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Well what exactly do you win from gatcha boxes other than pure disappointment from NOT getting the airtight item you wanted?
You get airtight items that you can sell for gold, and then buy whatever items you need. There were people who made billions off of just a few lucky drops in the Fauna boxes back during the summer, and there are still people making a few hundred million per item off of costumes and runes that they saved. Again, it's okay to gamble until you get enough airtight items to sell for all the gold you need, that's not P2W according to Nexon, but being able to sell Tir Coins to players so that they can buy NX items and then using that gold to buy that same end game gear is P2W. The logic is non-existent.
It's not pay to win if the free player can obtain the same item(s) in some way, shape, or form, which is how and why airtight items were created in the first place. Remember that you can't generate gold by selling cash items unless you have someone that grinds for it, or with the way we are being plagued by bawts right now, bought with irl cash.
They also have a limitation of being tradable in the Market ONLY ONCE. This limitation is what leads other players to being more careful when buying the item they want. So if you make a mistake whilst buying one airtight item, that's it. What makes it worse is that you can't mail it to another character unless you have a shared storage, which is usually distributed via event as a coupon of 7, 14, or 30 days respectively.
They can also be given away so long as another person does not take advantage of the trade as it can only be placed in the market. Most of the airtight max wakening potions I needed that drop from these boxes were actually done with this method from my current guild master (props and thanks to him).
If you set limitations to the items you get via gatcha box, and the methods to obtain them (up to the player to choose whether or not to buy them), then it is not a pay 2 win as it does not make the player overpowered in any way, shape, or form.
Pay 2 win is defined as a player giving money to make themselves way stronger or give an unfair advantage when compared to a player that chooses not to get these items or cannot afford it overall.
As an example: getting a weapon that instantly gives you critical cap, attack burst limitation, stats that imitate a normal +15 weapon of the highest current end game, along with an absurd amount of balance where you can stick two scrolls that eats balance up, but still won't affect your stats overall, and being permanent.
Most of the items are purely cosmetic, and don't affect the player in any form, except for the player's desire to attain the item to improve their overall appearance.
No way man, the next box will have the jack pot! I just know it!!!!!!!!
We should be getting Succubus Pet boxes sometime soon and perhaps another Succubus Queen Outfitter re-release. 1 Succubus Pet, when exchanged for with coupons, is roughly $300 from my calculations. This seems like a lot but there are just so many different variations of the Succubus Pet that people would probably end up with the one they didn't like or even none at all if they do buy the SQ Pet boxes.
They are airtight though, so there is the option of buying one with gold and/or selling the one you got but didn't like. I do wonder if they will actually sell a different variation of the elchulus wings, like the gold variant CN got, with the SQ pet gachapon. Or maybe a Black Phoenix Wings re-release after the EU migration is over, but this time you need to spend at least 500,000 NX
I'll make this simple. When the items come via airtight drops in RNG boxes, Nexon Global says it's fine to gamble as much real money as you want until you get items that you can sell. When you can directly sell Tir Coins for in game gold, it's P2W and they remove the system as part of the merger. There is no logic there. Both involve turning real money into in game currency, but surprise surprise, only the one that requires gambling is the acceptable method.
I'll make this simple. When the items come via airtight drops in RNG boxes, Nexon Global says it's fine to gamble as much real money as you want until you get items that you can sell. When you can directly sell Tir Coins for in game gold, it's P2W and they remove the system as part of the merger. There is no logic there. Both involve turning real money into in game currency, but surprise surprise, only the one that requires gambling is the acceptable method.
Except Tir coins were generating gold into the economy (or lack there of) by direct means of the game itself while as Airtight trades require a player to buy them. You can stick an airtight item as many times as you want, but if no one is interested, you're just throwing gold away because of the fees accumulating over time. Imagine sticking a 200M in game outfit into the market without one of those handy market licenses costing you 5M to post it in the MP, only to expire on you. You try it again and you waste another 5M.
Thing is if an airtight item that is posted into the market that keeps expiring and bounced back every 12 hours, then the player would waste 100M on their 20th expiration, or 5 straight days of the item failing to sell.
No matter how hard you can strictly word something into context, there will always be that one person who CAN and WILL find a work around it.
Irony is, no matter how many times you guys complain about it the money is more powerful than the one who types on the forums complaining about this in the first place. Think about this as part of consideration.
