[NEW MERCENARIES] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
@Question2 You've had a bad experience, I've had a good experience, I was merely stating I would be open to the fact that they're thinking about vindi being open world, it's better then going through all these dungeons with the same rehashed maps for your quests honestly. Powerleveling multiple chars in vindi is boring because of that. Anyways since we've obviously had different experiences with open world MMO's lets leave it at that.
@Sekaiiz Never said anything about nexon hosting missions, just said raids would be the only things that wouldn't be open world because people like to do raid trains and such a lot. Just my 2 cents.
lol... "killing things 24\7". This is literally the crux of hack-n-slash games. Vindi's selling point is its combat system, and combat is usually accompanied by "killing things 24\7". Not to mention Vindi already has daily missions, missions boards, rankings, no-life titles, fishing, browser-tier mini games and various other gimmicks. Most players ignore all that because guess what... They play Vindi to "kill things 24\7", as that's what Vindi is about (as any other hack-n-slash).
It's like going to a vegan store and be like "It's a nice store but I wish they sold more than just vegan stuff". It's a vegan store. It sells vegan stuff. It's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. If you want non-vegan stuff, don't go into a vegan store. Why would you walk into a vegan store and ask for non-vegan stuff, that's just so illogical.
Vindi is hack-n-slash. Hacking and slashing things 24\7 is exactly what it's supposed to offer. lol
I know this is off-topic but I was just flabbergasted by this "this hack-n-slash game is too hack-n-slashy" comment.
Did I say it's too hack-n-slashy? I said that it would be nice if the game had more depth. If BDO actually had valuable PvE content it would destroy Vindi in terms of giving players a reason to stay in game when they aren't grinding non-stop. There's a reason that games like GW2, WoW, SWTOR, TERA, BnS, and other constantly beat Vindi in popularity and that is because there are things to do outside of combat. I'm not sure why you think that seeing every point of view at the extreme is a PoV that elevates a conversation, but it isn't.
Kingdom Under Fire 2 is still coming, Bless is coming with its combat revamp, and there are plenty of other things on the horizon. I'm simply saying that if they're really looking at revamping Vindi to have more content it would be great. Yes, I get that you think Vindi has no need to do anything to stay relevant in days to come, but I think it does, just like others do. We play the game, we put time and money into it, and our opinions are just as valid. In the future we'll just agree to disagree any you don't need to respond to my posts about how I think the game should change and I won't respond to yours about how stagnation is life.
KuF2 is one of the best example while you can have hack and slash mmo with deeper in gameplay (with some RTS), and infact, it relies on strategy more than the hack and slash part to complete hard dungeon. It's also has some parts considered open-world for quests (some quests you dont need to go to dungeons, just kill mobs outside the towns). Only bad side of that game is p2w for troops from gachapon, and bad ported pc version, hope it will be fixed in NA version.
Vindi can take it as a reference.
>revamp engine
>dont revamp brynn/ferghus when they are the #1 cause of people quitting to play other games like BDO
Derpcat at its finest. Its like watching politicians drive the economy into the ground because they only want to milk the benefits for their term of office and leave a pile of crap for everyone else to clean up later.
Dude, you're like, so politically knowledgeable. I bet you've got all the answers. /s
If you're really that butthurt about Brynn and Ferghus, it's likely your own fault tbh. Nexon NA has given tons of free stuff to help with the RNG.
Open world is great when it gives players new areas to explore and things to try.
To a certain extent, yes. When i played warhammer online, it was great stumbling on some landmark in the middle of nowhere that added an entry to your codex. In practice, when you hit the level cap, you almost never did this because there was no reason to actually go out looking for stuff in the middle of nowhere. End game was all about realm vs realm PVP and raids in instanced dungeons.
The novelty of exploring wore off very quickly especially since to explroe meant you had to deal with tons of canon fodder trash mobs and the combat in that game was tab targetting, so pretty annoying to kill them if you didnt have good AOE skills.
t would be great if this game had more to do than just kill things 24/7. Daily missions and titles that could be achieved outside of room-to-room dungeons would be perfection.
Heres the problem : Most people dont actually want that. I mean sure, a lot of people say they do. Look at all the non-combat stuff in the game now. How popular are they?
Look at BDO. Sure people say theres tons of stuff to do in it. What that really means is that people just afk while doing non-combat stuff.
