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So who wants a RollBack?

Comments

  • ErinieIErinieI
    Vindictus Rep: 2,380
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    Hilarious.
    Just. Hilarious.
    KenshinX
  • DrusaDrusa
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    Treating Vindictus like an old school MMO. snrk.

    The game was never truly challenging. You only perceive it that way simply because you had a hard time learning the bosses until you finally got geared properly and knew how to fight them. The same applies to new players coming into the game even right now. If anything this perception of Vindictus being a challenging game is merely a delusion. Only way to make this game challenging, since the start, is handicapping yourself or trying 0 hits.
  • SaintGuinnessSaintGuinness
    Vindictus Rep: 1,730
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    Drusa wrote: »
    Treating Vindictus like an old school MMO. snrk.

    The game was never truly challenging. You only perceive it that way simply because you had a hard time learning the bosses until you finally got geared properly and knew how to fight them. The same applies to new players coming into the game even right now. If anything this perception of Vindictus being a challenging game is merely a delusion. Only way to make this game challenging, since the start, is handicapping yourself or trying 0 hits.

    Idk how long you've been here but I've been around since the time when they had a token system to get on boats. You literally described what made this game challenging. We had to learn the moves of a new boss and gear up. That's the point. That's the challenge. I still remember how hard Rocheste Glas was when he first came out. I remember the chaos that ensued when the first 24man raid came out. I remember when the Polar bear was new or when we use to have to work as a team to knock Lionotus off the cliff. Sure, all of those things become child's play when you progress pass it but that was the point of having a Hero mode-- to make those older runs more relevant to advance players.

    I agree with you that none of that is true now. We have to dumb down our gear to have the illusion of a challenge but it wasn't always this way. There was a time when you really had to think and work as a team to beat a boss.
    ZaeadrasKayoAemskeyMochiSweetSkiegh
  • EbonwingsEbonwings
    Vindictus Rep: 1,790
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    So many Colru wipes when he first came out.

    Good times. B)
    Zaeadras
  • RhilinRhilin
    Vindictus Rep: 1,070
    Posts: 47
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    There's enough recycled content with Ein Lacher, Abyssal Arena and etc. Let go of past raids, let them die in peace. Focus on the new content instead of complaining that the outdated content is outdated.
  • VladinoVladino
    Vindictus Rep: 2,875
    Posts: 231
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    Rhilin wrote: »
    There's enough recycled content with Ein Lacher, Abyssal Arena and etc. Let go of past raids, let them die in peace. Focus on the new content instead of complaining that the outdated content is outdated.
    It isn't about recycled content... It's about the removed content...

    When I started the game I couldn't clear Red ruins solo (died in 2 hits) so I found a host and we went in 2 and it was fun. After few phoenix feathers we managed to beat that big red gnoll and I started to think that Raids are too difficult for me to solo but they are soo much entertaining (Bodies flying, trying to revive at all costs, running around).

    Later when I joined guild we did Rocheste raids on hard for breakoffs and seals (to lvl up expertise) that's what made me look at Vindi from different view. Doing old glass break off was totally epic
    as he tear his own wing off.
    Hooking Thor's month and cutting of his tongue was the true challenge of that raid.

    At that time I didn't even have 18k attack so most of hosters kicked me from s2 boats and I couldn't host. When I went kraken for the first time in party I didn't know what to do and we failed him so I watched all the strategies for s2/s3 on youtube later.

    My most favorite S2 raid was "Gates of hell" -> Lavasat even if hooks were sometimes bugged it felt good when your tiny character hooked the right horn and made Lava collide with the wall.

    "Focus on the new content instead of complaining that the outdated content is outdated." How can we focus new content when almost nothin new. New content is from lvl 1-10 and you can do it in 15 mins maybe less. When you run something 50,100,200,500,1000 times it becomes boring and now we have less options. It's a pity that all the funny content was removed/not worth to go anymore. Who wouldn't complain when their favorite spots are removed, bugs are added, zero old bugs fixed (is fixed then removed from the game). Why 4 man raid why not 12 man or even 20 man or 100 man for full guild (is hp scaling that difficult to implement, yes I know that even nasa pc can't host that but still).

