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Lann change in KR server, after the 26th Oct patch

Vindictus Rep: 905
Posts: 32
edited November 8, 2017 in Lann
I am currently doing follow up research on the aftermath of Oct 26 patch of KR server.
from what I saw, the situation gotten worse than 19th Oct. To be honest, I think the KR server balance
patches on 19th and 26th October may cause another major loss of players after the RISE patch.

안녕하세요. GM포비슈입니다.
Hello, this is GM Fovish
2017년 10월 26일 목요일
정식 서버 업데이트 후 적용되는 변경 점은 다음과 같습니다.
The following changes will be implemented after the updates on Oct 26th, 2017.
■ 할로윈의 악몽 이벤트 Nightmare of Halloween Event
- 사전 공지 드렸던 내용 중 '조마조마한 할로윈 트릭'의 랜덤 상태효과를 아래와 같이 변경합니다. Thrilling Halloween Trick's random effect will be changed as below
: 20초 동안 크리티컬이 발동되지 않음 → 20초 동안 밸런스 3만큼 감소
: No critical for 20 seconds -> balance will be reduced by 3 points for 20 seconds.
: 즐거움을 드리고자 준비한 이벤트로 불편을 드려 대단히 죄송합니다.
: We sincerely appologize for an unintended inconvenience.
-- pretty much imitated NA's halloween event for year 2017-- 

■ 캐릭터 조정 Character Balancing.
[리시타] Lann
- '앱솔루트 퓨리' 스킬의 일부 기능을 변경합니다.
- The attributes of 'Absolute Fury' will be changed.
: 발동 조작 키를 일반공격 키로 변경합니다.
: Command input will be now => While sprinting - smash - normal attack
: SP소모량을 50으로 변경합니다.
: SP consumption will be changed to 50.
: 재사용시간을 20초로 적용합니다.
: it gets 20 seconds cooldown.
- '스피어대시' 이후 '대시 스매시'로 연결되지 않도록 수정합니다.
- 'sprint smash' will not be activated after the Spear Dash.
The 26th October patch, KR server Lann players expected the current director considered their opinions. Mostly, the players wanted to roll back the 'Absoulte Fury' however, the director changed the input commands as he posted in the patch note.
Image 1


On the 1st image, the lann players are expressing disappointments & frustrations to the update, also to the current director as well. Majority of the comments are about their distrusts & disappointments to the developers & the current director, problems caused by the new 'Absolute Fury,' or simply giving up their Lanns and quitting the game entirely.

The reasons behind such responses as follows.
--Sprint Smash Bug--
Sample video from Junyoop.

starting from 33:20 of the clip, you see that "Gliding Fury" gets counted as a critical hit, but sprint smash takes the place instead of "Lightning Fury," which seemed to be a bug. The KR players found out that this bug occurs if they were holding the sprint button, which makes a player to constantly release the button every moment.

1. Lann tries a smash attack (including a sprint smash)
2. the smash did not become a critical hit, so Lann presses a normal attack button.
- There, you have your risk that lightning fury will go off, intead of the normal attack that you intended.

Gliding Fury bug.
1. Lann's Sprint smash became critical hit, so he glides.
2. gliding fury becomes critical hit, so Lann presses smash again to use Lightning Fury.
3. due to glitch, if you were holding the sprint button at that time, sprint smash will go off, not the lightning fury.

Since a lanns often use sprint smash to use GF->LF combo much as they can in short amount of time (GF->LF is the main damage & SP source for sword lanns), this bug does interfere the Lann's DPS cycle severely (according to my investigations, this issue happens to spears as well). it has been at least 10 days after the patch, however this bug has not been fixed yet.

--Inefficiency of Absolute Fury--

The new input of Absolute Fury is now 'While sprinting, Smash button - normal attack.'
Though SP consumption has been reduced to 50, a lot of experiments from KR players point out that 'the new input still intereferes the DPS flow much as the old command.'

