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Rise update lies about damage contribution system

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  • ArishanteArishante
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    edited January 26, 2018
    If there is lag in royal raids, everybody should suffer from it and deal less damage altogether. Not just your poor <1% leecher. Personally i shut down my brain in RAR, lag or not, i know they are no fun so why make a big deal about it.


    You assume the people you disagree with are less intelligent than you, naive or trolls. Pretty much exhibiting narcissistic disorder , you overreact at different opinions, can dish but not take it. Explains your ID, initially thought it's a giveaway for a troll. I know NPD when i see it, patronizing, know-it-all, narcissistic rage that's aimed at invalidating first the character then his argument. There, if we assume stuff, here's my piece, let's make asses of ourselves.
  • BlatantBlatant
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    Below 1% is leeching.

    Isn't this what the votekick system is for? Shouldn't leechers be judged by other players rather than forcing the d-peen fight even more? Because this is the direction the game is going as long as people are rewarded/punished for their damage.

    This is just too ridiculous compared to the situation where people are rewarded/punished for their actual teamwork because the boss's mechanics require the participation of all party members without exception.

    So you think doing less than 1%, an insignificant amount, is not leeching? Even if they're "trying", doing that much is obvious that their gear/skills are no where near where they need to be to complete the run. The only real argument op has is that there won't be as many of these "noobs" who can't do 1% joining but if you look at the screenshot they got 10th. That's 9 other people who were able to do 1%. I don't think its that hard to replace one person to start the RaR.
  • PuppymanPuppyman
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    low key no need to run RaR with +10 free gear, you get more bang for your buck running s3 raids, where you can feel you're contributing more/get carried with not much complaint, more reliably.

    I mean you can't complain much for getting hardly anything for contributing hardly anything despite trying.

    But that's just my opinion and you can live while ignoring it

    HQW4dxG.png
  • DeprivedDeprived
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    edited January 27, 2018
    Below 1% is leeching.

    Isn't this what the votekick system is for? Shouldn't leechers be judged by other players rather than forcing the d-peen fight even more? Because this is the direction the game is going as long as people are rewarded/punished for their damage.

    This is just too ridiculous compared to the situation where people are rewarded/punished for their actual teamwork because the boss's mechanics require the participation of all party members without exception.

    Very well said Rhapsody.

    Sad what the game has become, what's left of it at least.

    A lot of what's left of the community is elitists like those in this thread claiming "below 1% is leeching" and they don't give a rat's ass about what's going on with the newbies that are actually trying their best to help the team but sometimes just don't manage that 1%.

    They don't understand or care about the fact that total damage percentage does not determine who is helping in the team and who isn't. In their minds DPS is everything, it's the be all end all, nothing else matters in the game. These newer players all fighting over DPS have no idea what true teamwork is, when we had to all work together to break laghodessa's thorns for that valuable drop, when that DPS percentage at the end of raids that you see now didn't even exist.

    That DPS counter wasn't always there, it was a business move by Nexon to get weak minded idiots like this, the elitists we see today, to obsess over how much damage they're doing and feel the need to spend more money on the game to increase that damage percentage at the end of raids so they can feel superior to other players.

    So now you have these players all fighting with each other over their "deeps", "DPS", that damage percentage and they now use that damage percentage to measure your value as a player and even as a human being in many cases - those who do less or not much are treated worse and these elitists choose to insult them, like you see happening in this thread, choosing to insult me just because I didn't do enough damage to meet their elite standards.

    And Nexon is sitting back laughing at these weakminded idiots all fighting each other over their damage percentage lol And raking in the dough in the process, filling up Nexon's wallets. It was an excellent move by Nexon to milk these newer players who need to feel some sort of power or superiority over others of all their cash, props to Nexon for that.

    Better gear = better DPS = "I'm better than you, you're not as valuable as I am, I am superior"

    Whether other players are much more skilled or not, whether other players are actually helping the most to keep the rest of the team alive and doing other very helpful things like helping with catapults in Siglint or shooting Elchulus down from the sky, you're still worthless if you don't do enough damage.

    And this is why they say the game has become fully pay2win now. It's why you have these elitists trying to convince me that I'm a "leecher" because I didn't do enough DPS.

    It was truly an ingenious plan and it's worked out perfectly, for Nexon's wallets at least.

    But sadly it's destroyed the quality of players in the community, we see so many in this thread just throwing insults at me all over my DPS. I don't pay any mind to that as I know if you need to insult someone over a number you're weakminded but it's sad to see that this is what the game has become.