From talking with a lot of people, it seems that people arent really getting bored of killing the same bosses, what they are getting bored of is the lack of easy progression. It takes a lot of s3 dailies to get enough mats to upgrade your stats via material synthesis (not to mention the gold), so most people dont bother. It takes a lot of raids to get a scroll to drop, so most people dont bother. If progression was easier, people would be constantly progressing instead of getting bored.
I have a friend who quit for FF14 precisely because enchants are RNG and he prefers FF14's system where you just do end game raids to get gear via a system similar to the seal shop and thats it. No RNG enchants or enhancing. Its guaranteed progression. He doesnt want to risk destroying OJ gear or losing scrolls at all.
Gear at the highest level is still destroyed on failure, and the pain of even trying to get to that point is still over-the-top. It really isn't greener pastures, it's just that the pain comes later.
BDO's developer is smarter it seems. See, by putting the RNG part at the end...they are getting a lot of people to stay in the meantime. And when people do reach end game, they feel they have spent too much time/money/whatever on the game and so stay "locked in" AKA the sunk cost fallacy. And theres way more people who are still climbing their way to the end game so the game doesnt feel dead, whereas vindi is mostly populated by level 90s for a reason.
@Question2 You've had a bad experience, I've had a good experience, I was merely stating I would be open to the fact that they're thinking about vindi being open world, it's better then going through all these dungeons with the same rehashed maps for your quests honestly. Powerleveling multiple chars in vindi is boring because of that. Anyways since we've obviously had different experiences with open world MMO's lets leave it at that.
@Sekaiiz Never said anything about nexon hosting missions, just said raids would be the only things that wouldn't be open world because people like to do raid trains and such a lot. Just my 2 cents.
Its really not better. Sure, the environment may look different, but you are still going through the same boring maps killing the same boring mobs. Except you get all the disadvantages of open world like trolls, pkers, killstealers, etc.
In Vindi, I know that I just need to fight my way through a dungeon, kill the boss, and im done with that place. In open world I would have to farm 100+ mobs in some field, which might take hours.
>revamp engine
>dont revamp brynn/ferghus when they are the #1 cause of people quitting to play other games like BDO
Derpcat at its finest. Its like watching politicians drive the economy into the ground because they only want to milk the benefits for their term of office and leave a pile of crap for everyone else to clean up later.
Dude, you're like, so politically knowledgeable. I bet you've got all the answers. /s
If you're really that butthurt about Brynn and Ferghus, it's likely your own fault tbh. Nexon NA has given tons of free stuff to help with the RNG.
The countless people who have quit because of Brynn/Ferghus disagree with you.
The countless people who have quit because of Brynn/Ferghus disagree with you.
Once again, if someone quit because of Ferghus/Brynn, they didn't actually quit because of them, they quit because they have an unhealthy addiction to the game and got too invested.
All you can do is thank them for their hefty contributions to the game and laugh at them when they're gone. ;^)
Alright let me explain myself from earlier. Every single time the game has been made easier (think when 90 mats hit the seal shop and boss needs) the game population has fallen rapidly. Why? No reason to gear up anymore now that you have obtained end game gear easily = nothing sells too = no longer a point to play the game with no end game goals. Also a huge chunk of Vindictus's income comes directly from enhancement and enchantment runes so Nexon will be less inclined to keep the game up. BDO is a completely different game that focuses a lot more on PVP than it does PVE and attracts completely different audiences who aren't exactly looking for hard PVE content but are more looking for exploration / guild wars and massive sandbags with an insane amount of HP called world bosses. Final point is that making enhancing and enchanting easy to obtain will piss off a lot of the old players of this game whom at this point make up most of the population, so you'll probably see a lot of them quite too.
The countless people who have quit because of Brynn/Ferghus disagree with you.
Once again, if someone quit because of Ferghus/Brynn, they didn't actually quit because of them, they quit because they have an unhealthy addiction to the game and got too invested.
All you can do is thank them for their hefty contributions to the game and laugh at them when they're gone. ;^)
Not really. Some players spend some money on runes without knowing the failure rates are so bad, or simply saying they'll give it a go, then see it as a bad investment and peace out. Some players do it and simply don't see it as getting their money's worth and leave. There are lots of other scenarios where people experience the enhance/enchant system and get tired/frustrated and quit without ever having an unhealthy addiction. Your tendency to see only extremes doesn't make your arguments valid.
The countless people who have quit because of Brynn/Ferghus disagree with you.