Image 2


Comment 1: the core issue was that Absolute Fury was interfering the current DPS cycle. Yet, the new director still left the Absolute Fury, while the sprint issue that cancels necessary recoil delay for gliding fury still exists. Seriously.. this director is competely a stubborn while he is ****.
Comment 2: After sprint smash and if it doesn't crit, so people pressed left mouse button. Would they do that to use Absolute Fury, or more people trying to cancel into a normal attack?
Comment 3: Ofcourse they are trying to cancel into a normal attack~

Based on the fact that Absolute Fury was inefficient, and even the new input command is still interfering severly for Lann's dps flow, a lot of KR server lanns suggested it would have been better if it was changed to a grab or kick button, just like the change occurred to Fiona's Shield charge.

Image 4.

Summary: the author in the image actually suggested about the new input command for the Absolute Fury. However, after having discussions, the author and KR lann community verified the issues that will be caused by the new input command of Absolute Fury (while sprint, Smash - normal attack), which will interfering the flow into other smashes, such as Rising Crescent or Pummel storm, in case a sprint smash does not become a critical.

Ex. 1. sprint smash does not become a critical hit,
2. so a lann tries to use normal hit - smash to get a critical chance for GF
3. due to new input command, you still have a risk that will trigger Absolute Fury instead.

Thus, the KR Lann community asked to change the input command of Absolute Fury to 'While sprint, Smash button - Grab or kick,' since setting it into a grab key would interfere much less compared to both old and new input command. This suggestion was posted 3 days before the patch on 26th, Oct 2017, however was never taken into consideration by the developers according to the responses.

Another post from Binsam, one of the Top Lann players in KR, showing a ticket submitted to KR developers. Binsam allowed me to add his posts so NA can be well informed about the damage from the patches.


Translation: We asked to roll back the thing you made, because it was so futile.. Yet, you let it through, only because of it's your idea?
Would it kill you to take a look at the ideas from the players once a while to change Lann and stop yourselves from being trapped in your small world?

- You can use ‘Absolute Fury’ if you trained ‘Gliding Fury’ to rank 9 or higher.
: the input command is 2 x Smash Button while you sprint.
: It costs 250 SP, basically same as ‘Gliding Fury’ but it is faster, will be activated regardless of your critical rate.
: if it becomes critical, you can link it to ‘Lightning Fury.’
- A change will be applied so that you can either sprint or use ‘Slip Dash’ faster than current.
- A change will be applied so that you can use ‘Spear Dash’ immediately after ‘Fury’ Skills.

Look, this is your 19th Oct Patch note, right? Want me to inform you how it should have been worded?
- A change will be applied so that you can use ‘Spear Dash’ immediately after ‘Fury’ Skills.
This sentence, would have been enough for us.
Everything else? You should take them out, since they're nothing but complete wastages.
Seriously, you guys are clearly telling us that you don't know this character since Lann is an old character, then why you guys keep massing up the character for?
Since you're just massing up the character because of your lack of understanding, why don't you just *** leave him alone?
Or at least take the opinions from the several players who fully understand Lann?
A lot of lann players waited this week that at least rolling back Lann would be better, but the result is just no different. We're completely dissapointed with what you've done.
Next week, we seriously tell you to re-do Lann.
IF you really don't want to delete your 'Absolute Garbage,' just make it an active skill, got it?

***Binsam's comment to KR forum***
They are trying go away with this, we should not tolerate them at all.
I'm sure these guys are not going to roll back, so that was the reason why I added the last part.

So longstory short on how 26th Oct Patch in KR server harmed the Lann population.
- Absolute Fury has been changed
- New input = While Sprinting, smash button - normal attack
- SP consumption 50
- 20 seconds cooldown.
- however the changes are still interfering
- due to new input command, after any smash attack, if you try to use other skills such as Rising Crescent, or Pummel storm and so on, you still have a risk that Absolute fury will go off.
- KR Lanns suggested other input methods due to the reason above 3 days prior to the patch, however was never taken into a consideration according to the responses from players.
- Bug issues still remain.
- When Gliding Fury becomes critical, if you were holding sprint button, then sprint smash will go off instead of Lightning Fury. This bug was found on the day of the patch and reported, however not fixed at all.
- Spear Lann's bug issue that not allowing to Spear dash while Fury Infusion or the vice versa, has not fixed yet still. you still have to force cut off the DPS flow for either methods.
- as the result, Lanns in KR are either giving up or quitting the game much as Karoks do.

