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> more of an impression than an actual fact, so make it two instead of three : but I feel like stamina on XE was regenerating faster than on PRE. Just an impression, this might not be an actual fact. I do know PRE has a higher stamina consumption on dodges at least. (XE blink/double blink were 11-16 stamina, while it's 16-21 on PRE)
No idea about attacks, a normal attack was 2 stamina on XE, make it 4 normals for most of classes and it's 8 stamina consummed. I do not remember the consumption on XE smashes tho so.. I will not talk about this point right now. *shrug*
Premiere consuming more stamina is actually a fact. Not sure about the regeneration, but obviously if you burn stamina faster, it'll be harder for the stamina regeneration to keep up.
Anyway, you get the idea. Even with normals, Pre consumes more stamina than XE. Add to that the fact that sprinting halts stamina regeneration and you get a version with horrific stamina issues.
> more of an impression than an actual fact, so make it two instead of three : but I feel like stamina on XE was regenerating faster than on PRE. Just an impression, this might not be an actual fact. I do know PRE has a higher stamina consumption on dodges at least. (XE blink/double blink were 11-16 stamina, while it's 16-21 on PRE)
No idea about attacks, a normal attack was 2 stamina on XE, make it 4 normals for most of classes and it's 8 stamina consummed. I do not remember the consumption on XE smashes tho so.. I will not talk about this point right now. *shrug*
Premiere consuming more stamina is actually a fact. Not sure about the regeneration, but obviously if you burn stamina faster, it'll be harder for the stamina regeneration to keep up.
Anyway, you get the idea. Even with normals, Pre consumes more stamina than XE. Add to that the fact that sprinting halts stamina regeneration and you get a version with horrific stamina issues.
And this is exactly the reason why it is much harder to play well on Premium. Stamina management is way harder than a lot of people think, and in order to be really good on premium and consistently solo end game raid bosses you need to be really disciplined and know when to use what.
Spam makes things a bit too easy and covers up a lot of mistakes.
And this is exactly the reason why it is much harder to play well on Premium. Stamina management is way harder than a lot of people think, and in order to be really good on premium and consistently solo end game raid bosses you need to be really disciplined and know when to use what.
Spam makes things a bit too easy and covers up a lot of mistakes.
Stop trying to make Pre happen. Not going to work, you're just reaching.
Search for premiere solos on YouTube and you'll see the sheer amount of Stamina Pot abuse. Premiere doesn't want you to "manage your stamina", it wants you to buy stamina pots, merc pots+ (the ones that give stamina buff), bath soaps (30 more stamina), gear abilities, Passion and Berserker enchant scrolls. Stamina is just another stat and same as with other stats - you can buy it.
You can buy stamina, and you can buy stamina regeneration, but you can't buy combo bonus.
Why you complaining about stamina then? Isn't it because it's no longer as easy as it used to be in XE that requires absolutely 0 thought put in as you basically never run out of stamina? And no stamina pot comes no where nearly as OP as the XE stamina bar. You will still run out of stamina very quickly if you go recklessly and you will still need to find ways to manage your green bar.
Sometimes I know people want their ezmode ezgame back, but the game is already easy enough as it is and some sort of challenge can be highly appreciated. This game is not meant to be spamming dodge/attacks non-stop.It's all about calculated dodge and moves that require precision timings, and this to me is where the fun is.
Regardless, if you have +15 lv90s/65+ att speed and 150 crit and can kill any raid boss by yourself in 5 minutes, then none of these apply.
EDIT: Another thing is, these solo videos are people trying to speed things up in certain parts to have better clear time. Usually they are already good players and can do these runs without any pots involved, so they are not using stamina pot as a way of compensating for their skill levels.
Premiere harder than XE, what kind of bullsh*t is that again ? I don't even have that much of a difference between PRE/XE except I have to use Horrific Scream more often than I did on XE.
lol
A slightly faster stamina regeneration wouldn't kill this version in my opinion. I'm fine with the stamina consumption. (except Lann maybe, no idea)
I didn't think I actually need to list all these out:
- 150% dmg
- Basically unlimited stamina
- Boss hp shown all the time
- Attack animation slightly faster
- always running -> movement advantage
It's kinda hard to argue against XE being the easier version. The 150% dmg with unlimited stamina is basically game breaking in the right hands of players.
I didn't think I actually need to list all these out:
- 150% dmg
- Basically unlimited stamina
- Boss hp shown all the time
- Attack animation slightly faster
- always running -> movement advantage
It's kinda hard to argue against XE being the easier version. The 150% dmg with unlimited stamina is basically game breaking in the right hands of players.
