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All this hate and salt for kai. He is still really strong, this dodge mainly fked him over for neamhain. What I really dont understand is why scythe evie continues to go untouched. She can blink from one side of the universe to the other side within a second or so on top of her IR 10% spd buff and mana shield. Kai has no type of block or counter mechanic. The dodge bolt rolling was op, but just like with sword lann, they nerfed it way too much. They shud have made it in between, now its really slow
Regardless still gonna try to master the new dodge and git gud to do neamhain. One good thing bout this, nobody can complain that kai is piss easy or baby mode anymore since his only defensive mechanic was essentially nerfed by 50%+ in terms of speed
Scythe evie isnt even tier 1 DPS anymore. Arisha, Cestus Karok, both Kais, both Vellas and Staff evies outdps her in general. Not counting stuff like Spear lann on sandbags as its pretty situational and s3 has no sandbags for melee anyway (you can't hit braha with melee attacks most of the time, you have to wait till he starts attacking).
Almost every s3 boss is anti-melee as they spam 360 degree AOE multi hit combos and/or have mechanics that are designed to be anti-melee :
-Forcing melee characters to run back to white grass in Regina while ranged can still DPS from white grass, charge spells, etc
-Braha being unhittable by melee most of the time
-Glas spamming his AOE combos and standing in the middle of blue pools
-Eochaid spamming AOE combos in both forms
-Abo spamming AOE combos + its harder for melee characters to get to his legs in time
What most people seem to misunderstand is that Xgun Kai is exclusively long range. He is not a Sniper, he has to get close to: use Hollow Shot, land all 6 arrows from Six Shooter, and to utilize Spin Smash. He will lose a lot of his DPS if he doesn't get close. The issue is that his only means of safety is his roll.
I agree his roll before was OP as you can constantly almost always have invul frames, but without this "trick", he now has issues with:
- Chasing bosses. Dodging is his only way of mobility. Spin Smash does give you little more distance but leaves you wide open.
- Multi-hit combos from bosses (Ex: Lugh's spin attack where he phases in and out). As the recovery time from rolling is not too forgiving.
- Large AoE/Unblockables (Ex: Eochaid's targeted jump or Glas' last smash). When you dodge through or away from an attack, but are still within the hit box. this is a similar issue to what Sword Lanns have.
What I'm saying is that most characters have an answer to these. Imagine playing Evie without Flying Sparrow or Double Blink, Sylas without Vision Dash, Arisha without Diffusion Warp, Fiona without Shield Deflect, Karok without Abosrb Shock. Or even Bow Kai without Grapple Dodge. Almost every other character has a something extra to let them escape or help them survive. While Xgun Kai just has this derpy roll.
Of course I know this post will unlikely change his roll mechanics, but I hope it at least changes how other players perceive Xgun Kai.
What I'm curious about now is:
- How are Xgun Kai players adapting to this? I've heard from Zelov that now he relies on the movement speed buff from Hunting Party to position himself correctly.
- Are there any changes to Xgun kai in Vindictus KR (Mabinogi Heroes)? So that we can hope for change.
- To make a Bow or Unbind all my gear and main something else?
Thank you someone who actually understands along with arrow95. To answer your question, i am being incredibly careful with my dodge now and tryna trreat him like sw vella except with xcut. Hunting party is something i 99% of the time will use in any scenario so its definitely useful for movement and even dodging purposes. Currently it looks like no change will be made but then again hurk got changed and then changed back to normal so there is hope. Please do not unbind all your gear. U can main bow alongside gun (i use both) and they are both very fun. Gun is still strong its just gonna take us a bit of time to get used to it
I'm adapting but I still have the roll glitch installed in my system and I make mistakes. Solo will be harder and I feel bad for all the poor souls out there who did not get Golden God title in Ein Lacher before this as it will be much harder now. Neamhain fks me up bad now haha
At least some peeps are giving me hope of coming back and adapting to the new dodge. I'm gonna take a few days off from raiding, and focus on just doing bingo so I can get used to it. Though, it just sucks now that perfect dodges can still mean taking damage because as soon as said feet touch the ground, the invulnerable frame area ends. Even F1 dodges can still get you hit if you're lagging or any sort like that.
As question 2 stated, and I stated earlier, this isn't about Kai hate, it's about Ranged Classes vs Close Combat classes. Ranged classes just plain and simple have it easier in delivering their DPS than close combat characters. Ranged also have cheaper gearing since AttSpd isn't a priority, again Because they are ranged and basically don't have to fit in combos between boss attack patterns (proof: every kai basically has immoral Spirited on weapon) .
