest and engage of whole case.
And even if I believe that more will come we are still unable to solidarize that much as we need to make it work proper.
Time will tell...
Yeah good point. Considering the cycle that's been going on for years and years it's hard to get the playerbase together for a cause like this because of the idea of that it will all be in vain.
Comments
please read my earlier post. hp scaling is exactly what I'm discussing with Ortix.
But if you don't care about the other things, does it really matter? If all I care about is fighting interesting bosses, does it matter that BDO lets me sail around in the ocean? Breed horses? Tend farms? Deliver trade crates to the other side of the world? Play an empire management minigame? Explore the world? Participate in superior (yet still mostly broken) PvP? AFK at the Heidel warehouse for 90% of my logged in time and still make billions per month?
It just doesn't matter because the one thing I play Vindi for is the one thing I can't do in BDO.
When I find something that fills Vindi's niche better. Maybe when MOnster Hunter World releases on PC? Dunno how that game stands up really. Haven't looked into it all that much.
What made Vindictus unique
1. Raids were worth it to be called like that. The difficulty modes were representative of reality.
In the past you could tell the difference between a regular battle and a raid boss. Boss fights required you to team up in order to face them and they were no joke. Many players were choosing to do the normal raid mode until they could get familiar with the boss’s attack patterns and even come up with a strategy of how to deal with him. Failing a raid and having to do it again was a common happening. There was more cooperation. Some will claim that palalas in order against Blood Lord are not cooperation and that might be true. Still, there were many times when you had to speak with your teammates before starting a battle, so that everyone would follow a specific task in order to make it easier to get those Break offs. For example, Fionas used to stay back and tank Irukul’s hits until everyone could break the ice to move on. For all these reasons players were required to dodge and stand still to drink pots, an animation that could have you get into trouble If you had been close to the boss and required timing. But it was fun.
2. The Characters were harder. They even had some distinctive characteristics.
All of the old characters were challenging. They required more attention and thinking.
a) Lann was everyone’s favorite character, but it was not possible for all of them to play him properly, because he was too risky. He had lower i-frames and required timing.
b) Fiona from the past has nothing in common with the current Fiona. They may as well give her a new name now. All of the Fionas were using a large shield for raids. Using a small shield was considered risky because the chances of them getting destroyed and leaving her defenseless were high. Perfect counters were a must so that your shield would last longer and sp for the “shield repair” skill was required. Her hammer had an incredibly long recovery time, during which she couldn’t block.
c) The same happened to staff Evie. She had low defense, a unique crystal to protect herself and she had to use all her tools in order to survive. Using her pistols while soloing was common in order to keep the boss’s attention away from her. She was hard.
d) Karok hasn’t changed as much, I think. But Cestus Karok required more timing. He has i-frames only on specific smash moves, but at that time not all the chars were fast. He was slower, so more thought and timing were needed in order to match those smashes with the boss’s attack patterns.
e) Sword Vella didn’t have as much variety in the past. She was mainly using her 2nd smashes, which was one of the reasons that led her to run out of stamina all the time. Stamina management was crucial for her. Slashing high was really important but it always costed too much sp. She had to face the boss in order to counter and sometimes she preferred to simply dodge in order to reach the 3rd blade heart state first, so that she gets to deal more dmg.
f) Arisha required more thought and effort from the player to deal high dmg . Learning when was the right time to use your counters in order to get max mana was a must.
I skipped some chars between Vella and Arisha because I don’t know much about them but that doesn’t mean they were not different. They were all fun and challenging. From Sylas and onwards every char is easy and as such, hasn’t changed much.
3. More armor choices that looked as awesome as the cash shop equivalents. Differences among your armor choices according to your character.
We used to simply farm in order to craft armors and see how our char looked like when equipping them. This was actually both a goal and an incentive that made us want to do those raids. It was fun. In other MMORPGS your only choice was to buy the good looking armors whereas in Vindictus everything looked cool. Who can forget that Lann trailer where he was wearing that sexy black coloured dark crest armor set? I’m sure many wanted to play the game for that reason alone. Also, there is no other MMORPG where your armors get partially destroyed! This is both cool for perverts… but also because it’s realistic for this to happen during a fight. There was also a weight system and we chose our armors based on our chars. Who can forget the cloth armors Evie was wearing? This had made her riskier, this had made her more distinctive compared to other chars, this had made her fun.