    It's truly despicable when you see people who base the value of another human being or player in this case on their possessions, the amount of money they have, what they can spend on the game, their gear and how much damage they deal, what that damage percentage is at the end of a raid.

    This game has been reduced to nothing but DPS and weak minded elitists throwing insults and stepping on those who don't do as much damage as they do.

    Keep making money off of the weakminded elitists thirsting for those "deeps" Nexon, you're doing a great job lol
  • BlatantBlatant
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    Deprived wrote: »
    Below 1% is leeching.

    Isn't this what the votekick system is for? Shouldn't leechers be judged by other players rather than forcing the d-peen fight even more? Because this is the direction the game is going as long as people are rewarded/punished for their damage.

    This is just too ridiculous compared to the situation where people are rewarded/punished for their actual teamwork because the boss's mechanics require the participation of all party members without exception.

    Very well said Rhapsody.

    Sad what the game has become, what's left of it at least.

    A lot of what's left of the community is elitists like those in this thread claiming "below 1% is leeching" and they don't give a rat's ass about what's going on with the newbies that are actually trying their best to help the team but sometimes just don't manage that 1%.

    They don't understand or care about the fact that total damage percentage does not determine who is helping in the team and who isn't. In their minds DPS is everything, it's the be all end all, nothing else matters in the game. These newer players all fighting over DPS have no idea what true teamwork is, when we had to all work together to break laghodessa's thorns for that valuable drop, when that DPS percentage at the end of raids that you see now didn't even exist.

    That DPS counter wasn't always there, it was a business move by Nexon to get weak minded idiots like this, the elitists we see today, to obsess over how much damage they're doing and feel the need to spend more money on the game to increase that damage percentage at the end of raids so they can feel superior to other players.

    So now you have these players all fighting with each other over their "deeps", "DPS", that damage percentage and they now use that damage percentage to measure your value as a player and even as a human being in many cases - those who do less or not much are treated worse and these elitists choose to insult them, like you see happening in this thread, choosing to insult me just because I didn't do enough damage to meet their elite standards.

    And Nexon is sitting back laughing at these weakminded idiots all fighting each other over their damage percentage lol And raking in the dough in the process, filling up Nexon's wallets. It was an excellent move by Nexon to milk these newer players who need to feel some sort of power or superiority over others of all their cash, props to Nexon for that.

    Better gear = better DPS = "I'm better than you, you're not as valuable as I am, I am superior"

    Whether other players are much more skilled or not, whether other players are actually helping the most to keep the rest of the team alive and doing other very helpful things like helping with catapults in Siglint or shooting Elchulus down from the sky, you're still worthless if you don't do enough damage.

    And this is why they say the game has become fully pay2win now. It's why you have these elitists trying to convince me that I'm a "leecher" because I didn't do enough DPS.

    It was truly an ingenious plan and it's worked out perfectly, for Nexon's wallets at least.

    But sadly it's destroyed the quality of players in the community, we see so many in this thread just throwing insults at me all over my DPS. I don't pay any mind to that as I know if you need to insult someone over a number you're weakminded but it's sad to see that this is what the game has become.

    It's truly despicable when you see people who base the value of another human being or player in this case on their possessions, the amount of money they have, what they can spend on the game, their gear and how much damage they deal, what that damage percentage is at the end of a raid.

    This game has been reduced to nothing but DPS and weak minded elitists throwing insults and stepping on those who don't do as much damage as they do.

    Keep making money off of the weakminded elitists thirsting for those "deeps" Nexon, you're doing a great job lol

    I don't mind being called elitist if thinking people who do less than 1% is considered leeching. You'd rather complain on forums and get **** handed to you rather than realizing maybe you played poorly or just need to upgrade your gear a little. That's ok though, no getting through to people like you.
  • DeprivedDeprived
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    edited January 27, 2018
    Really don't care about the opinions of an elitist.

    If you're such a s hitty human being that you think less of others based only on their money, their items in a game and them not doing enough damage for your liking then your opinion is meaningless and I don't care for it.

    I'd rather hear what good, actually decent human beings have to say thanks.

    You spew nothing but hatred all over this number that is so precious and means everything in the world to you, DPS. Who cares what you have to say. You aren't very intelligent anyway if you really think DPS is the only thing that matters and that determines whether a player is a "leecher" or not.

    You're just another weakminded idiot that has already fallen prey to Nexon's psychological tactics causing everyone to fight each other over DPS so they can make more money off of you. That goes for any and everyone throwing insults based off of DPS, if your insults are based off of DPS you're weakminded, plain and simple.

