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Hai
when we are at XE mode fiona was godly surviver at that new neamhain. now we merged na version. i m hammer user cuz love hammaaaaahhh!
well, now even large or small shield many of atacks cant be defended by fiona. so what should i do every time i have to do perfect defend ? every single hit?
and with large shield cant block every atack in heavy stander standing. So anything to do about that or they nerfed fiona while migration or is it normal ?
Comments
You can still hold guard for all but 3 of Neit's attacks, which makes fiona still super easy to play there.
As for when playing with Neamy, it's pretty much a test of reflex. Recognizing and knowing the timing of each attack is necessary as well of course. Just tap the guard button, don't hold it except for the spinny move that hits multiple times, but deflect is better for that one anyway. Deflect has a longer frame than perfect guard, so be sure to make good use of it too.
I personally don't recommend using heavy stander to block anything that will hit you in the next second, because for the first second or so, heavy stander also has a perfect block timing, no different than that of regular guard. Not sure if this is intended, but I've learned to live with it.
I don't know the raid well enough to predict all the hitboxes yet, so HS is a safe option if you do it early when you're not sure what to expect.
Deflect is really handy, and of course, if nothing happens, you can always fall back to guard (or HS).
Definitely focus on guarding and deflecting while you are figuring stuff out.
Hammer buff when ? Oh nevermind they made Delia instead.
I'd like to take it back. Hammer fiona could be actually quite viable and even might be able to solo her(ofc, stats come first).
Sry for the misleading and discouraging comments.
Vids here.
stats:
att:23.8k
def:14.4k
crit:128
spd:80
bal:89
which should be considered relatively low for neamhain. Yet I did 15% in 22 mins (and it was just a casual weekly premade run)
I won't doubt if I had 27k att and 140 crit, I'd be able to do around 24% in the given time. This should make hammer fiona stand out as one of the most op char in neamhain.
And for the record, a good party is needed for good dps outcome. You certainly don't wanna run into every edge of the map chasing till no end, being a 100% melee/counter type of char.
Very nice video, by the way. I like the way you play hammer!
Sword is just broken.. if u compare everything with sword, this game should already be Fionadictus..
Sounds like you're just salty you can't play hammer as good because it takes more skill than LS.
Longsword's gameplay is not faulty. And indeed a very offensive LS gameplay requires no any less skill. It is the damage and SP convert method that makes this class broken. Counter attack being not only the fastest SP gaining but also highest DPS just doesn't make any sense. Let's say, if you ever play Delia, you might know if you spamming Comet smashes, you'd run out of SP really fast cause the Comet doesn't charge much SP gauge. And if you use no Comet smashes at all, you would have a very sufficient SP, and yet damage sucks and you can't just convert all SP into pure damage in a short time. A Delia player must be aware how to keep a balance between Comet or non-Comet smashes. And let's head back to LS Fiona, there is no such a thing, because counter attack is way too powerful, it combines both damage and SP gaining. In this game, the desigh logic is more like strong attack always take a price, but Enhanced Counter attack is totally free.
If I were ever given the chance to rework LS Fiona, I would probably make enhanced Counter attack a passive skill , consuming a small amount of SP each time a 2nd counter attack is used. So player would be forced to choose between SP or more damage, instead of just spamming counter attack yet always have full SP guage
And please enlighten me, I would like to see how one could play hammer "as good because it takes more skill than LS".
While that is a much safer way to play, with the recent character buffs it actually lags behind against other characters in equally-skilled hands.
However an offense focused Fiona can mix in CA-ing + Amaranth along with Spamming Focal Point, Shield Dash into Focal Point, and "kick-hold" into Shield Dashing Focal Point. However depending on how good you are at rotating those skills along with mixing in the "Parry" damage buff, actually makes sword Fiona REALLY REALLY REALLY (did I mention REALLY) SP focused. Abom for example, I'm like constantly at 1 SP bar.
I actually see this as Fiona's trade off: low risk CA-ing + Amaranth focus but lower DPS, or high risk focal point focus that requires parry damage boost. In my opinion the low-risk aspect has always been Fiona's thing, her amazing survivability.