4. New players were able to farm and craft whatever they needed BY THEMSELVES. Old raids and battles were always relevant. Stats and items required, were logical. SKILLS > STATS
People were always “bashing on” new players. They didn’t want to carry them. And that was logical. Yet new players were not doomed. There were many items you could farm in order to make money by yourself in specific places. Do I need an enthusiastic enchant scroll? I don’t have money but I can farm the Inverse Blade and get it by myself. Stat requirements in the past were not as much complicated. All you had to do was mainly enhance, find scrolls and enchant. This was the main concept and it wasn’t forced upon you. A skillful player with a +12 weapon and low defense, due to not having enhanced armors, would always stand out compared to a +15 noob, as long as they were capable of not getting hit and they knew how to use their character. The Combo System would always reward you and it was an incentive for you to do those raids, for you to stay in this game, on your own free will, and improve even your stats. It was fun.
THE GAME WAS MORE HONEST WITH YOU IN THE PAST. NOW IT’S A DIRTY ABOMINATION.
After the “Premiere” migration, “Downfall” update…
1. Raids did not last long. Bosses were getting suppressed and stunlocked to death. Fortunately, the devs actually realized that they were getting raped by 8 man parties so they changed it. Having 4 players doing those “raids” is more logical. Since they chose the mobile games and Black Desert route, thinking that turning the game into easy mode would bring them more money, it was inevitable. Making the raids hard again doesn’t make sense to the devs. The way we do raids right now has completely changed. All we care about is our damage and our pseudo-egos, while believing that this one orange drop will make us rich. We are always in front of the boss, we never stop to help revive people. The boss is simply a mob that tries to fight us, We are the Boss. Why do you care so much about consumables that have a time limit? We are so over buffed that we simply believe we are pros by face tanking , since we are first in that ending screen. Even the way that ending screen has changed represents the current situation. We could see more details in the past. I used to see how many hits I got, if I were the one that gave the final blow, even more simple things, like my SSS style for not getting hit. Now ONLY DAMAGE DEALT. We used to call people noobs for using merc. recovery potions from MP, because these health potions had no animation and they were promoting face tanking. Now us “PROS” do the same thing as noobs.
2. Over the years our chars have changed to the point where you can’t recognize them anymore. Some changes were good, they actually helped some chars and gave them more variaty. But overall most changes didn’t happen because of imbalances, but mostly in order to oversimplify all chars and make them more manageable for both the devs and the players. They gave you so much power to the point where you are the boss while getting rid of what made your char unique. I wanted to give more details but I don’t want to start a war. I am sure everyone deep down knows that their main char with whom they have been playing since their release is, definitely, easier now compared to how he/she was. There are no hard chars, all of them are the same. And if you disagree, do me a favor and try to play with a char from a fighting game properly and then compare their gameplay with your Vindictus char. At least there, players like Tokido are truly skillful.
3. S3 raids armor… Dullahan set, Dullahan weapon… enough said. Apparently we don’t need more because differences among plate, heavy, light and cloth armors simply do not exist anymore. Only light armors are the King, but ohh wait a minute…, the Dullahan set is a plate armor…more defense right? Other armors? In the cash shop where you can’t even get them because first you need to play lottery, which is mostly exclusive only to our credit card “PROS”, who, you’ve guessed it, also happen to be first in the “leaderboards”. Just keep on making DOL richer and promote the cleverness inside his pants. Trust me, dressing a real woman costs way less and at least in the end you have higher chances of getting laid than getting a +15 weapon (I don’t even need to say +20). No more partially destroyed armors. A “Pro” player should always wear a sexy cash shop outfit which is always revealing after all.
