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If you like BDO and you play it then good on you. But there's no denying that the game is dead. It's Vindictus level dead, and it's much newer than Vindictus is.
The only part that I have a hard time believing. There are still a lot of people who participate in Sieges, the only thing that feels dead nowadays are probably the grinding spots cause most people are already level 60 on their mains, just doing Red Battle Field while doing AFK things for profit. I mean it's arguable that AFK while getting money is what makes it dead, but still..
Maybe if Vindictus had a similar upgrading/enhancement system, it may not have been this dead.
And the sad part is.. none of our suggestions are going to be heard anyways so to complain about this weapons breaking on enhancing and enchanting is, sadly, pointless.
Eh, I'm not gonna hate on BDO. It's a great game in its own right, but nothing is without its problems.
Yes, there are always lots of people logged in. Problem is that a vast majority of them are afk doing things to make money, only a small portion are actually actively playing. Sure, the open world is vast and pretty, but it's also pointlessly large. The size of the map is not as immersive as it is annoying with the lack of fast travel systems. I mean, everyone here would be complaining if you HAD to run from colhen to Rocheste because they thought it was immersive to not have a carriage.
And the combat.... it is what it is. It felt painfully repetitive regardless of the class I was playing, and just felt......clunky, with lack of a better term.
Not really worth comparing the two games too much, honestly. One is an open world farming simulator while the other is a dungeon diving farming simulator, because regardless of which you choose, there's going to be a grind.
Just pick which combat system you prefer and leave it at that. I just think vindictus system is smoother and more rewarding to skilled play
It's amusing to watch the discussion change over the years.
A while back it was Vindi vs Dark Souls and Monster Hunter.
Then it turned into Vindi vs "There's nothing like it".
Then in the last year it was Vindi vs BNS and BDO.
And of course throughout the ages people insisted Vindi won everytime because this is the Vindi forum and only people who particularly like the combat system with all its quirks are still here. Does it really? Ehhhh. I'm sure a big component of all of the above comparisons is Vindi is free to begin.
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Original post is indeed a dead horse though. DevCat have made their stance clear on that.
It's amusing to watch the discussion change over the years.
A while back it was Vindi vs Dark Souls and Monster Hunter.
Then it turned into Vindi vs "There's nothing like it".
Then in the last year it was Vindi vs BNS and BDO.
And of course throughout the ages people insisted Vindi won everytime because this is the Vindi forum and only people who particularly like the combat system with all its quirks are still here. Does it really? Ehhhh. I'm sure a big component of all of the above comparisons is Vindi is free to begin.
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Original post is indeed a dead horse though. DevCat have made their stance clear on that.
And on the other games' forums there's none of this kind of comparisons. It's only in this game that some people think like they are either superior with their skills to other games or other games are superior because it's hard to leave it or accept that it's a different game.
i dont think i ever failed something more than 4 times in a row
I had a friend who quit about 3.5 years ago after 180 dollars spent trying to double enchant his +13 level 60 pillar.
I don't think I've ever succeeded enchanting 4 times in a row.
I know for a fact I once lost 16 enhance runes just trying to go from +8 to +10. And then the weapon blows up going +11.
It's amusing to watch the discussion change over the years.
A while back it was Vindi vs Dark Souls and Monster Hunter.
Then it turned into Vindi vs "There's nothing like it".
Then in the last year it was Vindi vs BNS and BDO.
And of course throughout the ages people insisted Vindi won everytime because this is the Vindi forum and only people who particularly like the combat system with all its quirks are still here. Does it really? Ehhhh. I'm sure a big component of all of the above comparisons is Vindi is free to begin.
.
Original post is indeed a dead horse though. DevCat have made their stance clear on that.
And on the other games' forums there's none of this kind of comparisons. It's only in this game that some people think like they are either superior with their skills to other games or other games are superior because it's hard to leave it or accept that it's a different game.
There are many, all the time, sometimes with very long debates, i follow bdo and blade and soul forum, last one i remember was like nexon vs kakao posted few days ago,
Its not just enhancing/enchanting, its the RNG in general. There are very obvious streak patterns. Go record your incineration results if you want to see it for yourself.
On AUS, there was a day when at least 4 or 5 people got an enthus ES on the same day and put them up on the MP. This is a rare scroll that drops maybe once in 3 months from hero succubus, on a server where probably less than 20 people a day were doing hero succubus. The odds of so many people getting the same scroll on the exact same day is probably astronomical when you consider the actual drop rate of the scroll (probably at 0.1% per core or something stupid).
People easily achieving extremely rare 1 in 100,000 results.
People often misunderstand/mis-apply "sample size" to results. The probability of 1 in 100k is just 1 in 100k. Sample size is not relevant. Its also not just a sample size of "one". Yea sure, if yolo a scroll and it works, OK, totally reasonable, even if the odds are low. When you fail like 10 scrolls at 40% chance each...something starts smelling fishy.
