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Probably shouldn't throw a comment in here cause somebody's gonna wanna argue, but doing it anyway.
Any game that involves some form of "random" or "RNG" or "chance" is always going to benefit the owner than the customer. Odds are purposely set low to make you spend more in order to make the most money off of you.
That literally applies to everything in the gaming industry that's "random." Loot boxes, card packs, lottery machines, everything. Not sure how cards work (Referring to games like Yu-Gi-Oh or Magic: The Gathering) but I'm pretty sure those companies purposely print out the rare/good cards in lesser quantities than the common/okay cards simply because they know you're going to go searching for those rare/good cards in every pack you buy. Same thing goes for Hearthstone, Legendary cards are always rare as hell because (for the most part) Legendary cards are really good. Every good deck in Hearthstone has at least 1 or more legendary cards.
Loot boxes. Good items are always set to low % value simply because the owner knows how much the item is wanted/benefits the customer. That's why outfitters and runes and such (In Vindictus's case) are always so low, because they know you want the outfit in the box, and they're gonna try to get as much as they can possibly run you dry for.
I would think something like this would be common sense. A business will always try to make as much as they possibly can work for. And as much as I want to say Nexon is a perfect example of this, so are most other game companies. That's why DLC's and stuff exist. They want you to buy their game but then release the other half of the game later so that you can buy that other half and give them more money.
But that's my two cents :P
About your trading card reference - if each card pack is guaranteed to have a legendary/rare in it then that isn't TRULY random obviously and that should also be common sense. So that isn't the same as what Nexon is being sued for, where they actually told players that the gacha was "random" - they didn't bother to tell players they set ridiculously low rates for certain gacha items to as low as 0.5% - a gacha item with rates that low might as well not even exist if it's that hard to get it and don't forget all the other junk items they put in gachas.
Lottery machines aren't truly random either, don't know why you even mentioned that. Obviously they're rigged against people to exploit and take advantage of gambling addicts.
Just because other people do something a lot doesn't make it right or okay - there are millions of people living in extreme poverty and it's that way in a bunch of other countries too - does that make it okay? No. There are 123 suicides per day, that's 123 people killing themselves every single day, that's a lot right? Does that make it okay? No. There's a lot of racist, sexist, homophobic individuals in this world - does that make it okay? No.
So is it okay for Nexon to lie to players and tell them that the gacha is just "random" (and no, they didn't tell anyone the rates were lower for certain items or what those rates were either) when it really isn't and they actually made certain items have a 0.5% rate? Is it okay for them to lie to players YET AGAIN after the other 9232328328 times they've lied?
Answer to both questions: No.
They just got caught in one of their lies this time.
And now it's come to light how big of a credibility issue Nexon has - if they lied about all these other "random" events and gave people nothing but junk when we were supposed to all have a fair chance how do we know they aren't lying again and manipulating gacha rates behind the scenes whenever they feel like it, the same way they did with those "random" gachas that they actually made the good items have a 0.5% rate?
Don't know about you but I will never trust a liar and definitely not a lying game company that wants my money. I would be a fool to give money to a game company that obviously has zero respect for its players the way they repeatedly lie and deceive players. I respect myself and how hard I work for my money, I'm not going to be giving money to some greedy, moneyhungry lying game company that tell me "oh this event is random! you just login and you will get a random item!" then turns around and gives me nothing but junk/trash items and to EVERY SINGLE PLAYER, throwing scraps at us because of how little respect they have for us as players.
I refuse to buy any of those "4%" gacha boxes because just like there was something fishy in all those rigged "random" events we've had in the past, just like there was something fishy going on with Nexon KR's gachas that has them getting sued now, there is likely to be something fishy going on with those "4%" gacha boxes, I highly doubt that 4% number is accurate either because of all the other junk items that lower that lower that number or something they probably have in place to ensure only a very limited number of people get those 4% chance rare gacha items. I remember there was one guy that actually showed receipts of his gacha box purchases and he had actually spent over $700 or $800 on gacha boxes and never got one of those "4%" chance items sounds rigged to me. It's cases like this that make me think that there's something fishy going on with those 4% gacha boxes here with Nexon NA, it isn't as simple as you think, most likely it isn't just a 4% number chance you're dealing with but other variables to limit how many of those 4% chance items go into circulation.
@Deprived Never said it was okay. And I'm aware that something like a lottery machine isn't random, there's a reason why I put in quotations random, RNG, and chance.
I agree with your points, and while it isn't okay obviously for gaming companies to do such things, it's still going to happen, no matter what. We can rant, complain, and cry out at these companies all we want but in the end we're just the pawns in the system that buy their product. Just dollars signs to them and as long as money keeps flowing to companies they won't care what we have to say. The only way for companies to change ways would be if literally every single person in the system stops feeding them and starve companies out.
Anyway, unfortunately this won't go anywhere on a video game forum of all places and so with that, these are my last words.
A bunch of garbage without any sort of evidence to back it, something about people killing themselves, and how there's world hunger and comparing it to a game company's gacha rates. Fkn A.
*claps* You had that in you for a while now didn't you, it's been a whole 3 posts without you writing a wall of nonsense , repeating yourself.
Don't know about you but I will never trust a liar and definitely not a lying game company that wants my money. I would be a fool to give money to a game company that obviously has zero respect for its players the way they repeatedly lie and deceive players.
You don't have to? There's an uninstall button, Goodbye? Don't need your life story.
"oh this event is random! you just login and you will get a random item!" then turns around and gives me nothing but junk/trash items and to EVERY SINGLE PLAYER
To every single player? Big Fat lie right there. Can point you to several people that got the best items in such events.
I remember there was one guy that actually showed receipts of his gacha box purchases and he had actually spent over $700 or $800 on gacha boxes and never got one of those "4%" chance items sounds rigged to me.