With the inclusion of guns being the norm for 2nd weapons from this point on, they really need to start designing bosses with close combat and ranged attack phases to balance out character dps, OR they need to make dodge/block mechanics on ranged characters really bad to compensate. It seems, so far, that they are going with Option 2. Now, you could argue this isn't the correct way to balance out ranged vs close combat dps, but it's definetely the fastest and easiest way to do it.
I did some of the harder einlachers on a CG kai for the hell of it one day and didn't remember about bolt rolling till I was done with Keaghan. Honestly I didn't have any trouble without it and still had a hell of a lot easier of a time than the other 5 characters I've gotten golden god on.
heh heh I used to play spear lann 4 years ago before I quit after vella came out, so I know what it felt like to have no invulnerability and only .20 seconds of invulnerability. Those days were when playing as a spear lann meant you were either a phoenix feathers sinkhole, or had uber gear. Anyways, I would rather have only .43 sec and shorter delay between rolls than .63 sec and longer delay which makes trying to dodge combo attacks sometimes very iffy. That is how I feel about lann also. They buffed his iframes when really they should've just buffed his mobility by giving slip dash/roll more speed, or range, or shorter delay. This would be much better because lann's mobility is garbage, especially for a high-risk melee class, and my suggestion would reward skill with more mobility, and the farming grind would feel less of a chore.
Hmm, how about allowing players to modify their invulnerability techniques by allowing them to balance out their iframes-mobility themselves within certain limits? It would allow for more gameplay variety, and would just be more fun in general. Kinda like how kai players individually have different preferred ranks for their Reload skill.
Is this the actual linnard or that east imposter :0
There's an imposter? Anyway, I am west and used to associate with people like Lutiy (he left the game shortly after I did), and Beyak and I had a lot of fun trying to 1hp and speed solo sandbaggy-ish bosses. We uploaded a few videos.
Here's my beloved siglint:
I enjoyed the bombing mechanic. Back then, if you screwed up on the bombing, you're dead. No iframes!
These days I've been playing twin swords and Xgun. I love the Xgun mechanic, but I'm somewhat dissatisfied by sword lann's lack of mobility and weapon range. S3's unslippable attacks makes you wonder what's the point of playing swords when even xgun and spears' rolls are so often superior dodges. Try dodging Mad Willy Flint's (I know he's not s3) 5 consecutive tornadoes with sword lann. I figured out how to do it consistently, but with xgun or spears, you can just circle around him easily.
Anyways, I'm not too upset about Kai's fix, but I do miss those bolt rolls. Again, I wouldn't mind giving up a couple iframes to have those bolt rolls back.
For sword lann, I think either adding a third slip to his current double-slips, or significantly decreasing the delay between his second slip and the next initial slip dash would make him more enjoyable and worthy of a short-range melee class in terms of mobility, even if it means sacrificing a couple iframes.
S3 bosses are range friendly but s2 bosses are mostly very melee friendly. Eochaid favors melee classes like hurk and spr lann and arisha. Lugh is melee friendly for vella, hurk, lann and arisha, (kai actually suffers there due to damage lost from perforate).
Quite frankly, as pple stated, kai needs to still get up close and personal. The gear and stat req for kai as opposed to other char is besides the point, right now we are talking mainly bout dodging mechanics and avoiding attacks. Becuz if u really want to get technical about it then that theoretically means at min/max stats kai isnt as good compared to other classes like scythe evie who becomes a monster when she has her spd up to 110-120+ due to paw and infinite insane reaper. Kai doesnt benefit from spd much after a certain threshold.
I did some of the harder einlachers on a CG kai for the hell of it one day and didn't remember about bolt rolling till I was done with Keaghan. Honestly I didn't have any trouble without it and still had a hell of a lot easier of a time than the other 5 characters I've gotten golden god on.
So when u dodged u never left clicked after each dodge? Was the spacing/delay of the dodges slightly worse than pre revamp kai? And which runs did you do? There are some bosses like s1 glas that kai just inherently has a harder time than another class like vella, hurk and fifi. I understand some raids kai does hve an advantage in but in others, melee/counter classes hve a mich easier time.