Once again, if someone quit because of Ferghus/Brynn, they didn't actually quit because of them, they quit because they have an unhealthy addiction to the game and got too invested.
All you can do is thank them for their hefty contributions to the game and laugh at them when they're gone. ;^)
no? lol.
I "quit" because of those characters and that does not describe me whatsoever. I think the gearing system in Vindi is absurdly bad. And don't even about the "free" stuff we get, tell me straight up with my 6-7 or w/e free enhance runes that I can compete with someone who buys 100 of them. Nah dude, it doesn't work like that.
The fact that an endgame scroll is nearly just as likely to blow up your weapon/armor as it is to succeed UNLESS you use a cash shop item on it should be proof enough.
Not really. Some players spend some money on runes without knowing the failure rates are so bad, or simply saying they'll give it a go, then see it as a bad investment and peace out. Some players do it and simply don't see it as getting their money's worth and leave. There are lots of other scenarios where people experience the enhance/enchant system and get tired/frustrated and quit without ever having an unhealthy addiction. Your tendency to see only extremes doesn't make your arguments valid.
It's not like this game is the first ever to have an RNG enhance system, so pretending like people are leaving because they bought a rune and it failed is a thoughtless argument.
I "quit" because of those characters and that does not describe me whatsoever. I think the gearing system in Vindi is absurdly bad. And don't even about the "free" stuff we get, tell me straight up with my 6-7 or w/e free enhance runes that I can compete with someone who buys 100 of them. Nah dude, it doesn't work like that.
If you want to "compete" with people, you should expect to spend money and get burned, it's the nature of any P2W game tbh.
I'm looking at this from a casual perspective, people who get worked up over a free game's rng system are clearly investing themselves too much into the game.
Alright let me explain myself from earlier. Every single time the game has been made easier (think when 90 mats hit the seal shop and boss needs) the game population has fallen rapidly. Why? No reason to gear up anymore now that you have obtained end game gear easily = nothing sells too = no longer a point to play the game with no end game goals. Also a huge chunk of Vindictus's income comes directly from enhancement and enchantment runes so Nexon will be less inclined to keep the game up. BDO is a completely different game that focuses a lot more on PVP than it does PVE and attracts completely different audiences who aren't exactly looking for hard PVE content but are more looking for exploration / guild wars and massive sandbags with an insane amount of HP called world bosses. Final point is that making enhancing and enchanting easy to obtain will piss off a lot of the old players of this game whom at this point make up most of the population, so you'll probably see a lot of them quite too.
Funny, because when roch/drags was end game, the game population was far higher than it is now even though level 60 gear was easy to obtain and roch/drags werent hard.
The game pop took a nose dive when s2 was released. Why? s2 was too hard, drag mats werent in seal shop yet, and most people got their level 80 gear by buying boxes. As people kept doing s2 raids and getting burnt out, more and more quit because "why bother, i wont get drops anyway". When level 80 mats were put into the seal shop, I was actually able to convince some of them to come back because they could use seals to progress their gear.
Everytime the game has gotten easier by improving the seal shop, the game pop has actually risen because people tried coming back. Everytime the game has gotten harder, people have responded by giving up and playing other games instead.
Look at all the relatively hard parts of the game. Neam obviously comes to mind. When Neam came out, I predicted that most people would give up and stop trying after a month or so. Turns out I was right. When Neam first came out, I saw several Neam practice parties evey single day. After a month, that dropped to zero. And the number of parties that actually do successful runs now is 1, and they usually dont even have a full party. (Figures for your server will differ obviously).
Why? I asked around and the responses that I got were basically "too hard" "ceebs" "cant attack cap so ceebs" "stats not high enough" "rather play bdo" "rather play warframe" "rather play TERA" etc. Plenty of people with +14s, +15s just gave up and stopped trying.
Look at the revamped royal raids. They used to be super easy, and people sometimes did them for titles/easy seals whenever people megaphoned for it. Now, people dont touch them because the bosses have insanely high HP and it takes 20+ minutes to kill for terrible rewards, and thats with at least 6 very well geared players carrying. And thats assuming the servers dont turn into a slideshow. If the servers do turn into a slide show, enjoy your 30+ minutes of boredom.
There are still people in full level 90 OJ enchanted gear who refuse to touch Nifleheim because "too hard" or "ceebs". That should tell you all you need to know about how much the population likes difficult things. I have seen people with +15 level 90s refuse to do s3 dailies because "it is too hard". That says a lot.