I also remember there was one guy that bought 50 $ worth of boxes and got 3 of those 4 % items (2 pets, 1 avatar). And another one that bought 20 $ worth of boxes and got 1 (avatar).
There is no such thing as TRULY Random in games you dipshit. What don't you understand. You go on and on and on.. Truly random , Truly Random...
Point me to a free to play game that has a business model with Truly random in it.
Oh hey look we made 500 $ from all these sales, guess we'll keep the game running for 5 more hours.
All the servers and all the employees and all the other costs , who's gonna pay for them? Your momma?
And keep in mind these 4 % gachas are mostly cosmetic items, stuff that doesn't influence your game play. They could just sell +20 coupon gachas for 100 $ a box you know? And that would be within their right. Will it ruin the game for everyone? Yep.
But yeah let's complain about cosmetic items being monetized. It's p2w for sure.
So I will wait for you to point me to the Truly Random Boxes in a free to play game. A fairly popular game an mmo. let's say. Official, not private servers.
Actually why don't you go and play on a private server of whatever, where you have 100 % rates for everything. And Enjoy it. Don't expect any updates tho or any new content or 24/7 stable uptime, cause no one is paying for that and no one else is making it besides the owner of the game.
I think you will be happy there.
Problem solved, glad I could help. Don't let the door hit you on the way out! +best
A thread with over 2k views; maybe 50 unique people visited once or twice, rest of the views are likely made by the ones **** posting and getting more and more triggered. A moment of silence for brevity and not repeating the same ideas in every post. Ok, back to the cringe.
Like I said "RobertLivia" I'm not even bothering to read your shitposts so you're wasting your time even quoting and replying to me and I doubt anyone is even taking you seriously here because you have the maturity level of a 6 year old - you see you won't get your way here, NO ONE agrees with you and wants to kiss Nexon's ass with you so you're now having a hissy fit and think throwing insults will make people believe you and take your side lol
Your entire argument falls apart as soon as you begin displaying how angry you are that no one will agree with you and begin throwing personal insults in what is supposed to be a mature intelligent discussion. It shows how weak your argument really is and how weak all of your points really are. You don't have an argument anymore, I just see a child throwing a temper tantrum trying to start a flame war. You're a waste of my time.
You're foolish enough to think that mixing in insults as part of your argument will make you seem more credible but in actuality it only shows how immature you are and how YOU'RE NOT prepared to discuss matters like this with adults yet, you still have the mentality of an adolescent or an immature teenager - "what! they don't agree with me?! well maybe if I get mad and make this into a best insults competition people will THINK I'm smart and I'm more important! at least I'm better at that right?!", "I'm not smart enough and I'm not disciplined enough to have debate/discussion with adults without getting mad that people don't agree with me so I'm going to just throw insults to make him mad like I am and we can see who has the best insults! yeah that'll work!".
That's "RobertLivia" in a nutshell lol
And let's not forget you're the same one claiming THE DICTIONARY definition of the word 'random' is wrong lol
I didn't think I would ever see the day someone would actually be foolish enough to say the dictionary is wrong. But never say never I suppose.
And if NO ONE is agreeing with you you're probably wrong, you should take a hint.
You have a lot to learn, child. Because that's what you act like.
There is a very good reason why so many hate Nexon, because they mistreat players and don't give players the respect they deserve.
And now that they're finally being challenged for it like another poster here said, now that they're being punished for mistreating players, lying, deceiving and misleading players you're mad about that and want to defend them?
You're so delusional you don't even realize how crazy you look trying so hard to defend and justify what they did, lowering gacha rates to as low as 0.5% without even telling players just to steal more money from players.
And that obviously shows how big of a credibility issue Nexon has as well - you can't argue that. Nexon has been exposed of lowering gacha rates just to make more money off of players that think they're being honest about the rates. So who knows how long they've been doing this? It's even worse for us here in NA because there is no one even regulating them and there to make sure that they aren't doing this so they can continue doing it here if they choose to do so. And they're likely to do so because Nexon NA makes the least amount of revenue off of Vindictus out of all the other regions so it's likely they will continue.
They don't really care what we think, they never speak to us on the forums unless it's something that will hurt their revenue and involves money, they don't care that we don't like them for mistreating us as players so they continue, they've shown us how they think we deserve less compared to the other regions for example the way they had that coin event that gives wings and tried to only give us the crappy wings while other regions got more wings until they saw the forum flooded with complaints about it so they added the other wings because they knew it would hurt their revenue and they wouldn't make as much money off of players in the long run. Why does Nexon NA think we deserve less in America? These are all reasons that point to them most likely continuing to manipulate and lower gacha rates if they feel like it here in NA, I have no reason to trust the rates they claim on gacha boxes anymore because it's obvious they have very little respect for us.
But then again some here have mentioned you might actually be a Nexon employee on another account so that would explain why you're the only one here trying to defend all of this and what Nexon has done.
Or you're just a shameless Nexon fanboy that has no respect for himself. You don't care how foolish you look defending what Nexon did if it means you might get a little extra attention from Nexon, maybe they'll send you a free +15 if you kiss their asses enough eh?
little extra attention from Nexon, maybe they'll send you a free +15 if you kiss their asses enough eh?
I already have one, 2 in fact. :x
Don't you have one? the game's been out for 7 years. Most of the people I know have a +15.
Why are u still here ? xD Mr. Mature. That doesn't have any proof just bullshit over bullshit and made up stories.
Where's the game with the True random boxes? Ofc you can't answer. And write a wall off nothing again to deviate from the subject. Yep that is very Mature.
