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Staff Evie never had iframes and she has to be as close or closer to the boss as crossgun Kai.
Amber was also complete garbage back then and useless in the majority of situations.
So how did she dodge anything at all with an almost-useless amber and no iframes?
You had to sprint spam or MA hop to reposition yourself.
Now, someone is probably going to argue that MA hop was unfair and unbalanced now.
No, it was not unfair because hop has no iframes, while crossgun Kai could basically cut off the last frames of his roll where he's vulnerable and basically remove most his vulnerable frames. Also, MA hop isn't a thing anymore because hop can be chained normally now.
Staff Evie was only one example of this as well.
Well give Kai a version of Mana Shield and we'll call it even.
Might as well take out his iframes if you want it to be "even" with him having Mana Shield.
Guys look at the bright side now gun earns an ungodly amount of SP and bow's arrows got a speed boost when flying which makes aiming a hell of a lot easier.
Staff Evie never had iframes and she has to be as close or closer to the boss as crossgun Kai.
Amber was also complete garbage back then and useless in the majority of situations.
So how did she dodge anything at all with an almost-useless amber and no iframes?
You had to sprint spam or MA hop to reposition yourself.
Now, someone is probably going to argue that MA hop was unfair and unbalanced now.
No, it was not unfair because hop has no iframes, while crossgun Kai could basically cut off the last frames of his roll where he's vulnerable and basically remove most his vulnerable frames. Also, MA hop isn't a thing anymore because hop can be chained normally now.
Staff Evie was only one example of this as well.
Might as well take out his iframes if you want it to be "even" with him having Mana Shield.
Nah. Evie gets an amazing dodge and shields, Kai gets range, a garbage dodge, and shields. That seems fair.
Well give Kai a version of Mana Shield and we'll call it even.
Give Bow kai more invul iframes like right now he gets 0.33 secs of invul per dodge would be nice if it was bumped up to say 0.50, About Gun Either after dodge have half the anamation of Spin Smash give invul or have what sylas's has for his dodge, right after you dodge the second dodge you do will be able to do faster
Ps. Nexon pls let attspeed affect SpinSmash/Rapidfire
Are there any videos of Xgun Kais soloing Neamhain? Best I could find were Korean Duo and the Xgun being the partner. If they have the same mechanics, might as well see how they play. It's a drag that there's no practice mode.
Things I've observed:
- When Neit attacks with the triple ring move, the Xgun Kai dodges slightly off from the center so that he will have enough time to dodge the upcoming overlapping ring.
- The Xgun Kai can attack the claws with Perforate and Six Shooter while they're idle (much like Kraken tentacles)
- When fighting Neamhain, he fights close to mid-range to her in order to avoid dealing with the purple circle.
While surviving is definitely a hassle, it's possible. But compared to other characters, you have to be more reactive and smart to where you should dodge.
Staff Evie never had iframes and she has to be as close or closer to the boss as crossgun Kai.
Amber was also complete garbage back then and useless in the majority of situations.
So how did she dodge anything at all with an almost-useless amber and no iframes?
You had to sprint spam or MA hop to reposition yourself.
Now, someone is probably going to argue that MA hop was unfair and unbalanced now.
No, it was not unfair because hop has no iframes, while crossgun Kai could basically cut off the last frames of his roll where he's vulnerable and basically remove most his vulnerable frames. Also, MA hop isn't a thing anymore because hop can be chained normally now.
Staff Evie was only one example of this as well.
Might as well take out his iframes if you want it to be "even" with him having Mana Shield.
Nah. Evie gets an amazing dodge and shields, Kai gets range, a garbage dodge, and shields. That seems fair.
Well give Kai a version of Mana Shield and we'll call it even.
Amazing dodge? You realize her dodge is hop, right? New amber is a block, but old amber was practically useless. If you read my post correctly, we're talking about the old staff Evie. That doesn't really even matter though because hop was and still is literally the worst dodge in this game, but you do you.
You avoided things on staff Evie by repositioning yourself.
Are there any videos of Xgun Kais soloing Neamhain? Best I could find were Korean Duo and the Xgun being the partner. If they have the same mechanics, might as well see how they play. It's a drag that there's no practice mode.
