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why did they make the game so easy ?

havoc23havoc23
Vindictus Rep: 1,410
Posts: 39
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in General Discussion
just came back figured id make a new character with the server merge and damn everything is so easy now, no hard mode no hero mode till level 90 why did they do this ? and do you guys like this better this way ? feels like they sucked the fun out of the game at least for the lower levels

Comments

  • KursKurs
    Vindictus Rep: 2,320
    Posts: 200
    Member
    I don't know D: apparently they thought it was a good idea. some people hate it and think it's too easy and others think it's great apparently. I don't like it personally and rather have the different difficulty modes thing.
  • Raiden25Raiden25
    Vindictus Rep: 850
    Posts: 21
    Member
    They sucked the fun of this game a long time ago. lol.
  • AeledingAeleding
    Vindictus Rep: 1,155
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    They slowly make the game easier because the veterans/hardcore players slowly leave and they want to appeal more to casual players. Now to experience a bit of a challenge, you have to wait until s3. I guess they just want the new players to enjoy the story more (it's actually not so bad starting from rocheste) and then if they like the gameplay they'll stay for more. Imo that's the way they thought it would work...
  • MisterWhiskersMisterWhiskers
    Vindictus Rep: 2,615
    Posts: 348
    Member
    edited November 18, 2017
    someone on vindictus subreddit was complaining that he can't past normal glass so no,the game isn't too easy if you view it from a new player perspective (which was the aim of rise)
    BabyDani
  • EnigmaTaroEnigmaTaro
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    One of the things that comes to my mind is that if there are different difficulties, people wouldn't want to do easy mode back then.
    It becomes an issue when new players couldn't get past stuff like s2 lv7080 kraken and refuse to do easy mode. I even pm'd these players when they were seeking party members to just do easy mode, but NOPE, gonna wait 1 hour for people to carry when they could've earned MORE EXP ELSEWHERE during that given timeframe.

    Endgame players got better things to do than helping new players, so yeah, devcat had to redesign the early content to make it suitable for solo playthrough to keep new players motivated. They even made enchant/ enhance restricted to higher levels to prevent player exploits improve player experience.
  • HallyHally
    Vindictus Rep: 1,985
    Posts: 245
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    The entirety of season 1 got essentially turned into easy mode to cater to new players. Season 2 is about the same as what it used to be if you just stay with the free gear, but can be significantly easier if you go get some better gear.

    Once you get to season 3, it gets a lot more difficult without putting more effort into gearing than previously. The differences between the free +10 gear, vs +15 weapon with properly enchanted armor/accessories are so astronomical that what seems like an under 1 minute beatdown for a geared character can easily turn into a 10+ minute boss grind where you barely see the boss HP bar move on a char with the free gear.
  • CometCupidCometCupid
    Vindictus Rep: 1,990
    Posts: 166
    Member
    EnigmaTaro wrote: »
    One of the things that comes to my mind is that if there are different difficulties, people wouldn't want to do easy mode back then.
    It becomes an issue when new players couldn't get past stuff like s2 lv7080 kraken and refuse to do easy mode.

    It's strange considering this system works in TOR. Maybe if they took up the lingo of changing "easy mode" to "story mode" and putting a note on harder modes that they're meant to be played in a party, the newbies wouldn't feel as patronized. They already streamlined the exp and loot in a similar manner, if they made a worthless achievement system for tryhards we might be able to get the old difficulty back without complaints from casuals.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
    Vindictus Rep: 8,530
    Posts: 1,320
    Member
    The Director decided that the company would be better off catering to new players than focusing on retaining those who enjoyed the game already. They seem to have missed the part of basic factors of demand, etc., that shows how much more expensive it is to attract new customers than to retain loyal ones, and how much more lucrative fewer loyal customers are than a myriad of new ones. It's not always true, but a general rule of thumb is that steady returns come in large volume from a smaller portion of customers, yet Nexon--or one person at Nexon/DevCat I should say--decided to ignore this and throw the whole game towards making it easy mode coming up to pull in as many new people as possible. The server merge that recently went down speaks to how well that turned out.