I personally wouldn't spend Nx on these Lucky Boxes, however, we should respect the rights of others that are. It is their money and they should feel obligated to spend it however they want. Those that buy Gachapons, myself included, do it so we can make gold much faster especially since most materials have dropped in value making farming less worth it.
I'll make this simple. When the items come via airtight drops in RNG boxes, Nexon Global says it's fine to gamble as much real money as you want until you get items that you can sell. When you can directly sell Tir Coins for in game gold, it's P2W and they remove the system as part of the merger. There is no logic there. Both involve turning real money into in game currency, but surprise surprise, only the one that requires gambling is the acceptable method.
Except Tir coins were generating gold into the economy (or lack there of) by direct means of the game itself while as Airtight trades require a player to buy them. You can stick an airtight item as many times as you want, but if no one is interested, you're just throwing gold away because of the fees accumulating over time. Imagine sticking a 200M in game outfit into the market without one of those handy market licenses costing you 5M to post it in the MP, only to expire on you. You try it again and you waste another 5M.
Thing is if an airtight item that is posted into the market that keeps expiring and bounced back every 12 hours, then the player would waste 100M on their 20th expiration, or 5 straight days of the item failing to sell.
No matter how hard you can strictly word something into context, there will always be that one person who CAN and WILL find a work around it.
Irony is, no matter how many times you guys complain about it the money is more powerful than the one who types on the forums complaining about this in the first place. Think about this as part of consideration.
And Tir coins sit on the MP unless people buy them. Tir coins would also expire if they're unpurchased. I'm done arguing it, though. You definitely have potential working for Nexon Global if you ever need a job.
@Prototypemind don't forget TIR coins have no listing fee and could be used to buy items to trade on the mp for profit like gachas with airtight items or dyes.
Anyways I wouldn't consider the p2w part the main or even a significant reason they got dropped for the merge.
I'm a little more interested where are you guys are getting that succubus pet price...
The Succubus Pet Gacha will be the same price as past Gachas; 1,900 NX for 1 Box, 15,200 NX for 10 Box. 200 Friendship Tickets needed to obtain any variant of Succubus Pet in the Exchange Shop. $304 (200 Boxes) to obtain 200 Friendship Tickets if you get 1 Friendship Ticket per box opening.
The Succubus Pet Gacha will be the same price as past Gachas; 1,900 NX for 1 Box, 15,200 NX for 10 Box. 200 Friendship Tickets needed to obtain any variant of Succubus Pet in the Exchange Shop. $304 (200 Boxes) to obtain 200 Friendship Tickets if you get 1 Friendship Ticket per box opening.
This. There are four variations too with noticeable differences but they are all airtight (so people will be able to swap, although not easily). A Gold Junior Gnoll Chieftain is 100 coupons through the newer exchange shop and this was priced around 300-400m on east, so I could see succubus pets being priced double that ($304 is worth roughly 1.5 billion of gold on East server.) From what I can see from the roughly translated page, it seems that you only get 1 Friendship Ticket per box opening, and no more which is a bit concerning.
It seems like this is the direction the game is headed in - $300 pets.
don't forget TIR coins have no listing fee and could be used to buy items to trade on the mp for profit like gachas with airtight items or dyes.
Anyways I wouldn't consider the p2w part the main or even a significant reason they got dropped for the merge.
It's more or less of having Vindictus XE verison that EU has being completely discontinued, and will instead have Vindictus PM instead, the same we NA players have, along with Korean players. Since Vindictus PM is incompatible with the TIR system, it was the most likely scenario where the TIR coins would be discontinued completely.
Nexon EU was completely fine with having TIR coins around, and it was even commonplace to trade TIR coins with other players, even going so far as to ban a player if a scam were to occur (with proof of course).
As to why Vindictus XE is being discontinued, that is mainly due to the servers being migrated as one giant server where the Vindictus PM is the more overall optimal choice.
The main differences between the two Vindictus clients, is the following:
1. Xe smashes costing a small amount of HP do execute a smash attack.
2. The player can still execute a jump, and there are mechanics associated with this very jump feature. The player can also do a jump basic hit, and a jump smash hit using the left and right mouse buttons respectively whilst being in the air.
3. the combo system where if you do a streak of hits without taking damage, you can do additional damage on top of your normal damage. This is capped at SSS rating, similar to Devil May Cry's Combo system.
4. XE had overall smoother game play, but there were many prevalent bugs that would end up causing the game to become game breaking.