For every hardcore player who wants something to be difficult, there are probably at least 10 who wants it easier. How many people have you seen quit the game because "this is too hard" vs "this too easy"? Pretty much every veteran has lost count of the number of people who have quit because they couldnt progress in gear, couldnt get drops, couldnt even get to +8 after using 10 runes, etc, etc. I can only remember two guys who quit because they complained it was too easy...ironically they are now playing again, and aren't enjoying Neam.
Oh sure you hear about people quitting because they got good gear and feel they have nothing else to aim for. What they dont tell you is that they still can improve their gear, but cant be bothered to do so. Most of those are attack capped for s3, but arent stat capped, and dont want to try. Why? "Ceebs". Sure they can use material synthesis to stat cap...but again..."ceebs". When it takes more than a week's worth of s3 dailies to get enough mats for one major stat increase, most people simply cannot be bothered.
I find myself repeating the same conversation everytime a new piece of gear is released. When Eoch earrings came out, I had people tell me they didnt want to play because they had good gear and felt there was nothning left to do, even though they didnt have the new earrings. When I asked them why they didnt want to get the new earrings, they just said "ceebs" "i wont get the rare drop anyway" "too hard". Same thing happened with the level 85 belt. Its not that they have nothing left to do, its that they have nothing EASY left to do.
They could run Eochaid/Abomination to get the essence...but because its REALLY rare....they cant be bothered. Where are they now? Playing other games. When/If we get eoch/abo essences in the seal shop, they will probably come back to make it with seals. But they wont touch the raids because they cant be bothered to do them, and in the meantime they wont play the game because they ran out of easy stuff to do.
If you want to "compete" with people, you should expect to spend money and get burned, it's the nature of any P2W game tbh.
I'm looking at this from a casual perspective, people who get worked up over a free game's rng system are clearly investing themselves too much into the game.
People in this very thread have told you that they weren't tricked out of their money or addicted to the game, they just don't like the system. Your hyperbole is still pointless and your argument is empty and not based in reality.
People in this very thread have told you that they weren't tricked out of their money or addicted to the game, they just don't like the system. Your hyperbole is still pointless and your argument is empty and not based in reality.
Keep telling yourself that, fam. Just because a few people in a thread say something, doesn't mean it's actually the truth.
Besides, if Ferghus and Brynn were really that much of an issue., the game would have died a long time ago, so it's pointless to whine about it, unless you're just really salty about your own bad luck. If you're really interested in the longevity of the game, you should be pushing for more content, not easier systems that give players a reason to quit the game faster.
People in this very thread have told you that they weren't tricked out of their money or addicted to the game, they just don't like the system. Your hyperbole is still pointless and your argument is empty and not based in reality.
Keep telling yourself that, fam. Just because a few people in a thread say something, doesn't mean it's actually the truth.
Besides, if Ferghus and Brynn were really that much of an issue., the game would have died a long time ago, so it's pointless to whine about it, unless you're just really salty about your own bad luck. If you're really interested in the longevity of the game, you should be pushing for more content, not easier systems that give players a reason to quit the game faster.
except I literally just stated why I "quit", and it was not for the reasons you stated...
can't you realize that ferghus and brynn ARE an issue for some players? clearly not all as some choose to remain, but they are an issue for some players such as myself. "the game would have died long ago" is reliant on EVERYONE disliking brynn and ferghus when in reality most of the people who continue to play Vindi only put up with it.
except I literally just stated why I "quit", and it was not for the reasons you stated...
can't you realize that ferghus and brynn ARE an issue for some players? clearly not all as some choose to remain, but they are an issue for some players such as myself. "the game would have died long ago" is reliant on EVERYONE disliking brynn and ferghus when in reality most of the people who continue to play Vindi only put up with it.
They can be frustrating if you're dumping money into them, or if you've got the mentality that you have to compete with those who either do dump money or are lucky, but they're hardly the biggest issue the game has. Lack of engaging content between updates is really what drives people from this game.
For real though, if this is the issue you most want to cry about, free to play games probably aren't for you.
Funny, because when roch/drags was end game, the game population was far higher than it is now even though level 60 gear was easy to obtain and roch/drags werent hard.
Titan, Thor, Ingkells and Glas were all quite challenging for the gear, multipliers, and invincibility frames we had at the time.
Dragons and Keaghan as well when they first came out, though, it wasn't too long after that things started getting more easy mode, higher multipliers and doubled HP pools for everyone!