Its like walking into a casino and winning multiple jackpots from the slot machines there. I can 100% guarantee you that management will show up with security and say they want to talk to you. One jackpot? Sure, no problem, SOMEONE has to win it occasionally right? But when someone just walks in and starts getting multiple jackpots, everyone instantly becomes suspicious. Telling them that "well i got 5 jackpots but a sample size of 5 is too statistically insignificant" will not win you any prizes.
Either way the net effect of the RNG is making nexon lose money. Ask any veteran how many people they have seen quit due to the RNG. I know people who have spent more than $1000 on this game who have quit permanently and are now playing games like BDO. Nobody is benefitting from this, its like burning your own restaurant to try and collect insurance money.
Compare the server population NOW....to the server population when roch/drags was end game. The game used to have so many more players back then for a reason. Right now, as of this moment, I can think of plenty of people who refuse to play the game (note : play, not login to afk for free stuff) because "I wont get anything good anyway, why bother? I will just play [insert other game here]".
r7 scrolls are a huge problem as well, even if you do all s3 raids every single day, you aveage only 1-2 scrolls per MONTH. That includes trash scrolls like Stigma. It is nearly impossible to enchant gear unless you are prepared to do tons of farming to try and make gold to buy scrolls, or wait for a repeat of the enchant shop event.
As for those who keep talking about how DevCat\Nexon should feel threatened because of BDO or Bless or whatnot. They don't. What you fail to realize is that games like Vindi hold a monopoly on what they do. There is no other game out there that's remotely close to what Vindi does. There could be 100 BDOs out there and Vindi would still be doing its own niche thing. You're not the target audience of what Nexon\DevCat are going for, the whales who like the niche of Vindi are. And Nexon knows damn well those whales are not going anywhere anytime soon, because there is no other game like Vindi. They can go to BDO, but Nexon knows they'll come back crawling for Vindi whenever there's a new update.
No, no, this is so wrong it hurts.
Vindi USED to hold a monopoly. Nowadays? Not even close. Games like BDO are CLOSE ENOUGH that countless vindi players have jumped ship. Its not exactly the same, but the ones who quit think its close enough or even better.
I was just talking to a staff evie with a +15 this week who jumped ship to BDO because "its got so much more stuff to do". Ive heard people tell me that they think BDO combat is actually better because you are not limited to the "normal attack X times, right click for smash" system. Apparently its a lot more freeform or something.
When the unification events started, i had approximately 40 people online in my friend list. At least 75% of those were just logging on to afk for free stuff while they play BDO or other stuff. Once they hit 100 hours, that number dropped to an average of 15 people on weekend nights while the +2 cores, +2 raids event was on. Of which about 75% were afking for the weekend gifts while playing BDO or other stuff.
The reason why Nexon/Devcat doesnt care is because they are primarily based in Korea. Their main competitors are other korean MMOs, not BDO. Nexon NA's competitors are games like BDO, but they dont have the power to change the enhancing system or anything major, and they probably dont see the issue as long as the game turns a healthy quarterly profit anyway.
If BDO was a korean focused MMO and Nexon KR was losing tons of players to them, you might see some actual changes. But Nexon KR doesnt see a problem because most korean MMOs have the same cancerous RNG rage quit mechanisms that Vindi does and BDO isnt a huge thing in Korea apparently.
People do not come back from other games, not on any long term basis. Look at Neamhain. I know people with +14s and +15s who came back to try out Neamhain for a while then quit because it was too hard or "I'm bored". Look at the abomination update. Literally the same thing happened. People came back for a week or two, then went back to BDO till the next update. I know many more people who have been playing BDO for a year or more and flat out refuse to come back to Vindi to check out the updates.
Pretty sad that a game with actual better combat is doing so much worse than a badly designed combat system like BDO.
idk why you all say is badly designed, you ever played whit end game armor and awakening? honestly I would never change Witch awakening combat system with the evie one..evie feels slow, even whit 80 atk spd, I can not move sideways, I can not jump, i can not move backwards, etc Witch has like 10x the sklls i have on my evie and i can switch betwen 2 weapon during the battle /do combo between them,etc i have 8 keys setted on my keyboard /mouse /12 quick slots lol
At least Evie has to time dodges even tho it's one of the easier classes. Wizard/Witch kills people in .5 seconds in PvP (Where the skill floor/cap should matter) and can literally escape people.
Like don't get me wrong, every class can 100-0 in BDO. Thing is, Vindictus has "some" build variety, actual sustain damage, and you have to time evades. But in BDO if you don't build AP and play for the burst you put yourself at a disadvantage because "any other type of build" will just slow your farm. You get away by doing bad habits because literally most of your skills have iframes and super armor. And because there is so much DESYNC, iframes and super armor? The only viable build and playstyle in BDO is AP and kill the guy in 1 CC and within 10 SECONDS and this goes the same for ALL CLASSES no matter which class you pick in BDO.
In Vindictus, if I wanted to play a memorization + endurance game where I need to know which smash comes next after the first [space > right click] and the next ones, I'll play Hurk. If I want to test my reaction time to the fullest, I'll play Spear Lann. BDO has NO VARIETY in terms of COMBAT. And there is almost no counter argument to that. The Farmville Part (where the variety is "how you make money") is the only thing BDO has going for it and that got boring.