    There are plenty of other games that continue to succeed despite higher levels of difficulty earlier on. I can tell you that the people I played with or met when I first started playing didn't quit because the game was hard. They quit because of the constant stability issues and because of the ridiculous monetization of some of the cash shop items if they survived/decided to put up with the ridiculous amount of disconnects. Some of Rise has been amazing, like shards from runes and increase enhancement rates, but others have been disastrous, and the reduced population speaks to that.

    Three servers merged to one yet fewer MP listings than when East or West were solo and not even near their peaks. Community managers who don't communicate. A game that doesn't take feedback from players into consideration. The changes weren't made to make the game better, they were made because a few people think they know what's best and don't care in the least what the community wants nor what research and other titles actually show.
    PixelPantsu
  • BabyDaniBabyDani
    Vindictus Rep: 1,735
    Posts: 129
    Member
    CometCupid wrote: »
    Maybe if they took up the lingo of changing "easy mode" to "story mode" and putting a note on harder modes that they're meant to be played in a party, the newbies wouldn't feel as patronized.

    "story mode" is a great idea, would clear up a lot of confusion...

    but ya, as said above, i helped a newbie level recently, she didn't find the game easy at all...so it's a matter of perspective i guess. nexon wanted to make it more accessible to new/inexperienced players, and they also wanted to get you end game as fast as possible i think...
  • AbyssofthorAbyssofthor
    Vindictus Rep: 1,345
    Posts: 104
    Member
    I miss hard mode MEE25Lx.png
  • The_VillainThe_Villain
    Vindictus Rep: 1,550
    Posts: 103
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    edited November 18, 2017
    It's not "easy" for new players because they don't know what they're doing or understand boss mechanics vs. character abilities. For older players, it's too easy because everything was nerfed compared to how it was originally. There's a massive difficulty spike for the newer players that just finished s2 since you steamroll through everything up to s3, faster attacks that hit tremendously harder- albeit the only bosses that give you a run for your gold are Kraken and Ikrium before then.

    This update was meant to bring in new players.. It barely manages to do that, but does nothing to give them incentive to continue playing or keep older players happy. With that coupled with the fact that almost every event is locked behind a paywall, due to poorly managing the game and now having to bully & beg for money, both old, new, and casual players are being driven off.

    It's sad because pretty everyone love(d) the game for what it is and it's niche playstyle and want to spend money on it, but due to bad decisions and dirty business practices, no one really wants to continue on anymore. They shot themselves in the foot and have no one else to blame but themselves. Unless they roll back a few changes & start listening and interacting more to/with their community/customers, the game can be saved.. Ha.
  • KursKurs
    Vindictus Rep: 2,320
    Posts: 200
    Member
    I have to say though, it is pretty difficult to determine what is right. I've had to read articles on how some companies did listen to customer feedback and do everything that their customers wanted and still failed.
  • AeriesAeries
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    Reason why most of my friends are gone.
  • TamagoTamago
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    The current normal mode is the previous easy mode too. It's not even normal mode.
  • DragonRiderDragonRider
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    Aeleding wrote: »
    They slowly make the game easier because the veterans/hardcore players slowly leave and they want to appeal more to casual players. Now to experience a bit of a challenge, you have to wait until s3. I guess they just want the new players to enjoy the story more (it's actually not so bad starting from rocheste) and then if they like the gameplay they'll stay for more. Imo that's the way they thought it would work...

    What you said doesn't add up. Veterans / hardcore players don't leave this game, the casuals do. Hardcore players stick it out, grind, farm, learn the game, and love the atmosphere and gameplay - most of them are loyal and will stay. Casual players are, well, casual. You can't fix that no matter what you do. They have short attention spans and will flutter on to something else no matter what.