Now the main reason I believe that fiona is incredible in Neam (aside from being able to SC her gate) is that not only can you benefit from Neam's aggresiveness which helps you get "Parry" damage buff towards you Focal Point spamming, but also that Neam is aggresive enough to mix in a good amount of CA-ing + Amaranth which along with shield enhancement buff does give sword an advantage over hammer, but not really by much since well you can still spin-2-win (not butterfly, but Focal Point spam) with hammer.
TL:DR version of my opinion. Fiona is actually REALLY SP dependent, her trade-off is survivability vs DPS, and Hammer does take a bit more skill to master but not by much cause you can still spin-2-win (not butterfly, but focal point spamming).
Though take this with a grain of salt cause well...I'm a pure sword fiona
Not sure how u get this idea o_o but CA> Everything . Only in some very rare cases that xxx > Delfect > xxx could be better.
If you wanna test it , just do a zecallion run, one use only CA, one use everything except CA, you'd see a tremendous difference in both .
Edit: About Zecallion, well it makes sense CAing is high in DPS when running him because he is really aggresive and gives alot of opportunities to CA him, but I don't ever run Zecallion so I can't really use that to compare.
Maybe I better put it this way.
1.Do any S3 solo twice (except braha) no artifact is allowed
2.Spam only CA on the first run, spam anything but CA on the second run.
I'm just really bad on explaining why, just do this test even once as said above you would get my point.
1. Spammed CA only on the first run: ~30+ min run (no artifact used)
2. Spammed anything but CA (which was mainly focal point spamming): ~14 min run. (no artifact used)
I actually used Heavy Stander Counter for the 1st run as well, with the idea that it is a CA.
The First run I definitely had a constant full bar of SP and rarely ever got hit (mostly from the dumb falling debris). Second run I got hit a lot more, but I was able to do damage in spots I was not able to, like his red form, but my SP gauge was constantly at less than 1 bar. So I mean, just spamming CA got the job done, but it was much slower. Doing this in a party is worse because his focus isn't always on you the whole time.
So maybe I am not understanding your point, but yes CA spamming is a safe way to DPS and gains you a ridiculous amount of SP, but the trade off is a lower overall damage output.
By asking you to do this comparison, time finished on this raid is irrelevant (to my point).
To explain why your second solo is faster : You don't have many CA openings. So in the first run, you ended up with doing nothing for like 80% of the time with non-used exceeded SP. You don't choose from using CA or Deflect, you simply give up the opening to deal more damage.
Why I asked you to try Zecallion in the first place :
My point was CA>Everything(mostly). In Zecallion with its endless aggressive attack you actually have the choice to choose between CA or deflect, while in most other raids, you got a lot of openings to do FP or AK and limited chance to counter. So to be honest, if you only use CA in these raids, it is a waste of the big openings because you cannot counter attack if boss does nothing at all. The comparison would be pointless, if you don't choose between using CA or Delfect, you just simply give up the openings
I will try to explain by 2 small samples. both were Regina x1 HP solo, with the same clean event +9 Arma LS .
In the sample two I started with Shield Enhancement for a better comparison.
Sample 2 Only CA
Time is similar, but you got a exceeded SP gudge in second sample.
To conclude , my point is :
CA > everything (mostly) , but if you could not CA of course you should do some other moves.
1. It is a start of a combo. You could link an AK or PF after CA.
2. It charges up SP guage way faster. It itself is also one of the fastest move in game.
For your Eochaid and Zecallion points, yes Zecallion gives you ample amounts of CA opportunities so I believe you in saying that CA has an edge over other strategies when trying to DPS in zecallion as a Fiona. But in that regard that does not really help your point in saying that CA trumps everything because you can focus on using it mainly in any situation and still come out on top, because, well that just isn't true. Eochaid you can easily spam a lot of CA attacks especially in his purple form, but there is also the option to focal point spam which arguably has more openings to use on Eochaid. At that point, it is harder to argue that "CA > everything (mostly)" because this situation between Eochaid and Zecallion just shows that it is merely situational and tactics that have an advantage in one raid, falls short in others.
If you are saying that CA in comparison to other character's abilities/strategies when it comes to damage/gaining SP/feasibility has an unbalanced advantage, then yes I would definitely agree with you. This has never been more evident after the update that allowed Fiona to non-perfect guard smash attacks, which made the game incredibly easy (boring maybe?) for some Fiona players. I mean a strict adherence to CAing constantly is essentially what allowed me to roll through Ein Lacher quickly compared to other classes (at least people trying to aim for Gold like me).
