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Just wanted to pop in and say that there are, indeed, other people reading this thread who are more... open-minded, let's say, and more receptive to an open discussion about this topic. Many of us may be keeping silent for various reasons, including reluctance to get involved in a flaming war, or because we've grown complacent with the airtight system that we already have, but we're still here and listening. @ EU players, I'd suggest directing your comments to this audience, rather than trying to convince specific outspoken posters in this thread. Do keep bringing in information and evidence, though, and keep up the fight -- the "it wouldn't benefit me, so nobody should have it" attitude of some people shouldn't stop you from advocating for yourselves.
My own two cents: first off, keep in mind that TIR and airtight are NOT mutually exclusive -- we can have both at the same time. And no, having both will not decrease Nexon's profits, because people don't buy gachas for the airtights. Anyway, personally, I feel that the fact that TIR doesn't depend on events already constitutes a major advantage over airtight items. After all, that's the entire point of the system: so players can get NX items without spending NX or depending on events. The selection of airtight items that becomes available is also inconsistent between events, which further detracts from players' ability to get what they want when they want it. (That answers "Why bring TIR in this game when everyone gets what they want?" Obviously, not everyone is getting what they want.) The ability to buy outfitters is another plus for TIR. And no, "just open your wallet and buy some NX" is not a valid argument because the purpose of this thread is to discuss different methods of making NX items accessible for non-paying players.
But if NA doesn't get it, at least give EU back their TIR. It's been proven to work for them, so why fix something that isn't broken? And if anyone says "No fair, why should EU get TIR if NA doesn't?" -- well, either 1) you agree that TIR is unnecessary, so you shouldn't care anyway, or 2) you do believe that TIR would be beneficial, in which case get on this thread and show your support. You have a voice -- use it, or allow one person to dictate the entire community's position.
Just wanted to pop in and say that there are, indeed, other people reading this thread who are more... open-minded, let's say, and more receptive to an open discussion about this topic. Many of us may be keeping silent for various reasons, including reluctance to get involved in a flaming war, or because we've grown complacent with the airtight system that we already have, but we're still here and listening. @ EU players, I'd suggest directing your comments to this audience, rather than trying to convince specific outspoken posters in this thread. Do keep bringing in information and evidence, though, and keep up the fight -- the "it wouldn't benefit me, so nobody should have it" attitude of some people shouldn't stop you from advocating for yourselves.
My own two cents: first off, keep in mind that TIR and airtight are NOT mutually exclusive -- we can have both at the same time. And no, having both will not decrease Nexon's profits, because people don't buy gachas for the airtights. Anyway, personally, I feel that the fact that TIR doesn't depend on events already constitutes a major advantage over airtight items. After all, that's the entire point of the system: so players can get NX items without spending NX or depending on events. The selection of airtight items that becomes available is also inconsistent between events, which further detracts from players' ability to get what they want when they want it. (That answers "Why bring TIR in this game when everyone gets what they want?" Obviously, not everyone is getting what they want.) The ability to buy outfitters is another plus for TIR. And no, "just open your wallet and buy some NX" is not a valid argument because the purpose of this thread is to discuss different methods of making NX items accessible for non-paying players.
But if NA doesn't get it, at least give EU back their TIR. It's been proven to work for them, so why fix something that isn't broken? And if anyone says "No fair, why should EU get TIR if NA doesn't?" -- well, either 1) you agree that TIR is unnecessary, so you shouldn't care anyway, or 2) you do believe that TIR would be beneficial, in which case get on this thread and show your support. You have a voice -- use it, or allow one person to dictate the entire community's position.
Thank you for sharing . I hope that more people from NA will get to know about TIR Coins and give their insights about this topic. We're happy to answer any questions and discuss the topic with open minds as well ^^.
Um @desireofmine "they act like they were costumers or something smh ungrateful kids these days" was obviously sarcasm
Just noticed, sorry i missed it xD. Yeah you're right it was sarcasm what he said. It is often hard to judge emotional state of response in text since there is no emotional data included (voice tone, body language), but i've checked @Cenobite previous post and yeah, it clearly indicates that he meant the next response as sarcasm.
Sorry for mistake and thanks for pointing it out ^^, i will fix the quote in my previous post to avoid confusion xD.
Yes, airtight + tir coins can coexist, we had it in EU before tir coins were taken out, it was quite nice and didn't hurt the tir price eighter. I personally used TIR coins for the little stuff, market coupon here, megaphone there (though you got them on market anyway), some dura pots in between. I didn't have to charge 5k nx first. Or I had some nx leftovers, turned them into tirs and covered the remaining with market tir coins.