The game pop took a nose dive when s2 was released. Why? s2 was too hard, drag mats werent in seal shop yet, and most people got their level 80 gear by buying boxes. As people kept doing s2 raids and getting burnt out, more and more quit because "why bother, i wont get drops anyway". When level 80 mats were put into the seal shop, I was actually able to convince some of them to come back because they could use seals to progress their gear.
Not really, the game's pop was at a huge low point right before season 2 due to how long it took to get season 2. People gradually trickled back. It didn't help that Kraken and Lakoria were some of the crappiest raids to date. I agree with the guy who said that content droughts are the cancer that eats away at Vindictus's population (paraphrased).
Everytime the game has gotten easier by improving the seal shop, the game pop has actually risen because people tried coming back. Everytime the game has gotten harder, people have responded by giving up and playing other games instead.
I feel that things were perfect with TD, and that wasn't heavily seal shop driven. Nighthawk was accessible and farmable, which is important. This gave players something that they could sell to other players looking to gear up at reasonable prices. Level 80 gear was your expensive end game items, while level 70 gear was accessible and viable in 80 raids. You could farm mats needed for both in TD, which encouraged more active play. I feel like the seal shop should be more of an event similar to the enchant scroll events. The population booms when that sort of thing happens, but invariably peters out, leaving us to where we are today. Might as well not tank the economy while you're at it.
Look at all the relatively hard parts of the game. Neam obviously comes to mind. When Neam came out, I predicted that most people would give up and stop trying after a month or so. Turns out I was right. When Neam first came out, I saw several Neam practice parties evey single day. After a month, that dropped to zero. And the number of parties that actually do successful runs now is 1, and they usually dont even have a full party. (Figures for your server will differ obviously).
Nature of the beast, neam was made to appease a more hardcore group of the population which obviously isn't everyone. You have to throw them a bone every now and then.
Look at the revamped royal raids. They used to be super easy, and people sometimes did them for titles/easy seals whenever people megaphoned for it. Now, people dont touch them because the bosses have insanely high HP and it takes 20+ minutes to kill for terrible rewards, and thats with at least 6 very well geared players carrying. And thats assuming the servers dont turn into a slideshow. If the servers do turn into a slide show, enjoy your 30+ minutes of boredom.
The servers sucking **** is the main reason I don't touch these.
There are still people in full level 90 OJ enchanted gear who refuse to touch Nifleheim because "too hard" or "ceebs". That should tell you all you need to know about how much the population likes difficult things. I have seen people with +15 level 90s refuse to do s3 dailies because "it is too hard". That says a lot.
I don't know what to say here. I guess +15 90s are too accessible now.
For every hardcore player who wants something to be difficult, there are probably at least 10 who wants it easier. How many people have you seen quit the game because "this is too hard" vs "this too easy"? Pretty much every veteran has lost count of the number of people who have quit because they couldnt progress in gear, couldnt get drops, couldnt even get to +8 after using 10 runes, etc, etc. I can only remember two guys who quit because they complained it was too easy...ironically they are now playing again, and aren't enjoying Neam.
Difficulty in content and difficulty in grind are apples and oranges.
Oh sure you hear about people quitting because they got good gear and feel they have nothing else to aim for. What they dont tell you is that they still can improve their gear, but cant be bothered to do so. Most of those are attack capped for s3, but arent stat capped, and dont want to try. Why? "Ceebs". Sure they can use material synthesis to stat cap...but again..."ceebs". When it takes more than a week's worth of s3 dailies to get enough mats for one major stat increase, most people simply cannot be bothered.
From the people I've gotten close to in my guild I've learned that endgame goals vary widely. Not everyone is a perfectionist, especially when you cannot realistically notice the difference in 89 speed and 93 speed, yet the cost to achieve a little bit more speed and still retaining the rest of your stats at cap are tremendous when it involves gear swapping to get there. Some people feel that their current stats are acceptable for their goals, and feel that the benefits of grinding for better gear are at a plateau. This is an understandable assessment, as the cost of your time vs the benefits starts winding down.
I find myself repeating the same conversation everytime a new piece of gear is released. When Eoch earrings came out, I had people tell me they didnt want to play because they had good gear and felt there was nothning left to do, even though they didnt have the new earrings. When I asked them why they didnt want to get the new earrings, they just said "ceebs" "i wont get the rare drop anyway" "too hard". Same thing happened with the level 85 belt. Its not that they have nothing left to do, its that they have nothing EASY left to do.