4. Congratulations. You’ve reached the best part... I guess? Nowadays most players except for the older ones, maybe?, do not know exactly what to farm, what will wield them the most profit. Everything is just too much complicated, a true mess. What should I do first? Get a +15 weapon, +15 armors, ADD damage, Att limit release, infused accessories, enchanted armors all of them consisting of orange parts with different balance, critical, attack, defense etc. These are all the steps you need to take in order to become a “PRO”. Do you believe that the new player is going to do all that Nexon? That new player, for whom DOL destroyed the game, will simply leave the game when he realizes that he will never see that ending screen the way he wants it to be. There are only 2 options: You either work as a slave to farm money in order to buy everything from someone else, who is always the same “lucky” person that has too many +15 to sell to his beloved friends… while he also magically happens to be in the leaderboards. So you just gave your hard earned in-game money to someone who already has everything in order to get half of what he has, while at the same time you enable him to always be above you… right? The second option is to become like him. Make DOL rich, follow the cash path to becoming a “PRO”, only to realize in the end that you still don’t have as much as that old Credit Card “PRO” player unless you are crazy enough and sell your liver. Everything is a vicious circle, a dead end with no return. Ohh… and you probably guessed it. Even if you are able to never get hit you will NEVER deal more dmg than them in that notorious ending screen. They will always “beat” you even with 1%. Just give up.
New YouTube “PROS” (The real “Pros”): Over buffed players who, even though they are over capped, they still use all the stimulants available in-game, all the now limited time buffs, even that add damage pot that, supposedly, doesn’t exist anymore, in order to do a 3 min face tanking raid. Please…just go and watch the Megalo Box anime. Gearless Joe is the true PRO!
Older YouTube PROS: Players with good stats and skills who were using an add damage pot, in order to make an extremely long fight, that they were not even able to finish in time, a little bit faster. Pros that needed to dodge and pay lots of attention, use all their char’s skills as much efficiently as possible so that they can truly achieve their goal.
My Advice: You need to move on. Stop supporting Vindictus’s conversion into a public prostitute. The true Vindictus has already died, stop disgracing it. I am not suggesting you play Black Desert. It’s true, Vindictus has become exactly like this trash, nothing more than a Barbie simulator. Many say there is no other game like Vindictus, but this statement is partially true. I moved on to Souls-like games like the Dark Souls franchise, Nioh, Bloodborne and hopefully soon Code Vein and I don’t regret it. I finally remembered I play games for FUN and not as a job. Will you follow me?
Regards,
A 7-years old passionate Vindictus player
I respect that you put the time to write all that and forgive me if I'm missing your point when I make my arguments.
1) True, the direction Vindictus is heading is slightly more casual than before. All of the difficulty seems to be put into the redeemer battles, but like any of the old raids back then they can be learned and prepared for making it seem not so difficult. What might be easy for you and me might be difficult for someone new. It's all perspective.
2) I do have to say you're wrong about the characters. Some of the changes were necessary as the raid mechanics changed and new characters were introduced disrupting the balance. You can't play a spear lann with no invuln in let's say Neam, sword vella would be cancer in almost anything if she was left the way she was, staffie is much more dynamic than before (idk if that would make it harder I never played original staffie), arisha is basically the same before instead of mana issues it's now stamina , and I can't say anything for fifi or karok. There are many characters that still need some more rework, but anything now is better than before. Again difficulty is relative and imo there are still some characters with weapons that require skill, while I do agree not as much as before.
3) A good amount of armor is still around with some that are gone with rise that I can't name off the top of my head. Character specific sets are still around and from what I've seen not all players look alike if you're worried about individuality. I'm all for the simplification of armor because 4 armor types with 3 different types of enchant scrolls is too much. And let's be honest the weight system was not a good way to distinguish the differences between characters. I too am disappointed in the lack of new armor and all their new designs are being made into gacha outfitters that your average players usually can't afford.