So its been a while since I took statistics but I just wanna throw out there that the 4% number they gave doesn't mean that there's suppose to be a 4/100 chance that we will get an Iset pet, or a nice outfitter item, it means that there is a 4/100 chance you will get a "rare" item. They listed that there were 11 items that fall under the "rare" status. So to get 1 specific "rare" item the probability of getting it is (4/100) * (1/11) which would be 0.00363 or 0.36% chance to get that item. (Somebody please check me heavily on that calculation because it has been awhile haha).
From this standpoint I can understand what @RobertLivia is saying since the probability of getting rare items in this game is going to definitely be stacked against us because frankly this is a business and they are more than likely focused on making a profit (as they should be they are a business after all). As for @Deprived argument, there are a lot of valid points in his/her argument as well since that listed calculation I made above would only be accurate if they did consider all of those "rare" items under an equal probability. Could they change the rates of the sought after items to be less than 1/11? That is definitely possible and if they do that is definitely something that should be addressed through litigation because they are in fact lying about those rates and more than likely are violating some false advertising laws (Again somebody check me on this I am definitely not a lawyer haha). However at the moment it doesn't seem like it because I do feel like I get those "rare" items at a 4/100 chance its just usually 5k or 10k ap caps and the occasional outfit or pet.
Also that article at the beginning, I believe it would be important to point out that the point of the litigation was not that Nexon was lying about their item rates, but more that they did not point them out at all. I believe this is an important distinction because in KR I believe they are legally bound to posting their drop rates for gacha items which was a law passed a couple years ago. Again I am no expert on this but this does not say whether or not Nexon lied about their drop rates but rather that they did not follow that country's laws.
Finally I'll say that it is all good and everything to hold a company accountable for their unethical practices, but these gacha box rates should not be the main focus of our concerns. Honestly whether Nexon wants to label gachas like this or not, they are a form of monetized gambling and just like with any form of monetized gambling they are stacked against us. So to anyone believing that walking into this they should be winning anything is flawed from the beginning.
What we really should be focused on is the idea that game companies are heading towards a preference of gacha boxes rather than focusing on the core mechanics of the game itself, improving it and giving the gamer a better experience. Because if we only focus on the crappy gacha drop rates, we are definitely forgoing the fact that these gacha boxes are cheap and crappy way to hide the lack of content update and overall game progression.
So its been a while since I took statistics but I just wanna throw out there that the 4% number they gave doesn't mean that there's suppose to be a 4/100 chance that we will get an Iset pet, or a nice outfitter item, it means that there is a 4/100 chance you will get a "rare" item. They listed that there were 11 items that fall under the "rare" status. So to get 1 specific "rare" item the probability of getting it is (4/100) * (1/11) which would be 0.00363 or 0.36% chance to get that item. (Somebody please check me heavily on that calculation because it has been awhile haha).
From this standpoint I can understand what @RobertLivia is saying since the probability of getting rare items in this game is going to definitely be stacked against us because frankly this is a business and they are more than likely focused on making a profit (as they should be they are a business after all). As for @Deprived argument, there are a lot of valid points in his/her argument as well since that listed calculation I made above would only be accurate if they did consider all of those "rare" items under an equal probability. Could they change the rates of the sought after items to be less than 1/11? That is definitely possible and if they do that is definitely something that should be addressed through litigation because they are in fact lying about those rates and more than likely are violating some false advertising laws (Again somebody check me on this I am definitely not a lawyer haha). However at the moment it doesn't seem like it because I do feel like I get those "rare" items at a 4/100 chance its just usually 5k or 10k ap caps and the occasional outfit or pet.
Also that article at the beginning, I believe it would be important to point out that the point of the litigation was not that Nexon was lying about their item rates, but more that they did not point them out at all. I believe this is an important distinction because in KR I believe they are legally bound to posting their drop rates for gacha items which was a law passed a couple years ago. Again I am no expert on this but this does not say whether or not Nexon lied about their drop rates but rather that they did not follow that country's laws.
Finally I'll say that it is all good and everything to hold a company accountable for their unethical practices, but these gacha box rates should not be the main focus of our concerns. Honestly whether Nexon wants to label gachas like this or not, they are a form of monetized gambling and just like with any form of monetized gambling they are stacked against us. So to anyone believing that walking into this they should be winning anything is flawed from the beginning.
What we really should be focused on is the idea that game companies are heading towards a preference of gacha boxes rather than focusing on the core mechanics of the game itself, improving it and giving the gamer a better experience. Because if we only focus on the crappy gacha drop rates, we are definitely forgoing the fact that these gacha boxes are cheap and crappy way to hide the lack of content update and overall game progression.
And the perfect way to stop game companies heading towards this gacha box route is to not support it, to not waste your money on them when only a small fraction of those purchasing them will get those pets or ultra rare outfits they're seeking. People stop buying them Nexon will get the message when their revenue goes down and find some other means to make their money that doesn't involve exploiting and taking advantage of people with gambling problems.
I don't think there is anything we can do to get them to release content faster as they have to wait for KR and it's almost tradition or something for them to spend at least 6 months to move new content from KR to NA. NA is just very, very bad at that. No matter how much we complain about their lack of content and updates, nothing changes in that regard.
And you're right, the reason Nexon is being sued is because they did not point out the rates of the gachas in Nexon KR. And why do you think that is? Why do you think it is that they didn't want to tell players what the gacha rates are? Because they're actually manipulating the gacha rates and making them lower than what they lead players to believe - in this case they just said "oh the gachas are just random guys!" when it really wasn't, they went and made the rates of the rare items ridiculously low. That means number one they could have been doing this for years and years already, claiming the rare item gacha rate is X like 4% for example then they go in the system and actually change that number to whatever they feel like. It's the same thing as when they tell us "we're going to hold a +15 coupon event!" so they get your hopes up, especially the newer players, thinking that everyone has an equal probability of receiving anywhere from a +10 to +15 coupon but what do they really do? They give the overwhelming majority of players nothing but +10 coupons, a few get +11/+12 coupons and that's it, they don't tell you that they actually made it near impossible to get +13, +14 and +15 coupons do they? Does that sound like a fair event to you? Of course not. So those very same can be applied to their gachas, it's why I say something fishy is most likely going on with the gacha boxes here in Nexon NA as well, Nexon KR and Nexon NA are the same company after all and Nexon NA has a very long history of lying to players EVERY TIME the event has anything to do with chance.