- Except you conveniently left out the fact that YOU HAVE TO DODGE to get the 150% damage. Dodge as in = knowing how to play and calculate moves. How is that "easier" than Premiere in which facetanking with super-armor, stacking stats and chugging pots are the best strategies? You think playing well and dodging is easier than letting the stats play for you? Than why did the developers introduce Einlach as a "challenge" mode? Einlach and XE are literally the same concept: "Get X for not getting hit". In Einlach you get a gold medal for not getting hit and in XE you get 50% damage boost for not getting hit. You literally have the developers themselves admitting that XE's concept is more challenging by its design.
- XE doesn't have unlimited stamina.
- HP bars only matter for certain bosses when you're doing break-offs. Also you can choose to hide the bars in XE. How is this even an argument?
- This is just a theory and not confirmed or tested. And even if it did turn out to be true, it's only two classes.
- In Premiere you can abuse the sprint button to run faster than normal by spamming it -> movement advantage.
Raw skill = XE
Stats = Premiere
If you want to argue that getting stats is harder than playing better, than you'd be right, Premiere is more challenging in a sense that it's more stat demanding. But at the end of the day, you can buy stats (that includes "stamina management"), but you can't buy gold medals in Einlach and you can't buy combo bonus.
- Except you conveniently left out the fact that YOU HAVE TO DODGE to get the 150% damage. Dodge as in = knowing how to play and calculate moves. How is that "easier" than Premiere in which facetanking with super-armor, stacking stats and chugging pots are the best strategies? You think playing well and dodging is easier than letting the stats play for you? Than why did the developers introduce Einlach as a "challenge" mode? Einlach and XE are literally the same concept: "Get X for not getting hit". In Einlach you get a gold medal for not getting hit and in XE you get 50% damage boost for not getting hit. You literally have the developers themselves admitting that XE's concept is more challenging by its design.
- XE doesn't have unlimited stamina.
- HP bars only matter for certain bosses when you're doing break-offs. Also you can choose to hide the bars in XE. How is this even an argument?
- This is just a theory and not confirmed or tested. And even if it did turn out to be true, it's only two classes.
- In Premiere you can abuse the sprint button to run faster than normal by spamming it -> movement advantage.
Raw skill = XE
Stats = Premiere
If you want to argue that getting stats is harder than playing better, than you'd be right, Premiere is more challenging in a sense that it's more stat demanding. But at the end of the day, you can buy stats (that includes "stamina management"), but you can't buy gold medals in Einlach and you can't buy combo bonus.
So at the end of the day, you're just saying nobody who plays on Premiere can possibly be good and only XE players are the skilled gods.
You get 150% by not getting hit. Only argument I have against this is how low the combo requirement was, which back in EU forums, I proposed multiple times to actually raise it so not everyone can easily access the damage bonus.
Free 'damage pot' for 24 combo, that is for most of classes, some like Arisha/Lann was 36 + and hell, even Hammer was less than 20 combo for 150% iirc.
Oh and this "free damage pot" doesn't even affects all attacks, while you see KR solos abusing damage pot which affects every single one of your attacks.
Nowhere it has been said by me that XE was harder, you just make it sounds like PRE is 'challenging' when I feel no difference at all in the gameplay. A faster stamina regeneration by walking makes perfect sense to me, going in sprint would still lock it as well. May you read what I say again, if anything.
So at the end of the day, you're just saying nobody who plays on Premiere can possibly be good and only XE players are the skilled gods.
Where did I say anything about Premiere players? Not sure if a bad straw man or just insecure. I was talking about the structures of the versions. XE has a structure that is similar to Einlach whereas the structure of Premiere incentivizes stats over skills. And that's ok because stats = $$$$, which is exactly what Nexon and DevCat would want as a business.
Premiere is more profitable as a business model (for example the stat Damage Reflect is useless in XE while in Premiere it goes hand in hand with facetanking). But more challenging? Nope. Let's be real - the developers favored Premiere because $$$$ talks. What kind of a greedy businesses would want to give players free damage boost for playing well when you can charge them for it through the gear progression system.
Well what I was trying to say is XE was more entertaining, people had more fun playing if it was casual player casher or elitist. Everything became gear gear gear gear now. For EU players that don't have much of players it became quite bad (for new players). Let's say what if people that got gear only did private boats letting gearing people to fight the bosses alone. So geared people would done the raid super fast while those who realy need that gear would have done it really slow (and with vindi droprate running the same boss 50 [100-200] times to get a rare for example large shield). So geared people would only get richer and ungeared get nothing (they can't sell the rares because it's full market of them from geared people). And that what pre is doing.