    Taking out the difficulty option in this game to "appeal to more casual players" doesn't really add up. The easy mode option was always there for casuals to skate through the gameplay if they chose to. So why they decided to completely abolish the hard difficulty option for hardcore players is beyond reasoning - they're only driving away people who desire a challenge. Now they'll lose those hardcore people AND the casuals too (because casuals always flake off no matter what you do).
  • havoc23havoc23
    Vindictus Rep: 1,410
    Posts: 39
    Member
    they need to rebalance again then, i get making it alil easyer for new players but to easy means new players will get bored before they even hit level 60 and end up quitting anyway thats why in my opinion it was better when you could pick if you wanted to play normal hard or hero mode . i remember my first time fighting irukul was so much fun and he beat all of our asses and it was 6 people..... i duoed him last week and he was nothing but easy and boring
    Blackbirdx61
  • hibuddyhibuddy
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    Posts: 18
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    if anything it helps deal with the game's lower population by making it easier to get to endgame, thereby it funnels players to the same areas, s3 content.
  • Blackbirdx61Blackbirdx61
    Vindictus Rep: 1,055
    Posts: 50
    Member
    A Question and a Comment.
    Q: The Wiki seems Quite out of Date, no mention at all of an Easy Mode. https://vindictus.gamepedia.com/Battle_Quest_Difficulty#Easy_Mode_Battle_Quests
    What are the official modes of this game today. (19Nov 17).

    Comment: As an experienced MMO Player, not Vindi though; Devs you got to give us a hard mode; or even a reasonably difficult normal mode please don't underestimate your Audience/Players. I think new players to Vindi will be more experienced MMO players who want to give Vindi a try, than absolute beginners who have to be hand held through the content. Most beginners will be kids chasing the latest shinyest object on tv, and will be chasing the new star wars game or something in heavy rotation.

    Even so by lv 10 or so its time to start taking the training wheels off. I reached the prairie today , supposedly Lv 30 content, a pack of about 6 Gnolls ran up to me. As an experiment I did nothing for about a minute, in that time one Gnoll took a swing at me with his mace and did like 1% damage, otherwise they just stood there snarling, waiting to get killed! Seriously? That's Lv 30 content in normal mode? Who thought such nonsense was a good idea? I still play GW1 socially, I have friends there; and in that game even the Lowliest Charr will give killing you his very best effort, every time, and that what I want; what I think most players of Action games want, whats the challenge, whats the fun in slaughtering so many cyber-cattle

    Now Im no elite by anyone's definition, but there is a difference between casual and catatonic guys. I Honestly I wish the content to Lv 20 was a lot more challenging, or I had a more challenging option button to sharpen my skills on after the first try at a reasonable level of difficulty. You give your players some magnificent weapons, how do you not get you have to challenge us with foes worthy of those weapons! Your present system gives the player no chance to develop there skills for if/ when, they reach season three and I understand the content finally becomes more challenging.

    You can get this right guys, but you seem to have forgotten that taking candy from babies engenders no sense of accomplishment. Players will soon get bored and leave; and meaningless titles for doing nothing will not change that, God I have like 14 Titles already for basically breathing, Thats not what players want folks; If you want your players to stay, and pay, you have to challenge them, give them a foe that takes some skill to overcome, then they will want to play, they'll want to beat that B'stard ! I remember two weeks just beating a Dragon named Rotscale with Prophecies only skills in GW1; why do I remember that after 6 or so years, because it was hard, it was an accomplishment worth remembering. Give us the chance to do something worth remembering.

    Challenging your players, that does not mean crush them like bugs, but there has to be a sane middle ground between Harmless, and bionic thumbs required.
    Heck games have been doing this since Tekken, which had like 10 levels? There are more options than, lame and just nuts evil. And while we are at it, Please tier access to hard mode, assuming you bring it back. With a Lv 90 cap A player could take a while to complete the story, and personally I've no interest in blitz leveling a game the first time though. So please let us access hard/ hero mode, . As you complete a mission or at least a quest hub. You can keep the record in the appdata, and no doubt you would so its not a lot of spam at your end for the server to handle it can all be done by the client on the users computer.