So if they've lied to us every single time we had any event that had to do with chance, how they refuse to give us a fair "random" event, the way they insist on limiting the amount of players that can get anything good from events, you can bet they're doing the very same thing with these gacha boxes here in NA. Just like something fishy has been going on with Nexon KR and their gachas I think there is definitely something fishy going on in Nexon NA as well. After all, they REPEATEDLY lie to us and they're in desperate need of the money, that's even more reason for them to lie about the rates they're telling us on the gachas, more money for them. This is some conspiracy theory or anything like that, if someone (in this case Nexon) has a history of being dishonest, they're very likely to continue to be dishonest. They've been dishonest with every single event that had to do with chances, probability, why wouldn't they continue to be dishonest when it comes to these 4% gacha boxes? I don't believe that 4% rare item gacha rate for a second. And them being sued for hiding their gacha rate information is even more reason for me not to trust what they tell us about the gacha boxes.
This is likely what happened. They started this "random" gacha event, they just tell players it's "random" or they could just tell players "oh the rare item gacha rate is 4%". Then shortly after they changed the gacha rates from the rate they originally stated and lowered the rates for the rare items to 0.5% as was stated in the article and thought no one would ever find out. Well somehow the FTC in Korea found out that they had lowered the rates to a whopping (sarcasm) 0.5%....really? 0.5%??? It figures they didn't tell players they made the gacha rates that low - most people would laugh if they found out they were gambling their hard earned money trying to get a rare item with only a 0.5% chance to be obtained lol
So Nexon got a little too comfortable with changing gacha rates, lowering them on players like this and so they went and told players it was just a "random" chance but no, it wasn't, they were hiding the fact that they had lowered the rare gacha item rates to a ridiculously low 0.5%. They thought they would get away with lying and misleading players yet another time but this time they didn't get away, the FTC in Korea caught them lowering the gacha rates and hiding the fact they did that. This is how a lot of criminals are finally caught - they keep getting away with their crimes and they begin thinking they'll never get caught, they get too comfortable and start making careless mistakes. And that's exactly what happened in this case with Nexon lowering the gacha rates to 0.5% and trying to hide the fact they did that. They didn't tell players what the gacha rates were, FTC investigates and they find out that Nexon had actually made the rare item gacha rates a measly 0.5%.
Nexon got a little too careless this time and now we know they're LOWERING gacha rates to stupidly low rates - as low as 0.5%???
You can decide for yourself if it's worth taking that risk, giving money to a game company that is intentionally lowering gacha rates (and is being sued for lying about the chances of obtaining those rare gacha items). Definitely not worth my money. Sure you might see some people getting those rare gacha items but think about the hundreds or thousands of other players that just wasted all their money on those gachas and got nothing but junk/trash before that one person got a rare item. And if Nexon feels like it they can lower the rates to even lower than what they claimed - "hm we didn't make enough money today, let's lower the gacha rates and make it harder for people to get anything good so they spend more money" just like they did in this article and here in NA there is no one to sue them or regulate them to keep them from doing that.
Interesting. So it sounds like Nexon neglected to provide the rates for each item and used clever wording to imply all the rates were equal. That doesn't seem to happen in Vindictus (yet).
Also the forums are truly dead, huh? There was a time when mods would've deleted this topic instantly for FUD.
Interesting. So it sounds like Nexon neglected to provide the rates for each item and used clever wording to imply all the rates were equal. That doesn't seem to happen in Vindictus (yet).
That does in fact happen in Vindictus. How you ask?
Here are a few examples.
1. Mysterious Ice Cube Login/Attendance Event - You would receive a "mysterious" ice cube for logging in every day and Nexon NA claimed that the ice cubes were all simply "random" (implying every item had an equal probability of being obtained) and possible rewards were AP capsules, probably exp/ap/luck blessing stones and some of the most valuable rewards were enhance coupons.
Result: This "random" login event was found to NOT truly be random and the overwhelming majority of players, if not everyone, got nothing but AP capsules.
2. All the various game board events we have in Vindictus - every time they hold these events, they give you a game board, with junk items like exp blessing stones, ap capsules and potions then there are better items like maybe goddess graces. They claim this event is also "random", they put a dice piece in your face to make you THINK that the numbers you get from that dice piece are random, it's just a roll of the dice right?
Result: You find that this event is not really "random" - you'll find that you will almost never, ever receive the best items on that game board, a lot of times the number you get will put you right before or right after that good item on the game board and this makes you think to yourself "i was so close! maybe I'll get it next time!" and the cycle repeats, you keep thinking you were so close to getting that good item and that "random" dice piece isn't really random, the system ensures that you will only win the good items on that game board very few times. Notice how this works EXACTLY how those rigged gambling machines work in the video that DragonRider posted earlier in the thread where the machine will always put you in a position just before or after the jackpot item to keep you coming back and trying again, hoping you'll win the next time when what's really going on is the machine is set up to only allow someone to win once every 30 times or once out of whatever number the owner chooses. You never, ever hear of anyone doing those game board events and getting the good items on that game board a bunch of times. It's controlled and you're limited to how many times you can win the good items on that game board overall to a very few times, that isn't "random".
