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The latest nerf to Cestus Karok

Vindictus Rep: 1,555
Posts: 144
in General Discussion
From the Alban Festival Update notes:

Fixed an issue where Quick Brutal Flurry is activated after Bobbing"

"Issue" This was not a damn issue at all. I'll address this in two parts, PvE and PvP.
Word wall incoming, I'll do my best to format this properly.


In raids, Quick Brutal Flurry was used to quickly recover stamina and inflict decent damage to bosses when you have no attack resistance(Focus Stimulant, Freeze, Lugh Tathlum buff, DK Fissure).
You could be running, right click to use Bobbing dash, and left click to enter Quick Brutal Flurry in half a second to regain your stamina in 2 seconds, without having to stop attacking the boss or use a stamina potion.
Now, with this change you can only enter the Quick Brutal Flurry after using Bobbing Dash twice. You cannot change direction with the second Bobbing Dash, which means you can overshoot the boss. This reduces the stamina gain and makes me not want to bother using it because it slows my playstyle down. It is no longer convenient nor efficient to bobbing dash twice to use quick brutal flurry for the main reasons it is used.

My playstyle as cestus is generally as follows:
1.Get my buffs going, speed first, followed by crit buff then damage buff
2. Build SP to use Raging Volcano to activate Cataclysm buff, which means my cestus blasts twice in one shot, doing double damage(up to 4x damage with Clean Hit)
3. Use Cataclysm until 5 seconds remaining, use Gigantic Strength buff to refresh buffs and give myself fully charged Blast Gauge, and then Big Bang(and do up to 65k damage generally) when the boss isn't moving sporadically.
4. Use Quick Brutal Flurry to deal damage while waiting for Blast Cooldown to end, so I can charge my Blast Gauge and keep my guaranteed criticals going.
5. Repeat from step 2.

This change means I have to resort to alternate ways of regaining stamina, all of which require downtime from doing damage.
Stamina potion or walking away until stamina refills.
Now, you might ask what happens when you try to use the old way of Quick Flurry? You get the basic version of Brutal Flurry, which is significantly slower and of course does less damage due to being slower.

Cestus Karok can be extremely strong in the right hands and this unnecessary change just slows me down and punishes my hyper aggressive playstyle, despite that being the nature of Cestus Karok, to be relentlessly in-your-face dealing damage.


I'll be honest, Quick Brutal Flurry is absurd in PVP and I never saw a way to balance it other than increasing stamina cost(It's already high if you aren't hitting anything).
I am conflicted on my feeling towards the nerf in PvP because on one hand, It's so damn effective to gain an advantage against nearly any character(Except Hurk. Screw Hurks.) There is the aspect of being able to infinitely juggle someone with this and kill them quickly provided your attack and speed are high enough(or in the case of Siege Match, juggling an enemy to fall off the edge and die).

Some people have argued this fixed Cestus juggling and I simply reminded them that HALF of Cestus smashes will lift an enemy, especially Bolo Punch(LR, the uppercut)
and that Quick Brutal Flurry can still be used, it is now just incredibly inconvenient and inefficient as well as reduces the surprise element.
I can still LR spam someone to death, or I can LR -> LLLLR blast and do half of your health. And I can still Quick Flurry juggle stunlock you to death.
Unfortunately, I don't have any solutions to balance this, so I'll just reiterate: Trash change.

TLDR: Slows down cestus gameplay, makes Cestus players use Flurry less, reduces fun, and is a damned pointless change. It doesn't benefit anyone. It doesn't balance Cestus in PVP. I have to work to do damage in raids, I earn my 1st-4th place with trash stats.
  1. Should Quick Dempsey/Brutal Flurry be reverted to its previous version?22 votes
    1. Yeah dawg, I'm tryin to quick flurry people to death in corners in FFA
       41% (9 votes)
    2. No way, I am a victim of the merciless stunlock
       59% (13 votes)


  • 2edgy4u2edgy4u
    Vindictus Rep: 2,915
    Posts: 391
    your old rotation being as effective as it was seems a good reason to nerf it, considering cestus was already one of the strongest classes. im no karok expert but from your post it sounds like all this change is forcing you to adapt is to bob twice before clicking. just learn not to overshoot and adjust for the increased stamina cost. not even a real nerf tbh.
  • BlissKnightBlissKnight
    Vindictus Rep: 630
    Posts: 51
    Sounds balanced already. Judging by the way you titled your poll options as well...

    You're just mad you don't get decent damage with infinite stamina no more.
  • IkarsuIkarsu
    Vindictus Rep: 3,765
    Posts: 765
    Gee, this sounds familiar...
  • ArishaLArishaL
    Vindictus Rep: 1,100
    Posts: 91
    Just like how they fixed the issue with Kai's roll. How bout that ish.
  • AimAndKillAimAndKill
    Vindictus Rep: 1,590
    Posts: 127
    Well they can do whatever they like to Cestus BUT DONT TOUCH MY PILLAR D:
  • V0lterixV0lterix
    Vindictus Rep: 1,555
    Posts: 144
    After several days of playing with this change, I've come to the conclusion it is just massively annoying. I find myself using quick flurry less, but I still use it plenty, and if anything my damage outside of Niflheim/Royal Raids has improved.

    Sounds balanced already. Judging by the way you titled your poll options as well...

    You're just mad you don't get decent damage with infinite stamina no more.

    Nothing to say about spear lann or hurk? Hmm?
  • StormCrusherStormCrusher
    Vindictus Rep: 1,175
    Posts: 68
    v0lterix i agree with you, this change sux hard. really ruining my gameplay with cestus (which was already broken after migration) and my dmg is much lower.
    good to know that it can be activated after 2 dashes so atleast its something
    anyway.. my advice - take pillar :)
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
    Vindictus Rep: 8,530
    Posts: 1,320
    It's always sad when devs take mechanics/abilities that players have gotten used to and learned to play with in the best possible way and then negate them. The negative responses aren't surprising though; the similar Kai thread had hate out the wazoo and Hurk's nerf at the start of S3--which was finally partially reversed--was met with a lot of people telling players who loved Hurk to 'git gud'. It's bad design to make these kinds of changes. I see nothing wrong with having stamina as a stat, but characters who are played well should have the ability to overcome that penalty. If you dodge, attack, and utilize your cool downs correctly you should be rewarded. Not something I'll ever see otherwise. Increase the challenge, but don't make an artificial one by removing or downgrading abilities or simply turning bosses into damage sponges.