But on the old thread we had other examples of thony who bought a lot of avatar sets without spending real money.
Sure, from day 1 we wanted to buy runes with tir coins too, some even called them useless but now look at the threads we have after they got completely removed. They are helpfull, as you can see in the list I made they still cover a lot of things and like it was said, they are always aviable too.
They don't hurt anyone at least, the p2w comment was already discussed more than enough i guess
But on the old thread we had other examples of thony who bought a lot of avatar sets without spending real money.
Not going to happen in NA
Even if is not going to happen (there's still hope though) it's disappointing see how glad you are that TirCoin system isn't going to be implemented when it's something that everyone could enjoy. Somehow this system hurts you and you keep call in cause the PayToWin when it's already PayToWin and as I said TirCoin would make it more fair for people who can't afford, and won't afford, real money in game. I don't understand why you can't accept it. It is not going to hurt you in any way unless you're jealous of people who use in real money to progress in game (which is a thing that happens already since it's PayToWin anyway), or you're hurt by the fact that people could get for 'free' what you pay with real money. Also please, if you could avoid this 'we' when you talk about something that you don't want would be appreciated. Unless you can talk/decide for the whole NA community than feel free to do it.
Who actually cares if Tirs introduce a p2w aspect? Wallet warriors have already long existed in NA be it via Chinese bots, selling NX depot items, or more commonly via mega dumps. Just take a look at those 30k/15k people who die 30 seconds into Regina (true story) I'd honestly have Tir so people can stop converting cash into gold via megas so the ADHD kids spamming megas would (hopefully) get reduced.
Who actually cares if Tirs introduce a p2w aspect? Wallet warriors have already long existed in NA be it via Chinese bots, selling NX depot items, or more commonly via mega dumps. Just take a look at those 30k/15k people who die 30 seconds into Regina (true story) I'd honestly have Tir so people can stop converting cash into gold via megas so the ADHD kids spamming megas would (hopefully) get reduced.
These people already made their bucks through fauna box airtights.
All these airtights lately has been Nexon's answer pretty much.
Basically Nexon wont add TIR coins because they don't want you to use gold to buy NX items,they want you to use NX aka real money.
Tirs are bought with NX therefore Nexon gets teh same amount of money lol
also as unless they plan to make Avatar Sets tradeable on the marketplace like China or Japan i cant see any justifiable reason to not add them we got enough fashion players on EU many of whom haven't bought a single set with NX because they cant but they farmed enough gold to get tirs instead.
also Mabinogi Heroes CN has Tir coins so the system does work in more than one place than just EU.
But on the old thread we had other examples of thony who bought a lot of avatar sets without spending real money.
Not going to happen in NA
Even if is not going to happen (there's still hope though) it's disappointing see how glad you are that TirCoin system isn't going to be implemented when it's something that everyone could enjoy. Somehow this system hurts you and you keep call in cause the PayToWin when it's already PayToWin and as I said TirCoin would make it more fair for people who can't afford, and won't afford, real money in game. I don't understand why you can't accept it. It is not going to hurt you in any way unless you're jealous of people who use in real money to progress in game (which is a thing that happens already since it's PayToWin anyway), or you're hurt by the fact that people could get for 'free' what you pay with real money. Also please, if you could avoid this 'we' when you talk about something that you don't want would be appreciated. Unless you can talk/decide for the whole NA community than feel free to do it.
Nexon is a business and they want you to buy their premium outfitters for real money. Take a good look at Nexon EU and why they were out of business. Airtight item already offer everything that a player would need. The things that you can buy with TIR coin that Airtight can't is already given out for free via Events. As I have mentioned before, those items are premium outfitters in the outfitter shop and pets which can't be obtained through Airtight and are not needed to progress in game.
The rest of the items in the cash shop are obtainable through Airtight items. Therefore, Nexon NA does not need to introduce TIR coin and Saygo already have decided for us that we will NOT be getting tircoin.
Then stay with your beloved rng Airtight. I'll keep asking for TirCoin system to be implemented and I hope that others will aswell. Oh and I think you missunderstood what Saygo said. Prolly the happiness of the moment made you see only what you wanted to read.
We are not ruling out the possibility of ever bringing TIR coins back, but our priority for the foreseeable future is the EU/NA migration and bringing quality content and events for the Vindictus Community.