So most of my +11 friends that was playing the game longer then me left and they were skilled enough to solo any s2,s3 or nifl content (and only with +11 but not only +11 almost none of them stayed T_T). They knew that getting weapon with more enhancement is almost impossible for them (even those who pay for gear realized that it would cost them too much).
Combo system was really fun because if you played good your clearing time was short and there were times when +10 outdmged +15 (same class) so it encouraged people to want to play better (they knew that they don't need +15 to be able to do some dmg).
It's kinda hard to argue against XE being the easier version. The 150% dmg with unlimited stamina is basically game breaking in the right hands of players.
Oh, pre is too easy let's make bosses hp double or even triple. Oh still not enough those +15 can clear it in 5 mins what about we lower their weapon dmg to half Result: Average raid time for fully equipped people about 30 mins. Would you like that? In my case I'm in autopilot mode after 6 minutes and starting to fall asleep (as example royal raid).
I think if we really need to compare, we need to take random factors like gears/buffs out of question since everyone's gears will be different. Otherwise it is pointless to compare between 2 versions.
Therefore, given everything to be the same (Lann vs. Lann comparison, relatively equal gears, similar buffs used), premiere will be more difficult to play for certain. You will not have as much stamina to cover up for mistakes and you will not have any dmg boost on combo (solos therefore will take longer). As a direct result, you will need higher skill levels to make up the differences.
I can buff2win and make me never run out of stamina. I don't need to do this on XE to achieve the same kind of stamina usage, and IF I do that on XE I'd just be laughing my way of stomping the boss to death. Regardless of what I do here on Premium, if I do the same thing on XE it will always be easier.
It's kinda hard to argue against XE being the easier version. The 150% dmg with unlimited stamina is basically game breaking in the right hands of players.
Oh, pre is too easy let's make bosses hp double or even triple. Oh still not enough those +15 can clear it in 5 mins what about we lower their weapon dmg to half Result: Average raid time for fully equipped people about 30 mins. Would you like that? In my case I'm in autopilot mode after 6 minutes and starting to fall asleep (as example royal raid).
Sounds like a personal problem to me here. Perhaps premiere is just not for some of you I'd imagine.
Regardless of what I do here on Premium, if I do the same thing on XE it will always be easier.
That's not the point. If you played XE like pre: others would have shorter clear times which results in more runs per day = more gold so you would be left behind. Also XE version had different def scaling (yohaad would kill me in 4 hits back then and I'm not talking about redhits, I can facetank him quite long without any buf now with no change of gear) and einlacher worked different (could clear many bosses which I couldn't kill in XE after merge)
if shorter clear times means easier for you then maybe yes XE is easier but I played XE before but can't really say pre is more difficult, I'm saying pre is lacking something it's more boring and less challenging (I'm not saying pre players are nabs, I think there are many players better then me in both XE and pre version). Also this version is more unfriendly to new players.
- Except you conveniently left out the fact that YOU HAVE TO DODGE to get the 150% damage. Dodge as in = knowing how to play and calculate moves. How is that "easier" than Premiere in which facetanking with super-armor, stacking stats and chugging pots are the best strategies? You think playing well and dodging is easier than letting the stats play for you? Than why did the developers introduce Einlach as a "challenge" mode? Einlach and XE are literally the same concept: "Get X for not getting hit". In Einlach you get a gold medal for not getting hit and in XE you get 50% damage boost for not getting hit. You literally have the developers themselves admitting that XE's concept is more challenging by its design.
- XE doesn't have unlimited stamina.
- HP bars only matter for certain bosses when you're doing break-offs. Also you can choose to hide the bars in XE. How is this even an argument?
- This is just a theory and not confirmed or tested. And even if it did turn out to be true, it's only two classes.
- In Premiere you can abuse the sprint button to run faster than normal by spamming it -> movement advantage.
- Shorter battle = less chance you make mistakes. In Pre it only takes like 5 mins per raid while ppl spamming their lockdown skill and you barely have to dodge anything, imagine how much easier it is in a 3 minutes raid? Pls stop claiming XE you have to play good in every raids, thats only applies to solo, and you have to play good in solo no matter which version you play. The fact that you mention Einlacher is also supporting this point. And, try facetanking neamhain or eochaids if you think that "super armor" is your life saver.
- XE doesn't have unlimited sta, true, but it also has less sta consumption so you don't even need a sta pot, and again stop claiming like only Pre players use pots.