    You may feel good doing it, stepping on others who deal low damage, feel special and feel like you're better than others but you're really nothing but another cash cow for Nexon so the joke's on you.

    And you're exactly right, the opinions of an elitist will never get through to me. You're trash human beings picking on the weak, no one cares what you have to say.
  • ArishanteArishante
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    edited January 27, 2018
    The person with NPD usually displays the behaviors of arrogance, a sense of superiority, and actively seeks to establish abusive power and control over other people. Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition different from self-confidence (a strong sense of self); people with NPD typically value themselves over other persons to the extent that they openly disregard the feelings and wishes of others, and expect to be treated as superior, regardless of their actual status or achievements. Moreover, the person with narcissistic personality disorder usually exhibits a fragile ego (Self-concept), an inability to tolerate criticism, and a tendency to belittle others in order to validate their own superiority. Wikipedia

    Projecting yourself over others and building a martyr complex facade is strongly correlated.

    Stop it. Get some help



    MisterWhiskers
  • MisterWhiskersMisterWhiskers
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    edited January 27, 2018
    I forfeit the troll contest.This guy took #1 place. (#2 and #3 as well)
  • DeprivedDeprived
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    edited January 27, 2018
    Arishante wrote: »
    The person with NPD usually displays the behaviors of arrogance, a sense of superiority, and actively seeks to establish abusive power and control over other people. Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition different from self-confidence (a strong sense of self); people with NPD typically value themselves over other persons to the extent that they openly disregard the feelings and wishes of others, and expect to be treated as superior, regardless of their actual status or achievements. Moreover, the person with narcissistic personality disorder usually exhibits a fragile ego (Self-concept), an inability to tolerate criticism, and a tendency to belittle others in order to validate their own superiority. Wikipedia

    Projecting yourself over others and building a martyr complex facade is strongly correlated.

    Stop it. Get some help



    Usually those telling others "get help" are the ones that need help themselves.

    You just contributed nothing of importance or relating to the thread topic whatsoever.

    Reported for spam.

    Anyone with something actually useful to share relating to the thread topic please do share though.
    MisterWhiskers
  • ArcticAzrealArcticAzreal
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    There is so much back and forth im NOT going to continue reading to find out if this was said. Basically RAR opens at lvl30 its open to everyone to try but it is smart to be buffed or your reward will be completeing the story / getting started on a title. A lot of people that go only go for the shards or to see if theyve improved any in attack. At this point players with high power and tech are the ones you'll find there. So your power may indeed not be enough. Save up and get some good gear and a plus 13 weapon this might really be what your missing. However even with free gear and buff if you know how to work your char you should at least make over 1% unless you get super unlucky to end up with a crap ton of high geared player. Best i can suggest honestly. Good luck.
    Deprived
  • DeprivedDeprived
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    There is so much back and forth im NOT going to continue reading to find out if this was said. Basically RAR opens at lvl30 its open to everyone to try but it is smart to be buffed or your reward will be completeing the story / getting started on a title. A lot of people that go only go for the shards or to see if theyve improved any in attack. At this point players with high power and tech are the ones you'll find there. So your power may indeed not be enough. Save up and get some good gear and a plus 13 weapon this might really be what your missing. However even with free gear and buff if you know how to work your char you should at least make over 1% unless you get super unlucky to end up with a crap ton of high geared player. Best i can suggest honestly. Good luck.

    Thanks, some very useful information there.

    And yes, this is exactly another one of the scenarios where damage may fall short of 1%, when there's already a bunch of other very strong players and the boss is dying so fast you don't have enough time to get that 1% damage all the while having to deal with deaths, waiting to be revived which can take longer sometimes than other times, server lag might strike again and more.

    In normal 4 man or 8 man raids there's no excuse for getting less than 1% damage but Royal Army Raids is a different story and 1.xx% and 2% damage from players is very common there and sometimes that damage happens to fall a little short of 1%.

    So when things like this happens it isn't fair to just go and penalize the weaker players and only give them one drop.
  • ArcticAzrealArcticAzreal
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    When it comes to a new player at a low lvl the biggest issue they have to fight with is experience were a number of already settled players know the raid like the back of there hand a new player doesnt know how to hsndle lets say lako for example also because of how simple he is as a ex raid you dont get yhe full experience of him till 90 and up when you can tsckle him as he used to be. I personally have stopped reviving because i tend to glitch and have to rerevive a player which lraves me open to an attsck. Not sure if im alone there but it happens to me a lot. But at least even if you get one drop you get experience and a seal which is helpful toward a better wrapon. Therr is slways two sides to looking at this. It sucks but given time a play inexperienced player will improve ad will your drop pieces. Sadly this is vindi in a nut shell honrstly i dont even take my del in anymore and my miri goes in if i feel like dealing with players or lag for a seal. Otherwise i get titles and disappear. Doing this on a phone sorry for mistakes in post lol
  • ArishanteArishante
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    Spam spam spam spaaam spaaamity spam! Wonderful spam!