I'm guilty of this. For me personally, it's because I know the prices are going to eventually tank and the benefits of it over say, an 85 belt over my already crit infused peridot belt are minimal. I'll get it eventually, but I'm not in a huge hurry especially since I'll have to change around a lot of my gear to actually benefit from that extra balance, seeing that I'm already crit/balance capped.
They could run Eochaid/Abomination to get the essence...but because its REALLY rare....they cant be bothered. Where are they now? Playing other games. When/If we get eoch/abo essences in the seal shop, they will probably come back to make it with seals. But they wont touch the raids because they cant be bothered to do them, and in the meantime they wont play the game because they ran out of easy stuff to do.
I do Eochaid/Abom sparingly because they simply are not fun runs. I like Eochaid to an extent, he's fun to solo with chainblades, but Abom has crappy mechanics and it's just something we do if somebody needs to finish up some runs for the title. In my opinion the only good raid that has come out in Season 3 is Lord Glas, and I would go up against him even if he didn't drop anything.
Comments
@Sekaiiz Never said anything about nexon hosting missions, just said raids would be the only things that wouldn't be open world because people like to do raid trains and such a lot. Just my 2 cents.
Did I say it's too hack-n-slashy? I said that it would be nice if the game had more depth. If BDO actually had valuable PvE content it would destroy Vindi in terms of giving players a reason to stay in game when they aren't grinding non-stop. There's a reason that games like GW2, WoW, SWTOR, TERA, BnS, and other constantly beat Vindi in popularity and that is because there are things to do outside of combat. I'm not sure why you think that seeing every point of view at the extreme is a PoV that elevates a conversation, but it isn't.
Kingdom Under Fire 2 is still coming, Bless is coming with its combat revamp, and there are plenty of other things on the horizon. I'm simply saying that if they're really looking at revamping Vindi to have more content it would be great. Yes, I get that you think Vindi has no need to do anything to stay relevant in days to come, but I think it does, just like others do. We play the game, we put time and money into it, and our opinions are just as valid. In the future we'll just agree to disagree any you don't need to respond to my posts about how I think the game should change and I won't respond to yours about how stagnation is life.
Vindi can take it as a reference.
Dude, you're like, so politically knowledgeable. I bet you've got all the answers. /s
If you're really that butthurt about Brynn and Ferghus, it's likely your own fault tbh. Nexon NA has given tons of free stuff to help with the RNG.
To a certain extent, yes. When i played warhammer online, it was great stumbling on some landmark in the middle of nowhere that added an entry to your codex. In practice, when you hit the level cap, you almost never did this because there was no reason to actually go out looking for stuff in the middle of nowhere. End game was all about realm vs realm PVP and raids in instanced dungeons.
The novelty of exploring wore off very quickly especially since to explroe meant you had to deal with tons of canon fodder trash mobs and the combat in that game was tab targetting, so pretty annoying to kill them if you didnt have good AOE skills.
Heres the problem : Most people dont actually want that. I mean sure, a lot of people say they do. Look at all the non-combat stuff in the game now. How popular are they?
Look at BDO. Sure people say theres tons of stuff to do in it. What that really means is that people just afk while doing non-combat stuff.
From talking with a lot of people, it seems that people arent really getting bored of killing the same bosses, what they are getting bored of is the lack of easy progression. It takes a lot of s3 dailies to get enough mats to upgrade your stats via material synthesis (not to mention the gold), so most people dont bother. It takes a lot of raids to get a scroll to drop, so most people dont bother. If progression was easier, people would be constantly progressing instead of getting bored.
I have a friend who quit for FF14 precisely because enchants are RNG and he prefers FF14's system where you just do end game raids to get gear via a system similar to the seal shop and thats it. No RNG enchants or enhancing. Its guaranteed progression. He doesnt want to risk destroying OJ gear or losing scrolls at all.
BDO's developer is smarter it seems. See, by putting the RNG part at the end...they are getting a lot of people to stay in the meantime. And when people do reach end game, they feel they have spent too much time/money/whatever on the game and so stay "locked in" AKA the sunk cost fallacy. And theres way more people who are still climbing their way to the end game so the game doesnt feel dead, whereas vindi is mostly populated by level 90s for a reason.
Its really not better. Sure, the environment may look different, but you are still going through the same boring maps killing the same boring mobs. Except you get all the disadvantages of open world like trolls, pkers, killstealers, etc.