    I'm Honestly starting to think I downloaded Vindi a year too late because the game I thought I was getting has been nerfed beyond recognition. If this was done to encourage new players to join and stay with Vindi, take it from this new player, you've made a huge mistake, and have taken a giant step in the wrong direction; but there is still time to reverse course. I suggest you do so as soon as possible, so as to not ruin the experience of any new players drawn into to check out the new mercenary.

    The code must still be there, so please re-implement the pre Rising difficulty scheme, and stop infantilizing your players. We are not babies, certainly players of anything as dark as Vindi are not babies, we don't need to be walked through the bad neighborhood baby step by baby step our tiny hands firmly held by Daddy

    Nuff said, I dont mean to ramble but hopefully someone in development is listening.

    EnigmaTaro wrote: »
    Endgame players got better things to do than helping new players, so yeah, devcat had to redesign the early content to make it suitable for solo play through to keep new players motivated. They even made enchant/ enhance restricted to higher levels to prevent player exploits improve player experience.

    In GW2 NC soft implemented a system where a player could adopt a "Commander" tag, so experienced players that choose to can lead Hero Point trains, World boss events, WvW zergs and Raids, now I know Vindi is much more heavily instanced than Vindi, but giving players that wish to some visible identifier that says newbie friendly, and maybe some titles/credit to collect in return for their time and trouble, or waive the 1 +90 per day Dungeon Limit for those sporting a commander tag so they can teach newbies the harder dungeons.

    It might well serve both communities better. I can tell you for a fact the system has been a huge success and one of the best ideas ever implemented in GW2.

    Your thoughts. BB

    My apologies for the lateness of this reply, but I have been editing and reediting this post for a week, the message at the top of the page says please give the Moderators 24 hours to approve, but those appear to be Galactic Standard hours, or 1/24th a rotation

    Is 'e Alright!? You put a Sword right through his 'ead!


  • Blackbirdx61Blackbirdx61
    Vindictus Rep: 1,055
    Posts: 50
    Member
    A Question and a Comment.
    Q: The Wiki seems Quite out of Date, no mention at all of an Easy Mode. https://vindictus.gamepedia.com/Battle_Quest_Difficulty#Easy_Mode_Battle_Quests
    What are the official modes of this game today. (19Nov 17).

    Comment: As an experienced MMO Player, not Vindi though; Devs you got to give us a hard mode; or even a reasonably difficult normal mode please don't underestimate your Audience/Players. I think new players to Vindi will be more experienced MMO players who want to give Vindi a try, than absolute beginners who have to be hand held through the content. Most beginners will be kids chasing the latest shinyest object on tv, and will be chasing the new star wars game or something in heavy rotation.

    Even so by lv 10 or so its time to start taking the training wheels off. I reached the prairie today , supposedly Lv 30 content, a pack of about 6 Gnolls ran up to me. As an experiment I did nothing for about a minute, in that time one Gnoll took a swing at me with his mace and did like 1% damage, otherwise they just stood there snarling, waiting to get killed! Seriously? That's Lv 30 content in normal mode? Who thought such nonsense was a good idea? I still play GW1 socially, I have friends there; and in that game even the Lowliest Charr will give killing you his very best effort, every time, and that what I want; what I think most players of Action games want, whats the challenge, whats the fun in slaughtering so many tomato cans.

    Now Im no elite by anyone's definition, but there is a difference between casual and catatonic guys. I Honestly I wish the content to Lv 20 was a lot more challenging, or I had a more challenging option button to sharpen my skills on after the first try at a reasonable level of difficulty. You give your players some magnificent weapons, how do you not get you have to challenge us with foes worthy of those weapons! Your present system gives the player no chance to develop there skills for if/ when, they reach season three and I understand the content finally becomes more challenging.