EU has a different income bracket than NA, and therefore they should have TIR coins. I am a NA player, and I have been to Europe, and the nations there are not as rich as US.
It wouldn't be smart on NA not to bring it because there would be no incentive for a EU player to play. It's like taking away a major function away, and telling them "It's going to be okay". Everyone has their reasons for playing weather it's for fashion or the game mechanics. Tir coins brought another perspective to the game, and it has build an entire economy based on that feature. If they have got rid of bots for this then I really do not see why NA would hold them back because of this.
If they want to bring equal version then it should be brought to NA servers also. This is not a game breaking feature, and Zoltar (Community manager) has said before that they haven't brought this in because of Pay2Win feature. The fact of the matter it's not. When we refer to Pay2Win it means having a wallet in this game will give you a game breaking advantage. Meaning if you spend 1000 dollars you will get 100% a +15 weapon. If you spend X amount of dollars you get through Y dungeon. Etc. This is the same currency as server magaphones, and if NA allowed for this to happen then again I am not seeing why they wouldn't allow Tir coins to come back.
1. Yes, Europe has poor countries, but the ones buying NX are obviously not from these poor countries, so the lack of tir coins will not affect them.
2. Yes tir coins along with NX selling was part of EU, but tir coins have been removed from the EU server for 2 months now, and to be honest - not much has changed. The server was dead back when it had tir coins and it's still dead now. The removal of tir coins didn't turn the EU server upside down nor was there an apocalypse. So let's not exaggerate this whole "OMG EU gonna die" (because quite frankly, it's already dead).
3. There is no concrete correlation between tir coins and bots. If you want Nexon to take you seriously, stop perpetuating and parroting false myths. In fact, this issue has already been addressed by a GM in EU and he said that they "have their methods of dealing with bots" (paraphrasing). Nowhere did his answer include tir coins, so no European GM has ever confirmed a correlation between tirs and bots. Yeah, we get it, tirs are a form of legal gold buying, and it may or may not affect gold sellers, but that's where it ends - it's just a speculation.
By the way, if I'm not mistaken, China has both tirs AND gold-sellers. So there goes your "it's gonna stahp the bots" mantra.
4. Spend 1000$ and get 100% +15? Do you even know how the game works? You can spend all the $$$ you like, at +12, when your runes stop working, your $$$ becomes irrelevant and it's all about RNG. Without tirs, your $$$ is only as relevant as the items you can get in the depot. With tir coins you can buy gold, and with that gold you buy a premade +15 weapon from another player. So no, tir coins are actually more p2w-ish than normal cashing, because, like mentioned above, it's basically legalized gold buying.
Anecdotal evidence - We had a huge casher in EU server who bombed all his +13's and +14's. He couldn't get +15 on his own despite all his NX purchases so he sold tons of NX (and tirs) and eventually bought his +15 Regina Scythe from another player.
With depot - couldn't get past +13 and +14, because RNG. With tir selling - got 800kk gold from NX\tir selling and bought a +15 lvl90 scythe with it.
Also gotta love all the financial experts in this thread. "Nexon should do this", "Nexon will get more profits this way". Yeah, tell Nexon more about how they should run their business. Like, come on... I'm pretty sure Nexon has a team of accountants and finance advisers, and the last thing they need is financial insights from strangers on the internet.
Lastly, if you read between the lines of Saygo's post, it's actually a "no". You'd think that after years of using Nexon's service people will learn to take a hint when the management replies with "We'll think about it". Also 187 is right, NX selling has been against the ToS in NA for a long time, and tir coins are literally NX selling.
So why don't we all act like grown-ups, stop pretending we're world-renowned economics professors who think they know better than Nexon's finance advisers, learn to take "no" as an answer, move on and let it go...
I didn't misunderstood what Saygo said. He probably just said that so people don't lose hope of TIR coming to NA. I don't expect NExon TOs to be changed anytime soon saying that its not illegal to buy and sell NX (TIRcoin). It's been against their terms of service before Vindictus was released.
I like that you're trying to give reason to why it (TIR Coin) wont be implemented, but the blue part shows a bit of ignorance on your part. Here a post that may be enlightening source post #672
and here the really long image you can just skip to the bottom to the conclusion (but if you want to see the evidence used for the conclusion you might want to read the other content). Hope this image help clear things up for people on what is against ToS and what is not and if you have a rebuttal please bring it up.