In Vindi, I know that I just need to fight my way through a dungeon, kill the boss, and im done with that place. In open world I would have to farm 100+ mobs in some field, which might take hours.
The countless people who have quit because of Brynn/Ferghus disagree with you.
Once again, if someone quit because of Ferghus/Brynn, they didn't actually quit because of them, they quit because they have an unhealthy addiction to the game and got too invested.
All you can do is thank them for their hefty contributions to the game and laugh at them when they're gone. ;^)
Not really. Some players spend some money on runes without knowing the failure rates are so bad, or simply saying they'll give it a go, then see it as a bad investment and peace out. Some players do it and simply don't see it as getting their money's worth and leave. There are lots of other scenarios where people experience the enhance/enchant system and get tired/frustrated and quit without ever having an unhealthy addiction. Your tendency to see only extremes doesn't make your arguments valid.
no? lol.
I "quit" because of those characters and that does not describe me whatsoever. I think the gearing system in Vindi is absurdly bad. And don't even about the "free" stuff we get, tell me straight up with my 6-7 or w/e free enhance runes that I can compete with someone who buys 100 of them. Nah dude, it doesn't work like that.
It's not like this game is the first ever to have an RNG enhance system, so pretending like people are leaving because they bought a rune and it failed is a thoughtless argument.
If you want to "compete" with people, you should expect to spend money and get burned, it's the nature of any P2W game tbh.
I'm looking at this from a casual perspective, people who get worked up over a free game's rng system are clearly investing themselves too much into the game.
Funny, because when roch/drags was end game, the game population was far higher than it is now even though level 60 gear was easy to obtain and roch/drags werent hard.
The game pop took a nose dive when s2 was released. Why? s2 was too hard, drag mats werent in seal shop yet, and most people got their level 80 gear by buying boxes. As people kept doing s2 raids and getting burnt out, more and more quit because "why bother, i wont get drops anyway". When level 80 mats were put into the seal shop, I was actually able to convince some of them to come back because they could use seals to progress their gear.
Everytime the game has gotten easier by improving the seal shop, the game pop has actually risen because people tried coming back. Everytime the game has gotten harder, people have responded by giving up and playing other games instead.
Look at all the relatively hard parts of the game. Neam obviously comes to mind. When Neam came out, I predicted that most people would give up and stop trying after a month or so. Turns out I was right. When Neam first came out, I saw several Neam practice parties evey single day. After a month, that dropped to zero. And the number of parties that actually do successful runs now is 1, and they usually dont even have a full party. (Figures for your server will differ obviously).
Why? I asked around and the responses that I got were basically "too hard" "ceebs" "cant attack cap so ceebs" "stats not high enough" "rather play bdo" "rather play warframe" "rather play TERA" etc. Plenty of people with +14s, +15s just gave up and stopped trying.
Look at the revamped royal raids. They used to be super easy, and people sometimes did them for titles/easy seals whenever people megaphoned for it. Now, people dont touch them because the bosses have insanely high HP and it takes 20+ minutes to kill for terrible rewards, and thats with at least 6 very well geared players carrying. And thats assuming the servers dont turn into a slideshow. If the servers do turn into a slide show, enjoy your 30+ minutes of boredom.
There are still people in full level 90 OJ enchanted gear who refuse to touch Nifleheim because "too hard" or "ceebs". That should tell you all you need to know about how much the population likes difficult things. I have seen people with +15 level 90s refuse to do s3 dailies because "it is too hard". That says a lot.
For every hardcore player who wants something to be difficult, there are probably at least 10 who wants it easier. How many people have you seen quit the game because "this is too hard" vs "this too easy"? Pretty much every veteran has lost count of the number of people who have quit because they couldnt progress in gear, couldnt get drops, couldnt even get to +8 after using 10 runes, etc, etc. I can only remember two guys who quit because they complained it was too easy...ironically they are now playing again, and aren't enjoying Neam.
Oh sure you hear about people quitting because they got good gear and feel they have nothing else to aim for. What they dont tell you is that they still can improve their gear, but cant be bothered to do so. Most of those are attack capped for s3, but arent stat capped, and dont want to try. Why? "Ceebs". Sure they can use material synthesis to stat cap...but again..."ceebs". When it takes more than a week's worth of s3 dailies to get enough mats for one major stat increase, most people simply cannot be bothered.