****What is going on with Karoks? Was it really a fair nerf, or a annihilation of the Karok population?****
on the 19th Oct patch, Karoks had a huge nerf in KR, which is being criticized that the KR server Developers have annihilated Karok Populations, which were generally 3% of overall players. What really happened here?

19th Oct patch note for Karok:

[카록] Karok
1. 공통 Common
- 힘겨루기 사용 후 적용되는 근육 경련 상태효과의 내용을 수정합니다.
- Cooldown on clash will be adjusted
: 지속시간이 스킬 랭크와 무관하게 20분으로 통일됩니다. (제압 스킬과 동일)
: Cooldown will be fixed to 20minutes regardless of the skill rank.
: 근육 경련 상태에서 추가 공격 속도가 붙게 됩니다.
: you’ll be given attack speed buff while your clash is on cooldown.
: 근육 경련 상태효과가 행동불능이 되어도 남아있게 됩니다.
: the cooldown will remain even if you are incapacitated.
2. 배틀필러 Battle Pillar
- 바이슨 폼으로 획득한 상태효과의 내용을 수정합니다.
- Effect gained from Bison Form will be changed.
: 증가한 공격 속도가 공격 이외에는 적용되지 않도록 변경합니다.
: the attack speed buff will not be applied other than attack, it won’t be applied to movement speed.
: 바이슨 폼으로 증가하는 공격 속도를 10으로 고정합니다.
: attack speed gathered from Bison Form will be fixed to 10.

- 데들리 스톰프 상태효과의 내용을 수정합니다.
- Effect gained from Bison Form will be changed.

: 증가한 공격 속도가 공격 이외에는 적용되지 않도록 변경합니다.
: the attack speed buff will not be applied other than attack, it won’t be applied to movement speed.

: 데들리 스톰프로 증가하는 공격 속도를 40으로 고정합니다. 
 : attack speed gathered from Bison Form will be fixed to 40.

3. 블래스터 Cestus
- ‘버스트: 돌격’의 상태효과 내용을 수정합니다.
- ‘Blast: Terror Rush’s effect will be changed.

: 증가한 공격 속도가 공격 이외에는 적용되지 않도록 변경합니다.
: the attack speed buff will not be applied other than attack, it won’t be applied to movement speed.

: 공격 속도 증가 폭이 기본 공격 속도에 의해 영향 받지 않도록 합니다.
: the attack speed buff will not be affected by the base attack speed.
- 2타 스매시가 PVP에서는 스매시 적용을 받지 않도록 변경합니다.
- ‘Straight Shot’ will be no longer counted as a Smash attack while in PVP.

The main things in here will be the overall speed nerf on Karok, and long cooldown duration applied to clash.

Back to Junyoop's Video on 19th October patch, at 55:00 of the clip, you can see the changes happened to Karok.

First of all, you can see his traveling distance got shorter than before.
For the clash, Karok gained 11 ASPD, but 11 ASPD for 20 minutes...? considering other hold down skills do 1~1.5 bars to Ein Lacher boss,
the clash was also done to an Ein Lacher boss, and did 0.5 of a bar.. which is relatively low from my personal opinion.

In the clip, Joonyup also stated "I'm not sure about other things, but for the Clash however.. I personally thing it requires a buff..
but instead they nerfed it with 20min cooldown.. and only 11 aspd for the return for such long cooldown? I'm not really liking this.'

At 1:03:25 at the clip, you can see the changes that were mentioned for battle pillars, especially the movment speed
got much slower. Also the gained speed buff from bison form is now only affecting the attack speed, not affecting movement speed

With the changes, we can see the Karok is generally now moving slow much as Lann does. Lann and Karok are both old characters.
Considering the newer characters have much superior movement skills and travel much further with a given dodge skill, Karok and Lann
are now considered as the probably the most slowest characters in the game, incapable of competing against newer characters at all.