All this hate and salt for kai. He is still really strong, this dodge mainly fked him over for neamhain. What I really dont understand is why scythe evie continues to go untouched. She can blink from one side of the universe to the other side within a second or so on top of her IR 10% spd buff and mana shield. Kai has no type of block or counter mechanic. The dodge bolt rolling was op, but just like with sword lann, they nerfed it way too much. They shud have made it in between, now its really slow
Regardless still gonna try to master the new dodge and git gud to do neamhain. One good thing bout this, nobody can complain that kai is piss easy or baby mode anymore since his only defensive mechanic was essentially nerfed by 50%+ in terms of speed
Scythe evie isnt even tier 1 DPS anymore. Arisha, Cestus Karok, both Kais, both Vellas and Staff evies outdps her in general. Not counting stuff like Spear lann on sandbags as its pretty situational and s3 has no sandbags for melee anyway (you can't hit braha with melee attacks most of the time, you have to wait till he starts attacking).
Almost every s3 boss is anti-melee as they spam 360 degree AOE multi hit combos and/or have mechanics that are designed to be anti-melee :
-Forcing melee characters to run back to white grass in Regina while ranged can still DPS from white grass, charge spells, etc
-Braha being unhittable by melee most of the time
-Glas spamming his AOE combos and standing in the middle of blue pools
-Eochaid spamming AOE combos in both forms
-Abo spamming AOE combos + its harder for melee characters to get to his legs in time
This is so wrong, first of all after scythe evie revamp, at one point did she ever get weaker? Second of all, scythe evie is most definitely one of the strongest characters right now. When she is min/maxed her damage output is absurd. Her dodge is amazing and mana shield is an extra buffer. Previously mana shield was designed specifically for evie becuz her gear did not allow her to gain much def. now she can not only hve same amount of def as anyone else but also maintain her mana shield
ITT: Kais complaining about bolt roll being gone when it does not affect anything other than their travel time.
Your Half right, it affects the travel time yes, but also when we need to dodge attacks or even undodgeable attacks we can move out of the way with bolt roll
With this new dodge hes very slow pretty much like bow kai now, with the dodge now you will get hit no matter how hard you try, like for Ex. havans 4 attack
combo not super fast, but Bow kai and the old dodge could invul each one if timed right now with this nerfed dodge impossable, also with gun kai he is pretty much face to face with a boss with the dodge hes Survivability went down 10 fold
People so easyly jump on the Hate kai bandwagon without knowing anything
So now that they have a dodge that is similar to lann's and people are still complaining? Yeah you pull agro more but that balances for the fact you're out of the fight for 70% if not more of the raid basically. There is always a way to dodge or move out of an attacks way as well so learn it. Idk where you get xgun is face to face with a boss tbh, he avoids a lot of attacks simply because he is far enough away. I have played xgun before and played a good bit of him. Too brain dead and easy, not my style. Why I haven't played him for a while now but these changes are perfectly fine imo. Just because you main an easy character (and it is not the hardest or close to a hard char to play) doesn't mean you have to get all defensive about it or say it's hate. Simple fact is, kai is not hard to do a lot of dmg with cheaper gear than other chars, as well as less risk and down time from dodging. All they changed now was an exploit that shouldn't have been in the game in the first place.
Thats Where your Wrong but am pretty sure your the type of a person who wont listen to anyone but your self, anyway 'There is always a way to dodge or move out of an attacks way as well so learn it.' Untrue with this new dodge it wont happen and theres only so much a Spin Smash can do if you want that extra distince, he really does need his bolt roll dodge His Survivabilty is trash now, beacuse of Hollow shot/6shooter Gun is face to face like any other class even if you dont like it.
About pvp it is mostly fine from the most part, just gets a bad rap takes time to learn beacuse it is different from pve, but people try it, get butt hurt then quit and say its trash
So his new dodge made him like other chars dodge, oh no. Yeah there is always a spot or way to move/dodge a move. I have yet to find something that i can't dodge so to speak in this game. The new raids attacks does not cover the entire map either. Those attacks aren't really face to face either, you get closer but damn you got closer for a second at most. Congrats. My point was he'll never be as close as a melee char all game that has a similar dodge, and has had these problems well before kai. Like I said they fixed an exploit, not meant to be in the game. Still doesn't change the fact kai is one of the cheapest and easiest characters to do the most damage with. I've done plenty of the ein lacher on my kai and it is by no means hard to solo fights either. I don't hate kai either, I had fun on my kai for a while but he gets super boring to me because he's not that hard and doesn't suit my style because he's not really in the action a lot. I don't like people trying to make it out as if he's a hard character to play and do well at compared to others that are clearly harder.
ITT: Kais complaining about bolt roll being gone when it does not affect anything other than their travel time.