Things I've observed:
- When Neit attacks with the triple ring move, the Xgun Kai dodges slightly off from the center so that he will have enough time to dodge the upcoming overlapping ring.
- The Xgun Kai can attack the claws with Perforate and Six Shooter while they're idle (much like Kraken tentacles)
- When fighting Neamhain, he fights close to mid-range to her in order to avoid dealing with the purple circle.
While surviving is definitely a hassle, it's possible. But compared to other characters, you have to be more reactive and smart to where you should dodge.
Bolt storm and massive impact can also hit the claws as well to do damage. There are plenty of openings for neit to take bolt storms, but nemain, forget it, you're better off staying your distance and fire perfs and massive impacts when able. Since kai isn't as mobile as he used to be, openings for dual hollows are few and far between.
For the people complaining that Xgun Kai has a crap dodge without bolt-rolling, I have to wonder if you ever played old-school Spear Lann, Staff Evie, or Sword Lann. Or Fiona when like 70% of end-game was unblockable attacks. People used to do 1 hp solos on Spear Lann with NO i-frames. Back when Scythe Evie only had one blink she had a difficult time with combo attacks as well if you didn't move correctly. Positioning plays as much a role in this game as casually i-framing through attacks.
Seriously, it's really not that bad. What about attacks where Pillar Karok can't absorb them, or Vella can't cross cut them? Vella can't even appropriately chain dodges together because of slipaway, and Karok's roll doesn't have invuln. You just have to move right to get out of the way. It's not like Xgun Kai has 0.2 sec invuln, he has over half a second. "Now I can't easily dodge combo attacks" has been a problem for a lot of other characters long before this update. I can see how this would be problematic in solo play, but with the exception of Ein Lacher most people tend to party with at least one other player. If you used to rely on the bolt-roll a lot, then it'll obviously take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean the way the dodge is now is bad or insufficient.
For the people complaining that Xgun Kai has a crap dodge without bolt-rolling, I have to wonder if you ever played old-school Spear Lann, Staff Evie, or Sword Lann. Or Fiona when like 70% of end-game was unblockable attacks. People used to do 1 hp solos on Spear Lann with NO i-frames. Back when Scythe Evie only had one blink she had a difficult time with combo attacks as well if you didn't move correctly. Positioning plays as much a role in this game as casually i-framing through attacks.
Seriously, it's really not that bad. What about attacks where Pillar Karok can't absorb them, or Vella can't cross cut them? Vella can't even appropriately chain dodges together because of slipaway, and Karok's roll doesn't have invuln. You just have to move right to get out of the way. It's not like Xgun Kai has 0.2 sec invuln, he has over half a second. "Now I can't easily dodge combo attacks" has been a problem for a lot of other characters long before this update. I can see how this would be problematic in solo play, but with the exception of Ein Lacher most people tend to party with at least one other player. If you used to rely on the bolt-roll a lot, then it'll obviously take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean the way the dodge is now is bad or insufficient.
That was way before X gun was released... like 2010 Vindictus era... back when soloing was extremely difficult and you only had level 60 weapons to work with along with broken mechanics that were beyond the capabilities of the player... at times.
Though, I've been practicing with the new dodge, and turns out there is a way to reduce said delay even further by shift dashing (ctrl + w - quick press) as you finish the dodge. It isn't exactly the same as the original bolt dodge, but if it helps reduce delays, at least it's a plus for me. When I did glas Ein lacher with this trick, it reduced the amount of hits I took from 12 to 4 hits. Though, they were mistimed ones, so eh, still trying to master it.
Amazing dodge? You realize her dodge is hop, right? New amber is a block, but old amber was practically useless. If you read my post correctly, we're talking about the old staff Evie. That doesn't really even matter though because hop was and still is literally the worst dodge in this game, but you do you.
You avoided things on staff Evie by repositioning yourself.
I said Mana Shield, which is a Scythe skill, hence why I mentioned Evie's amazing dodge. You seem to have missed that. Caught up now?