Thus,, Karoks in KR server did request the roll back after the 19th, OCT patch much as the Lanns did.
However, the opinions from KR Karoks were completely ignored by the current director. On top of that,
the Karok population, which is less than 100 in KR server, is going through harsh discriminations
in the game, after the 19th of Oct patch.

As the result, KR server Karoks are taking one of these choices.
1. completely delete their characters and leave the game completely.
2. sell their gears and accounts through online, then delete the game.
3. try to convince the director again, which is a complete waste.

The KR server Karoks are still quitting as I am addressing this report. Some players in KR server actually
criticizing the current director, since his reckless patch is about to extinct an entire population of a character.

Following image is the letter from Katobless, one of the named Karok Player in KR

"First of all, I don't mind if you reveal my IGN.

well.. the current Karok players are mostly those who been on this game for really long time,
however a lot of them are either quitting or not logging in.

Especially, a large number of Karok players quitted due to 19th Oct patch incident,
including those frequently active in the forum as well.

At least, we had barely a handful of 0~1 tier players, but they're all gone too.

I really wish that the current situation in KR gets delivered to there.. Hope things
don't go bad as here .

I apologize that I could not be more helpful to you."

Summary and personal assessment on Karok
- Karok now moves slow as Lann does.
- it may seem ok for PVP, but for in raids and dungeons, this seems critical,
especially the newer chars have much superior moving skills, or travel much
further with a same dodge skills.
- The 11 ASPD buff, it is fixed value, given for 20min cooldown on Clash probably inappropriate.
- Especially the damage is much lower than other holding skills, both the cooldown and ASPD buff during
cooldown should be reconsidered.
- As a personal assessment, this nerf on Karok, might actually be noxious to NA, since we're trying to merge the servers
due to low number of players.

Overall aftermath of both patches.
Overall, the patch seems like unsuccessful and uproared more than majority of the KR players. Due to harsh critiques, one of the forum conducted a survey to investigate the issues.

The first image shows the general character populations.

1. Delia - 9.3% (441 votes)
2. Miri (new char) - 9.3% (441 votes)
3. Arisha - 8.2% (387 votes)
4. Fiona, Longsword - 6.8% (320 votes)
5. Evie, Staff - 5.8% (273 votes)
6. Vella, Twin Sword - 5.5% (261 votes)
7. Evie, Scythe - 5.4% (257 votes)
8. Lynn, Glaive - 5.2% (247 votes)
9. Lann, Twin Sword 4.6% (219 votes)
10. Lynn, Blute - 4.6% (219 votes)
11. Kai, Crossgun - 4.6% (211 votes)
12. Lann, Twin Spear - 4.3% (203 votes)
13. Karok, Cestus - 4.3% (201 votes)
14. Hurk, Greatsword - 4.1% (195 votes)
15. Vella, Chainblade - 3.3% (157 votes)
16. Karok, Battlepillar - 3.3% (156 votes)
17. Sylas, Phantom Dagger - 3.3% (155 votes)
18. Fiona, Long Hammer - 3% (141 votes)
19. Kai, Bow - 2.9% (139 votes)
20. Hurk, Teide - 2%. (96 votes)
Total participants = 1809 players.

**Bold fonted Characters are the ones affected by Patches, 19th and 26th of Oct, 2017**
So far, KR server has 12 characters, 20 classes since Miri came out (also, Miri was nerfed during patch of 19th, OCT 2017. However, players found out that Miri is a lot easier than old day Omni god Hurk, while she's still a tier 1 DPS'er, majority of the KR players argue that has Miri been truely nerfed or not.) At least 1/3 of the KR server population are focused to Arisha, Delia, Miri and Sword Fiona, indicating the population is more focused to either buffed or top DPSers from the new patch. Also, showing that they're also the characters affected by the patches from 19th and 26th of Oct 2017.

Survey Image 2. Which of the characters does require most urgent modifications?