Vindictus PM does not have these features, or did have these features, but got removed or patched due to game breaking exploits found within the game.
I know this may seem off the wall, but I just wanted to explain the two differences between the PM and XE clients, and the possible compatibility issues that may follow if EU were to keep the XE client going.
It's not pay to win if the free player can obtain the same item(s) in some way, shape, or form, which is how and why airtight items were created in the first place. Remember that you can't generate gold by selling cash items unless you have someone that grinds for it, or with the way we are being plagued by bawts right now, bought with irl cash.
They also have a limitation of being tradable in the Market ONLY ONCE. This limitation is what leads other players to being more careful when buying the item they want. So if you make a mistake whilst buying one airtight item, that's it. What makes it worse is that you can't mail it to another character unless you have a shared storage, which is usually distributed via event as a coupon of 7, 14, or 30 days respectively.
They can also be given away so long as another person does not take advantage of the trade as it can only be placed in the market. Most of the airtight max wakening potions I needed that drop from these boxes were actually done with this method from my current guild master (props and thanks to him).
If you set limitations to the items you get via gatcha box, and the methods to obtain them (up to the player to choose whether or not to buy them), then it is not a pay 2 win as it does not make the player overpowered in any way, shape, or form.
Pay 2 win is defined as a player giving money to make themselves way stronger or give an unfair advantage when compared to a player that chooses not to get these items or cannot afford it overall.
As an example: getting a weapon that instantly gives you critical cap, attack burst limitation, stats that imitate a normal +15 weapon of the highest current end game, along with an absurd amount of balance where you can stick two scrolls that eats balance up, but still won't affect your stats overall, and being permanent.
Most of the items are purely cosmetic, and don't affect the player in any form, except for the player's desire to attain the item to improve their overall appearance.
I haven't read the past pages much, but in my opinion if someone can spend money and obtain ingame currency in some directly related manner that is P2W (buying any real-life currency items that can be listed for ingame currency in an MMO, like airtight items in Vindictus or APEX in Archeage). Doesn't matter if F2P players can still obtain those items, it still classifies as P2W in my view and I really see no difference between selling NX items/TIR coins for gold and selling airtight items for gold...
like realistically 50m is worth about 10k NX or $10, how long is it going to take someone to farm 50m in this game? Days? Meanwhile someone can buy a ton of gachas and sell the airtight stuff from there sooo easily.
I don't mind P2W elements in a primarily PvE game but not when it's almost essential to progress (enhance runes, enchant runes)...
Guild Wars 2 from my understanding is purely cosmetic cash shop and offers no P2W advantages whatsoever, unlike BDO/ArcheAge (notorious)/Vindictus where you have the option (look at all the gachas that drop OJs, and how many runes someone can opt to get if they want to).
The boxes aren't worth it, not a single outfitter from this one looks rare/good compare to Tieve, iset, succubus Outfitters
Absolutely not, for the same amount of money (or even less) I can get a new console plus a few games rather than idling around a poop stained town or farming the same old maps over and over again for nothing really new. I used to think whales are what keep this game alive, I was wrong, they are the reason why Nexon thinks it's ok to keep pulling off bs like this, leading to more and more players walking way, including myself, who has supported this game for over 6 years.
The boxes aren't worth it, not a single outfitter from this one looks rare/good compare to Tieve, iset, succubus Outfitters
Absolutely not, for the same amount of money (or even less) I can get a new console plus a few games rather than idling around a poop stained town or farming the same old maps over and over again for nothing really new. I used to think whales are what keep this game alive, I was wrong, they are the reason why Nexon thinks it's ok to keep pulling off bs like this, leading to more and more players walking way, including myself, who has supported this game for over 6 years.
and with that price I can get a new video card... but you know, peeps want to spend their coin on how they want.
Comments
They also have a limitation of being tradable in the Market ONLY ONCE. This limitation is what leads other players to being more careful when buying the item they want. So if you make a mistake whilst buying one airtight item, that's it. What makes it worse is that you can't mail it to another character unless you have a shared storage, which is usually distributed via event as a coupon of 7, 14, or 30 days respectively.
They can also be given away so long as another person does not take advantage of the trade as it can only be placed in the market. Most of the airtight max wakening potions I needed that drop from these boxes were actually done with this method from my current guild master (props and thanks to him).