4) New players can still farm by themselves in S2 Raids for Enthusiastic and other scrolls. You say that older content used to be relevant and it still is. What used to be new before like S2 is now old content. If what you want is to incorporate them to end game content, I don't think it would be a bad idea like maybe make an abyssal arena or special dungeon for s2 raid bosses. Attack requirement boats in the past say otherwise to your point of skill > stats. And you can't say that we know who the skilled players are then it would just be a popularity contest and it would be popularity > stats which would really be a problem. +15 used to be the only goal not too long ago and then nothing else would matter. +15's used to be rare and now you see them at least once every time you log on. Making all these other stats matter adds to a higher goal which gives players more purpose to play the game. Sure there are wallet warriors, but nobody is forcing you to spend money on this game. P2W will always be a thing and it wouldn't bother you so much if your goal wasn't to be top damage all the time in a PVE game. It's not as if you're rewarded for getting top damage in raids anyways. Sure I may be hypocritical when I say this since I rather see myself being top damage as much as the next person, but there is more to this game than just that.
Your comment should be its own post and although what you say is related to this thread, it is not relevant here if all you have to say is give up on this game. Also on a side note passionate vindi player and "moved on" doesn't sound right to me so not so passionate anymore.
Discussion in this matter is pointless and I don’t need to mention any more, its well said enough.
The one thing that I want to do before “give up” is get into the group whose holding lair over the case of Vindictus and be heard with all other players. Not to beg or demand something but just to let them know about our disappointment.
I just can’t accept that game such as Vindictus will end-up like casual Action co-op MMO, without matter of skill and other lofty stuff.
In that case I will continue to gathering informations and searching for resolve this problem.
I'm not used to giving up and that’s why I’m going to achieve the goal no matter the cost.
If there we will reach an impasse soon, I will be proud of the case that we fought for anyway.
In addition I would like to thank every player for appreciation and I wish you all the best.
Your absurd wall of text can be summed down to one phrase: get with the times. It's so obvious that you stopped playing at least 4 years ago, so all of what you said is simple nostalgia bait rather than actual criticism of the current state of the game.
1. Raids are still hard. Maybe not YOUR old raids that you remember them, but the current relevant ones still are. Blood Lord and Irukul was 5 years ago. Get with the times.
2. Most of the chars you describe still work the same way. They still require timing and precision or else you'd eat dirt. They are just more streamlined than they are before. Get with the times.
3. FUSION RUNES. This was the most ridculous point. Get with the times
4. Newer players were even more punished back then than they are now. You literally cannot farm some endgame scrolls without a semblance of gear. Even if you are the god of Vindictus, you cannot get past the stat wall of hero Inversed Blade. Remember correctly, then get with the times.
"After the premiere migration..." This is obvious where you stopped playing.
1. NO ONE wants battles where you have to actually lose money on consumables and pushing the 60 minute time limit to finish. Back then in the era that you were playing, it'd take months to progress a pubic hair. Time is money. Understand what time is and then get with the time.
2. The chars are more closely balanced than they were ever before. The chars didn't lose their uniqueness with any revamps. Learning a character didn't get any easier, only more streamlined. Get with the times.
3. 1 set of endgame armor is an easier goal to strive towards than the maze of cloth, light, heavy plate. Getting a +15 is hard in every era of Vindictus. There are legitimate points regarding this topic that I want to give more details about, but you are not informed enough to bother. Get with the times.
4. Gear intricacies? In an MMO? God forbid. Even so, it was more convoluted back then on what to do and get than it is now.
You worked more as a slave in the era that you were playing than now. There are ways now where anyone of any gear level can farm for money.
Speaking of money, do you know how currency work? YES, you DO use your hard earned money to exchange for items you need. Why do you care what the seller has as long as you got what you want with the gold you earned? Do you know how the world works?
Get with the times.
5 "Youtube pros"
You're clearly only looking at videos of people who stim to make this argument. I can go back 6 years to the introduction of stims and you can see them use it. There are still insane solos now. Search for any Neamhain or Balor solo. Get with the times.
Conclusion: This thread has become nostalgia bait to steer the bias a certain way. Even OP supports these out of date points. If you wanna stay away from Vindictus, do so. Don't just randomly come back and make out of date "criticism" that shows you just reading patch notes, if at all, rather than playing the game over the years.
I'm mad at you but even more mad at myself for reading your stupid essay thinking there'd be any good points in here. Get with the times.