    You started psychoanalyzing people, why can't you give and take at the same time? Look at how many times you insulted people and made assumptions out of thin air, your own thread is littered with them.

    I recognize you in someone with NPD, does it matter that it could be somebody intimate or even myself? don't question your attitude, instead threaten and try to shut people up with reports. That's another narcissistic characteristic, when confronted and their deceit is out in the open, they throw childish tantrums.
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    edited January 27, 2018
    Blatant wrote: »
    So you think doing less than 1%, an insignificant amount, is not leeching? Even if they're "trying", doing that much is obvious that their gear/skills are no where near where they need to be to complete the run. The only real argument op has is that there won't be as many of these "noobs" who can't do 1% joining but if you look at the screenshot they got 10th. That's 9 other people who were able to do 1%. I don't think its that hard to replace one person to start the RaR.

    You can call it leeching if you consider it as a dps competition. But it shouldn't be considered as leeching otherwise. That was my point.

    Back then when S2 raids were alive and people went in with lv 70 and lv 80 chars and lv 90's joined it was very easy to produce damage below 1%. And you know it's not your fault when you can solo that raid easily even though it takes more than 30 minutes for you because of your gear and then you produce damage below 1% in a higher geared group.

    Not everyone has 16k+ def to facetank them. Also the attack speed changes the gameplay drastically. You can have the skills for a high ats character but try a low ats one. It's a huge difference and much more difficult to play with.

    In my opinion the only reward for higher dps should be the boss dying in shorter time as it was before Rise came in.

    PS.: It's an obvious business strategy to encourage a competition between customers and then sell things which they can use to overcome others especially when it's required. Whoever came up with the idea of this reward system, it was not for eliminating leechers, that's only the side effect of it.
    koscDeprived
  • MisterWhiskersMisterWhiskers
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    edited January 27, 2018
    PS.: It's an obvious business strategy to encourage a competition between customers and then sell things which they can use to overcome others especially when it's required. Whoever came up with the idea of this reward system, it was not for eliminating leechers, that's only the side effect of it.


    but royal raids benefit more from ATK than add dmg

    some guy with 33k attack from dulla weapon will easily beat someone with 28k attack but 1k more AD;and dulla weapons are easily obtained even by f2p players

  • VladinoVladino
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    edited January 27, 2018
    RAR is available from low lvl so it definitely isn't for endgame players only. They have added additional rewards for best dps there so basically you'll get your reward for "carry" but that doesn't mean you can belittle them. Low geared chars are main source of myst. shards on the market so if they weren't joining RAR you would have to farm your attck limit alone (and you certainly don't want that)whether you would gather 10 people to start the raid is another thing.

    If players are active in the raid and still get almost no reward for it then it's bad system and should be changed. There were times when BO gave additional cores but I think it doesn't work anymore in RAR (every1 got +core even low geared and every1 was thankful to those doing BOs).

    Let's say some ridiculous example: You have endgame char and you join RAR with you there also join 11 newbies. But those newbies were lucky and all got +20 weapons. Raid starts but it freezes for about 5 second and when you unfreeze the boss is dead and you get 1 core. Little angry you join another RAR but unfortunately the same newbies join again. You tell them to wait a little with dmg but they only laugh at you and kill the boss even faster than before leaving you with <1% dmg.

    Imo they should increase minimum stats buff 23k vs 30-32k is hell of a difference and there are also other stats so I understand why many newbies struggle getting 1%.
    Deprived
  • BOK_CHOIBOK_CHOI
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    Thanks for the long, entertaining read, guys. :D
    So how many people got reported for some dumb reasons so far on this thread? Haha, oh man...

    Anyway isn't it significantly easier now than even few months before to gear up since we have the seal shop stones/runes? It's not like anyone is permanently stuck with the free +10 weapon.
    I don't run RAR much but I'd think that you'd definitely be able to contribute way more than 1% with a +13 lvl 90 weapon (which is basically free, you just need some time) while still retaining the free armor.