Your Half right, it affects the travel time yes, but also when we need to dodge attacks or even undodgeable attacks we can move out of the way with bolt roll
With this new dodge hes very slow pretty much like bow kai now, with the dodge now you will get hit no matter how hard you try, like for Ex. havans 4 attack
combo not super fast, but Bow kai and the old dodge could invul each one if timed right now with this nerfed dodge impossable, also with gun kai he is pretty much face to face with a boss with the dodge hes Survivability went down 10 fold
People so easyly jump on the Hate kai bandwagon without knowing anything
So now that they have a dodge that is similar to lann's and people are still complaining? Yeah you pull agro more but that balances for the fact you're out of the fight for 70% if not more of the raid basically. There is always a way to dodge or move out of an attacks way as well so learn it. Idk where you get xgun is face to face with a boss tbh, he avoids a lot of attacks simply because he is far enough away. I have played xgun before and played a good bit of him. Too brain dead and easy, not my style. Why I haven't played him for a while now but these changes are perfectly fine imo. Just because you main an easy character (and it is not the hardest or close to a hard char to play) doesn't mean you have to get all defensive about it or say it's hate. Simple fact is, kai is not hard to do a lot of dmg with cheaper gear than other chars, as well as less risk and down time from dodging. All they changed now was an exploit that shouldn't have been in the game in the first place.
Thats Where your Wrong but am pretty sure your the type of a person who wont listen to anyone but your self, anyway 'There is always a way to dodge or move out of an attacks way as well so learn it.' Untrue with this new dodge it wont happen and theres only so much a Spin Smash can do if you want that extra distince, he really does need his bolt roll dodge His Survivabilty is trash now, beacuse of Hollow shot/6shooter Gun is face to face like any other class even if you dont like it.
About pvp it is mostly fine from the most part, just gets a bad rap takes time to learn beacuse it is different from pve, but people try it, get butt hurt then quit and say its trash
So his new dodge made him like other chars dodge, oh no. Yeah there is always a spot or way to move/dodge a move. I have yet to find something that i can't dodge so to speak in this game. The new raids attacks does not cover the entire map either. Those attacks aren't really face to face either, you get closer but damn you got closer for a second at most. Congrats. My point was he'll never be as close as a melee char all game that has a similar dodge, and has had these problems well before kai. Like I said they fixed an exploit, not meant to be in the game. Still doesn't change the fact kai is one of the cheapest and easiest characters to do the most damage with. I've done plenty of the ein lacher on my kai and it is by no means hard to solo fights either. I don't hate kai either, I had fun on my kai for a while but he gets super boring to me because he's not that hard and doesn't suit my style because he's not really in the action a lot. I don't like people trying to make it out as if he's a hard character to play and do well at compared to others that are clearly harder.
Nobody is saying kai is hard. On the contrary, alot of pple keep saying he is piss easy and baby mode lol. The main issue is that the change in dodge was substantial, ofc if any class lost access to or got their defensive mech nerfed they would be upset. Doesnt matter the class, anyone wud get disapppinted if their class got shafted. Plenty of staff evies were complainin bout her dodge nerfs, which was rightfully so. Its mainly the community hating on kai constantly cuz he is ranged and doesnt require as much gear. Still doesnt chhange the fact that the dodge was excessive and didnt hve to be that debilitating. As i said this already a few times, nerf was necessry to his dodge but not by that much. We will adjust eventually but it still sucks alot
ITT: Kais complaining about bolt roll being gone when it does not affect anything other than their travel time.
Your Half right, it affects the travel time yes, but also when we need to dodge attacks or even undodgeable attacks we can move out of the way with bolt roll
With this new dodge hes very slow pretty much like bow kai now, with the dodge now you will get hit no matter how hard you try, like for Ex. havans 4 attack
combo not super fast, but Bow kai and the old dodge could invul each one if timed right now with this nerfed dodge impossable, also with gun kai he is pretty much face to face with a boss with the dodge hes Survivability went down 10 fold
People so easyly jump on the Hate kai bandwagon without knowing anything
So now that they have a dodge that is similar to lann's and people are still complaining? Yeah you pull agro more but that balances for the fact you're out of the fight for 70% if not more of the raid basically. There is always a way to dodge or move out of an attacks way as well so learn it. Idk where you get xgun is face to face with a boss tbh, he avoids a lot of attacks simply because he is far enough away. I have played xgun before and played a good bit of him. Too brain dead and easy, not my style. Why I haven't played him for a while now but these changes are perfectly fine imo. Just because you main an easy character (and it is not the hardest or close to a hard char to play) doesn't mean you have to get all defensive about it or say it's hate. Simple fact is, kai is not hard to do a lot of dmg with cheaper gear than other chars, as well as less risk and down time from dodging. All they changed now was an exploit that shouldn't have been in the game in the first place.