4. Spend 1000$ and get 100% +15? Do you even know how the game works? You can spend all the $$$ you like, at +12, when your runes stop working, your $$$ becomes irrelevant and it's all about RNG. Without tirs, your $$$ is only as relevant as the items you can get in the depot. With tir coins you can buy gold, and with that gold you buy a premade +15 weapon from another player. So no, tir coins are actually more p2w-ish than normal cashing, because, like mentioned above, it's basically legalized gold buying.
Anecdotal evidence - We had a huge casher in EU server who bombed all his +13's and +14's. He couldn't get +15 on his own despite all his NX purchases so he sold tons of NX (and tirs) and eventually bought his +15 Regina Scythe from another player.
With depot - couldn't get past +13 and +14, because RNG. With tir selling - got 800kk gold from NX\tir selling and bought a +15 lvl90 scythe with it.
you forgot the part where NA already technically has legal gold selling you just buy 10,000 Megaphones stick em all on MP for 500k each get money buy +15
ur getting fixated on the part where Tirs give people gold without people selling Tirs the amount of people i have seen wearing the new avatar sets on EU over the last 2 months has dropped sharply (granted some have said its because they are ugly) but the rest i asked that normally do have said it was because they buy with Tir because they cant afford the NX
@Lavonne My time is important, and I would not like to repeat myself. I am going to quickly go over things that you are incorrect.
1) No ****. If no one was able to afford NX then they can't sell Tir coins. You saying that statement was a waste of time. The people that have a hard time affording NX will farm gold in game in order to buy tir coins. Will you say that this statement is correct?
2) Thanks for showing your Anecdotal evidence. Obviously if there is a thread about this then it means "Someone doesn't like the change", and judging by the comments I can see that many doesn't like the change. You also confirmed that the server is dead, so if 20-30 leave then it is in fact a lot. Thanks for proving my point.
3) " Yeah, we get it, tirs are a form of legal gold buying, and it may or may not affect gold sellers, but that's where it ends - it's just a speculation. " Jesus christ. If there is a thread about this do you think the person "like the change" are they "Satisfied customers"? You just need basic understanding how business works in order to understand.
4) You have missed my point entirely. I was giving examples of "Pay2Win" This game is in fact not pay2Win.
Wow. You think customer feedback is pointless? I have nothing more to say, but that you need to go back to school. Also NA branch is not doing well in terms of profits, and YES they should take notes about what consumers likes or dislikes.
Also that gif at the end was pointless. I am a NA player. and never played on European server. To give it to you in simple terms. I had nothing to begin with.
4. Spend 1000$ and get 100% +15? Do you even know how the game works? You can spend all the $$$ you like, at +12, when your runes stop working, your $$$ becomes irrelevant and it's all about RNG. Without tirs, your $$$ is only as relevant as the items you can get in the depot. With tir coins you can buy gold, and with that gold you buy a premade +15 weapon from another player. So no, tir coins are actually more p2w-ish than normal cashing, because, like mentioned above, it's basically legalized gold buying.
Anecdotal evidence - We had a huge casher in EU server who bombed all his +13's and +14's. He couldn't get +15 on his own despite all his NX purchases so he sold tons of NX (and tirs) and eventually bought his +15 Regina Scythe from another player.
With depot - couldn't get past +13 and +14, because RNG. With tir selling - got 800kk gold from NX\tir selling and bought a +15 lvl90 scythe with it.
you forgot the part where NA already technically has legal gold selling you just buy 10,000 Megaphones stick em all on MP for 500k each get money buy +15
ur getting fixated on the part where Tirs give people gold without people selling Tirs the amount of people i have seen wearing the new avatar sets on EU over the last 2 months has dropped sharply (granted some have said its because they are ugly) but the rest i asked that normally do have said it was because they buy with Tir because they cant afford the NX
The amount of people wearing the new sets is low, but I still noticed the same amount of [Player X received essence of Y from Season-Whatever-Surprise-Box] system messages, which means gacha sales haven't been affected as much. I also saw a couple of Packaged Chieftain Junior in the marketplace, which, once again, means that some players had purchased the gacha boxes from the depot, even though they're completely useless. Also keep in mind that every time you see one of those [Player X received Y from whatever-gacha-box] system messages, they most likely have opened at least 20 boxes.
Avatars or not, Nexon's strongest selling point is definitely those gacha boxes. So it's not surprising they decided to focus on those with the new airtight packages and whatnot.