There is no sustain damage meta in PvP where people die within a reasonable amount of time at a minimum of 30 seconds and maximum 5 minutes.
And World Bosses compared to Vindictus bosses? They're braindead easy, no joke. My 100 AP 100 DP Valkyrie could probably do Kutum and never die for if I was half awake, for example and that's with absolute trash gear.
You can say that BDO is a PvP game and Vindictus is a PvE game, and are two different games, sure. But it doesn't change how "bad play" is most of the time never punished in BDO and that PvP is almost a socialist environment where even the "worst type of player" can succeed due to how BDO is a medium skill-floor low skill ceiling game. You play bad in Vindictus, bosses destroy you.
The thing is, BDO has figured out that easier game = more players = more money. This mainly applies to MMOs.
Think of all the people who quit vindi because "leveling is too hard" "bosses are too hard" "dodging is too hard". What do they want to play? Games like BDO. Where do they spend their money? Same.
Players in MMOs always grativate towards the easiest option. Want to get gems? Zecallion. Succubus queen/Blood lord reborn? "Too hard" "Ceebs".
Event shop ancient tokens? 2x roch raids. People with +15s were refusing to touch s3 or s2 raids. Why? Roch is easier. "Ceebs". Etc.
Vindi too hard? Easier for them to download and play another game like BDO rather than get better.
I am tired of talking to newbies who get to level 6 then quit beacuse leveling is "too hard". I grew up playing games like ragnarok online that were rage inducing at how slow leveling is, and seeing modern MMO players complain about leveling in vindi makes me feel old and think they are spoilt.
If you look at hard games like dark souls, they are popular because they are single player games. If they were MMOs, they would be like vindi : ghost towns. Why? "too hard" "ceebs" "bdo is better".
People do not come back from other games, not on any long term basis. Look at Neamhain. I know people with +14s and +15s who came back to try out Neamhain for a while then quit because it was too hard or "I'm bored". Look at the abomination update. Literally the same thing happened. People came back for a week or two, then went back to BDO till the next update. I know many more people who have been playing BDO for a year or more and flat out refuse to come back to Vindi to check out the updates.
truly insightful commentary about how newer games attract more players and how lazy gamers exist and, shockingly, act lazily. however, this paragraph sounds like confirmation bias (sorry)
I am tired of talking to newbies who get to level 6 then quit beacuse leveling is "too hard". I grew up playing games like ragnarok online that were rage inducing at how slow leveling is, and seeing modern MMO players complain about leveling in vindi makes me feel old and think they are spoilt.
If you look at hard games like dark souls, they are popular because they are single player games. If they were MMOs, they would be like vindi : ghost towns. Why? "too hard" "ceebs" "bdo is better".
edit: sorry to keep calling you out on your bs, but didn't players play ro despite its difficulty because it was the only mmo around at the time? i mean, even ro players took the path of least resistance when leveling up a 2nd toon or farming gold, etc.
as for dark souls, it was marketed as enjoyable for being difficult. players went in with the expectation of being rewarded by accomplishments. instead of amassing virtual currency and loot, they were amassing gamer cred. to clarify my point, when the goal is not gamer cred but more souls, like on a player's first playthrough or funding a certain build, you think players don't seek out the easiest most efficient way of farming souls? (they do) single player vs mp has nothing to do with it (what an absurd idea)
also there is a minority of players who give up on ds before finishing their first playthrough, just as there is a minority of players in vindi who strive for duoing/soloing neamhain.
tl;dr: you're not a special snowflake for liking difficult games
Enhancement
Just make the road to +10 less cancerous already. It's unbearable to use 26 PARADISE STONES to get my armor from +4 to +5. YEAH YEAH, I DID USE 26 F*CKING STONES FOR A +1, sound legit right ? Like, how can you even fail at +4, everything up to +5 should be 100%.
+6 is where the bonus starts at, this is where the gamble should start to be "risky", why the f*ck do I have to take risk at +5 which gives barely no bonuses ? This is ridiculous.
And no, changing enhancements for lv80 weapons and below is useless, you cannot do anything really concrete with a lv80 weapon anymore unless you have it at +14-15 but then there's still the lack of Crit. This is just a move for the devs to say "we hear your complaints xd" when they actually don't care. Also, when you think about it, months after, they release lv95, making lv80 even more obsolete LUL. So much for 'free' enhancement, ty guys.
I know you have to sell runes but instead of destroying the weapon take an heavy part of durability, or something, I don't know... destroying a weapon at +8 feels like a real waste.
Oh and seriously, a reset at +0 hits your a$$ MUCH MORE than destroying your weapon, again it's all about a "waste" of stats. Ok this one goes in both ways but what I mean is : a +10-11-12 weapon is "nice" enough and breaking it seems "unnecessary". Meanwhile, breaking a +8 ? Reset a +7 to +0 ? The weapon didn't even had time to get to an actual good level that the game already tells you to f*ck off, that's why people cannot play this game and are super-excited every single time a +10 coupon comes from an event. Yeah let's face it, an afk/quitter will get the +15 coupon, and the rest gets +10s.