But, since you're stuck on staff, give Kai amber and we'll call it even as well. You have both a dodge and an extended iframe move on Staffie. Xgun Kai has one nerfed into the floor, slow dodge now, that's it. I'd love if Kai got Staffie's kit considering that he has to stay in close to the boss for a large portion of his DPS. You do you, though.
That was way before X gun was released... like 2010 Vindictus era... back when soloing was extremely difficult and you only had level 60 weapons to work with along with broken mechanics that were beyond the capabilities of the player... at times.
Though, I've been practicing with the new dodge, and turns out there is a way to reduce said delay even further by shift dashing (ctrl + w - quick press) as you finish the dodge. It isn't exactly the same as the original bolt dodge, but if it helps reduce delays, at least it's a plus for me. When I did glas Ein lacher with this trick, it reduced the amount of hits I took from 12 to 4 hits. Though, they were mistimed ones, so eh, still trying to master it.
Actually most of the crucial changes to survivability happened in the more recent wave of revamps in the last year or two, long after Xguns release, but I digress. Point is people have made it work with far less than what Xgun has now. Even today with Sword Lann most of the times I use Nimble Dash are because I'm not familiar with the boss or I know I screwed up my positioning/timing on the first dodge. I usually use only Slip Dash (same i-frames as xgun roll, probably worse distance) to save stamina and get some more uptime on attacks. Back when I was leveling my Xgun for the level up events I made it through just fine never using bolt-roll for anything other than getting through maps quicker. The majority of attacks in the game can be dodged with only one dodge, and some positioning.
Admittedly, I don't really see why such a change was "necessary," especially considering stuff like Delia's infinite twirl and Evie's rapid blink chains still exist, but what I'm getting at is that a lot of people seem to be blowing it out of proportion saying they're going to delete their Kai or he's useless or whatever, which is far from the case. If anyone should be complaining about a crappy dodge it's bow Kai, lol.
For the people complaining that Xgun Kai has a crap dodge without bolt-rolling, I have to wonder if you ever played old-school Spear Lann, Staff Evie, or Sword Lann. Or Fiona when like 70% of end-game was unblockable attacks. People used to do 1 hp solos on Spear Lann with NO i-frames. Back when Scythe Evie only had one blink she had a difficult time with combo attacks as well if you didn't move correctly. Positioning plays as much a role in this game as casually i-framing through attacks.
Seriously, it's really not that bad. What about attacks where Pillar Karok can't absorb them, or Vella can't cross cut them? Vella can't even appropriately chain dodges together because of slipaway, and Karok's roll doesn't have invuln. You just have to move right to get out of the way. It's not like Xgun Kai has 0.2 sec invuln, he has over half a second. "Now I can't easily dodge combo attacks" has been a problem for a lot of other characters long before this update. I can see how this would be problematic in solo play, but with the exception of Ein Lacher most people tend to party with at least one other player. If you used to rely on the bolt-roll a lot, then it'll obviously take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean the way the dodge is now is bad or insufficient.
This is not the past, we are in the now alot as changed Bosses have more complix move sets. Sword lann as a second dodge, Spear lann rolls faster then gun and as more distince for his rolls, Staff evie Mana Shields/Amber and with her dodge and as a backup one. With guns new dodge no matter how good you are you will get hit, so many bosses now have attacks/combos that hit more then once and not like gun can get out of the way like every other char, hes basicy a snale on the ground. My Point is Every other char as something as a backup, all gun had was his bolt rolling now with that gone his survivably went down 10 fold, Unjustified Nerf to his dodge he should a something added now like a said before in this thread, either half of the spin smash anamation give invul or have what sylas as for his dodge, after the first dodge you do the second one can be done alot faster. Also Spinsmash would be nicer if it was affected by attspeed.
That was way before X gun was released... like 2010 Vindictus era... back when soloing was extremely difficult and you only had level 60 weapons to work with along with broken mechanics that were beyond the capabilities of the player... at times.
Though, I've been practicing with the new dodge, and turns out there is a way to reduce said delay even further by shift dashing (ctrl + w - quick press) as you finish the dodge. It isn't exactly the same as the original bolt dodge, but if it helps reduce delays, at least it's a plus for me. When I did glas Ein lacher with this trick, it reduced the amount of hits I took from 12 to 4 hits. Though, they were mistimed ones, so eh, still trying to master it.