    You can get this right guys, but you seem to have forgotten that taking candy from babies engenders no sense of accomplishment. Players will soon get bored and leave; and meaningless titles for doing nothing will not change that, God I have like 14 Titles already for basically breathing, Thats not what players want folks; If you want your players to stay, and pay, you have to challenge them, give them a foe that takes some skill to overcome, then they will want to play, they'll want to beat that B'stard ! I remember two weeks just beating a Dragon named Rotscale with Prophecies only skills in GW1; why do I remember that after 6 or so years, because it was hard, it was an accomplishment worth remembering. Give us the chance to do something worth remembering.

    Challenging your players, that does not mean crush them like bugs, but there has to be a sane middle ground between Harmless, and bionic thumbs required.
    Heck games have been doing this since Tekken, which had like 10 levels? There are more options than, lame and just nuts evil. And while we are at it, Please tier access to hard mode, assuming you bring it back. With a Lv 90 cap A player could take a while to complete the story, and personally I've no interest in blitz leveling a game the first time though. So please let us access hard/ hero mode, . As you complete a mission or at least a quest hub. You can keep the record in the appdata, and no doubt you would so its not a lot of spam at your end for the server to handle it can all be done by the client on the users computer.

    I'm Honestly starting to think I downloaded Vindi a year too late because the game I thought I was getting has been nerfed beyond recognition. If this was done to encourage new players to join and stay with Vindi, take it from this new player, you've made a huge mistake, and have taken a giant step in the wrong direction; but there is still time to reverse course. I suggest you do so as soon as possible, so as to not ruin the experience of any new players drawn into to check out the new mercenary.

    The code must still be there, so please re-implement the pre Rising difficulty scheme, and stop infantilizing your players. We are not babies, certainly players of anything as dark as Vindi are not babies, we don't need to be walked through the bad neighborhood baby step by baby step our tiny hands firmly held by Daddy

    Nuff said, I dont mean to ramble but hopefully someone in development is listening.

    EnigmaTaro wrote: »
    Endgame players got better things to do than helping new players, so yeah, devcat had to redesign the early content to make it suitable for solo play through to keep new players motivated. They even made enchant/ enhance restricted to higher levels to prevent player exploits improve player experience.

    In GW2 NC soft implemented a system where a player could adopt a "Commander" tag, so experienced players that choose to can lead Hero Point trains, World boss events, WvW zergs and Raids, now I know Vindi is much more heavily instanced than Vindi, but giving players that wish to some visible identifier that says newbie friendly, and maybe some titles/credit to collect in return for their time and trouble, or waive the 1 +90 per day Dungeon Limit for those sporting a commander tag so they can teach newbies the harder dungeons.

    It might well serve both communities better. I can tell you for a fact the system has been a huge success and one of the best ideas ever implemented in GW2.

    Your thoughts. BB

    My apologies for the lateness of this reply, but I have been editing and reediting this post for a week, the message at the top of the page says please give the Moderators 24 hours to approve, but those appear to be Galactic Standard hours, or 1/24th a rotation

    Is 'e Alright!? You put a Sword right through his 'ead!


  • Blackbirdx61Blackbirdx61
    Vindictus Rep: 1,055
    Posts: 50
    Member
    A Question and a Comment.
    Q: The Wiki seems Quite out of Date, no mention at all of an Easy Mode. https://vindictus.gamepedia.com/Battle_Quest_Difficulty#Easy_Mode_Battle_Quests
    What are the official modes of this game today. (19Nov 17).

    Comment: As an experienced MMO Player, not Vindi though; Devs you got to give us a hard mode; or even a reasonably difficult normal mode please don't underestimate your Audience/Players. I think new players to Vindi will be more experienced MMO players who want to give Vindi a try, than absolute beginners who have to be hand held through the content. Most beginners will be kids chasing the latest shinyest object on tv, and will be chasing the new star wars game or something in heavy rotation.