1. Lann, Twin Sword - 15.3% (748 votes)
2. Delia, Bastard Sword - 11.4% (555 votes)
3. Vella, Twin Sword - 10.1% (494 votes)
4. Fiona, Longsword - 9.1% (442 votes)
5. Lann, Twin spear - 7.1% (347 votes)
6. Kai, Bow - 7.1% (347 votes)
7. Karok, Battlepillar - 5.5% (267 votes)
8. Karok, Cestus - 4.5% (221 votes)
9. Sylas - phantom dagger 3.4% (168 votes)
10. Miri - 3.4% (165 votes)
11. Evie, staff - 3.3% (163 votes)
12. Fiona, Long hammer - 3% (145 votes)
13. Lynn, Glaive - 2.9% (140 votes)
14. Evie, Scythe - 2.8% (135 votes)
15. Arisha, Spellsword - 2.3% (111 votes)
16. Hurk, Teide -2.3% (110 votes)
17. Lynn, Blute - 2% (96 votes)
18. Vella, Chainblade - 1.7% (81 votes)
19. Kai, Crossgun - 1.4% (70 votes)
20. Hurk, Greatsword - 1.4% (68 votes)
Total participants: 1760 players.

Suvery image 3. Overall satisfactory.

1. Dissatisfied - 64.4% 1093 votes
2. Do not feel any big difference - 27.9% 473 votes
3. satisfied - 7.7% 131 votes

Total votes: 1697 participants.


  • hugemelllhugemelll
    Vindictus Rep: 905
    Posts: 32
    and if you wonder, here are the remaining parts of the 26th of October patch in KR server

    - 발차기 버튼으로 발동하는 '액티브: 방패 질주' 스킬의 일부 기능을 변경합니다.
    - Certain attributes of "Active: Shield Charge" will be changed for if it is activated with "kick button"
    : 방향키를 누르고 있어도 적의 방향으로 달려가는 현상을 수정합니다.
    : the issue that charging toward a foe, instead of the directional input, has been fixed.
    : 스태미나 소모량을 7로 변경합니다.
    : Stamina consumption has been changed to 7.
    - '아이비 스위퍼'의 일부 기능을 변경합니다.
    : 마지막 발차기의 스태미나 소모량을 6으로 변경합니다.
    : ‘아마란스 킥’ 이후 연결해서 사용하는 타이밍이 소폭 빨라집니다.
    : 대미지가 증가하였습니다.
    - '액티브: 짓누르기' 스킬의 일부 기능을 변경합니다.
    - certain attributes of 'Active: pounding' will be changed as below.
    : SP소모량을 250으로 변경합니다.
    : SP consumption has been changed to 250.
    : 스매시 공격을 적에게 맞혀야 지속시간이 증가하도록 변경합니다.
    : Now you have to successfully land a smash attack in order to increase its duration.

    [허크] Hurk
    - '테이드'의 '총열 과열' 상태에서 '더블 샷'을 사용할 수 있던 현상을 수정합니다.
    - For Teide, the glitch that allowed a player to use 'Double Shot/Enhanced Barrel during 'Overheat' has been fixed.
    - '한계 초월' 습득 후 '그레이트 소드'를 착용한 상태에서 보조 무기를 들거나 맨 손이 되었을 때 지친 모션이 나오던 현상을 수정합니다.
    - For greatswords, the issue, which caused an exhaustion when you use secondary weapon or become barehand after activating 'Transcend,' has been fixed.
    - '액티브: 광폭화' 스킬의 밸런스를 조정합니다.
    - 'Active: Berserker' has been rebalanced.
    : 스킬의 재사용 대기시간을 1분 30초로 변경합니다.
    : Cooldown has been changed to 1minute 30 seconds.
    : 대미지 증가 수치를 8랭크 기준 '8%'로 소폭 하향합니다.
    : the damage buff has been reduced to 8% at Rank 8.
    - '철벽'의 효과 중 적에게 받는 최대 대미지 수치 50% 감소 효과가 정상적으로 적용되지 않던 현상을 수정합니다.
    - The issue for 'Impenetrable', which 'max damage reduction 50% effect' wasn't applying properly, has been fixed.
    개발자 코멘트: 철벽에서 감소하는 대미지 수치는 실제로 받은 대미지의 50%가 아닌 최대로 받을 수 있는 대미지의 수치를 의미합니다.
    Developer's comment: Impenetrable's effect reduces the 50% of the maximum damage you can receive, not the 50% of the damage you actually received.