Actually most of the crucial changes to survivability happened in the more recent wave of revamps in the last year or two, long after Xguns release, but I digress. Point is people have made it work with far less than what Xgun has now. Even today with Sword Lann most of the times I use Nimble Dash are because I'm not familiar with the boss or I know I screwed up my positioning/timing on the first dodge. I usually use only Slip Dash (same i-frames as xgun roll, probably worse distance) to save stamina and get some more uptime on attacks. Back when I was leveling my Xgun for the level up events I made it through just fine never using bolt-roll for anything other than getting through maps quicker. The majority of attacks in the game can be dodged with only one dodge, and some positioning.
Admittedly, I don't really see why such a change was "necessary," especially considering stuff like Delia's infinite twirl and Evie's rapid blink chains still exist, but what I'm getting at is that a lot of people seem to be blowing it out of proportion saying they're going to delete their Kai or he's useless or whatever, which is far from the case. If anyone should be complaining about a crappy dodge it's bow Kai, lol.
hmm true, but matter of it is that X gun used to catch up to said classes now, but since the nerf, we're biting the dust again due to mobility loss. As stated before, I'm still practicing this new trick with the Nerfed kai's dodge, and once I master it, it will be close to the original, but with a bit less distance. My regular sprint runs are about 1-2 minutes behind my original roll runs with farming, so that's a little digression there. The only reason why I blew up the first time around is because the wording on the notes made absolutely no sense what-so-ever when a decreased delay means you can dodge more often in that period of time, not less. HAD they say that it had been an increased delay, or say that the "roll clipping ended up being a bug that had needed fixes", then I would have instead adapted to the new "nerf" and probably more than likely master how it works and continue about my normal business. I don't like how they Turn left cheek saying one thing and then doing another that ends up crippling the capabilities of said class. I don't like how DERPCAT covers everything u4p as far as glitches and issues goes for us NA folk and then wonder why most of us stop supporting the game and end up quitting. It's all about loyalty and that goes both ways.
As for the other dodging mechanics, I appreciate cleaning that up for me. I played a bit of the other classes, but I gave up on them subsequently because I get bored playing a melee role. That along with having a HUGE dependence on the speed stat and having a +15 just to do decent damage.
Give him a stylin' double or triple dodge like what cestus Karok got in his revamp to replace tab weaving. First dodge would be gun's roll and second dodge would be a baseball slide like bow's dodge. Bam, you now have an easy to use multi-part dodge that can handle ANY boss pattern as long as you approach it properly and don't spam dodge like an idiot.
For the people complaining that Xgun Kai has a crap dodge without bolt-rolling, I have to wonder if you ever played old-school Spear Lann, Staff Evie, or Sword Lann. Or Fiona when like 70% of end-game was unblockable attacks. People used to do 1 hp solos on Spear Lann with NO i-frames. Back when Scythe Evie only had one blink she had a difficult time with combo attacks as well if you didn't move correctly. Positioning plays as much a role in this game as casually i-framing through attacks.
Seriously, it's really not that bad. What about attacks where Pillar Karok can't absorb them, or Vella can't cross cut them? Vella can't even appropriately chain dodges together because of slipaway, and Karok's roll doesn't have invuln. You just have to move right to get out of the way. It's not like Xgun Kai has 0.2 sec invuln, he has over half a second. "Now I can't easily dodge combo attacks" has been a problem for a lot of other characters long before this update. I can see how this would be problematic in solo play, but with the exception of Ein Lacher most people tend to party with at least one other player. If you used to rely on the bolt-roll a lot, then it'll obviously take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean the way the dodge is now is bad or insufficient.
That was then, this is now. Those classes were revamped. Spear lann's dodge is now .79 sec iframes and spammable. Scythe evie has a fkin ungodly dodge that sends her across the map and ahe can do it twice. Also neamhain and some s3 are far harder than any of the older s1 bosses. U cant even make a comparison like this
Some of the arguments here, I don't get it. Comparing Bolt dodge with 1hp spear lann solos, nobody wants to play like a wuss in a party lol.