3. Yearly Golden Time Maximum +15 Enhance Coupon Event - EVERY SINGLE YEAR we have this golden time event they get everyone's hopes up and excited for this enhance coupon event, they lie and deceive players claiming this event is also "random", that you will get a "random" coupon, implying there is an equal probability to obtain each of the enhance coupons but guess what happens? NEARLY EVERYONE gets nothing but +10 enhance coupons and that's it. Does that sound "random" to you? No, they just blatantly lie to players saying it's random but actually change the rates to ensure the majority, if not all players receive just the average +10 enhance coupon and little to no one gets anything better than that. This last golden time event we had I don't recall seeing anyone get ing anything above a +10 enhance coupon. That's like having a raffle to see who wins a $100 prize for example and there are 99 names entered into the raffle all for one person and you only have your name put it in once to ensure you will pretty much never win that raffle and win that nice prize - that isn't random is it? That doesn't sound very fair does it? Well that's what Nexon is doing with every single one of their "random" events. That's what they did with the maximum +15 enhancement coupon golden time "random" event - they mislead and lie to us, give players false hope that they have a fair and equal chance of obtaining the various enhance coupons then make it so everyone just gets +10 enhance coupons and nothing else, they don't even think any of us deserve even a +11 coupon.
In that link you see "Ikevi" also a very old Vindictus player mentioning how he didn't hear anyone getting even a +11 coupon from that event Nexon claims is "random" - if 99.9% of players all get the same +10 enhance coupon and no one gets anything else, that isn't "random", the rates are being manipulated and we're being lied to because Nexon obviously feels like we don't deserve to get anything good from events.
This is how little respect Nexon has for it's players. They have so little respect for us as players that they don't even think we deserve to have a fair event.
So what do all of these examples have in common.
This clearly shows you Nexon has a history of lying and deceiving players when it comes to items and events that have to do with probability and chance, they are manipulating the drop rates and being dishonest about the chances you have to obtain these items. So if they have a pattern of doing this, why wouldn't they also lie about the chances of obtaining the rare items from the 4% paid gacha boxes? It's only more money for them and they've proven time and time again they have no respect for players. They've shown us that they don't care how we feel about them mistreating us, lying to us about all these other events, they're not going to care how we feel about them most likely lying about paid 4% gacha box rates either. I don't believe that 4% rare item gacha rate for a second. Because as long as they're making money off of them that's all they care about. And they're getting away with this, lying, deceiving, misleading players every single time here in America because they have no one to answer to about it, no one is regulating them and ensuring that they don't lie about these things, ensuring that they treat players fairly, so they're free to do as they wish and continue to lie to us.
Like I said, Nexon you have ZERO credibility. They lie to us in every single "random" event and while they do provide the rates for rare items from the paid gacha boxes here in NA I have no reason to believe that that 4% rare gacha item rate is accurate looking at their very long history of lying and actually lowering rates every chance they could get and limiting us on the amount of good items they think we deserve as seen in the examples I listed above and those are just a few examples.
Kommentare
They don't really seem to be as active anymore. I don't actually recall when's the last time I've seen a mod respond to something.
those multiple " dying threads" killed them
About your trading card reference - if each card pack is guaranteed to have a legendary/rare in it then that isn't TRULY random obviously and that should also be common sense. So that isn't the same as what Nexon is being sued for, where they actually told players that the gacha was "random" - they didn't bother to tell players they set ridiculously low rates for certain gacha items to as low as 0.5% - a gacha item with rates that low might as well not even exist if it's that hard to get it and don't forget all the other junk items they put in gachas.
Lottery machines aren't truly random either, don't know why you even mentioned that. Obviously they're rigged against people to exploit and take advantage of gambling addicts.
Just because other people do something a lot doesn't make it right or okay - there are millions of people living in extreme poverty and it's that way in a bunch of other countries too - does that make it okay? No. There are 123 suicides per day, that's 123 people killing themselves every single day, that's a lot right? Does that make it okay? No. There's a lot of racist, sexist, homophobic individuals in this world - does that make it okay? No.
So is it okay for Nexon to lie to players and tell them that the gacha is just "random" (and no, they didn't tell anyone the rates were lower for certain items or what those rates were either) when it really isn't and they actually made certain items have a 0.5% rate? Is it okay for them to lie to players YET AGAIN after the other 9232328328 times they've lied?
Answer to both questions: No.
They just got caught in one of their lies this time.
And now it's come to light how big of a credibility issue Nexon has - if they lied about all these other "random" events and gave people nothing but junk when we were supposed to all have a fair chance how do we know they aren't lying again and manipulating gacha rates behind the scenes whenever they feel like it, the same way they did with those "random" gachas that they actually made the good items have a 0.5% rate?
Don't know about you but I will never trust a liar and definitely not a lying game company that wants my money. I would be a fool to give money to a game company that obviously has zero respect for its players the way they repeatedly lie and deceive players. I respect myself and how hard I work for my money, I'm not going to be giving money to some greedy, moneyhungry lying game company that tell me "oh this event is random! you just login and you will get a random item!" then turns around and gives me nothing but junk/trash items and to EVERY SINGLE PLAYER, throwing scraps at us because of how little respect they have for us as players.
I refuse to buy any of those "4%" gacha boxes because just like there was something fishy in all those rigged "random" events we've had in the past, just like there was something fishy going on with Nexon KR's gachas that has them getting sued now, there is likely to be something fishy going on with those "4%" gacha boxes, I highly doubt that 4% number is accurate either because of all the other junk items that lower that lower that number or something they probably have in place to ensure only a very limited number of people get those 4% chance rare gacha items. I remember there was one guy that actually showed receipts of his gacha box purchases and he had actually spent over $700 or $800 on gacha boxes and never got one of those "4%" chance items sounds rigged to me. It's cases like this that make me think that there's something fishy going on with those 4% gacha boxes here with Nexon NA, it isn't as simple as you think, most likely it isn't just a 4% number chance you're dealing with but other variables to limit how many of those 4% chance items go into circulation.