Pretty much my thoughts. All the bolding and underlining in the world can't hide the dripping melodrama which mostly overshadows any valid points which may have been made - of which there were few.
I think that you misunderstood couple of things.
This thread is the same, main topic about changes that should improve the game as well.
Other players comments is just free discussion about various couple of things.
Otherwise some of those comments can be threat like bait, nostalgia memories or even good ideas that can be add into the general list in Main Thread (for example: Marketplace in Berbe that I added 2 day ago).
I can agree with most of your shouts as I can agree with other players because you are talking about different part of the game.
However list of changes is the same, you can agree or not, we will respect that.
You can comment whatever you want and talk about your vision of the whole matter.
Nobody will judge you, even trolls like Jinxi who said that we need 5-10 channels… well ok; we can say, not 10 but 50 it should be better.
You can treat comments here serious and is obvious, we need to respect all of them, but matter of the Main Thread not changing so try to focus on your opinion in the aspect of the whole case.
For now we are between “Interest other players with matter of game” > “Find a way to get into custodial people and try to change things that pisses us of in Vindictus as well”
*4. Newer players were even more punished back then than they are now.*
The Game punished they or the Players punished they? like now hoster want 28k-31k in berbhe or kick for fast end and yes is the same think from older malina 18k-20k well hoster decide party but..... O_o who punish who?
We have different visions but it is something I do not understand since I started with evie (yes my main was evie) many years ago I never felt bad if I died alone or if I kept trying things on my own since the game had its grace in difficulty to any raid and the truth if they take me out of a party because they miss it because the practice you get to have when you try a bit is overwhelming. That's why I need to know your point about who *punish*.
I see rather that you progress and then you show that you are there with a little or a lot of gear but they know you and they know that you will do everything possible from your practices to try not to fail.
I think my text has been shorter take your time for read has i also read others pls ;P
I believe I know what you just did. From the start you created a specific image of me, as a player who has already quitted for 4 years. Based on this, you took most of MY “stupid” (as you said) arguments out of context and distorted them in order for them to suit your own “pure” beliefs. Even your initial base is faulty. First, you said it’s been 4 years since I quitted, then you said I stopped when the migration happened. From what I experienced, EU’s migration, fortunately after many delays, has been completed 1 year ago during February-March 2017 (after Neam, the only real challenge, has been released for a while) and USA’s merge happened this year. Apparently, all of them happened recently. Please make up your mind, tell me exactly how much retarded I’m.
I’ll only agree with the fact that I’m indeed nostalgic. But why is this being portrayed as sth bad? If sth worked fine in the past, at least from my point of view, why should we degrade it so much? I’m sorry If I burst your bubble, but I think many would argue that sth has gone wrong with Vindictus. I may as well follow your example and claim that you are a new “pure” player who hasn’t experienced much, so you can’t tell the difference and everything seems perfect, like a dream world.
@Jinyie
Thank you for your constructive criticism. You are entitled to your own opinion and I really appreciate you took the time to read my “book” full of misery (hopefully with some helpful facts) and comment. In the first half of my arguments, which is a little bit irrelevant to the thread, I wanted to remind people how the game was and in the second, make a comparison to how it is right now. I even agree with some of your points but, unfortunately, you also misinterpreted some of my arguments. I don’t want to go into further detail, but this is logical for 2 reasons:
a. My arguments were massive, as a result of extreme grief due the game’s current state.
b. We have different perspectives, due to experiencing the game differently. I’m an XE player, you are, probably, from Premiere and you don’t know about the combo system, for instance. I’m not trying to say that the combo system was impeccable, but for me it felt better. Maybe OrtRisa’s suggestion for debuffs could be better. Please take my arguments with a grain of salt.
@OrtRisa
It’s obvious I’m extremely disappointed and pessimistic, to the point where I may over exaggerate. I may even call myself a hypocrite, because I still look at the forums and the news about Vindictus from time to time. But the reason is…, I still hope a miracle might happen. I like your attitude of not giving up and I wish you could make that miracle a reality. Hopefully, this thread will reach DOL’s ears… and it won’t be another generic thread full of “empty” words. Otherwise, moving on is the only solution.