Thats Where your Wrong but am pretty sure your the type of a person who wont listen to anyone but your self, anyway 'There is always a way to dodge or move out of an attacks way as well so learn it.' Untrue with this new dodge it wont happen and theres only so much a Spin Smash can do if you want that extra distince, he really does need his bolt roll dodge His Survivabilty is trash now, beacuse of Hollow shot/6shooter Gun is face to face like any other class even if you dont like it.
About pvp it is mostly fine from the most part, just gets a bad rap takes time to learn beacuse it is different from pve, but people try it, get butt hurt then quit and say its trash
So his new dodge made him like other chars dodge, oh no. Yeah there is always a spot or way to move/dodge a move. I have yet to find something that i can't dodge so to speak in this game. The new raids attacks does not cover the entire map either. Those attacks aren't really face to face either, you get closer but damn you got closer for a second at most. Congrats. My point was he'll never be as close as a melee char all game that has a similar dodge, and has had these problems well before kai. Like I said they fixed an exploit, not meant to be in the game. Still doesn't change the fact kai is one of the cheapest and easiest characters to do the most damage with. I've done plenty of the ein lacher on my kai and it is by no means hard to solo fights either. I don't hate kai either, I had fun on my kai for a while but he gets super boring to me because he's not that hard and doesn't suit my style because he's not really in the action a lot. I don't like people trying to make it out as if he's a hard character to play and do well at compared to others that are clearly harder.
Nobody is saying kai is hard. On the contrary, alot of pple keep saying he is piss easy and baby mode lol. The main issue is that the change in dodge was substantial, ofc if any class lost access to or got their defensive mech nerfed they would be upset. Doesnt matter the class, anyone wud get disapppinted if their class got shafted. Plenty of staff evies were complainin bout her dodge nerfs, which was rightfully so. Its mainly the community hating on kai constantly cuz he is ranged and doesnt require as much gear. Still doesnt chhange the fact that the dodge was excessive and didnt hve to be that debilitating. As i said this already a few times, nerf was necessry to his dodge but not by that much. We will adjust eventually but it still sucks alot
You're still not getting my point, it was an exploit that shouldn't have been in the game to start with. Sure it makes it harder to play but it's a good balance. In my honest opinion. I know it will probably make me play kai again just because it won't be as "piss easy"
Seems to be a lot of hate spilling out, which his hilarious. Breaking a mechanic isn't something that any class deserves, and it's not good for anyone. The Kais who take top damage don't do it because of his dodge, and breaking it isn't a nerf, it's bad design, something that has happened before in Vindi. Luckily I'm playing Bow right now, and even though his dodge could still use work, as others mentioned, at least he has grapple to supplement. They just messed Xgun up with a poor change; this is not a fix.
@Abaddan Is using Bow Switch to cancel out bows dodge a 'exploit' or when hurk can cancel out his bump with a normal, a 'exploit'? for real Bolt rolling there was nothing wrong with, not breaking the game made gun so much fun now hes back to the old slow Crossgun we all had before the revamp and even if it is a so called glitch whats wrong with it? gives Crossgun kai Complexly.
Staff Evie never had iframes and she has to be as close or closer to the boss as crossgun Kai.
Amber was also complete garbage back then and useless in the majority of situations.
So how did she dodge anything at all with an almost-useless amber and no iframes?
You had to sprint spam or MA hop to reposition yourself.
Now, someone is probably going to argue that MA hop was unfair and unbalanced now.
No, it was not unfair because hop has no iframes, while crossgun Kai could basically cut off the last frames of his roll where he's vulnerable and basically remove most his vulnerable frames. Also, MA hop isn't a thing anymore because hop can be chained normally now.
heh heh I used to play spear lann 4 years ago before I quit after vella came out, so I know what it felt like to have no invulnerability and only .20 seconds of invulnerability. Those days were when playing as a spear lann meant you were either a phoenix feathers sinkhole, or had uber gear. Anyways, I would rather have only .43 sec and shorter delay between rolls than .63 sec and longer delay which makes trying to dodge combo attacks sometimes very iffy. That is how I feel about lann also. They buffed his iframes when really they should've just buffed his mobility by giving slip dash/roll more speed, or range, or shorter delay. This would be much better because lann's mobility is garbage, especially for a high-risk melee class, and my suggestion would reward skill with more mobility, and the farming grind would feel less of a chore.