As for the "you can sell megas" argument, I don't think it's fair to compare it to NX\tir selling.
I mean how many mega can you possibly sell? 10? 20? 40? I dunno, but I'd imagine not as much.
Back in post-Arisha days, when EU was at its peak I remember this one time I registered about 15,000 tir coins, completed one raid and by the time I was done my mail-box was already full with all the gold from the tir coins.
I don't think it's fair to compare the sheer volume of gold one can get from tirs to the gold you'd get from selling megas.
4. Spend 1000$ and get 100% +15? Do you even know how the game works? You can spend all the $$$ you like, at +12, when your runes stop working, your $$$ becomes irrelevant and it's all about RNG. Without tirs, your $$$ is only as relevant as the items you can get in the depot. With tir coins you can buy gold, and with that gold you buy a premade +15 weapon from another player. So no, tir coins are actually more p2w-ish than normal cashing, because, like mentioned above, it's basically legalized gold buying.
Anecdotal evidence - We had a huge casher in EU server who bombed all his +13's and +14's. He couldn't get +15 on his own despite all his NX purchases so he sold tons of NX (and tirs) and eventually bought his +15 Regina Scythe from another player.
With depot - couldn't get past +13 and +14, because RNG. With tir selling - got 800kk gold from NX\tir selling and bought a +15 lvl90 scythe with it.
you forgot the part where NA already technically has legal gold selling you just buy 10,000 Megaphones stick em all on MP for 500k each get money buy +15
ur getting fixated on the part where Tirs give people gold without people selling Tirs the amount of people i have seen wearing the new avatar sets on EU over the last 2 months has dropped sharply (granted some have said its because they are ugly) but the rest i asked that normally do have said it was because they buy with Tir because they cant afford the NX
The amount of people wearing the new sets is low, but I still noticed the same amount of [Player X received essence of Y from Season-Whatever-Surprise-Box] system messages, which means gacha sales haven't been affected as much. I also saw a couple of Packaged Chieftain Junior in the marketplace, which, once again, means that some players had purchased the gacha boxes from the depot, even though they're completely useless. Also keep in mind that every time you see one of those [Player X received Y from whatever-gacha-box] system messages, they most likely have opened at least 20 boxes.
Avatars or not, Nexon's strongest selling point is definitely those gacha boxes. So it's not surprising they decided to focus on those with the new airtight packages and whatnot.
4. Spend 1000$ and get 100% +15? Do you even know how the game works? You can spend all the $$$ you like, at +12, when your runes stop working, your $$$ becomes irrelevant and it's all about RNG. Without tirs, your $$$ is only as relevant as the items you can get in the depot. With tir coins you can buy gold, and with that gold you buy a premade +15 weapon from another player. So no, tir coins are actually more p2w-ish than normal cashing, because, like mentioned above, it's basically legalized gold buying.
Anecdotal evidence - We had a huge casher in EU server who bombed all his +13's and +14's. He couldn't get +15 on his own despite all his NX purchases so he sold tons of NX (and tirs) and eventually bought his +15 Regina Scythe from another player.
With depot - couldn't get past +13 and +14, because RNG. With tir selling - got 800kk gold from NX\tir selling and bought a +15 lvl90 scythe with it.
you forgot the part where NA already technically has legal gold selling you just buy 10,000 Megaphones stick em all on MP for 500k each get money buy +15
ur getting fixated on the part where Tirs give people gold without people selling Tirs the amount of people i have seen wearing the new avatar sets on EU over the last 2 months has dropped sharply (granted some have said its because they are ugly) but the rest i asked that normally do have said it was because they buy with Tir because they cant afford the NX
The amount of people wearing the new sets is low, but I still noticed the same amount of [Player X received essence of Y from Season-Whatever-Surprise-Box] system messages, which means gacha sales haven't been affected as much. I also saw a couple of Packaged Chieftain Junior in the marketplace, which, once again, means that some players had purchased the gacha boxes from the depot, even though they're completely useless. Also keep in mind that every time you see one of those [Player X received Y from whatever-gacha-box] system messages, they most likely have opened at least 20 boxes.
Avatars or not, Nexon's strongest selling point is definitely those gacha boxes. So it's not surprising they decided to focus on those with the new airtight packages and whatnot.
As for the "you can sell megas" argument, I don't think it's fair to compare it to NX\tir selling.
I mean how many mega can you possibly sell? 10? 20? 40? I dunno, but I'd imagine not as much.