    If anyone sees this as a mare complain I don't mind -> Just wanted to point out what was epic for me when I started playing Vindi
  • GewelliriousGewellirious
    Vindictus Rep: 2,945
    Posts: 364
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    edited July 23, 2017
    Keeping some of the quality of life changes while returning 8-player modes and removing the additional damage revisions would be more than welcome, but considering that even well-known players and guilds quitting in KR has done nothing to make a change, I don't know what differences our voices will make. Still going to speak with my wallet, though.

    Because it's simple : it's bull, barely none of them actually did quit. Look at junyoop for example.

    And it's pretty much the same here : aside from me, I haven't seen any from EU that literally said "yeah I agree with you it's bull" that actually did quit the game as well, funily I'm supposed to be the most addicted player there. (since I 'quitted' so many times)
    Pretty much none of new content is getting me back either, or well the new raid seems to be really good actually but : barely any rewarding + this last episode is lazy as ****, no wonder why it didn't needed a test server phase at all, the episode is one raid with like, what, 2 rewards ?

    On top of that, you're still getting RNG starting from +10, nice game. Oh and, still the same difference of additional damage bull.. I wouldn't mind if it was a Blade and Soul type of game where teamwork actually matters, but in Vindictus, you can pretty much do alone. So when you see the difference in damage, and you deal 10% because +10, you really feel useless, even if you played good w/o getting hit or anything, the game doesn't reward that. (mind I was dealing top damage with +10 purple scythe before, or around the same damage at least, never been below 2% in general if I didn't get top deeeeeeps)

    So yeah, bull. Also their way of optimization is making raids 4-players, like lol, get a grip of yourself...

    The Fairy Tail of mmo's.
  • DrusaDrusa
    Vindictus Rep: 2,100
    Posts: 120
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    edited July 22, 2017
    Drusa wrote: »
    Treating Vindictus like an old school MMO. snrk.

    The game was never truly challenging. You only perceive it that way simply because you had a hard time learning the bosses until you finally got geared properly and knew how to fight them. The same applies to new players coming into the game even right now. If anything this perception of Vindictus being a challenging game is merely a delusion. Only way to make this game challenging, since the start, is handicapping yourself or trying 0 hits.

    Idk how long you've been here but I've been around since the time when they had a token system to get on boats. You literally described what made this game challenging. We had to learn the moves of a new boss and gear up. That's the point. That's the challenge. I still remember how hard Rocheste Glas was when he first came out. I remember the chaos that ensued when the first 24man raid came out. I remember when the Polar bear was new or when we use to have to work as a team to knock Lionotus off the cliff. Sure, all of those things become child's play when you progress pass it but that was the point of having a Hero mode-- to make those older runs more relevant to advance players.

    I agree with you that none of that is true now. We have to dumb down our gear to have the illusion of a challenge but it wasn't always this way. There was a time when you really had to think and work as a team to beat a boss.



    Delete your account. Forget everything about the current bosses that are relevant and try again.

    Guess what, same experience as you've described.

    Nostalgia deludes a lot of people.

    Sure, there isn't a lot of content coming out but that's just the state of the game currently henceforth the lack of challenge. However Neamhain has been the hardest challenge yet in this game since release.
  • FranBunnyFFXIIFranBunnyFFXII
    Vindictus Rep: 1,700
    Posts: 56
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    I can't believe they spent thousands of dollars to remove content and downgrade the replayabiluty of their game and upgrade stuff that no one was going to spend more than 10 minutes around now that there's no replayability.

