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How long until we implement this sytem as well?

PrototypemindPrototypemind
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in Off Topic Discussion
http://news.mmosite.com/content/2016-12-12/china_is_cracking_down_on_mmorpg_lockbox_vendors.shtml

As Vindictus CN will be forced to implement this change, just wondering if we could get some dialogue going on when we'll be seeing it here. On top of disclosing rates, items available through RNG boxes must also be made available for direct purchase so that players have the option to choose which suits them. Love it. I'm sure it will be a progressive roll out, but it was a very short time between when the changes requiring odds to be disclosed in KR trickled down and began being implemented, so I can't imagine it will be all that long before it's in place to at least some degree. I can't imagine even the whales here being okay with having to gamble on boxes when players in CN can direct buy anything they like if they so choose.

Comments

  • DokkunDokkun
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    edited December 16, 2016
    But its not saying they have to sell it directly? o.o just some other method of obtaining it. If its direct purchase, they can set it to whatever price they want then; just more than a player wants to spend but not outrageously overpriced that only wealthy individuals, with too much time to spare, can afford.
  • TheDayInLoveTheDayInLove
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    edited December 17, 2016
    The rule doesn't outright ban the sale of gacha, it just force publisher to tell buyer the real % of the items in those boxes. Korea have this rule last year, I think.
  • NytsuyaNytsuya
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    Uh... Correct me if I'm wrong here but... aren't we already doing this in our version?

    Our boxes have had long lists of what's in them. The % chance to obtain the high value items. An alternative way to get the high value items via the exchange shop with special currency... And as far as I can tell they all have true RNG in those boxes as well..

    Granted not every box followed those rules...like the black Friday sale...
    ArellaRoth
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    edited December 17, 2016
    It's not just publishing the rates, it's requiring that all gotchas must at least have a direct purchase option or means of earning the items within them with in game currency, if not both.
  • DelterosDelteros
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    Nytsuya
    Nytsuya said:

    An alternative way to get the high value items via the exchange shop with special currency... And as far as I can tell they all have true RNG in those boxes as well..

    Granted not every box followed those rules...like the black Friday sale...
    Prototypemind

    It's not just publishing the rates, it's requiring that all gotchas must at least have a direct purchase option or means of earning them with in game currency, if not both.
    Last year's Crimson Commander Packages did have a means of earning them with in-game currency via the 5th Anniversary Monster Bingo. You could claim a Crimson's Commander Package as the grand prize for free after filling out the bingo card (and people could do this on multiple characters) but this year's version of that box, the Black Friday Lucky Boxes had nothing of the sort. Seems like a mistake.

    image
    Dokkun
  • DealerDealer
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    edited December 17, 2016
    Since this doesn't actually state the changes to CN Mabinogi heroes I moved this to the correct section.
    Prototypemind

    It's not just publishing the rates, it's requiring that all gotchas must at least have a direct purchase option or means of earning them with in game currency, if not both.
    Are you talking about this part?
    " it should provide the users with other virtual props exchange, and other ways of obtaining the same performance virtual props and value-added services by using the online game virtual currency direct purchase."

    The keyword I see there is other, since the higher priced items we have are the same as limited time outfitters, stat wise, NA wouldn't have to change anything.
    For CN however, they might need a S ranked outfitter in direct purchase, but then again S ranked outfitters are available to obtained through in game means, though it takes a lot of cash items to synthesize it, so I am not sure where it falls, since they could also argue that free event outfitters could be used to obtain them as well.
    Delteros
    Delteros said:



    Last year's Crimson Commander Packages did have a means of earning them with in-game currency via the 5th Anniversary Monster Bingo. You could claim a Crimson's Commander Package as the grand prize for free after filling out the bingo card (and people could do this on multiple characters) but this year's version of that box, the Black Friday Lucky Boxes had nothing of the sort. Seems like a mistake.

    image
    I'm confused, what do you mean by a mistake? Its not like this rule applies to NA.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    edited December 17, 2016
    It says that items inside of gambling boxes must also be available through at least direct purchase means or able to be earned through in game currency, which no region currently has. This would mean that when you make the Succy Queen set obtainable through Lucky Ice cubes, while you might provide shards that can be saved up, you must also either let players buy said outfit either with NX or have a means of them earning some form of in game currency by playing that they can purchase it with. None of Nexon's regions currently have such a system, but it will become mandatory in China, and that's a beautiful thing. Can't see any way that it wouldn't follow here. You're right, NA wouldn't have to change anything, nor would KR or anywhere else, but if they don't, there will be fallout.

    I clarified my post above as well. This isn't stating that the boxes themselves must be available for direct purchase or able to be earned, but that any prizes within them must be available for direct purchase/and or able to be earned through currency obtained by playing.
  • DealerDealer
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    edited December 17, 2016
    Prototypemind

    It says that items inside of gambling boxes must also be available through at least direct purchase means or able to be earned through in game currency, which no region currently has. This would mean that when you make the Succy Queen set obtainable through Lucky Ice cubes, while you might provide shards that can be saved up, you must also either let players buy said outfit either with NX or have a means of them earning some form of in game currency by playing that they can purchase it with. None of Nexon's regions currently have such a system, but it will become mandatory in China, and that's a beautiful thing. Can't see any way that it wouldn't follow here. You're right, NA wouldn't have to change anything, nor would KR or anywhere else, but if they don't, there will be fallout.

    I clarified my post above as well. This isn't stating that the boxes themselves must be available for direct purchase or able to be earned, but that any prizes within them must be available for direct purchase/and or able to be earned through currency obtained by playing.
    Where though, can you quote it?
    I don't see anything like that, the only part that mentions direct purchase is the part that I quoted, which only requires another item with the same abilities to be available for direct purchase.
    So again our current outfitter system satisfies that completely.