Back in post-Arisha days, when EU was at its peak I remember this one time I registered about 15,000 tir coins, completed one raid and by the time I was done my mail-box was already full with all the gold from the tir coins.
I don't think it's fair to compare the sheer volume of gold one can get from tirs to the gold you'd get from selling megas.
while i was on teh Thailand server (yes i know not NA) i sold 500 Megaphones for 250k each in the space of 2 days and was able to accumulate a fair chunk of gold of course since Thailand is a year behind and im not level 90 yet there it wasnt worth buying a regina set (prices are similar to EU btw)
as for Gacha boxes... i always see the same 5 people getting those items so yes if 5 people spamming gacha boxes makes loads of money for nexon than sure go right ahead
4. Spend 1000$ and get 100% +15? Do you even know how the game works? You can spend all the $$$ you like, at +12, when your runes stop working, your $$$ becomes irrelevant and it's all about RNG. Without tirs, your $$$ is only as relevant as the items you can get in the depot. With tir coins you can buy gold, and with that gold you buy a premade +15 weapon from another player. So no, tir coins are actually more p2w-ish than normal cashing, because, like mentioned above, it's basically legalized gold buying.
Anecdotal evidence - We had a huge casher in EU server who bombed all his +13's and +14's. He couldn't get +15 on his own despite all his NX purchases so he sold tons of NX (and tirs) and eventually bought his +15 Regina Scythe from another player.
With depot - couldn't get past +13 and +14, because RNG. With tir selling - got 800kk gold from NX\tir selling and bought a +15 lvl90 scythe with it.
you forgot the part where NA already technically has legal gold selling you just buy 10,000 Megaphones stick em all on MP for 500k each get money buy +15
ur getting fixated on the part where Tirs give people gold without people selling Tirs the amount of people i have seen wearing the new avatar sets on EU over the last 2 months has dropped sharply (granted some have said its because they are ugly) but the rest i asked that normally do have said it was because they buy with Tir because they cant afford the NX
The amount of people wearing the new sets is low, but I still noticed the same amount of [Player X received essence of Y from Season-Whatever-Surprise-Box] system messages, which means gacha sales haven't been affected as much. I also saw a couple of Packaged Chieftain Junior in the marketplace, which, once again, means that some players had purchased the gacha boxes from the depot, even though they're completely useless. Also keep in mind that every time you see one of those [Player X received Y from whatever-gacha-box] system messages, they most likely have opened at least 20 boxes.
Avatars or not, Nexon's strongest selling point is definitely those gacha boxes. So it's not surprising they decided to focus on those with the new airtight packages and whatnot.
As for the "you can sell megas" argument, I don't think it's fair to compare it to NX\tir selling.
I mean how many mega can you possibly sell? 10? 20? 40? I dunno, but I'd imagine not as much.
Back in post-Arisha days, when EU was at its peak I remember this one time I registered about 15,000 tir coins, completed one raid and by the time I was done my mail-box was already full with all the gold from the tir coins.
I don't think it's fair to compare the sheer volume of gold one can get from tirs to the gold you'd get from selling megas.
There is tons of gold to be made from megas. A full page of stacks sold over this weekend. When the game is active megas move very, very quickly, and they're consistent gold. Same for the airtight merchandise no doubt. It's clear that Nexon's stance on no P2W is fully tongue in cheek, because a new player can buy and sell cash items to their heart's content to make all the gold they need, it's just that with this system versus Tir, it takes a lot more cash to make it happen.
Regardless, P2W exists in either case. I'm not going to pretend otherwise no matter what Nexon chooses to do.
Since we have airtight and megaphones in our server which basically covers everything but the inability to buy outfitters, there is no need to add a tircoin system (another p2w system)in our server.
Please. Just say that you don't want tir coin to be implemented, no need to hide against these airtights over and over. Also TirCoin system is a definitely a need for all the players who can't and won't afford to spend money in game. It's not a need for you, maybe.
Comments
My own two cents: first off, keep in mind that TIR and airtight are NOT mutually exclusive -- we can have both at the same time. And no, having both will not decrease Nexon's profits, because people don't buy gachas for the airtights. Anyway, personally, I feel that the fact that TIR doesn't depend on events already constitutes a major advantage over airtight items. After all, that's the entire point of the system: so players can get NX items without spending NX or depending on events. The selection of airtight items that becomes available is also inconsistent between events, which further detracts from players' ability to get what they want when they want it. (That answers "Why bring TIR in this game when everyone gets what they want?" Obviously, not everyone is getting what they want.) The ability to buy outfitters is another plus for TIR. And no, "just open your wallet and buy some NX" is not a valid argument because the purpose of this thread is to discuss different methods of making NX items accessible for non-paying players.