And waiting specific events for enhancing ? Really ? This is exactly why the people play Vindictus in afk mode or don't bother anymore.
Enchant
Just need that Korean tweak already, where every pre-r7 scrolls doesn't destroy gear anymore. Also a few "cool" buffs for old scrolls, especially plate/heavy ones. At least it's not "I give def XD" and that's it, they do give 'bonuses' and even if they're not super great, that's still something...
So yeah, give us this major change and people might feel safer enchanting their stuff.
Think about it, Valor/Bloodlust is still a great suffix for the weapon, and cannot destroy your weapon. When the hit changes, you can yolo all the good basics scrolls as well -> Well-Balanced, Enthusiastic, let's account Force as well meh.. oh and Deadly too.
If you go for an optimal, balanced build, that will be half your gear done w/o even using any runes, that's IF we get the changes tho... eh.
Infusions
I know they're supposed to be super end-game, optional but come on, where is the point of getting AGI +3 after 300 element stones ? And what I'm wondering the most about is.. I often see people showing their +2 Bal/Crit infusions but, where are the +1 ones ? Getting +2 Bal/Crit is better DUH but a +1 Crit/Bal one wouldn't be so bad either, at least it let feel the player that he kinda "progressed" somehow.
I think they should remove all basics stats from infusions, but make the chance of getting a negative infusion higher to compensate that. (or else everyone gets Crit infus as well, think about it too)
as for dark souls, it was marketed as enjoyable for being difficult. players went in with the expectation of being rewarded by accomplishments. instead of amassing virtual currency and loot, they were amassing gamer cred.
Be honest : from the last decade of released games, except the Souls series, tell me a single game that was DIFFICULT to play. Question2 kinda gets a point here, people prefer easier but fancier games nowadays but that's just how the gaming market rolls now. (f.e. in Korea, mobile gaming, the MMORPG genre isn't really going well if anything)
Be honest : from the last decade of released games, except the Souls series, tell me a single game that was DIFFICULT to play. Question2 kinda gets a point here, people prefer easier but fancier games nowadays but that's just how the gaming market rolls now. (f.e. in Korea, mobile gaming, the MMORPG genre isn't really going well if anything)
you must trouble with reading comprehension or you'd realize that i agree that most gamers prefer going the easy route when they're grinding or playing a game for its story. the difference is i don't pat myself on the back for "not being lazy" (instead i pat myself on the back for not patting myself on the back).
to answer your question, ninja gaiden, anything in the fighting genre, any game that offers a "nightmare/extreme/realistic" mode especially if save scumming is not possible, touhou, titan souls (not affiliated with dark souls), and these are just the ones i know of without searching google.
The whole laziness is a stupid argument, as a once said, someone can just come back, do one dungeon, and get the rare while others work their a*ses for 50 runs and doesn't get anything.
Yeah, not playing obviously isn't gonna help but forcing yourself to do something you don't wanna do is no good either.
People should just run things they feel good with. Berbhe is nice as it gives you multiple options to farm, as those dungeons drops every s3 items so for example, I detest this maniac doctor boss, meanwhile there are easier bosses like Judge Raminoff so I can just go there to farm instead of wasting a few more minutes of farming.
Ok, there is the Deep Contamination dungeon being OP as it gives 100k gold /run but you get my point. (and kicking can be tedious unless you have a Bow Kai)
A Moment's Notice is good too, tho beating Hexad with a normal attack is obviously more annoying to do and a tad longer than kicking 7 mobs.
There are many, all the time, sometimes with very long debates, i follow bdo and blade and soul forum, last one i remember was like nexon vs kakao posted few days ago,
I had only followed the Tera forum when i played it and i hadn't seen anyone mentioning another game in a comparison. As for BDO, i only played the cbt once on the russian server (i had to clean my comp from malware after that +yay) but i didn't want to immerse in it further because yet another mmo would just take too much time from me. Blade & Soul, i've never played it. But i'm sure when i read about Dark Souls and its lore, there was no one comparing it to another game as if it was such a superior game. People mentioned other games of course but that was only in a single post.
Be honest : from the last decade of released games, except the Souls series, tell me a single game that was DIFFICULT to play. Question2 kinda gets a point here, people prefer easier but fancier games nowadays but that's just how the gaming market rolls now. (f.e. in Korea, mobile gaming, the MMORPG genre isn't really going well if anything)
Salt and Sanctuary, Hollow Knight, Ori and the Blind Forest. These can be pretty difficult.
I am tired of talking to newbies who get to level 6 then quit beacuse leveling is "too hard". I grew up playing games like ragnarok online that were rage inducing at how slow leveling is, and seeing modern MMO players complain about leveling in vindi makes me feel old and think they are spoilt.
If you look at hard games like dark souls, they are popular because they are single player games. If they were MMOs, they would be like vindi : ghost towns. Why? "too hard" "ceebs" "bdo is better".
More variety, that's all, talking about BDO, hunt sea monster, war other guilds, horse racing, trade between town and island etc etc
dayli sh*t i can choice.