Hmm, how about allowing players to modify their invulnerability techniques by allowing them to balance out their iframes-mobility themselves within certain limits? It would allow for more gameplay variety, and would just be more fun in general. Kinda like how kai players individually have different preferred ranks for their Reload skill.
Is this the actual linnard or that east imposter :0
There's an imposter? Anyway, I am west and used to associate with people like Lutiy (he left the game shortly after I did), and Beyak and I had a lot of fun trying to 1hp and speed solo sandbaggy-ish bosses. We uploaded a few videos.
Here's my beloved siglint:
I enjoyed the bombing mechanic. Back then, if you screwed up on the bombing, you're dead. No iframes!
These days I've been playing twin swords and Xgun. I love the Xgun mechanic, but I'm somewhat dissatisfied by sword lann's lack of mobility and weapon range. S3's unslippable attacks makes you wonder what's the point of playing swords when even xgun and spears' rolls are so often superior dodges. Try dodging Mad Willy Flint's (I know he's not s3) 5 consecutive tornadoes with sword lann. I figured out how to do it consistently, but with xgun or spears, you can just circle around him easily.
Anyways, I'm not too upset about Kai's fix, but I do miss those bolt rolls. Again, I wouldn't mind giving up a couple iframes to have those bolt rolls back.
For sword lann, I think either adding a third slip to his current double-slips, or significantly decreasing the delay between his second slip and the next initial slip dash would make him more enjoyable and worthy of a short-range melee class in terms of mobility, even if it means sacrificing a couple iframes.
Glade to see you back although I'm a little bummed out it wasn't mister Mercury :c. If you want a class with a triple dodge, you should try out Cestus Karok heh.
I did some of the harder einlachers on a CG kai for the hell of it one day and didn't remember about bolt rolling till I was done with Keaghan. Honestly I didn't have any trouble without it and still had a hell of a lot easier of a time than the other 5 characters I've gotten golden god on.
So when u dodged u never left clicked after each dodge? Was the spacing/delay of the dodges slightly worse than pre revamp kai? And which runs did you do? There are some bosses like s1 glas that kai just inherently has a harder time than another class like vella, hurk and fifi. I understand some raids kai does hve an advantage in but in others, melee/counter classes hve a mich easier time.
The runs I remember finding quite difficult on some of the other classes which I did that day on Kai was Iset, Keaghan and Lagho. I didn't hold down left click and actually rarely spammed my dodge. (never had an issue even when I had Perforate loaded)
I've gotten the title on Hurk,Karok,Fiona,Delia,Lynn (half of Scythe Evie's runs for a friend) and the attack patterns which gave me the most trouble were ones with very little windup, good tracking but relatively small hitbox. The ability to keep right out of range of these patterns made runs significantly less problematic which was the biggest issue when playing a melee class. I was also quite stubborn and refused to just kite the boss for 10mins+ but instead took advantage of blind spots and learning hitboxes of bosses I've rarely ran to get a satisfactory run. So when I picked up gun Kai on one particular day, hollow offered sufficient range to just keep me out of range of these annoyances, and by then, I had more or less figured out the timing, tracking, and hitboxes of the other attack patterns. I rarely needed to iframe a string of attacks because positioning was quite more forgiving on any class that doesn't require you to be in the boss's face all the time.
As for Glas, it's simply about positioning when playing a class with an iframe based dodge. Luckily for me, there was a time where I've spent ages practicing 1 hp Spear Lann there back with his 0.3s roll, so I've learned to take advantage of certain blindspots so that annoying side swipe doesn't hit me. But ofc any class without a block would run into troubles with prolonged hitboxes so they need to get a little creative with patterns that can't be straight up iframed.
I would say the biggest difference between then and now after all these class buffs/revamps is a lesser emphasis on positioning and more on a dodge or block. Back then, a weak survival mechanic forced players to stay out of the way and take advantage of blind spots and learn hitboxes. Now everyone is just iframing and blocking everything which only requires a vague idea of where and when the attack ends. Which I find quite a shame as that was the mindset I had when ein lacher first came out and it led to hours and hours of stressful runs where my dodge either fails due to lag or not triggering at all from the spam.
Staff Evie never had iframes and she has to be as close or closer to the boss as crossgun Kai.
Amber was also complete garbage back then and useless in the majority of situations.
So how did she dodge anything at all with an almost-useless amber and no iframes?