    How stupid can nexon get? I don't understand.
    Zaeadras
  • ZaeadrasZaeadras
    Vindictus Rep: 765
    Posts: 50
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    Puppyman wrote: »
    Ah jeez, finally easy to acquire decent stats and now people want to go back.
    I'd rather they fix and attune things then dare ruin everything with a massive bound to fail rollback
    Your tone will change when we get Dullahan and you'll need at least 90 balance and 105 crit to even take part

  • AtherionAtherion
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    90 balance and 105 crit, what is this? 2012?
  • V0lterixV0lterix
    Vindictus Rep: 1,555
    Posts: 144
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    Zaeadras wrote: »
    Puppyman wrote: »
    Ah jeez, finally easy to acquire decent stats and now people want to go back.
    I'd rather they fix and attune things then dare ruin everything with a massive bound to fail rollback
    Your tone will change when we get Dullahan and you'll need at least 90 balance and 105 crit to even take part

    That's just the minimum for quick battle. And if you don't even meet those stats, you are going to be dead weight in Dullahan, doing less than 5% damage.
  • RhilinRhilin
    Vindictus Rep: 1,070
    Posts: 47
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    edited July 23, 2017
    Vladino wrote: »
    Rhilin wrote: »
    There's enough recycled content with Ein Lacher, Abyssal Arena and etc. Let go of past raids, let them die in peace. Focus on the new content instead of complaining that the outdated content is outdated.
    It isn't about recycled content... It's about the removed content...

    When I started the game I couldn't clear Red ruins solo (died in 2 hits) so I found a host and we went in 2 and it was fun. After few phoenix feathers we managed to beat that big red gnoll and I started to think that Raids are too difficult for me to solo but they are soo much entertaining (Bodies flying, trying to revive at all costs, running around).

    Later when I joined guild we did Rocheste raids on hard for breakoffs and seals (to lvl up expertise) that's what made me look at Vindi from different view. Doing old glass break off was totally epic
    as he tear his own wing off.
    Hooking Thor's month and cutting of his tongue was the true challenge of that raid.

    At that time I didn't even have 18k attack so most of hosters kicked me from s2 boats and I couldn't host. When I went kraken for the first time in party I didn't know what to do and we failed him so I watched all the strategies for s2/s3 on youtube later.

    My most favorite S2 raid was "Gates of hell" -> Lavasat even if hooks were sometimes bugged it felt good when your tiny character hooked the right horn and made Lava collide with the wall.

    "Focus on the new content instead of complaining that the outdated content is outdated." How can we focus new content when almost nothin new. New content is from lvl 1-10 and you can do it in 15 mins maybe less. When you run something 50,100,200,500,1000 times it becomes boring and now we have less options. It's a pity that all the funny content was removed/not worth to go anymore. Who wouldn't complain when their favorite spots are removed, bugs are added, zero old bugs fixed (is fixed then removed from the game). Why 4 man raid why not 12 man or even 20 man or 100 man for full guild (is hp scaling that difficult to implement, yes I know that even nasa pc can't host that but still).

    If anyone sees this as a mare complain I don't mind -> Just wanted to point out what was epic for me when I started playing Vindi

    What did they remove? Your nostalgia? The reason to replay a boss? When was this time you describing? Can I guess it's when S1 was either ongoing or just finished? The reason it was hard it's because it was the endgame. There was no outdated content for people to have a learning curve hence you faced the full force of the lack of it. Lavasat was my favourite S2 raid as well and I had fun times when it launched but I haven't done a S2 raid since Regina came out so I guess it would be best for you to move on as well. It's impossible to have power creep, progression and to keep 10lvl content relevent for endgame users nor is it meant to. If you're expecting gnoll chieftain to take 20 min with 2 people and need someone to host, well write to Nexon to close up shop and close vindi for everyone outside KR because i can guarantee you that no new players will put up with that.
    I'm sorry but not everyone wants to spend 40 minutes on a 'raid' that will drop a orange that's not even worth listing on the market. Vindictus relases stuff pretty regularly so I don't understand your logic on being bored of the 'new' raids but your solution for being tired of S3 raids is to run even older raids that you've done even more. While some want challenging new bosses with teamplay mechanics and whatnot (I understand and I'm fine with this) but you ahve to realise there are people that want just a sandbag boss without any annoying mechanics that cripple or limit your skillset (like me).
  • BreastGrillBreastGrill
    Vindictus Rep: 1,675
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    edited July 23, 2017
    I feel the biggest problem with Rise is that instead of making past raids more relevant, they decided to completely trivialize what is quite literally most of the game at this point. I was excited to hear that S2 "raids" were finally getting a hero mode, and was excited to try them out with my friends, but after destroying most of them in less than just a couple of minutes, I was terrified at what they did to this content.