Vindi is just doing the same dungeon every day, ok you can dress like a sl*t, that's more variety ofc or go naked/solo etc, but it is always the same soup everyday.
I am tired of talking to newbies who get to level 6 then quit beacuse leveling is "too hard". I grew up playing games like ragnarok online that were rage inducing at how slow leveling is, and seeing modern MMO players complain about leveling in vindi makes me feel old and think they are spoilt.
If you look at hard games like dark souls, they are popular because they are single player games. If they were MMOs, they would be like vindi : ghost towns. Why? "too hard" "ceebs" "bdo is better".
More variety, that's all, talking about BDO, hunt sea monster, war other guilds, horse racing, trade between town and island etc etc
dayli sh*t i can choice.
Vindi is just doing the same dungeon every day, ok you can dress like a sl*t, that's more variety ofc or go naked/solo etc, but it is always the same soup everyday.
Why i keep playing this game after so many years , and came back few times even without having 0 gear ,its because the game is FAST , gameplay enjoyable , and SIMPLE , ez to lvl up , ez to get gear ( upgrading is kinda btch but w/e xD ), and u dont need to do much to enjoy the game. And can easily do something even if u have small ammount of time . Vindi is a dungeon game so u dont have much variety (like in every dungeon game or most of them) ,but its entertaining, also the interraction with other ppl is easier and fun , compaired to other games where u dont talk with any1 if u dont have friends with u or till u reach higher level to meet ppl Also Vindi has FASHION and DYES which makes Vindi a great game allowing u to make ur character the way u want it , while other games give u only the choice to buy some REAL CASH outfits , because their armors and customizations are lame (BDO), or u farm/buy premade outfits , which look good but everyone can have em , nothing unique (BnS). Also Vindi is not giving u huge advantages even if u PAY , compaired to other famous games xD
BDO is pvp oriented , i couldnt care less about PvP , most of the guilds wont accept u in if u dont PvP (scrubs). PvE in BDO is boring AF ,their AI are garbage xD Also BDO eats a lot of time , grinding EXP ( which if u dont have EXP protection items, u are fked late game if u die) and do many other useless things that only Kiddos with free time "hardcore gamers" can actually do something . Even tho i kinda have enough free time , i didnt saw myself , grinding years and doing tons of useless things ,which others call variety , in order to finnaly enjoy the game , end game sht. About graphics , skills (they kinda suck bad) , envoirment , im not impressed , if gameplay is slow.
Also if u dont have friends to play with u wont probably enjoy the game or play for long , because we all know most of the ppl went on BDO with their friends, not alone , since that game makes u dependent on others.
Back on topic, RNG sux , ik , failed 25+ echos on god damn gloves, never failed so much in my whole Vindu years for a freakin item , so , i said , fk it , lets end the curse , exquisite enchant rune , and done xD And my light gear was made with that rune too fully scrolled , event runes. Also if u see u suq at enchant or enchance , farm and buy em scrolled ez.
And waiting specific events for enhancing ? Really ? This is exactly why the people play Vindictus in afk mode or don't bother anymore.
I never got people who claim that "you dont need to buy runes, just wait to get runes from an event!". I mean...this is not what new players do...new players arent going to wait till they get free runes, they either buy runes or jump ship to another game (guess which happens more often). Hop onto any MMO forum and ask them "would you wait for potentially months to get runes so that you can enhance your end game gear without risking them breaking or play another game" and see what answers give you.
Literally the only people who wait for free runes to enhance are veterans trying to get +15, most of whom fail and go back to playing BDO instead.
Edit : I just remembered another reason why the dark souls series work even though they are difficult games. Single player games are typically a upfront purchase. MMOs typically rely on continual purchases. So if someone buys dark souls and gives up because its "too hard" or "ceebs"...well the devs already got their money, who cares? There are minimal side effects from them giving up. Someone plays vindi before they spend any money because its too hard? Nexon makes a loss.
You want players to stay as long as possible, because more people = more of their friends playing. More people jumping ship to games like BDO = more players quitting to follow their friends over to BDO or because "nobody is playing this dead game anyway".
Comments
The only part that I have a hard time believing. There are still a lot of people who participate in Sieges, the only thing that feels dead nowadays are probably the grinding spots cause most people are already level 60 on their mains, just doing Red Battle Field while doing AFK things for profit. I mean it's arguable that AFK while getting money is what makes it dead, but still..
Maybe if Vindictus had a similar upgrading/enhancement system, it may not have been this dead.
And the sad part is.. none of our suggestions are going to be heard anyways so to complain about this weapons breaking on enhancing and enchanting is, sadly, pointless.
Yes, there are always lots of people logged in. Problem is that a vast majority of them are afk doing things to make money, only a small portion are actually actively playing. Sure, the open world is vast and pretty, but it's also pointlessly large. The size of the map is not as immersive as it is annoying with the lack of fast travel systems. I mean, everyone here would be complaining if you HAD to run from colhen to Rocheste because they thought it was immersive to not have a carriage.
And the combat.... it is what it is. It felt painfully repetitive regardless of the class I was playing, and just felt......clunky, with lack of a better term.