Dodging some multi hits when you're in close range (which you should be for hollow/spin smash) is way harder now, Keaghan's 4 swings is one example where if you don't bolt roll you will eventually get hit, something that you could previously dodge with 100% consistency if you had bolt roll available.
S1 glas you should run to the left and dodge to the right after the overhead swing, right before the sideways swing (for his two swing combo), whoever brought that up idr.
Rip beloved bolt dodge. I know I'll have to play like a coward in many battles now knowing bolt dodge isn't available. Personally think removing it was a bad change since it being available is a large part of why I could always play in melee range/dps well since I was using xgun's close range skills on cooldown.
Yea, "you've never played old-school spear lann" is a terrible argument. Hell, even I at some point hated my spear lann from 4 years ago, because my scythe evie friend kept out-damaging me in Colhen in Flames hero mode, even though her weapon rank was 1 below mine (+13 vs +14) and fury infusion gave you about 1k atk boost, and a 1k boost for hero modes at that time often meant a 15-20% damage boost.
There isnt one good reason why guns dodge should be nerfed simple as that, doesnt matter on other classes we are talking about Crossgun kai only and he needed that bolt roll another bad move on nexon, Love how nothing changes even after over 4 years all the salt from(Evie/lann) still the same.
Kommentare
Might as well take out his iframes if you want it to be "even" with him having Mana Shield.
Nah. Evie gets an amazing dodge and shields, Kai gets range, a garbage dodge, and shields. That seems fair.
Well give Kai a version of Mana Shield and we'll call it even.
Ps. Nexon pls let attspeed affect SpinSmash/Rapidfire
Things I've observed:
- When Neit attacks with the triple ring move, the Xgun Kai dodges slightly off from the center so that he will have enough time to dodge the upcoming overlapping ring.
- The Xgun Kai can attack the claws with Perforate and Six Shooter while they're idle (much like Kraken tentacles)
- When fighting Neamhain, he fights close to mid-range to her in order to avoid dealing with the purple circle.
While surviving is definitely a hassle, it's possible. But compared to other characters, you have to be more reactive and smart to where you should dodge.
Amazing dodge? You realize her dodge is hop, right? New amber is a block, but old amber was practically useless. If you read my post correctly, we're talking about the old staff Evie. That doesn't really even matter though because hop was and still is literally the worst dodge in this game, but you do you.
You avoided things on staff Evie by repositioning yourself.
Bolt storm and massive impact can also hit the claws as well to do damage. There are plenty of openings for neit to take bolt storms, but nemain, forget it, you're better off staying your distance and fire perfs and massive impacts when able. Since kai isn't as mobile as he used to be, openings for dual hollows are few and far between.
Seriously, it's really not that bad. What about attacks where Pillar Karok can't absorb them, or Vella can't cross cut them? Vella can't even appropriately chain dodges together because of slipaway, and Karok's roll doesn't have invuln. You just have to move right to get out of the way. It's not like Xgun Kai has 0.2 sec invuln, he has over half a second. "Now I can't easily dodge combo attacks" has been a problem for a lot of other characters long before this update. I can see how this would be problematic in solo play, but with the exception of Ein Lacher most people tend to party with at least one other player. If you used to rely on the bolt-roll a lot, then it'll obviously take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean the way the dodge is now is bad or insufficient.
That was way before X gun was released... like 2010 Vindictus era... back when soloing was extremely difficult and you only had level 60 weapons to work with along with broken mechanics that were beyond the capabilities of the player... at times.
Though, I've been practicing with the new dodge, and turns out there is a way to reduce said delay even further by shift dashing (ctrl + w - quick press) as you finish the dodge. It isn't exactly the same as the original bolt dodge, but if it helps reduce delays, at least it's a plus for me. When I did glas Ein lacher with this trick, it reduced the amount of hits I took from 12 to 4 hits. Though, they were mistimed ones, so eh, still trying to master it.
I said Mana Shield, which is a Scythe skill, hence why I mentioned Evie's amazing dodge. You seem to have missed that. Caught up now?