Yes i do agree with the part that Pre requires better gear for better dps, but a +12 still can out damage a +15 if they have skills and don't have to rely on combo system. Besides, it encourages ppl to progress their gear further. Let alone the irritating of enhancement system, its another story.
why did nexon/devcat get rid of XE in all regions?
cause they're the game designer and they do whatever the fact they want with their game. That and they're tired of developing 2 different versions of the same game.
Comments
Now if we can just get that update where they bring hp bars to everything like on KR right now......
Premiere consuming more stamina is actually a fact. Not sure about the regeneration, but obviously if you burn stamina faster, it'll be harder for the stamina regeneration to keep up.
Here are Lann multipliers for example
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zhxE5NkODE4/U7-NSpCM2PI/AAAAAAAAEW4/gv8eNT6l_qw/s0/1+Lann_2+TwinSwords_20140711_ENG.png
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xFmw7m5sYFQ/U7-R9SYglQI/AAAAAAAAEXY/3eeTRAOOAzw/s0/1+Lann_3+TwinSpears_20140709_ENG.png
You can see that even when you add up the stamina from normals it's still less than Premiere.
Twin Swords:
1st smash: Pre: 12, XE: 5
2nd smash: Pre 14, XE: 9
3rd smash: Pre 18, XE: 10
Spear Lann:
Grand Hurricane: 18 per spin in Pre vs 6 per spin for XE.
Lynn multipliers: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XzfKjn111Ts/U7KIBH2X6MI/AAAAAAAAEOA/AcKMRTmxoY4/s0/8+Lynn_1+Glaive_20140630_ENG.png
Same thing.
Hurk multipliers: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qDjKHh2sM8s/U5tfUVKbSoI/AAAAAAAAD2c/S7bOO5OyhUQ/s0/7+Hurk_1+Greatsword_20140601_ENG.png
Same thing. (not like stamina matters to Hurk, but still)
Anyway, you get the idea. Even with normals, Pre consumes more stamina than XE. Add to that the fact that sprinting halts stamina regeneration and you get a version with horrific stamina issues.
And this is exactly the reason why it is much harder to play well on Premium. Stamina management is way harder than a lot of people think, and in order to be really good on premium and consistently solo end game raid bosses you need to be really disciplined and know when to use what.
Spam makes things a bit too easy and covers up a lot of mistakes.
Stop trying to make Pre happen. Not going to work, you're just reaching.
Search for premiere solos on YouTube and you'll see the sheer amount of Stamina Pot abuse. Premiere doesn't want you to "manage your stamina", it wants you to buy stamina pots, merc pots+ (the ones that give stamina buff), bath soaps (30 more stamina), gear abilities, Passion and Berserker enchant scrolls. Stamina is just another stat and same as with other stats - you can buy it.
You can buy stamina, and you can buy stamina regeneration, but you can't buy combo bonus.
Sometimes I know people want their ezmode ezgame back, but the game is already easy enough as it is and some sort of challenge can be highly appreciated. This game is not meant to be spamming dodge/attacks non-stop. It's all about calculated dodge and moves that require precision timings, and this to me is where the fun is.
Regardless, if you have +15 lv90s/65+ att speed and 150 crit and can kill any raid boss by yourself in 5 minutes, then none of these apply.
EDIT: Another thing is, these solo videos are people trying to speed things up in certain parts to have better clear time. Usually they are already good players and can do these runs without any pots involved, so they are not using stamina pot as a way of compensating for their skill levels.
It already happened tho?
lol
A slightly faster stamina regeneration wouldn't kill this version in my opinion. I'm fine with the stamina consumption. (except Lann maybe, no idea)
- 150% dmg
- Basically unlimited stamina
- Boss hp shown all the time
- Attack animation slightly faster
- always running -> movement advantage
It's kinda hard to argue against XE being the easier version. The 150% dmg with unlimited stamina is basically game breaking in the right hands of players.
- Except you conveniently left out the fact that YOU HAVE TO DODGE to get the 150% damage. Dodge as in = knowing how to play and calculate moves. How is that "easier" than Premiere in which facetanking with super-armor, stacking stats and chugging pots are the best strategies? You think playing well and dodging is easier than letting the stats play for you? Than why did the developers introduce Einlach as a "challenge" mode? Einlach and XE are literally the same concept: "Get X for not getting hit". In Einlach you get a gold medal for not getting hit and in XE you get 50% damage boost for not getting hit. You literally have the developers themselves admitting that XE's concept is more challenging by its design.
- XE doesn't have unlimited stamina.