    Makes it even more puzzling when you consider that Hero mode was already locked to players that aren't maxed level yet.

    When S3 released, S2 raids were kept relevant with the option of the lv80-90 difficulty mode, as well as the fact that they dropped r7 scrolls that season 3 did not at the time. When you think about RISE and what it did to previous content, it seems counterintuitive compared to what they did in the past. Devcat could have done something similar with this rise update when it came to past content, but they didn't.

    It's not about recycling content solely for this nostalgia concept people are pushing; it's about making the game's content more relevant to veterans so there are more things to do; which I feel is very important for a game like vindictus that balances itself around its PvE elements.
    Rhilin wrote: »
    While some want challenging new bosses with teamplay mechanics and whatnot (I understand and I'm fine with this) but you ahve to realise there are people that want just a sandbag boss without any annoying mechanics that cripple or limit your skillset (like me).

    Before rise was a thing, if you wanted a sandbag boss, stuff like easier difficulties existed. Drawing back on what someone said on this forum before though, stupid players exist and will never do easier difficulties because "it's easy", but when they do harder difficulties, they'll just complain about mechanics and the boss crippling their skillset. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    KayoAemskeyKingRichRice
  • VladinoVladino
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    Rhilin wrote: »
    What did they remove? Your nostalgia? The reason to replay a boss? When was this time you describing? Can I guess it's when S1 was either ongoing or just finished?
    I'm playing only about 1 and half year now (started playing when Sylas came out EU server). And I think they removed teamplay from the game along with many dungeons, mechanics, fashion items.

    At that time there was Regina Braha and Terminus I think. When orange mats came to the seal shop many players stopped going S3 raids beside Eochaid and only farmed S2 raids for scrolls (only worth thing that time). So endgame that time was whole S2 and S3 and you could chose from (11x S2 and 5x S3 = 16 in total VS 6x S3 and 1 redeemer = 7 in total). We even run S1 raids for well-balanced and leopard es. I would really like to move on but since 1 year ago they have only added Habident, Ein lacher* (I bet you won't run it anymore after completing it), Abysal tower* (I find it super boring), Alban festival*, Royal Laki*, Special raids*, Redeemers. Those with star (*) are recycled so one year and only Barbhe storyline is new and that's kind of disappointment.

    I don't want rollback but I feel disappointed by the direction Vindictus is going now. Peace.
  • KayoAemskeyKayoAemskey
    Vindictus Rep: 1,790
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    edited July 23, 2017
    Drusa wrote: »
    Treating Vindictus like an old school MMO. snrk.

    The game was never truly challenging. You only perceive it that way simply because you had a hard time learning the bosses until you finally got geared properly and knew how to fight them. The same applies to new players coming into the game even right now. If anything this perception of Vindictus being a challenging game is merely a delusion. Only way to make this game challenging, since the start, is handicapping yourself or trying 0 hits.

    Those are certainly opinions.

    I started playing Vindictus for the first time 3 weeks before RISE dropped in the US, alongside a buddy who hadn't played since boat tokens were a thing. To a small extent, you are right. Vindictus WASN'T mind mindbogglingly challenging for the most part. Generally once you knew a boss' patterns, individually you could handle it on your own well enough. But it still required *some* measure of intelligence to play. Still needed to dodge, find room to heal, repair your armor, etc.