I agree with your points, and while it isn't okay obviously for gaming companies to do such things, it's still going to happen, no matter what. We can rant, complain, and cry out at these companies all we want but in the end we're just the pawns in the system that buy their product. Just dollars signs to them and as long as money keeps flowing to companies they won't care what we have to say. The only way for companies to change ways would be if literally every single person in the system stops feeding them and starve companies out.
Anyway, unfortunately this won't go anywhere on a video game forum of all places and so with that, these are my last words.
Have a good day
*claps* You had that in you for a while now didn't you, it's been a whole 3 posts without you writing a wall of nonsense , repeating yourself.
Where does it say that?
You don't have to? There's an uninstall button, Goodbye? Don't need your life story.
To every single player? Big Fat lie right there. Can point you to several people that got the best items in such events.
I also remember there was one guy that bought 50 $ worth of boxes and got 3 of those 4 % items (2 pets, 1 avatar). And another one that bought 20 $ worth of boxes and got 1 (avatar).
There is no such thing as TRULY Random in games you dipshit. What don't you understand. You go on and on and on.. Truly random , Truly Random...
Point me to a free to play game that has a business model with Truly random in it.
Oh hey look we made 500 $ from all these sales, guess we'll keep the game running for 5 more hours.
All the servers and all the employees and all the other costs , who's gonna pay for them? Your momma?
And keep in mind these 4 % gachas are mostly cosmetic items, stuff that doesn't influence your game play. They could just sell +20 coupon gachas for 100 $ a box you know? And that would be within their right. Will it ruin the game for everyone? Yep.
But yeah let's complain about cosmetic items being monetized. It's p2w for sure.
So I will wait for you to point me to the Truly Random Boxes in a free to play game. A fairly popular game an mmo. let's say. Official, not private servers.
Actually why don't you go and play on a private server of whatever, where you have 100 % rates for everything. And Enjoy it. Don't expect any updates tho or any new content or 24/7 stable uptime, cause no one is paying for that and no one else is making it besides the owner of the game.
I think you will be happy there.
Problem solved, glad I could help. Don't let the door hit you on the way out! +best
One of my comments were deleted...
Let's see who's moderating...
Vindie merge into black desert online when?
Your entire argument falls apart as soon as you begin displaying how angry you are that no one will agree with you and begin throwing personal insults in what is supposed to be a mature intelligent discussion. It shows how weak your argument really is and how weak all of your points really are. You don't have an argument anymore, I just see a child throwing a temper tantrum trying to start a flame war. You're a waste of my time.
You're foolish enough to think that mixing in insults as part of your argument will make you seem more credible but in actuality it only shows how immature you are and how YOU'RE NOT prepared to discuss matters like this with adults yet, you still have the mentality of an adolescent or an immature teenager - "what! they don't agree with me?! well maybe if I get mad and make this into a best insults competition people will THINK I'm smart and I'm more important! at least I'm better at that right?!", "I'm not smart enough and I'm not disciplined enough to have debate/discussion with adults without getting mad that people don't agree with me so I'm going to just throw insults to make him mad like I am and we can see who has the best insults! yeah that'll work!".
That's "RobertLivia" in a nutshell lol
And let's not forget you're the same one claiming THE DICTIONARY definition of the word 'random' is wrong lol
I didn't think I would ever see the day someone would actually be foolish enough to say the dictionary is wrong. But never say never I suppose.
And if NO ONE is agreeing with you you're probably wrong, you should take a hint.
You have a lot to learn, child. Because that's what you act like.
There is a very good reason why so many hate Nexon, because they mistreat players and don't give players the respect they deserve.
And now that they're finally being challenged for it like another poster here said, now that they're being punished for mistreating players, lying, deceiving and misleading players you're mad about that and want to defend them?
You're so delusional you don't even realize how crazy you look trying so hard to defend and justify what they did, lowering gacha rates to as low as 0.5% without even telling players just to steal more money from players.
And that obviously shows how big of a credibility issue Nexon has as well - you can't argue that. Nexon has been exposed of lowering gacha rates just to make more money off of players that think they're being honest about the rates. So who knows how long they've been doing this? It's even worse for us here in NA because there is no one even regulating them and there to make sure that they aren't doing this so they can continue doing it here if they choose to do so. And they're likely to do so because Nexon NA makes the least amount of revenue off of Vindictus out of all the other regions so it's likely they will continue.
They don't really care what we think, they never speak to us on the forums unless it's something that will hurt their revenue and involves money, they don't care that we don't like them for mistreating us as players so they continue, they've shown us how they think we deserve less compared to the other regions for example the way they had that coin event that gives wings and tried to only give us the crappy wings while other regions got more wings until they saw the forum flooded with complaints about it so they added the other wings because they knew it would hurt their revenue and they wouldn't make as much money off of players in the long run. Why does Nexon NA think we deserve less in America? These are all reasons that point to them most likely continuing to manipulate and lower gacha rates if they feel like it here in NA, I have no reason to trust the rates they claim on gacha boxes anymore because it's obvious they have very little respect for us.
But then again some here have mentioned you might actually be a Nexon employee on another account so that would explain why you're the only one here trying to defend all of this and what Nexon has done.
Or you're just a shameless Nexon fanboy that has no respect for himself. You don't care how foolish you look defending what Nexon did if it means you might get a little extra attention from Nexon, maybe they'll send you a free +15 if you kiss their asses enough eh?
I already have one, 2 in fact. :x
Don't you have one? the game's been out for 7 years. Most of the people I know have a +15.
Why are u still here ? xD Mr. Mature. That doesn't have any proof just bullshit over bullshit and made up stories.