But if NA doesn't get it, at least give EU back their TIR. It's been proven to work for them, so why fix something that isn't broken? And if anyone says "No fair, why should EU get TIR if NA doesn't?" -- well, either 1) you agree that TIR is unnecessary, so you shouldn't care anyway, or 2) you do believe that TIR would be beneficial, in which case get on this thread and show your support. You have a voice -- use it, or allow one person to dictate the entire community's position.
We're happy to answer any questions and discuss the topic with open minds as well ^^.
Just noticed, sorry i missed it xD.
Yeah you're right it was sarcasm what he said. It is often hard to judge emotional state of response in text since there is no emotional data included (voice tone, body language), but i've checked @Cenobite previous post and yeah, it clearly indicates that he meant the next response as sarcasm.
Sorry for mistake and thanks for pointing it out ^^, i will fix the quote in my previous post to avoid confusion xD.
Yes, airtight + tir coins can coexist, we had it in EU before tir coins were taken out, it was quite nice and didn't hurt the tir price eighter.
I personally used TIR coins for the little stuff, market coupon here, megaphone there (though you got them on market anyway), some dura pots in between. I didn't have to charge 5k nx first. Or I had some nx leftovers, turned them into tirs and covered the remaining with market tir coins.
But on the old thread we had other examples of thony who bought a lot of avatar sets without spending real money.
Sure, from day 1 we wanted to buy runes with tir coins too, some even called them useless but now look at the threads we have after they got completely removed. They are helpfull, as you can see in the list I made they still cover a lot of things and like it was said, they are always aviable too.
They don't hurt anyone at least, the p2w comment was already discussed more than enough i guess
I'd honestly have Tir so people can stop converting cash into gold via megas so the ADHD kids spamming megas would (hopefully) get reduced.
All these airtights lately has been Nexon's answer pretty much.
also as unless they plan to make Avatar Sets tradeable on the marketplace like China or Japan i cant see any justifiable reason to not add them we got enough fashion players on EU many of whom haven't bought a single set with NX because they cant but they farmed enough gold to get tirs instead.
also Mabinogi Heroes CN has Tir coins so the system does work in more than one place than just EU.
Oh and I think you missunderstood what Saygo said. Prolly the happiness of the moment made you see only what you wanted to read.
It wouldn't be smart on NA not to bring it because there would be no incentive for a EU player to play. It's like taking away a major function away, and telling them "It's going to be okay". Everyone has their reasons for playing weather it's for fashion or the game mechanics. Tir coins brought another perspective to the game, and it has build an entire economy based on that feature. If they have got rid of bots for this then I really do not see why NA would hold them back because of this.
If they want to bring equal version then it should be brought to NA servers also. This is not a game breaking feature, and Zoltar (Community manager) has said before that they haven't brought this in because of Pay2Win feature. The fact of the matter it's not. When we refer to Pay2Win it means having a wallet in this game will give you a game breaking advantage. Meaning if you spend 1000 dollars you will get 100% a +15 weapon. If you spend X amount of dollars you get through Y dungeon. Etc. This is the same currency as server magaphones, and if NA allowed for this to happen then again I am not seeing why they wouldn't allow Tir coins to come back.
There's so much misinformation in your post.
1. Yes, Europe has poor countries, but the ones buying NX are obviously not from these poor countries, so the lack of tir coins will not affect them.
2. Yes tir coins along with NX selling was part of EU, but tir coins have been removed from the EU server for 2 months now, and to be honest - not much has changed. The server was dead back when it had tir coins and it's still dead now. The removal of tir coins didn't turn the EU server upside down nor was there an apocalypse. So let's not exaggerate this whole "OMG EU gonna die" (because quite frankly, it's already dead).
3. There is no concrete correlation between tir coins and bots. If you want Nexon to take you seriously, stop perpetuating and parroting false myths. In fact, this issue has already been addressed by a GM in EU and he said that they "have their methods of dealing with bots" (paraphrasing). Nowhere did his answer include tir coins, so no European GM has ever confirmed a correlation between tirs and bots. Yeah, we get it, tirs are a form of legal gold buying, and it may or may not affect gold sellers, but that's where it ends - it's just a speculation.