I find myself repeating the same conversation everytime a new piece of gear is released. When Eoch earrings came out, I had people tell me they didnt want to play because they had good gear and felt there was nothning left to do, even though they didnt have the new earrings. When I asked them why they didnt want to get the new earrings, they just said "ceebs" "i wont get the rare drop anyway" "too hard". Same thing happened with the level 85 belt. Its not that they have nothing left to do, its that they have nothing EASY left to do.
They could run Eochaid/Abomination to get the essence...but because its REALLY rare....they cant be bothered. Where are they now? Playing other games. When/If we get eoch/abo essences in the seal shop, they will probably come back to make it with seals. But they wont touch the raids because they cant be bothered to do them, and in the meantime they wont play the game because they ran out of easy stuff to do.
People in this very thread have told you that they weren't tricked out of their money or addicted to the game, they just don't like the system. Your hyperbole is still pointless and your argument is empty and not based in reality.
Keep telling yourself that, fam. Just because a few people in a thread say something, doesn't mean it's actually the truth.
Besides, if Ferghus and Brynn were really that much of an issue., the game would have died a long time ago, so it's pointless to whine about it, unless you're just really salty about your own bad luck. If you're really interested in the longevity of the game, you should be pushing for more content, not easier systems that give players a reason to quit the game faster.
except I literally just stated why I "quit", and it was not for the reasons you stated...
can't you realize that ferghus and brynn ARE an issue for some players? clearly not all as some choose to remain, but they are an issue for some players such as myself. "the game would have died long ago" is reliant on EVERYONE disliking brynn and ferghus when in reality most of the people who continue to play Vindi only put up with it.
They can be frustrating if you're dumping money into them, or if you've got the mentality that you have to compete with those who either do dump money or are lucky, but they're hardly the biggest issue the game has. Lack of engaging content between updates is really what drives people from this game.
For real though, if this is the issue you most want to cry about, free to play games probably aren't for you.
Titan, Thor, Ingkells and Glas were all quite challenging for the gear, multipliers, and invincibility frames we had at the time.
Dragons and Keaghan as well when they first came out, though, it wasn't too long after that things started getting more easy mode, higher multipliers and doubled HP pools for everyone!
Not really, the game's pop was at a huge low point right before season 2 due to how long it took to get season 2. People gradually trickled back. It didn't help that Kraken and Lakoria were some of the crappiest raids to date. I agree with the guy who said that content droughts are the cancer that eats away at Vindictus's population (paraphrased).
I feel that things were perfect with TD, and that wasn't heavily seal shop driven. Nighthawk was accessible and farmable, which is important. This gave players something that they could sell to other players looking to gear up at reasonable prices. Level 80 gear was your expensive end game items, while level 70 gear was accessible and viable in 80 raids. You could farm mats needed for both in TD, which encouraged more active play. I feel like the seal shop should be more of an event similar to the enchant scroll events. The population booms when that sort of thing happens, but invariably peters out, leaving us to where we are today. Might as well not tank the economy while you're at it.
Nature of the beast, neam was made to appease a more hardcore group of the population which obviously isn't everyone. You have to throw them a bone every now and then.
The servers sucking **** is the main reason I don't touch these.
I don't know what to say here. I guess +15 90s are too accessible now.
Difficulty in content and difficulty in grind are apples and oranges.
From the people I've gotten close to in my guild I've learned that endgame goals vary widely. Not everyone is a perfectionist, especially when you cannot realistically notice the difference in 89 speed and 93 speed, yet the cost to achieve a little bit more speed and still retaining the rest of your stats at cap are tremendous when it involves gear swapping to get there. Some people feel that their current stats are acceptable for their goals, and feel that the benefits of grinding for better gear are at a plateau. This is an understandable assessment, as the cost of your time vs the benefits starts winding down.
I'm guilty of this. For me personally, it's because I know the prices are going to eventually tank and the benefits of it over say, an 85 belt over my already crit infused peridot belt are minimal. I'll get it eventually, but I'm not in a huge hurry especially since I'll have to change around a lot of my gear to actually benefit from that extra balance, seeing that I'm already crit/balance capped.
I do Eochaid/Abom sparingly because they simply are not fun runs. I like Eochaid to an extent, he's fun to solo with chainblades, but Abom has crappy mechanics and it's just something we do if somebody needs to finish up some runs for the title. In my opinion the only good raid that has come out in Season 3 is Lord Glas, and I would go up against him even if he didn't drop anything.