You had to sprint spam or MA hop to reposition yourself.
Now, someone is probably going to argue that MA hop was unfair and unbalanced now.
No, it was not unfair because hop has no iframes, while crossgun Kai could basically cut off the last frames of his roll where he's vulnerable and basically remove most his vulnerable frames. Also, MA hop isn't a thing anymore because hop can be chained normally now.
Staff Evie was only one example of this as well.
Well give Kai a version of Mana Shield and we'll call it even.
Comments
Scythe evie isnt even tier 1 DPS anymore. Arisha, Cestus Karok, both Kais, both Vellas and Staff evies outdps her in general. Not counting stuff like Spear lann on sandbags as its pretty situational and s3 has no sandbags for melee anyway (you can't hit braha with melee attacks most of the time, you have to wait till he starts attacking).
Almost every s3 boss is anti-melee as they spam 360 degree AOE multi hit combos and/or have mechanics that are designed to be anti-melee :
-Forcing melee characters to run back to white grass in Regina while ranged can still DPS from white grass, charge spells, etc
-Braha being unhittable by melee most of the time
-Glas spamming his AOE combos and standing in the middle of blue pools
-Eochaid spamming AOE combos in both forms
-Abo spamming AOE combos + its harder for melee characters to get to his legs in time
Thank you someone who actually understands along with arrow95. To answer your question, i am being incredibly careful with my dodge now and tryna trreat him like sw vella except with xcut. Hunting party is something i 99% of the time will use in any scenario so its definitely useful for movement and even dodging purposes. Currently it looks like no change will be made but then again hurk got changed and then changed back to normal so there is hope. Please do not unbind all your gear. U can main bow alongside gun (i use both) and they are both very fun. Gun is still strong its just gonna take us a bit of time to get used to it
With the inclusion of guns being the norm for 2nd weapons from this point on, they really need to start designing bosses with close combat and ranged attack phases to balance out character dps, OR they need to make dodge/block mechanics on ranged characters really bad to compensate. It seems, so far, that they are going with Option 2. Now, you could argue this isn't the correct way to balance out ranged vs close combat dps, but it's definetely the fastest and easiest way to do it.
There's an imposter? Anyway, I am west and used to associate with people like Lutiy (he left the game shortly after I did), and Beyak and I had a lot of fun trying to 1hp and speed solo sandbaggy-ish bosses. We uploaded a few videos.
Here's my beloved siglint:
I enjoyed the bombing mechanic. Back then, if you screwed up on the bombing, you're dead. No iframes!
These days I've been playing twin swords and Xgun. I love the Xgun mechanic, but I'm somewhat dissatisfied by sword lann's lack of mobility and weapon range. S3's unslippable attacks makes you wonder what's the point of playing swords when even xgun and spears' rolls are so often superior dodges. Try dodging Mad Willy Flint's (I know he's not s3) 5 consecutive tornadoes with sword lann. I figured out how to do it consistently, but with xgun or spears, you can just circle around him easily.
Anyways, I'm not too upset about Kai's fix, but I do miss those bolt rolls. Again, I wouldn't mind giving up a couple iframes to have those bolt rolls back.
For sword lann, I think either adding a third slip to his current double-slips, or significantly decreasing the delay between his second slip and the next initial slip dash would make him more enjoyable and worthy of a short-range melee class in terms of mobility, even if it means sacrificing a couple iframes.
Quite frankly, as pple stated, kai needs to still get up close and personal. The gear and stat req for kai as opposed to other char is besides the point, right now we are talking mainly bout dodging mechanics and avoiding attacks. Becuz if u really want to get technical about it then that theoretically means at min/max stats kai isnt as good compared to other classes like scythe evie who becomes a monster when she has her spd up to 110-120+ due to paw and infinite insane reaper. Kai doesnt benefit from spd much after a certain threshold.
So when u dodged u never left clicked after each dodge? Was the spacing/delay of the dodges slightly worse than pre revamp kai? And which runs did you do? There are some bosses like s1 glas that kai just inherently has a harder time than another class like vella, hurk and fifi. I understand some raids kai does hve an advantage in but in others, melee/counter classes hve a mich easier time.