Where's the game with the True random boxes? Ofc you can't answer. And write a wall off nothing again to deviate from the subject. Yep that is very Mature.
stop killing Vindi guys
From this standpoint I can understand what @RobertLivia is saying since the probability of getting rare items in this game is going to definitely be stacked against us because frankly this is a business and they are more than likely focused on making a profit (as they should be they are a business after all). As for @Deprived argument, there are a lot of valid points in his/her argument as well since that listed calculation I made above would only be accurate if they did consider all of those "rare" items under an equal probability. Could they change the rates of the sought after items to be less than 1/11? That is definitely possible and if they do that is definitely something that should be addressed through litigation because they are in fact lying about those rates and more than likely are violating some false advertising laws (Again somebody check me on this I am definitely not a lawyer haha). However at the moment it doesn't seem like it because I do feel like I get those "rare" items at a 4/100 chance its just usually 5k or 10k ap caps and the occasional outfit or pet.
Also that article at the beginning, I believe it would be important to point out that the point of the litigation was not that Nexon was lying about their item rates, but more that they did not point them out at all. I believe this is an important distinction because in KR I believe they are legally bound to posting their drop rates for gacha items which was a law passed a couple years ago. Again I am no expert on this but this does not say whether or not Nexon lied about their drop rates but rather that they did not follow that country's laws.
Finally I'll say that it is all good and everything to hold a company accountable for their unethical practices, but these gacha box rates should not be the main focus of our concerns. Honestly whether Nexon wants to label gachas like this or not, they are a form of monetized gambling and just like with any form of monetized gambling they are stacked against us. So to anyone believing that walking into this they should be winning anything is flawed from the beginning.
What we really should be focused on is the idea that game companies are heading towards a preference of gacha boxes rather than focusing on the core mechanics of the game itself, improving it and giving the gamer a better experience. Because if we only focus on the crappy gacha drop rates, we are definitely forgoing the fact that these gacha boxes are cheap and crappy way to hide the lack of content update and overall game progression.
And the perfect way to stop game companies heading towards this gacha box route is to not support it, to not waste your money on them when only a small fraction of those purchasing them will get those pets or ultra rare outfits they're seeking. People stop buying them Nexon will get the message when their revenue goes down and find some other means to make their money that doesn't involve exploiting and taking advantage of people with gambling problems.
I don't think there is anything we can do to get them to release content faster as they have to wait for KR and it's almost tradition or something for them to spend at least 6 months to move new content from KR to NA. NA is just very, very bad at that. No matter how much we complain about their lack of content and updates, nothing changes in that regard.
And you're right, the reason Nexon is being sued is because they did not point out the rates of the gachas in Nexon KR. And why do you think that is? Why do you think it is that they didn't want to tell players what the gacha rates are? Because they're actually manipulating the gacha rates and making them lower than what they lead players to believe - in this case they just said "oh the gachas are just random guys!" when it really wasn't, they went and made the rates of the rare items ridiculously low. That means number one they could have been doing this for years and years already, claiming the rare item gacha rate is X like 4% for example then they go in the system and actually change that number to whatever they feel like. It's the same thing as when they tell us "we're going to hold a +15 coupon event!" so they get your hopes up, especially the newer players, thinking that everyone has an equal probability of receiving anywhere from a +10 to +15 coupon but what do they really do? They give the overwhelming majority of players nothing but +10 coupons, a few get +11/+12 coupons and that's it, they don't tell you that they actually made it near impossible to get +13, +14 and +15 coupons do they? Does that sound like a fair event to you? Of course not. So those very same can be applied to their gachas, it's why I say something fishy is most likely going on with the gacha boxes here in Nexon NA as well, Nexon KR and Nexon NA are the same company after all and Nexon NA has a very long history of lying to players EVERY TIME the event has anything to do with chance.
So if they've lied to us every single time we had any event that had to do with chance, how they refuse to give us a fair "random" event, the way they insist on limiting the amount of players that can get anything good from events, you can bet they're doing the very same thing with these gacha boxes here in NA. Just like something fishy has been going on with Nexon KR and their gachas I think there is definitely something fishy going on in Nexon NA as well. After all, they REPEATEDLY lie to us and they're in desperate need of the money, that's even more reason for them to lie about the rates they're telling us on the gachas, more money for them. This is some conspiracy theory or anything like that, if someone (in this case Nexon) has a history of being dishonest, they're very likely to continue to be dishonest. They've been dishonest with every single event that had to do with chances, probability, why wouldn't they continue to be dishonest when it comes to these 4% gacha boxes? I don't believe that 4% rare item gacha rate for a second. And them being sued for hiding their gacha rate information is even more reason for me not to trust what they tell us about the gacha boxes.
This is likely what happened. They started this "random" gacha event, they just tell players it's "random" or they could just tell players "oh the rare item gacha rate is 4%". Then shortly after they changed the gacha rates from the rate they originally stated and lowered the rates for the rare items to 0.5% as was stated in the article and thought no one would ever find out. Well somehow the FTC in Korea found out that they had lowered the rates to a whopping (sarcasm) 0.5%....really? 0.5%??? It figures they didn't tell players they made the gacha rates that low - most people would laugh if they found out they were gambling their hard earned money trying to get a rare item with only a 0.5% chance to be obtained lol
So Nexon got a little too comfortable with changing gacha rates, lowering them on players like this and so they went and told players it was just a "random" chance but no, it wasn't, they were hiding the fact that they had lowered the rare gacha item rates to a ridiculously low 0.5%. They thought they would get away with lying and misleading players yet another time but this time they didn't get away, the FTC in Korea caught them lowering the gacha rates and hiding the fact they did that. This is how a lot of criminals are finally caught - they keep getting away with their crimes and they begin thinking they'll never get caught, they get too comfortable and start making careless mistakes. And that's exactly what happened in this case with Nexon lowering the gacha rates to 0.5% and trying to hide the fact they did that. They didn't tell players what the gacha rates were, FTC investigates and they find out that Nexon had actually made the rare item gacha rates a measly 0.5%.