- HP bars only matter for certain bosses when you're doing break-offs. Also you can choose to hide the bars in XE. How is this even an argument?
- This is just a theory and not confirmed or tested. And even if it did turn out to be true, it's only two classes.
- In Premiere you can abuse the sprint button to run faster than normal by spamming it -> movement advantage.
Raw skill = XE
Stats = Premiere
If you want to argue that getting stats is harder than playing better, than you'd be right, Premiere is more challenging in a sense that it's more stat demanding. But at the end of the day, you can buy stats (that includes "stamina management"), but you can't buy gold medals in Einlach and you can't buy combo bonus.
So at the end of the day, you're just saying nobody who plays on Premiere can possibly be good and only XE players are the skilled gods.
Free 'damage pot' for 24 combo, that is for most of classes, some like Arisha/Lann was 36 + and hell, even Hammer was less than 20 combo for 150% iirc.
Oh and this "free damage pot" doesn't even affects all attacks, while you see KR solos abusing damage pot which affects every single one of your attacks.
Nowhere it has been said by me that XE was harder, you just make it sounds like PRE is 'challenging' when I feel no difference at all in the gameplay. A faster stamina regeneration by walking makes perfect sense to me, going in sprint would still lock it as well. May you read what I say again, if anything.
Nothing gamebreaking here.
Where did I say anything about Premiere players? Not sure if a bad straw man or just insecure. I was talking about the structures of the versions. XE has a structure that is similar to Einlach whereas the structure of Premiere incentivizes stats over skills. And that's ok because stats = $$$$, which is exactly what Nexon and DevCat would want as a business.
Premiere is more profitable as a business model (for example the stat Damage Reflect is useless in XE while in Premiere it goes hand in hand with facetanking). But more challenging? Nope. Let's be real - the developers favored Premiere because $$$$ talks. What kind of a greedy businesses would want to give players free damage boost for playing well when you can charge them for it through the gear progression system.
So most of my +11 friends that was playing the game longer then me left and they were skilled enough to solo any s2,s3 or nifl content (and only with +11 but not only +11 almost none of them stayed T_T). They knew that getting weapon with more enhancement is almost impossible for them (even those who pay for gear realized that it would cost them too much).
Combo system was really fun because if you played good your clearing time was short and there were times when +10 outdmged +15 (same class) so it encouraged people to want to play better (they knew that they don't need +15 to be able to do some dmg).
Oh, pre is too easy let's make bosses hp double or even triple. Oh still not enough those +15 can clear it in 5 mins what about we lower their weapon dmg to half Result: Average raid time for fully equipped people about 30 mins. Would you like that? In my case I'm in autopilot mode after 6 minutes and starting to fall asleep (as example royal raid).
Therefore, given everything to be the same (Lann vs. Lann comparison, relatively equal gears, similar buffs used), premiere will be more difficult to play for certain. You will not have as much stamina to cover up for mistakes and you will not have any dmg boost on combo (solos therefore will take longer). As a direct result, you will need higher skill levels to make up the differences.
I can buff2win and make me never run out of stamina. I don't need to do this on XE to achieve the same kind of stamina usage, and IF I do that on XE I'd just be laughing my way of stomping the boss to death. Regardless of what I do here on Premium, if I do the same thing on XE it will always be easier.
Sounds like a personal problem to me here. Perhaps premiere is just not for some of you I'd imagine.
if shorter clear times means easier for you then maybe yes XE is easier but I played XE before but can't really say pre is more difficult, I'm saying pre is lacking something it's more boring and less challenging (I'm not saying pre players are nabs, I think there are many players better then me in both XE and pre version). Also this version is more unfriendly to new players.
- Shorter battle = less chance you make mistakes. In Pre it only takes like 5 mins per raid while ppl spamming their lockdown skill and you barely have to dodge anything, imagine how much easier it is in a 3 minutes raid? Pls stop claiming XE you have to play good in every raids, thats only applies to solo, and you have to play good in solo no matter which version you play. The fact that you mention Einlacher is also supporting this point. And, try facetanking neamhain or eochaids if you think that "super armor" is your life saver.
- XE doesn't have unlimited sta, true, but it also has less sta consumption so you don't even need a sta pot, and again stop claiming like only Pre players use pots.
Yes i do agree with the part that Pre requires better gear for better dps, but a +12 still can out damage a +15 if they have skills and don't have to rely on combo system. Besides, it encourages ppl to progress their gear further. Let alone the irritating of enhancement system, its another story.
cause they're the game designer and they do whatever the fact they want with their game. That and they're tired of developing 2 different versions of the same game.