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When are +15 lvl 80s going to be useless?

Vindictus Rep: 1,405
Posts: 129
edited January 16, 2017 in General Discussion
With level 95 coming i am getting worried my +15 isn't going to matter anymore.
Though I was comparing weapons in the armory to mine and even mine outbeats a lvl 95, it's only until +12 lvl 95 that my +15 becomes inferior
I guess the only issue is reaching attack cap, barely making 24k right now, no way to even reach 26k w/o losing too much defense.


  • 2edgy4u2edgy4u
    Vindictus Rep: 2,915
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    Let's dispel once and for all with the fiction that anything other than the absolute best is useless.
    Let's dispel once and for all with the fiction that anything other than the absolute best is useless.
    Let's dispel once and for all with the fiction that anything other than the absolute best is useless.
    I've seen people with 25k att using a +15 lvl60, so it depends on the rest of your gear too.
    Let's dispel once and for all with the fiction that anything other than the absolute best is useless.
  • NoburoNoburo
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    If weapons still had item descriptions on them, the Dullahan ones would just say: "STOP USING OLD 15s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
  • IkarsuIkarsu
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    Posts: 765
    cap is 27,000 attack rating, but around 24,000 to 26,000 rating should be golden for social raiding. Anything above that you have to get at least a +15 90 to even come close to the 95 cap.
  • SylariusSylarius
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    Posts: 63
    Depends on your definition of "useless".

    To me any weapon that doesn't hit like a literal wet noodle is useful. But I know people that consider anything below fully capped stats borderline useless.

    The simple answer to your question, assuming you are the second type of player: it's when a +15 80 no longer allows you to cap the offensive stats you want to (crit, bal, atk) while maintaining a reasonably high speed. You can also add in defense if you want a certain threshold. (You could always Merc spam too, or as Kai it's not so important...)

    My understanding from reading the forums/listening to people discuss min-max for the 95 update is that level 95 weapons are no contest way better than level 80 weapons, I think they are like 20+ crit higher and thousands of attack higher, when the level 95 bosses' defensive stats go considerably up. However I am not fully informed on the subject as I have no intention whatsoever to min-max, so someone who is actually looking to do that may be able to give you a better answer.

    I don't think a level 80 weapon is enough to cap crit at the least in level 95 content, but I am not certain.
  • dazedgumballdazedgumball
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    I'm still using a +15 lvl 60 scythe and I can still keep up with the DPS ranking.
  • CessaCessa
    Vindictus Rep: 1,680
    Posts: 244
    -Crit matters more than damage at a certain point.

    -Having 50% crit rate and 80% of the damage cap against a boss will allow you to outdamage someone with 100% damage cap and 20% crit rate quite easily, assuming comparable survivability/skill/defense and attack speed.

    -Attack speed also plays a huge difference despite all the nonsense where people try to downplay its effectiveness in saying stupid things like "you only really need about 30 attack speed to play this character." The fact is that now every character benefits from attack speed and some benefit greatly from it. For some it's absolutely crucial like Delia or scythe Evie. It's the difference between landing 10k damage or having to stop part way and landing only 2k. And then that repeats over and over and each time you aren't able to execute an ending smash due to you being just slightly slower your damage drops that much further behind the faster Delia or scythe Evie. For others it's not as critical but it still matters greatly. The faster attack Arisha will buildup mana faster than you and where you are in Mana Blade 90% of the time she's in Mana Blade 95% of the time. Where you build up 10 stacks on chainblade Vella the faster one is already in Heart of Ice and already that much faster into the next stack of 10. I have done attack speed and frame attack checks all the way out to 80 I have not been disappointed at any point along the way. And I have watched gameplay videos of people with 80+ attack speed. If you don't believe me you can just go check those videos out and try doing their same attack patterns with your 30 attack speed or your 50. In most cases you won't succeed or you'll be dropping attacks that they were able to do.


    For now, there is nothing wrong with the right kinds of +15 level 80 weapons because you can still hit attack cap on practically all of the bosses as well as hit 120+ crit along with top tier attack speed. Unless you are crossgun Kai, you just have to get some crit infuses or so as level 80 weapons tend to cap at around 45 crit vs about 50 crit for level 90 weapons. Both will cap attack. And +15 level 80 will grant more attack speed than comparable level 90 weapon, of course. You can still funnel the extra level 90 balance into another fast enchant and swap some infusions around and they both end up being very comparable.

    Level 95 weapons will have ~15 or so crit higher base than level 90 weapons and ~20 crit higher than level 80 weapons.
    If that becomes the standard for bosses at 95 then ALL level 90 and below weapons become useless in the eyes of a person who is min/maxing at the endgame.
  • RenkotsuRenkotsu
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    This game is getting ridiculous , whatever happened to releasing new raid boss that doesn't require complete gears change to be able to even do any damage.

    I miss the old rocheste raid 'almost all of them had a specific set of weapon or armor you could craft ,they all had different stats but not enough to make every other lvl 60 set useless.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    At least they didn't pull a SWTOR and make players gear again for content that's already two to four years old +haha

    Not really looking forward to grinding out any new gear. Weapons would likely be the only thing that I go for, and I believe they're the only part of 95 gear that is a massive increase. I can't get high enough crit resist to be meaningful in S3 as is, so I doubt that it will change much with 95.
  • IkarsuIkarsu
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    Pfft, 95 armor is not even worth getting because while you get more defense, it still wouldn't matter anyway considering one slap from an unblockable takes away a fixed amount of hp anyway.

    95 weapon seems more worthwhile, but it gives armorsmiths another source of crafting to make gold... downside is we have to gather carved shards to craft 95 parts instead of legend shards, which sucks imo. As if 6 slots of my inv weren't bad enough as it is from blue legend shards.

    In before they come out as a pay 2 win box just like they did with day 1 regina. *slowly clapping*

    Though, what I'm afraid of is the whole getting new upgrade changes for the 95 weapons... though no one from KR has said anything about what 95 weapons need to upgrade.
  • RizzleRizzle
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    Short answer: +15 has never mattered.
  • KaiTheArcherKaiTheArcher
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    Posts: 28
    Rizzle wrote: »
    Short answer: +15 has never mattered.

    I doubt the +15 part was the main point, he probably meant an old weapon that he spent so much time and effort to get.

    Back to the main topic: as someone who never reach cap in any content, I'm having mixed feeling about these. While getting new stuff gonna be a new pain, it also open up new opportunities as crafter, while also allow me to do lvl90 content better due to low-mid tier lvl95 stuff. There are also many other factors to consider such as the change in enhancing restoration system, new enchants and new rule for previous enchantments, etc. One thing I do support is for dev to not release any kind of new gamble boxes, but we all know how f2p games usually are.