This is so wrong, first of all after scythe evie revamp, at one point did she ever get weaker? Second of all, scythe evie is most definitely one of the strongest characters right now. When she is min/maxed her damage output is absurd. Her dodge is amazing and mana shield is an extra buffer. Previously mana shield was designed specifically for evie becuz her gear did not allow her to gain much def. now she can not only hve same amount of def as anyone else but also maintain her mana shield
So his new dodge made him like other chars dodge, oh no. Yeah there is always a spot or way to move/dodge a move. I have yet to find something that i can't dodge so to speak in this game. The new raids attacks does not cover the entire map either. Those attacks aren't really face to face either, you get closer but damn you got closer for a second at most. Congrats. My point was he'll never be as close as a melee char all game that has a similar dodge, and has had these problems well before kai. Like I said they fixed an exploit, not meant to be in the game. Still doesn't change the fact kai is one of the cheapest and easiest characters to do the most damage with. I've done plenty of the ein lacher on my kai and it is by no means hard to solo fights either. I don't hate kai either, I had fun on my kai for a while but he gets super boring to me because he's not that hard and doesn't suit my style because he's not really in the action a lot. I don't like people trying to make it out as if he's a hard character to play and do well at compared to others that are clearly harder.
Nobody is saying kai is hard. On the contrary, alot of pple keep saying he is piss easy and baby mode lol. The main issue is that the change in dodge was substantial, ofc if any class lost access to or got their defensive mech nerfed they would be upset. Doesnt matter the class, anyone wud get disapppinted if their class got shafted. Plenty of staff evies were complainin bout her dodge nerfs, which was rightfully so. Its mainly the community hating on kai constantly cuz he is ranged and doesnt require as much gear. Still doesnt chhange the fact that the dodge was excessive and didnt hve to be that debilitating. As i said this already a few times, nerf was necessry to his dodge but not by that much. We will adjust eventually but it still sucks alot
You're still not getting my point, it was an exploit that shouldn't have been in the game to start with. Sure it makes it harder to play but it's a good balance. In my honest opinion. I know it will probably make me play kai again just because it won't be as "piss easy"
Staff Evie never had iframes and she has to be as close or closer to the boss as crossgun Kai.
Amber was also complete garbage back then and useless in the majority of situations.
So how did she dodge anything at all with an almost-useless amber and no iframes?
You had to sprint spam or MA hop to reposition yourself.
Now, someone is probably going to argue that MA hop was unfair and unbalanced now.
No, it was not unfair because hop has no iframes, while crossgun Kai could basically cut off the last frames of his roll where he's vulnerable and basically remove most his vulnerable frames. Also, MA hop isn't a thing anymore because hop can be chained normally now.
Staff Evie was only one example of this as well.
Glade to see you back although I'm a little bummed out it wasn't mister Mercury :c. If you want a class with a triple dodge, you should try out Cestus Karok heh.
The runs I remember finding quite difficult on some of the other classes which I did that day on Kai was Iset, Keaghan and Lagho. I didn't hold down left click and actually rarely spammed my dodge. (never had an issue even when I had Perforate loaded)
I've gotten the title on Hurk,Karok,Fiona,Delia,Lynn (half of Scythe Evie's runs for a friend) and the attack patterns which gave me the most trouble were ones with very little windup, good tracking but relatively small hitbox. The ability to keep right out of range of these patterns made runs significantly less problematic which was the biggest issue when playing a melee class. I was also quite stubborn and refused to just kite the boss for 10mins+ but instead took advantage of blind spots and learning hitboxes of bosses I've rarely ran to get a satisfactory run. So when I picked up gun Kai on one particular day, hollow offered sufficient range to just keep me out of range of these annoyances, and by then, I had more or less figured out the timing, tracking, and hitboxes of the other attack patterns. I rarely needed to iframe a string of attacks because positioning was quite more forgiving on any class that doesn't require you to be in the boss's face all the time.
As for Glas, it's simply about positioning when playing a class with an iframe based dodge. Luckily for me, there was a time where I've spent ages practicing 1 hp Spear Lann there back with his 0.3s roll, so I've learned to take advantage of certain blindspots so that annoying side swipe doesn't hit me. But ofc any class without a block would run into troubles with prolonged hitboxes so they need to get a little creative with patterns that can't be straight up iframed.
I would say the biggest difference between then and now after all these class buffs/revamps is a lesser emphasis on positioning and more on a dodge or block. Back then, a weak survival mechanic forced players to stay out of the way and take advantage of blind spots and learn hitboxes. Now everyone is just iframing and blocking everything which only requires a vague idea of where and when the attack ends. Which I find quite a shame as that was the mindset I had when ein lacher first came out and it led to hours and hours of stressful runs where my dodge either fails due to lag or not triggering at all from the spam.
Well give Kai a version of Mana Shield and we'll call it even.