But to say that CA trumps everything doesn't really explain why most of the time I see high level Fiona players (players that pretty much solo Neam for example) spam focal point like crazy while elegantly mixing in CA+Amaranth, Shield Bash + Amaranth, and Parry buffs.
I do not disagree with your point that CAing is an incredibly easy way to play safe/gain SP/and do a substantial amount of damage, but that is not what makes Fiona broken IMO. What makes Fiona broken isn't that her CAing is too powerful, but that she has incredible suvivability. Take for example Thor's electric charge, in the past it presented characters with problems because in his stimpack mode it followed the character more than on his slower mode. If you had a dodge mechanic that was the main survivability you have to dodge the whole animation to get out of the way of the attack, which leaves less room for attacking. But to a Fiona, the WHOLE animation is considered one hit, as in you can block the initial tap and while he is still running at you dish in DPS in CA's or Amaranths.
Saying that Fiona is broken merely because CAing does a lot of damage and gains a lot of SP, is something I do not agree with because CAing is no longer the main way to achieve high levels of DPS as a Fiona, and while it does have an impressive SP gain, I would argue Twinsword Vella has an equal, if not more impressive SP gain strategy compared to Fiona since she literally has an active skill that gives her a bar of SP at max blade heart, and it has a miniscule CD time so she could essentially have full SP near the beginning of a raid.
TL:DR version: 1) Yes I agree sword Fiona is broken, but that is due to her survivability to damage relation rather than the CA damage that she does and the amount of SP gain she gets from it. 2) Focusing mainly on CAing is not the highest form of DPS for a Sword Fiona, her strategies are more situational now as with many characters.
I agree with this 100%.
CA has been ninja nerfed like 2-3 times already. The damage multiplier you get from SECA is NOT what it used to be.
Also try to do multiple SECA with AMK and see how you lose SP as fast as you can LOL. You will be doubling down a lot because you are already out of STA.
(out of STA = not top dps if that even matters to anyone XD)
I have 210 STA and I have been noticing this as of late.
You have to be more than a 1 dimensional Fiona now rather than mindlessly Spin2Winning or CA2Win. Other than the fact that it's not fun. :P
What's fun is Looking pretty and being "Dat Bish"! when you put down dat boss.
2 cents contributed.
Exacly.. because mostly you just don't have to choose between CA or any other moves..LS Fiona's DPS is limited mainly by how many CA she could make. Zecallion is the only raid that could prove how powerful CA is, because you are actually at the point where you choose which defensive skill to use. All I am trying to say is something like :
1.you are about to close a combo, and the boss is to make another move.
2.you can now 1), roll and start another combo 2), deflect and kick or FP 3),perfect guard and counter.
I am just trying to prove in this situation, 3) is mostly the best way to go. I'm not saying you shouldn't rely any other skills for more DPS potential.
even you could learn this fact in the NA fiona Neamhain solo. He always cover as much CA as possible. He always goes for CA whenever he could.
You could find me a single moment that he chose deflect over CA.
(there are actually some parts that OP used deflect instead of CA, but that was actually he tried to play safe, afraid that he couldn't have enough att speed to close the combo into Guard hence chose deflect. Or the CA would be hard to aim after Guard. Only these 2 situations are exceptions.)
It isn't because he wants to play safe. The simple truth is CA is the most powerful move ever in game, even after the so-called "nerfed"
If you like I could find you even a hundred more speed run attempts to prove that, to maximize the DPS of a LS Fiona, players always tend to cover as much CA as possible. Seriously, any boss except Kraken in this game after Fiona revamp.
and as I posted before, imo Enhanced Counter Attack should consume SP upon using, or at least doesn't charge SP at all. Or simply remove the whole "Shield Enhancement" skill. It is purely broke.
and this is coming from a hammer fiona?
I don't know if anyone else remembers when Spin2Win with Hammer Fiona was a "Thing" then. But yes it was,
Sword Fiona's where getting kicked from boats because of this, because Sword Fiona was deemed too weak.
But Sword Fionas were NOT posting about that and complaining when that was a "Thing".
Just about every Fiona then was a Hammer and they would laugh at you when you main Long Sword.
Those were the times......