    Even so by lv 10 or so its time to start taking the training wheels off. I reached the prairie today , supposedly Lv 30 content, a pack of about 6 Gnolls ran up to me. As an experiment I did nothing for about a minute, in that time one Gnoll took a swing at me with his mace and did like 1% damage, otherwise they just stood there snarling, waiting to get killed! Seriously? That's Lv 30 content in normal mode? Who thought such nonsense was a good idea? I still play GW1 socially, have friends there; and in that game, even the Lowliest Charr will give killing you his very best effort, every time, and that what I want; what I think most players of Action games want, whats the challange, whats the fun in Slaughtering so many tomato cans.

    Now Im no elite by anyone's definition, but there is a difference between casual and catatonic guys. I Honestly I wish the content to Lv 20 was a lot more challenging, or I had a more challenging option button to sharpen my skills on after the first try at a reasonable level of difficulty. You give your players some magnificent weapons, how do you not get you have to challenge us with foes worthy of those weapons! Your present system gives the player no chance to develop there skills for if/ when, they reach season three and I understand the content finally becomes more challenging.

    You can get this right guys, but you seem to have forgotten that taking candy from babies engenders no sense of accomplishment. Players will soon get bored and leave; and meaningless titles for doing nothing will not change that, God I have like 14 Titles already for basically breathing, Thats not what players want folks; If you want your players to stay, and pay, you have to challenge them, give them a foe that takes some skill to overcome, then they will want to play, they'll want to beat that B'stard ! I remember two weeks just beating a Dragon named Rotscale with Prophecies only skills in GW1; why do I remember that after 6 or so years, because it was hard, it was an accomplishment worth remembering. Give us the chance to do something worth remembering.

    Challenging your players, that does not mean crush them like bugs, but there has to be a sane middle ground between Harmless, and bionic thumbs required.
    Heck games have been doing this since Tekken, which had like 10 levels? There are more options than, lame and just nuts evil. And while we are at it, Please tier access to hard mode, assuming you bring it back. With a Lv 90 cap A player could take a while to complete the story, and personally I've no interest in blitz leveling a game the first time though. So please let us access hard/ hero mode, . As you complete a mission or at least a quest hub. You can keep the record in the appdata, and no doubt you would so its not a lot of spam at your end for the server to handle it can all be done by the client on the users computer.

    I'm Honestly starting to think I downloaded Vindi a year too late because the game I thought I was getting has been nerfed beyond recognition. If this was done to encourage new players to join and stay with Vindi, take it from this new player, you've made a huge mistake, and have taken a giant step in the wrong direction; but there is still time to reverse course. I suggest you do so as soon as possible, so as to not ruin the experience of any new players drawn into to check out the new mercenary.

    The code must still be there, so please re-implement the pre Rising difficulty scheme, and stop infantilizing your players. We are not babies, certainly players of anything as dark as Vindi are not babies, we don't need to be walked through the bad neighborhood baby step by baby step our tiny hands firmly held by Daddy

    Nuff said, I dont mean to ramble but hopefully someone in development is listening.

    EnigmaTaro wrote: »
    Endgame players got better things to do than helping new players, so yeah, devcat had to redesign the early content to make it suitable for solo play through to keep new players motivated. They even made enchant/ enhance restricted to higher levels to prevent player exploits improve player experience.

    In GW2 NC soft implemented a system where a player could adopt a "Commander" tag, so experienced players that choose to can lead Hero Point trains, World boss events, WvW zergs and Raids, now I know Vindi is much more heavily instanced than Vindi, but giving players that wish to some visible identifier that says newbie friendly, and maybe some titles/credit to collect in return for their time and trouble, or waive the 1 +90 per day Dungeon Limit for those sporting a commander tag so they can teach newbies the harder dungeons.

    It might well serve both communities better. I can tell you for a fact the system has been a huge success and one of the best ideas ever implemented in GW2.

    Your thoughts. BB

    My apologies for the lateness of this reply, but I have been editing and reediting this post for a week, the message at the top of the page says please give the Moderators 24 hours to approve, but those appear to be Galactic Standard hours, or 1/24th a rotation

    Is 'e Alright!? You put a Sword right through his 'ead!