Not really worth comparing the two games too much, honestly. One is an open world farming simulator while the other is a dungeon diving farming simulator, because regardless of which you choose, there's going to be a grind.
Just pick which combat system you prefer and leave it at that. I just think vindictus system is smoother and more rewarding to skilled play
A while back it was Vindi vs Dark Souls and Monster Hunter.
Then it turned into Vindi vs "There's nothing like it".
Then in the last year it was Vindi vs BNS and BDO.
And of course throughout the ages people insisted Vindi won everytime because this is the Vindi forum and only people who particularly like the combat system with all its quirks are still here. Does it really? Ehhhh. I'm sure a big component of all of the above comparisons is Vindi is free to begin.
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Original post is indeed a dead horse though. DevCat have made their stance clear on that.
And on the other games' forums there's none of this kind of comparisons. It's only in this game that some people think like they are either superior with their skills to other games or other games are superior because it's hard to leave it or accept that it's a different game.
I had a friend who quit about 3.5 years ago after 180 dollars spent trying to double enchant his +13 level 60 pillar.
I don't think I've ever succeeded enchanting 4 times in a row.
I know for a fact I once lost 16 enhance runes just trying to go from +8 to +10. And then the weapon blows up going +11.
There are many, all the time, sometimes with very long debates, i follow bdo and blade and soul forum, last one i remember was like nexon vs kakao posted few days ago,
On AUS, there was a day when at least 4 or 5 people got an enthus ES on the same day and put them up on the MP. This is a rare scroll that drops maybe once in 3 months from hero succubus, on a server where probably less than 20 people a day were doing hero succubus. The odds of so many people getting the same scroll on the exact same day is probably astronomical when you consider the actual drop rate of the scroll (probably at 0.1% per core or something stupid).
People easily achieving extremely rare 1 in 100,000 results.
People often misunderstand/mis-apply "sample size" to results. The probability of 1 in 100k is just 1 in 100k. Sample size is not relevant. Its also not just a sample size of "one". Yea sure, if yolo a scroll and it works, OK, totally reasonable, even if the odds are low. When you fail like 10 scrolls at 40% chance each...something starts smelling fishy.
Its like walking into a casino and winning multiple jackpots from the slot machines there. I can 100% guarantee you that management will show up with security and say they want to talk to you. One jackpot? Sure, no problem, SOMEONE has to win it occasionally right? But when someone just walks in and starts getting multiple jackpots, everyone instantly becomes suspicious. Telling them that "well i got 5 jackpots but a sample size of 5 is too statistically insignificant" will not win you any prizes.
Either way the net effect of the RNG is making nexon lose money. Ask any veteran how many people they have seen quit due to the RNG. I know people who have spent more than $1000 on this game who have quit permanently and are now playing games like BDO. Nobody is benefitting from this, its like burning your own restaurant to try and collect insurance money.
Compare the server population NOW....to the server population when roch/drags was end game. The game used to have so many more players back then for a reason. Right now, as of this moment, I can think of plenty of people who refuse to play the game (note : play, not login to afk for free stuff) because "I wont get anything good anyway, why bother? I will just play [insert other game here]".
r7 scrolls are a huge problem as well, even if you do all s3 raids every single day, you aveage only 1-2 scrolls per MONTH. That includes trash scrolls like Stigma. It is nearly impossible to enchant gear unless you are prepared to do tons of farming to try and make gold to buy scrolls, or wait for a repeat of the enchant shop event.
No, no, this is so wrong it hurts.
Vindi USED to hold a monopoly. Nowadays? Not even close. Games like BDO are CLOSE ENOUGH that countless vindi players have jumped ship. Its not exactly the same, but the ones who quit think its close enough or even better.
I was just talking to a staff evie with a +15 this week who jumped ship to BDO because "its got so much more stuff to do". Ive heard people tell me that they think BDO combat is actually better because you are not limited to the "normal attack X times, right click for smash" system. Apparently its a lot more freeform or something.
When the unification events started, i had approximately 40 people online in my friend list. At least 75% of those were just logging on to afk for free stuff while they play BDO or other stuff. Once they hit 100 hours, that number dropped to an average of 15 people on weekend nights while the +2 cores, +2 raids event was on. Of which about 75% were afking for the weekend gifts while playing BDO or other stuff.
The reason why Nexon/Devcat doesnt care is because they are primarily based in Korea. Their main competitors are other korean MMOs, not BDO. Nexon NA's competitors are games like BDO, but they dont have the power to change the enhancing system or anything major, and they probably dont see the issue as long as the game turns a healthy quarterly profit anyway.
If BDO was a korean focused MMO and Nexon KR was losing tons of players to them, you might see some actual changes. But Nexon KR doesnt see a problem because most korean MMOs have the same cancerous RNG rage quit mechanisms that Vindi does and BDO isnt a huge thing in Korea apparently.
People do not come back from other games, not on any long term basis. Look at Neamhain. I know people with +14s and +15s who came back to try out Neamhain for a while then quit because it was too hard or "I'm bored". Look at the abomination update. Literally the same thing happened. People came back for a week or two, then went back to BDO till the next update. I know many more people who have been playing BDO for a year or more and flat out refuse to come back to Vindi to check out the updates.