Thank you all, I won’t comment anymore (because I’m both boring and bored… xD ). Feel free to hate me or ignore me, but I wish you all find true happiness.
Yeah f this. Anyone with a slightly less than high end comp unless running a f@!#ing pentium will have a stupid amount of lag just trying to move through out town.
2.) The Guild stats I can see where you are coming from for sure. I think the guild stat thing can honestly be managed by the region that works on the game imo. So with the lack of players on NA/EU you guys could very well use that. KR doesn't have it because our population is still REALLY huge compared to NA/EU. I AM looking forward to the new Guild update so I can explore those changes so I'll post more on that when the time comes.
3.) Expiring Consumable items imo isn't needed. Especially the ones that are for joking around. Those should stay permanent lol. The ones that barely heal for anything I just delete cause they take up too much space xD (personal preference speaking on that part so disregard that).
4.) This is basically the biggest topic as a whole across all regions I think. Ever since this change the core concept of Vindictus is gone. The game used to be all about control (KR's way of saying skill) with practically every dungeon you ran. Now it's all about stats and merc pots. Granted they are keeping story content at a reasonable stat range but we just got Hell Mode (too early imo considering we don't have the necessary means to even get Neamhain to 9 bars in a matter of 10 minutes alone lol) and you basically need near a +20 right now to even do decent.
ADDITIONALLY: I did get a message on how KR deals with Performance issues with each update so I will answer this with more details on how our client works. So basically since DevCAT ARE the developers of the game they optimize the updates alone I'm sure. Because one single update alone doesn't impact the performance of our client 90% of the time. But as they DO add up we do feel the unoptimization. Though since i have a pretty powerful rig I can handle the game perfectly fine (so long as I don't stream which is....what I do....so I have to provide a crappy quality stream or remove my HUD for good frames). If you guys are getting super bad performance drops that are noticeable with each update then NA isn't bothering to optimize your updates. They are simply changing code to make it work and that's it. If I had to take a guess on how they receive the updates I would bet before Test Server even gets them in KR so they would get Dev Builds essentially. Meaning they have to work out the bugs on their own (I think most companies do this anyway due to locale differences on MMO development for each region but I could be wrong here entirely).
AS A FINAL SUGGESTION: It's gonna be hard since you are a smaller playerbase (or this can be easier for you compared to us.....depends....the size will play it's role) but if everyone in NA/EU actually bands together and tells NA the things that NEED to be fixed. I don't mean the things that involve gameplay mechanics but I mean for example the things that actually hinder the gameplays performance, and tbh you can even throw events in there as well as the outfits you guys STILL haven't receive (this entire suggestion is wishful thinking I know but I'm pretty sure if Nexon NA actually CARES for this game then they will do something if 90% of the playerbase voices their concerns and well....if 90% of the playerbase needs to stop logging in until they actually do something to get them to realize they need to take better care of this game then.....that's what it will take.....again though this is wishful thinking xD)
Final one I promise....lol: I'm a lot more reachable at my Twitch page since i stream basically everyday. Twitch page is on my profile.
However about your “final suggestion”... to encourage around 90% playerbase to carry out (something like a loggin strike) -
it's almost impossible even from an optimistic point of view.
Can’t say how many players from game my megaphones (lots of megaphones) just hook to looked up for support whole thread.
I'm not even saying about gather all of them to make a strike.
Too high level of cooperation skills in whole community, tough nut to crack i might say.
Anyway I will try to publish the whole matter even more, because why not?
In this case I already asked few redactors to public a news/post on forum and one is already viewed over 3.5k times.
Sadly I have no fb page, twitter, friends, slaves or anything similar
The worst is that from whole community there is just handful of players that actually interest and engage of whole case.
And even if I believe that more will come we are still unable to solidarize that much as we need to make it work proper.
Time will tell...
Yeah good point. Considering the cycle that's been going on for years and years it's hard to get the playerbase together for a cause like this because of the idea of that it will all be in vain.