    I don't know when the last time *YOU* leveled from 0 on a *FRESH* account *BEFORE THE RISE UPDATE HIT* was, but mine was quite recent. I never *once* considered that the game was too easy. Were some levels throwaway junk battles? Sure. Most of them are for the sake of argument. And beyond that a large majority of bosses are just glorified sandbags waiting for you to beat them down. But for every dozen missions that exist you don't remember, I bet there are 2 bosses or boss fights you've had before RISE that you *CAN'T FORGET.*

    I'd love to ask you to prove your sentiments on how Vindictus having challenge before was merely a "delusion," but you physically *CAN'T* anymore. I'd ask you to level to mid 50's roughly. Fresh and new. Unfunded. And tell you fight Irukul. From the chase to the battle proper. Alone. Just like I did my first time. It should be easy, according to you right? Just a simple stroll through a cave, followed by a battle that won't last more than oh say....15 or 20 minutes(depending on your character of course). Where every time you make a mistake, you are brutally tossed aside for a big chunk of life, and forced to pick yourself back up while the boss stays up and ready to put you back down.

    I *would* ask you to demonstrate. But I can't anymore. The devs decided they didn't want their game to be challenging to new players/alts. Irukul has no chase. He doesn't hurt. His HP has been nerfed into obscurity, along with the rest of the game's early content. You don't need anything. You could *LEGITIMATELY* strip yourself down to nothing but a wooden weapon and your boxers and that giant ugly pos would never even come close to killing you now. And hell even if he did you could just suck down a couple of these new instant HP potions.
    Drusa wrote: »
    Delete your account. Forget everything about the current bosses that are relevant and try again.

    Guess what, same experience as you've described.

    If this feels like the same experience you were getting however long ago, I'm happy for you. Ignorance must be bliss.
    jjX
  • NasseNasse
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    bring back 8-man raid +sad
  • RizzleRizzle
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    I'm guessing that there was too much content to keep everything from before, so they had to make decisions about what to cut out and replace.
    Don't like it? Dont play.
    I don't.
    There are better games with better graphics, faster action, smoother animation, and less punishment. Games where risk results in reward. And greater risk results in more reward.
    But I do want to thank Nexon, and Vindictus. They helped me realize that Im not nearly as masochistic as I thought I was.
    The only reason i haven't deleted my account is I keep hoping that they will someday get it together and update this game to be on par with some other games that have been around for the same amount of time....but have large, some them huge, playerbases. And actual players, more players than bots and alts.

    Someday, maybe.
    Gewellirious
  • TrueAngelBloodTrueAngelBlood
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    A full rollback is needed
  • WhiteSizzleWhiteSizzle
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    Agree with others that +20 and add. damage are poor changes but everything else about RISE was either fine or pretty good.

    +16-20 is silly because +15 was already unrealistic enough and frankly +16 and up are only realistic for RMT abusers. Consider simply the price of the core components, it would take thousands of hours to make enough money in-game to purchase enough of them to get that +16-20. The only people realistically getting that far are people who are buying gold either via airtights or illegitimate means.

    Now granted, it's possible to get one by luck, but let's say every hour you play, you can try to enhance 1 orange weapon from 0-16. That's pretty crazy already, but let's say you just enhance blues maybe, and paras are very cheap, and let's say you even get +10 for free somehow. The chance to reach 10-15 is .08%, about 850 items for a 50% chance. So on average if 1000 people play for 850 hours to enhance 850 weapons, only half of them (500) will have a +15. Sounds bad right? If you add +16 into the mix, only about 70 people will have one. Less than 10 people will have a +17. Maybe one person will have a +18. Beyond that, probably nobody. That's 85,000 total man-hours played, and we've still barely created a handful of weapons beyond +15. Nobody can play over 85,000 man-hours solo, so who are these weapons for? Why are create an tier of item that's only realistic for RMT players? It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to have these goals that are never *really* achievable through in-game play.

    Additional damage is too out of control and it's killing alt-play. I sold off all my alt's stuff because compared to my +15 main, it hits like a toddler with a +11. The old power curve was fine.
    Gewellirious