The thing is, BDO has figured out that easier game = more players = more money. This mainly applies to MMOs.
Think of all the people who quit vindi because "leveling is too hard" "bosses are too hard" "dodging is too hard". What do they want to play? Games like BDO. Where do they spend their money? Same.
Players in MMOs always grativate towards the easiest option. Want to get gems? Zecallion. Succubus queen/Blood lord reborn? "Too hard" "Ceebs".
Event shop ancient tokens? 2x roch raids. People with +15s were refusing to touch s3 or s2 raids. Why? Roch is easier. "Ceebs". Etc.
Vindi too hard? Easier for them to download and play another game like BDO rather than get better.
I am tired of talking to newbies who get to level 6 then quit beacuse leveling is "too hard". I grew up playing games like ragnarok online that were rage inducing at how slow leveling is, and seeing modern MMO players complain about leveling in vindi makes me feel old and think they are spoilt.
If you look at hard games like dark souls, they are popular because they are single player games. If they were MMOs, they would be like vindi : ghost towns. Why? "too hard" "ceebs" "bdo is better".
truly insightful commentary about how newer games attract more players and how lazy gamers exist and, shockingly, act lazily. however, this paragraph sounds like confirmation bias (sorry)
edit: sorry to keep calling you out on your bs, but didn't players play ro despite its difficulty because it was the only mmo around at the time? i mean, even ro players took the path of least resistance when leveling up a 2nd toon or farming gold, etc.
as for dark souls, it was marketed as enjoyable for being difficult. players went in with the expectation of being rewarded by accomplishments. instead of amassing virtual currency and loot, they were amassing gamer cred. to clarify my point, when the goal is not gamer cred but more souls, like on a player's first playthrough or funding a certain build, you think players don't seek out the easiest most efficient way of farming souls? (they do) single player vs mp has nothing to do with it (what an absurd idea)
also there is a minority of players who give up on ds before finishing their first playthrough, just as there is a minority of players in vindi who strive for duoing/soloing neamhain.
tl;dr: you're not a special snowflake for liking difficult games
Enhancement
Just make the road to +10 less cancerous already. It's unbearable to use 26 PARADISE STONES to get my armor from +4 to +5. YEAH YEAH, I DID USE 26 F*CKING STONES FOR A +1, sound legit right ? Like, how can you even fail at +4, everything up to +5 should be 100%.
+6 is where the bonus starts at, this is where the gamble should start to be "risky", why the f*ck do I have to take risk at +5 which gives barely no bonuses ? This is ridiculous.
And no, changing enhancements for lv80 weapons and below is useless, you cannot do anything really concrete with a lv80 weapon anymore unless you have it at +14-15 but then there's still the lack of Crit. This is just a move for the devs to say "we hear your complaints xd" when they actually don't care. Also, when you think about it, months after, they release lv95, making lv80 even more obsolete LUL. So much for 'free' enhancement, ty guys.
I know you have to sell runes but instead of destroying the weapon take an heavy part of durability, or something, I don't know... destroying a weapon at +8 feels like a real waste.
Oh and seriously, a reset at +0 hits your a$$ MUCH MORE than destroying your weapon, again it's all about a "waste" of stats. Ok this one goes in both ways but what I mean is : a +10-11-12 weapon is "nice" enough and breaking it seems "unnecessary". Meanwhile, breaking a +8 ? Reset a +7 to +0 ? The weapon didn't even had time to get to an actual good level that the game already tells you to f*ck off, that's why people cannot play this game and are super-excited every single time a +10 coupon comes from an event. Yeah let's face it, an afk/quitter will get the +15 coupon, and the rest gets +10s.
And waiting specific events for enhancing ? Really ? This is exactly why the people play Vindictus in afk mode or don't bother anymore.
Enchant
Just need that Korean tweak already, where every pre-r7 scrolls doesn't destroy gear anymore. Also a few "cool" buffs for old scrolls, especially plate/heavy ones. At least it's not "I give def XD" and that's it, they do give 'bonuses' and even if they're not super great, that's still something...
So yeah, give us this major change and people might feel safer enchanting their stuff.
Think about it, Valor/Bloodlust is still a great suffix for the weapon, and cannot destroy your weapon. When the hit changes, you can yolo all the good basics scrolls as well -> Well-Balanced, Enthusiastic, let's account Force as well meh.. oh and Deadly too.
If you go for an optimal, balanced build, that will be half your gear done w/o even using any runes, that's IF we get the changes tho... eh.
Infusions
I know they're supposed to be super end-game, optional but come on, where is the point of getting AGI +3 after 300 element stones ? And what I'm wondering the most about is.. I often see people showing their +2 Bal/Crit infusions but, where are the +1 ones ? Getting +2 Bal/Crit is better DUH but a +1 Crit/Bal one wouldn't be so bad either, at least it let feel the player that he kinda "progressed" somehow.
I think they should remove all basics stats from infusions, but make the chance of getting a negative infusion higher to compensate that. (or else everyone gets Crit infus as well, think about it too)
My 2 cents.