By the way, if I'm not mistaken, China has both tirs AND gold-sellers. So there goes your "it's gonna stahp the bots" mantra.
4. Spend 1000$ and get 100% +15? Do you even know how the game works? You can spend all the $$$ you like, at +12, when your runes stop working, your $$$ becomes irrelevant and it's all about RNG. Without tirs, your $$$ is only as relevant as the items you can get in the depot. With tir coins you can buy gold, and with that gold you buy a premade +15 weapon from another player. So no, tir coins are actually more p2w-ish than normal cashing, because, like mentioned above, it's basically legalized gold buying.
Anecdotal evidence - We had a huge casher in EU server who bombed all his +13's and +14's. He couldn't get +15 on his own despite all his NX purchases so he sold tons of NX (and tirs) and eventually bought his +15 Regina Scythe from another player.
With depot - couldn't get past +13 and +14, because RNG.
With tir selling - got 800kk gold from NX\tir selling and bought a +15 lvl90 scythe with it.
Also gotta love all the financial experts in this thread. "Nexon should do this", "Nexon will get more profits this way". Yeah, tell Nexon more about how they should run their business. Like, come on... I'm pretty sure Nexon has a team of accountants and finance advisers, and the last thing they need is financial insights from strangers on the internet.
Lastly, if you read between the lines of Saygo's post, it's actually a "no". You'd think that after years of using Nexon's service people will learn to take a hint when the management replies with "We'll think about it". Also 187 is right, NX selling has been against the ToS in NA for a long time, and tir coins are literally NX selling.
So why don't we all act like grown-ups, stop pretending we're world-renowned economics professors who think they know better than Nexon's finance advisers, learn to take "no" as an answer, move on and let it go...
and here the really long image you can just skip to the bottom to the conclusion (but if you want to see the evidence used for the conclusion you might want to read the other content). Hope this image help clear things up for people on what is against ToS and what is not and if you have a rebuttal please bring it up.
ur getting fixated on the part where Tirs give people gold without people selling Tirs the amount of people i have seen wearing the new avatar sets on EU over the last 2 months has dropped sharply (granted some have said its because they are ugly) but the rest i asked that normally do have said it was because they buy with Tir because they cant afford the NX
My time is important, and I would not like to repeat myself. I am going to quickly go over things that you are incorrect.
1) No ****. If no one was able to afford NX then they can't sell Tir coins. You saying that statement was a waste of time. The people that have a hard time affording NX will farm gold in game in order to buy tir coins. Will you say that this statement is correct?
2) Thanks for showing your Anecdotal evidence. Obviously if there is a thread about this then it means "Someone doesn't like the change", and judging by the comments I can see that many doesn't like the change. You also confirmed that the server is dead, so if 20-30 leave then it is in fact a lot. Thanks for proving my point.
3) " Yeah, we get it, tirs are a form of legal gold buying, and it may or may not affect gold sellers, but that's where it ends - it's just a speculation. " Jesus christ. If there is a thread about this do you think the person "like the change" are they "Satisfied customers"? You just need basic understanding how business works in order to understand.
4) You have missed my point entirely. I was giving examples of "Pay2Win" This game is in fact not pay2Win.
Wow. You think customer feedback is pointless? I have nothing more to say, but that you need to go back to school. Also NA branch is not doing well in terms of profits, and YES they should take notes about what consumers likes or dislikes.
Also that gif at the end was pointless. I am a NA player. and never played on European server. To give it to you in simple terms. I had nothing to begin with.
Avatars or not, Nexon's strongest selling point is definitely those gacha boxes. So it's not surprising they decided to focus on those with the new airtight packages and whatnot.
As for the "you can sell megas" argument, I don't think it's fair to compare it to NX\tir selling.
I mean how many mega can you possibly sell? 10? 20? 40? I dunno, but I'd imagine not as much.
Back in post-Arisha days, when EU was at its peak I remember this one time I registered about 15,000 tir coins, completed one raid and by the time I was done my mail-box was already full with all the gold from the tir coins.
I don't think it's fair to compare the sheer volume of gold one can get from tirs to the gold you'd get from selling megas.
as for Gacha boxes... i always see the same 5 people getting those items so yes if 5 people spamming gacha boxes makes loads of money for nexon than sure go right ahead
Regardless, P2W exists in either case. I'm not going to pretend otherwise no matter what Nexon chooses to do.