But, since you're stuck on staff, give Kai amber and we'll call it even as well. You have both a dodge and an extended iframe move on Staffie. Xgun Kai has one nerfed into the floor, slow dodge now, that's it. I'd love if Kai got Staffie's kit considering that he has to stay in close to the boss for a large portion of his DPS. You do you, though.
Actually most of the crucial changes to survivability happened in the more recent wave of revamps in the last year or two, long after Xguns release, but I digress. Point is people have made it work with far less than what Xgun has now. Even today with Sword Lann most of the times I use Nimble Dash are because I'm not familiar with the boss or I know I screwed up my positioning/timing on the first dodge. I usually use only Slip Dash (same i-frames as xgun roll, probably worse distance) to save stamina and get some more uptime on attacks. Back when I was leveling my Xgun for the level up events I made it through just fine never using bolt-roll for anything other than getting through maps quicker. The majority of attacks in the game can be dodged with only one dodge, and some positioning.
Admittedly, I don't really see why such a change was "necessary," especially considering stuff like Delia's infinite twirl and Evie's rapid blink chains still exist, but what I'm getting at is that a lot of people seem to be blowing it out of proportion saying they're going to delete their Kai or he's useless or whatever, which is far from the case. If anyone should be complaining about a crappy dodge it's bow Kai, lol.
This is not the past, we are in the now alot as changed Bosses have more complix move sets. Sword lann as a second dodge, Spear lann rolls faster then gun and as more distince for his rolls, Staff evie Mana Shields/Amber and with her dodge and as a backup one. With guns new dodge no matter how good you are you will get hit, so many bosses now have attacks/combos that hit more then once and not like gun can get out of the way like every other char, hes basicy a snale on the ground. My Point is Every other char as something as a backup, all gun had was his bolt rolling now with that gone his survivably went down 10 fold, Unjustified Nerf to his dodge he should a something added now like a said before in this thread, either half of the spin smash anamation give invul or have what sylas as for his dodge, after the first dodge you do the second one can be done alot faster. Also Spinsmash would be nicer if it was affected by attspeed.
Well heck, give Kai Shields and Amber then.
hmm true, but matter of it is that X gun used to catch up to said classes now, but since the nerf, we're biting the dust again due to mobility loss. As stated before, I'm still practicing this new trick with the Nerfed kai's dodge, and once I master it, it will be close to the original, but with a bit less distance. My regular sprint runs are about 1-2 minutes behind my original roll runs with farming, so that's a little digression there. The only reason why I blew up the first time around is because the wording on the notes made absolutely no sense what-so-ever when a decreased delay means you can dodge more often in that period of time, not less. HAD they say that it had been an increased delay, or say that the "roll clipping ended up being a bug that had needed fixes", then I would have instead adapted to the new "nerf" and probably more than likely master how it works and continue about my normal business. I don't like how they Turn left cheek saying one thing and then doing another that ends up crippling the capabilities of said class. I don't like how DERPCAT covers everything u4p as far as glitches and issues goes for us NA folk and then wonder why most of us stop supporting the game and end up quitting. It's all about loyalty and that goes both ways.
As for the other dodging mechanics, I appreciate cleaning that up for me. I played a bit of the other classes, but I gave up on them subsequently because I get bored playing a melee role. That along with having a HUGE dependence on the speed stat and having a +15 just to do decent damage.
That was then, this is now. Those classes were revamped. Spear lann's dodge is now .79 sec iframes and spammable. Scythe evie has a fkin ungodly dodge that sends her across the map and ahe can do it twice. Also neamhain and some s3 are far harder than any of the older s1 bosses. U cant even make a comparison like this
Dodging some multi hits when you're in close range (which you should be for hollow/spin smash) is way harder now, Keaghan's 4 swings is one example where if you don't bolt roll you will eventually get hit, something that you could previously dodge with 100% consistency if you had bolt roll available.
S1 glas you should run to the left and dodge to the right after the overhead swing, right before the sideways swing (for his two swing combo), whoever brought that up idr.
Rip beloved bolt dodge. I know I'll have to play like a coward in many battles now knowing bolt dodge isn't available. Personally think removing it was a bad change since it being available is a large part of why I could always play in melee range/dps well since I was using xgun's close range skills on cooldown.