Be honest : from the last decade of released games, except the Souls series, tell me a single game that was DIFFICULT to play. Question2 kinda gets a point here, people prefer easier but fancier games nowadays but that's just how the gaming market rolls now. (f.e. in Korea, mobile gaming, the MMORPG genre isn't really going well if anything)
you must trouble with reading comprehension or you'd realize that i agree that most gamers prefer going the easy route when they're grinding or playing a game for its story. the difference is i don't pat myself on the back for "not being lazy" (instead i pat myself on the back for not patting myself on the back).
to answer your question, ninja gaiden, anything in the fighting genre, any game that offers a "nightmare/extreme/realistic" mode especially if save scumming is not possible, touhou, titan souls (not affiliated with dark souls), and these are just the ones i know of without searching google.
Yeah, not playing obviously isn't gonna help but forcing yourself to do something you don't wanna do is no good either.
People should just run things they feel good with. Berbhe is nice as it gives you multiple options to farm, as those dungeons drops every s3 items so for example, I detest this maniac doctor boss, meanwhile there are easier bosses like Judge Raminoff so I can just go there to farm instead of wasting a few more minutes of farming.
Ok, there is the Deep Contamination dungeon being OP as it gives 100k gold /run but you get my point. (and kicking can be tedious unless you have a Bow Kai)
A Moment's Notice is good too, tho beating Hexad with a normal attack is obviously more annoying to do and a tad longer than kicking 7 mobs.
I had only followed the Tera forum when i played it and i hadn't seen anyone mentioning another game in a comparison. As for BDO, i only played the cbt once on the russian server (i had to clean my comp from malware after that +yay) but i didn't want to immerse in it further because yet another mmo would just take too much time from me. Blade & Soul, i've never played it. But i'm sure when i read about Dark Souls and its lore, there was no one comparing it to another game as if it was such a superior game. People mentioned other games of course but that was only in a single post.
Salt and Sanctuary, Hollow Knight, Ori and the Blind Forest. These can be pretty difficult.
More variety, that's all, talking about BDO, hunt sea monster, war other guilds, horse racing, trade between town and island etc etc
dayli sh*t i can choice.
Vindi is just doing the same dungeon every day, ok you can dress like a sl*t, that's more variety ofc
Why i keep playing this game after so many years , and came back few times even without having 0 gear ,its because the game is FAST , gameplay enjoyable , and SIMPLE , ez to lvl up , ez to get gear ( upgrading is kinda btch but w/e xD ), and u dont need to do much to enjoy the game. And can easily do something even if u have small ammount of time . Vindi is a dungeon game so u dont have much variety (like in every dungeon game or most of them) ,but its entertaining, also the interraction with other ppl is easier and fun , compaired to other games where u dont talk with any1 if u dont have friends with u or till u reach higher level to meet ppl
BDO is pvp oriented , i couldnt care less about PvP , most of the guilds wont accept u in if u dont PvP (scrubs). PvE in BDO is boring AF ,their AI are garbage xD Also BDO eats a lot of time , grinding EXP ( which if u dont have EXP protection items, u are fked late game if u die) and do many other useless things that only Kiddos with free time "hardcore gamers" can actually do something . Even tho i kinda have enough free time , i didnt saw myself , grinding years and doing tons of useless things ,which others call variety , in order to finnaly enjoy the game , end game sht. About graphics , skills (they kinda suck bad) , envoirment , im not impressed , if gameplay is slow.
Also if u dont have friends to play with u wont probably enjoy the game or play for long , because we all know most of the ppl went on BDO with their friends, not alone , since that game makes u dependent on others.
Back on topic, RNG sux , ik , failed 25+ echos on god damn gloves, never failed so much in my whole Vindu years for a freakin item , so , i said , fk it , lets end the curse , exquisite enchant rune , and done xD And my light gear was made with that rune too fully scrolled , event runes. Also if u see u suq at enchant or enchance , farm and buy em scrolled ez.
I never got people who claim that "you dont need to buy runes, just wait to get runes from an event!". I mean...this is not what new players do...new players arent going to wait till they get free runes, they either buy runes or jump ship to another game (guess which happens more often). Hop onto any MMO forum and ask them "would you wait for potentially months to get runes so that you can enhance your end game gear without risking them breaking or play another game" and see what answers give you.
Literally the only people who wait for free runes to enhance are veterans trying to get +15, most of whom fail and go back to playing BDO instead.
Edit : I just remembered another reason why the dark souls series work even though they are difficult games. Single player games are typically a upfront purchase. MMOs typically rely on continual purchases. So if someone buys dark souls and gives up because its "too hard" or "ceebs"...well the devs already got their money, who cares? There are minimal side effects from them giving up. Someone plays vindi before they spend any money because its too hard? Nexon makes a loss.
You want players to stay as long as possible, because more people = more of their friends playing. More people jumping ship to games like BDO = more players quitting to follow their friends over to BDO or because "nobody is playing this dead game anyway".
. After all those events are like free gifts . Condition - be online . It doesnt cost nothing does it ?