Nexon got a little too careless this time and now we know they're LOWERING gacha rates to stupidly low rates - as low as 0.5%???
You can decide for yourself if it's worth taking that risk, giving money to a game company that is intentionally lowering gacha rates (and is being sued for lying about the chances of obtaining those rare gacha items). Definitely not worth my money. Sure you might see some people getting those rare gacha items but think about the hundreds or thousands of other players that just wasted all their money on those gachas and got nothing but junk/trash before that one person got a rare item. And if Nexon feels like it they can lower the rates to even lower than what they claimed - "hm we didn't make enough money today, let's lower the gacha rates and make it harder for people to get anything good so they spend more money" just like they did in this article and here in NA there is no one to sue them or regulate them to keep them from doing that.
Also the forums are truly dead, huh? There was a time when mods would've deleted this topic instantly for FUD.
That does in fact happen in Vindictus. How you ask?
Here are a few examples.
1. Mysterious Ice Cube Login/Attendance Event - You would receive a "mysterious" ice cube for logging in every day and Nexon NA claimed that the ice cubes were all simply "random" (implying every item had an equal probability of being obtained) and possible rewards were AP capsules, probably exp/ap/luck blessing stones and some of the most valuable rewards were enhance coupons.
Result: This "random" login event was found to NOT truly be random and the overwhelming majority of players, if not everyone, got nothing but AP capsules.
2. All the various game board events we have in Vindictus - every time they hold these events, they give you a game board, with junk items like exp blessing stones, ap capsules and potions then there are better items like maybe goddess graces. They claim this event is also "random", they put a dice piece in your face to make you THINK that the numbers you get from that dice piece are random, it's just a roll of the dice right?
Result: You find that this event is not really "random" - you'll find that you will almost never, ever receive the best items on that game board, a lot of times the number you get will put you right before or right after that good item on the game board and this makes you think to yourself "i was so close! maybe I'll get it next time!" and the cycle repeats, you keep thinking you were so close to getting that good item and that "random" dice piece isn't really random, the system ensures that you will only win the good items on that game board very few times. Notice how this works EXACTLY how those rigged gambling machines work in the video that DragonRider posted earlier in the thread where the machine will always put you in a position just before or after the jackpot item to keep you coming back and trying again, hoping you'll win the next time when what's really going on is the machine is set up to only allow someone to win once every 30 times or once out of whatever number the owner chooses. You never, ever hear of anyone doing those game board events and getting the good items on that game board a bunch of times. It's controlled and you're limited to how many times you can win the good items on that game board overall to a very few times, that isn't "random".
3. Yearly Golden Time Maximum +15 Enhance Coupon Event - EVERY SINGLE YEAR we have this golden time event they get everyone's hopes up and excited for this enhance coupon event, they lie and deceive players claiming this event is also "random", that you will get a "random" coupon, implying there is an equal probability to obtain each of the enhance coupons but guess what happens? NEARLY EVERYONE gets nothing but +10 enhance coupons and that's it. Does that sound "random" to you? No, they just blatantly lie to players saying it's random but actually change the rates to ensure the majority, if not all players receive just the average +10 enhance coupon and little to no one gets anything better than that. This last golden time event we had I don't recall seeing anyone get ing anything above a +10 enhance coupon. That's like having a raffle to see who wins a $100 prize for example and there are 99 names entered into the raffle all for one person and you only have your name put it in once to ensure you will pretty much never win that raffle and win that nice prize - that isn't random is it? That doesn't sound very fair does it? Well that's what Nexon is doing with every single one of their "random" events. That's what they did with the maximum +15 enhancement coupon golden time "random" event - they mislead and lie to us, give players false hope that they have a fair and equal chance of obtaining the various enhance coupons then make it so everyone just gets +10 enhance coupons and nothing else, they don't even think any of us deserve even a +11 coupon.
http://forums.vindictus.nexon.net/discussion/12769/golden-miri-event-maximum-15-enhancement-coupon
In that link you see "Ikevi" also a very old Vindictus player mentioning how he didn't hear anyone getting even a +11 coupon from that event Nexon claims is "random" - if 99.9% of players all get the same +10 enhance coupon and no one gets anything else, that isn't "random", the rates are being manipulated and we're being lied to because Nexon obviously feels like we don't deserve to get anything good from events.
This is how little respect Nexon has for it's players. They have so little respect for us as players that they don't even think we deserve to have a fair event.
So what do all of these examples have in common.
This clearly shows you Nexon has a history of lying and deceiving players when it comes to items and events that have to do with probability and chance, they are manipulating the drop rates and being dishonest about the chances you have to obtain these items. So if they have a pattern of doing this, why wouldn't they also lie about the chances of obtaining the rare items from the 4% paid gacha boxes? It's only more money for them and they've proven time and time again they have no respect for players. They've shown us that they don't care how we feel about them mistreating us, lying to us about all these other events, they're not going to care how we feel about them most likely lying about paid 4% gacha box rates either. I don't believe that 4% rare item gacha rate for a second. Because as long as they're making money off of them that's all they care about. And they're getting away with this, lying, deceiving, misleading players every single time here in America because they have no one to answer to about it, no one is regulating them and ensuring that they don't lie about these things, ensuring that they treat players fairly, so they're free to do as they wish and continue to lie to us.
Like I said, Nexon you have ZERO credibility. They lie to us in every single "random" event and while they do provide the rates for rare items from the paid gacha boxes here in NA I have no reason to believe that that 4% rare gacha item rate is accurate looking at their very long history of lying and actually lowering rates every chance they could get and limiting us on the amount of good items they think we deserve as seen in the examples I listed above and those are just a few examples.
But I guess game ded, Nexoff bad, whales whaling cuz pixels and outfits priced like regular AAA titles during Steam sales.