    While I'm not the fan of getting additional cores for 40%+ & 80%+ damage (which is, from what I've read, not applied in RAR anyway), I am definitely not against the limited rewards for less than 1% damage. I just don't like the idea of someone being completely AFK the entire raid and still getting the same rewards as everyone else.
  • osaposap
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    Much respect for @ISnatchMoney.. thank you for your explanations.!
  • PuppymanPuppyman
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    edited January 27, 2018
    Bad analogy is bad but I want to make it cause I thought of it and it won't leave my head

    Devon gets 3 friends: Michael, Tom, and Jane, to help stack some boxes of dog food from the storage, and offers to pay them for their efforts.

    Tom and Jane stack the boxes fairly well. Michael on the other hand is a box stacking god.
    Once all boxes in the storage have been stacked it becomes apparent that Michael stacked far more boxes on his own.
    However, almost all of the boxes Michael stacked where empty, and therefore of no use to Devon.
    While all the boxes Tom and Jane stacked, where filled with dog food and the ones Devon needed to be stacked.

    Should they all three be payed the same amount?

    Consider this:
    - Michael stacked far more boxes that Tom and Jane probably ever could
    - Tom and Jane are good at stacking boxes, by no means bad
    - Only a tiny few of Michael's stacked boxes actually helped Devon
    - They all participated and gave effort at helping Devon
    -This is not a job, Devon asked for help with payment in return for said help


    I said bad analogy was bad, and it's more aimed at the justification for doing under 1% limiting rewards.
    I get y'all wanna kung-fu foight about whether it's leeching or not, but I'm focusing more on the broad picture of the rewards.

    Also don't consider people more geared than you an unskilled whale, people can be geared and skilled, Neamhain proved this, just as much as people can be under geared and skilled, though strangely enough there's a weird correlation between having skill and making an exceeding effort to at least reach reasonable gearing as opposed to bear minimum and complaining
    Tariro
  • kosckosc
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    Reading @RhapsodyOfFire comment, it brings back old memories.
    Back when glas ghaibhleann was the end game raid, there was 1 person who always did less than 1% dmg and they were still considered to be the mvp.
    They were in charge of reloading and stun locking the boss so that 7 other people can sandbag attack the boss for fast kill. It was important how much they can keep the boss down without breaking the combo. Normally 2 shots are required to stun the boss but experienced people only used 1 shot to stun the boss. When the boss was near the wall and you shoot its calf against the wall, it was pinned on the wall. If 2 ballista ammo was used for 1 stun, you ran out of ammo and the person on the ballista had to come join to finish the boss; resulting no one getting less than 1% dmg. But when 1 ammo was used for each stun, the person on the ballista never had to leave their spot until the boss died and received less than 1% dmg - proof that they were excellent on the ballista.

    Also for titan there were 2 people on opposite sides for the ballistae to stun lock the boss. Then later people got skilled at it and discovered 1 person can reload and stun lock the boss if one ballista was fired in quick succession and both hit the boss. It was valuable to have such player as this meant 7 people can be attacking the boss as opposed to 6. Also, due to the limited number of ballistae ammo these people had to have very high accuracy at hitting the boss.

    These people doing less than 1% damage were not considered leeches- they were mvps. Back then there weren't that many players that can man the ballista with high accuracy so good shooters were always welcomed.

    I agree with RhapsodyOfFire that the 1% dmg system is not very good at distinguishing leechers.
    Leechers will still always leech their runs. That is their nature. Now with easier to gear up characters, I start to notice very well geared leechers.
    They afk for the entire run and when the boss is about to die, they use all of their high damage skills + transformation just to get slightly over 1% for full drops.
    I consider these type of people to be more toxic leeches than a poorly geared newbie trying their best at fighting the boss.

    Another 'recently popular' type of leeches seem to be in niflheim. They don't bring potions and attack the boss with everything they have to reach 1% dmg. Then they start dying intentionally 3 times so they reach perma-death. Now they have a perfectly 'valid' reason to afk the entire run. I keep note of the names and guild names of such players but there seem to be too many nowadays that I don't bother doing niflheim in public parties anymore.

    Even for neamhain, person/people have been caught dying on purpose for the 8 minute timer because they are using dual computers to play in 2 different nemhain parties at the same time. (Neamhain is a special case since sometimes it's hard to fill the party and I occasionally allow afk leech alt if the spot is going to be empty anyway because I'll be carrying the party anyways. But deceiving the party by putting another alt in another neamhain party is just crossing the line.)

    The real leechers are probably well aware of the 1% penalty and will abuse the system like above. The only way to get rid of them is remembering their ign and using the vote-kick system.
    VladinoDeprived