If you set limitations to the items you get via gatcha box, and the methods to obtain them (up to the player to choose whether or not to buy them), then it is not a pay 2 win as it does not make the player overpowered in any way, shape, or form.
Pay 2 win is defined as a player giving money to make themselves way stronger or give an unfair advantage when compared to a player that chooses not to get these items or cannot afford it overall.
As an example: getting a weapon that instantly gives you critical cap, attack burst limitation, stats that imitate a normal +15 weapon of the highest current end game, along with an absurd amount of balance where you can stick two scrolls that eats balance up, but still won't affect your stats overall, and being permanent.
Most of the items are purely cosmetic, and don't affect the player in any form, except for the player's desire to attain the item to improve their overall appearance.
1 Succubus Pet, when exchanged for with coupons, is roughly $300 from my calculations.
This seems like a lot but there are just so many different variations of the Succubus Pet that people would probably end up with the one they didn't like or even none at all if they do buy the SQ Pet boxes.
They are airtight though, so there is the option of buying one with gold and/or selling the one you got but didn't like.
I do wonder if they will actually sell a different variation of the elchulus wings, like the gold variant CN got, with the SQ pet gachapon.
Or maybe a Black Phoenix Wings re-release after the EU migration is over, but this time you need to spend at least 500,000 NX
Imagine sticking a 200M in game outfit into the market without one of those handy market licenses costing you 5M to post it in the MP, only to expire on you. You try it again and you waste another 5M.
Thing is if an airtight item that is posted into the market that keeps expiring and bounced back every 12 hours, then the player would waste 100M on their 20th expiration, or 5 straight days of the item failing to sell.
No matter how hard you can strictly word something into context, there will always be that one person who CAN and WILL find a work around it.
Irony is, no matter how many times you guys complain about it the money is more powerful than the one who types on the forums complaining about this in the first place. Think about this as part of consideration.
Anyways I wouldn't consider the p2w part the main or even a significant reason they got dropped for the merge.
I'm a little more interested where are you guys are getting that succubus pet price...
A Gold Junior Gnoll Chieftain is 100 coupons through the newer exchange shop and this was priced around 300-400m on east, so I could see succubus pets being priced double that ($304 is worth roughly 1.5 billion of gold on East server.)
From what I can see from the roughly translated page, it seems that you only get 1 Friendship Ticket per box opening, and no more which is a bit concerning.
It seems like this is the direction the game is headed in - $300 pets.
Nexon EU was completely fine with having TIR coins around, and it was even commonplace to trade TIR coins with other players, even going so far as to ban a player if a scam were to occur (with proof of course).
As to why Vindictus XE is being discontinued, that is mainly due to the servers being migrated as one giant server where the Vindictus PM is the more overall optimal choice.
The main differences between the two Vindictus clients, is the following:
1. Xe smashes costing a small amount of HP do execute a smash attack.
2. The player can still execute a jump, and there are mechanics associated with this very jump feature. The player can also do a jump basic hit, and a jump smash hit using the left and right mouse buttons respectively whilst being in the air.
3. the combo system where if you do a streak of hits without taking damage, you can do additional damage on top of your normal damage. This is capped at SSS rating, similar to Devil May Cry's Combo system.
4. XE had overall smoother game play, but there were many prevalent bugs that would end up causing the game to become game breaking.
Vindictus PM does not have these features, or did have these features, but got removed or patched due to game breaking exploits found within the game.
I know this may seem off the wall, but I just wanted to explain the two differences between the PM and XE clients, and the possible compatibility issues that may follow if EU were to keep the XE client going.
like realistically 50m is worth about 10k NX or $10, how long is it going to take someone to farm 50m in this game? Days? Meanwhile someone can buy a ton of gachas and sell the airtight stuff from there sooo easily.
I don't mind P2W elements in a primarily PvE game but not when it's almost essential to progress (enhance runes, enchant runes)...
Guild Wars 2 from my understanding is purely cosmetic cash shop and offers no P2W advantages whatsoever, unlike BDO/ArcheAge (notorious)/Vindictus where you have the option (look at all the gachas that drop OJs, and how many runes someone can opt to get if they want to).
I used to think whales are what keep this game alive, I was wrong, they are the reason why Nexon thinks it's ok to keep pulling off bs like this, leading to more and more players walking way, including myself, who has supported this game for over 6 years.
Now get buying lemmings, I need new clothes.
Less than 30 mins in and the sheep are already giving away their fleece like it's nothing.