  • KelemaKelema
    Vindictus Rep: 510
    Posts: 12
    DOL might as well just delete Lann and Karok after the Oct 19 patch.
  • XieXie
    Vindictus Rep: 2,115
    Posts: 155
    edited November 8, 2017
    When I first heard about the original changes before the patch, my initial thoughts were how it would affect my DPS and playstyle? I felt doubtful and knew that Absolute Fury is not a skill that I will be using often or at all. The SP that I worked for were better spent on other skills that have possibly better rewards (DPS). But what if I was wrong and that the change is more useful than I thought? I can't be completely certain until I experience it myself. But after reading the reactions from KR players, my doubts and reactions were somewhat confirmed. After all the changes up until now that were implemented to fix Absolute Fury, I would rather have Absolute Fury be an Active Skill or else it would interfere with Lann's playstyle, making him annoying to play with.

    But based on his past actions, I have a suspicion that the DOL will be stubborn and will continue to try and integrate Absolute Fury into our playstyle somehow no matter our suggestions.

    Thank you for the investigation and posting though. I was wondering on the current state of Lann in KR and now, it's more clear. Overall, I think the DOL should just focus on creating new content than keep trying to push "balancing" content without trying in the Test Server first or without listening to the feedback of players before releasing.

    ... also, It's probably a silly and random thought but I wouldn't be surprised if he's doing this on purpose to encourage players who main the older character to move and invest into the newer characters. It'll generate more profit right? It might work for some but I think the game will lose more players than it will retain.
  • ThirstThirst
    Vindictus Rep: 300
    Post: 1
  • NevanderNevander
    Vindictus Rep: 400
    Posts: 4
    Oh that's why my lann is good for fk all now cause of there fk lann over patch this is pretty common of Nexon fking lann over and that's why I don't play Vindi anymore RIP
  • BeepBeepImAJeepBeepBeepImAJeep
    Vindictus Rep: 1,150
    Posts: 97
    Don't learn the absolute fury skill in the skill tree, that way you should be safe.
    ...How come that director hasn't been fired yet?
  • The_VillainThe_Villain
    Vindictus Rep: 1,550
    Posts: 103
    You know.. A better way to implement the Absolute Fury skill would've been to given it an additional skill to combo into, a "rushing/rundown" skill like Delia's/Miri's. It would've definitely helped with his mobility a lot as well as making it less wonky for it to be used after running smash. Could've been cool to have it do trample damage, ramming his shoulder into anything in his path, proc crit, and go into a fury if you have enough SP for it.
  • MisterWhiskersMisterWhiskers
    Vindictus Rep: 2,615
    Posts: 348
    As the result, KR server Karoks are taking one of these choices.
    1. completely delete their characters and leave the game completely.
    2. sell their gears and accounts through online, then delete the game.
    3. try to convince the director again, which is a complete waste.

    The KR server Karoks are still quitting as I am addressing this report. Some players in KR server actually
    criticizing the current director, since his reckless patch is about to extinct an entire population of a character.

    holy fak ; I knew koreans absolutely love TV dramas but I never imagined they also like real life drama to such degree
  • quietguyquietguy
    Vindictus Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 79
    It sounds like they're trying to get rid of old chars by nerfing them to the point where we leave them.
    If they decide to remove a char from the game altogether, will they transfer all items to another char of our choosing?
  • hugemelllhugemelll
    Vindictus Rep: 905
    Posts: 32
    quietguy wrote: »
    It sounds like they're trying to get rid of old chars by nerfing them to the point where we leave them.
    If they decide to remove a char from the game altogether, will they transfer all items to another char of our choosing?

    nope, they won't do that. at least the current director will never give such service to players.
  • EnigmaTaroEnigmaTaro
    Vindictus Rep: 3,815
    Posts: 441
    Male outfitters take three times the effort to make: male, tall, giant.

    They want everyone to switch to female so they can simply make female outfitters and make sure 100% of you will be buying those.
    Female outfitters are more popular and only requires making one model (female).

    And DOI is not scared to do these bold move, because he knows you guys will always come back!