    Also on the topic of shards that can be saved up would be the same as a direct purchase method as described by the article (its not like CN has this system anyways) and even if not if they price the item at lets say $700 for Succubus queen, how is that any better than the gachapons?
    (I picked $700 since that would be the price of not getting gachapon stacks and only getting 1 coupon per gachapon)
  • DelterosDelteros
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    edited December 17, 2016
    Dealer
    Dealer said:



    I'm confused, what do you mean by a mistake? Its not like this rule applies to NA.
    Aren't we always following KR and other region's rules?
    To me it seems like NA doesn't have a voice and we are always receiving the short end of the stick.

    Well if we aren't going to follow those sorts of rules, it would only be a matter of time before more players who do pay $$$ leave the game. The least Nexon can do is cater to their paying customers by having good policies that encourage all players to stay (if not direct-purchase options of all outfitters, then a way to get those outfitters by playing, or at least the exchange shop option which seems to be missing with some gachapons), because I don't think paying customers will want to throw money at a dead game.
    With all these lucky box sales it really does seem that NA is on a steady decline since we have to rely on those sorts of tactics to gather enough money to stop the servers from shutting down.
  • DokkunDokkun
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    edited December 17, 2016
    We have had ways of obtaining items directly before anyway, through exchange shop tokens from gachas (orchid fauna coupons, viola witch tears, scarlet flutes ect) and as said above; you could obtain 2015s bf box via event. The black friday boxes this year were just a flash sale with returning items to entice people to impluse buy "before theyre gone!" imo

    BloodAngel
  • DealerDealer
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    edited December 17, 2016
    Delteros
    Delteros said:

    Dealer
    Dealer said:



    I'm confused, what do you mean by a mistake? Its not like this rule applies to NA.
    Aren't we always following KR and other region's rules?
    To me it seems like NA doesn't have a voice and we are always receiving the short end of the stick.

    Well if we aren't going to follow those sorts of rules, it would only be a matter of time before more players who do pay $$$ leave the game. The least Nexon can do is cater to their paying customers by having good policies that encourage all players to stay (if not direct-purchase options of all outfitters, then a way to get those outfitters by playing, or at least the exchange shop option which seems to be missing with some gachapons), because I don't think paying customers will want to throw money at a dead game.
    With all these lucky box sales it really does seem that NA is on a steady decline since we have to rely on those sorts of tactics to gather enough money to stop the servers from shutting down.
    Not exactly, I would say we somewhat follow KR, but I wouldn't say we are exactly like them, since we don't have the fatigue system and we don't post the exact % in gachapon boxes like they do. So something from CN probably wouldn't change much here, especially since our system already satisfies most if not all of these rules.

    CN system seems to be completely different, its closer to JPs where every single outfitter is in gachapon boxes or only obtained by throwing outfitter pieces (mostly obtained through spending) into a system with rates that even Ferghus and Brynn would feel guilty about offering to players.
    I was looking to see if this changed anything in CN, but I don't see anything different, they offered up another S class outfitter special (higher rate of obtaining these types right now) but no notice of what the rate is. They are directly selling B class sets as usual, and most seem to be for a limited time.
  • AbyssofthorAbyssofthor
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    edited December 17, 2016
    Dokkun
    Dokkun said:

    We have had ways of obtaining items directly before anyway, through exchange shop tokens from gachas (orchid fauna coupons, viola witch tears, scarlet flutes ect) and as said above; you could obtain 2015s bf box via event. The black friday boxes this year were just a flash sale with returning items to entice people to impluse buy "before theyre gone!" imo

    Yeah image there has never been a way to earn any gatch outfitters in anyway other way except spending money or a lot money in some cases so please don't even go there. When I mean the gatcha outfitters I mean really good ones like Iset or SQ set. The only other way other then getting a gatcha outfitter on rng box is too buy enough boxes to get enough coupons to exchange for said outfit. So for example imagine this you need 300 coupons and you get 1 coupon per box. That means you need 300 boxes to get enough coupons for and exchange and even at 1$ per box you make the math. image I am sorry but I trust rng boxes cough cough on been fair and actually random as much as anyone here would believe that I can push the earth with my bare hands out of the solar system. image

    That's a law in china and china has no jurisdiction in NA or KR.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    edited December 17, 2016
    Dealer
    Dealer said:


    Where though, can you quote it?
    I don't see anything like that, the only part that mentions direct purchase is the part that I quoted, which only requires another item with the same abilities to be available for direct purchase.
    So again our current outfitter system satisfies that completely.

    Also on the topic of shards that can be saved up would be the same as a direct purchase method as described by the article (its not like CN has this system anyways) and even if not if they price the item at lets say $700 for Succubus queen, how is that any better than the gachapons?
    (I picked $700 since that would be the price of not getting gachapon stacks and only getting 1 coupon per gachapon)
    "When the online game operation enterprise provides the virtual props and the value-added services in a random way, it should provide the users with other virtual props exchange, and other ways of obtaining the same performance virtual props and value-added services by using the online game virtual currency direct purchase.”

    You are the only one thus far who has attempted to interpret this as anything other than what it is. Direct purchase of both premium and regular outfitters is not the same as the requirement here. The requirement here is that 'it should provide the users with other virtual props exchange', i.e. tokens such as the shards, and 'other ways of obtaining the same performance virtual props and value-added services by using the online game virtual currency direct purchase', meaning the items within the boxes must be made available to buy outright or by playing the game, not only be obtainable by gambling on the boxes. None of this is currently satisfied by anything that Nexon or most other gaming operators have in place.

    I guess you're free to imagine it to read however you like, though.
  • DealerDealer
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    edited December 18, 2016
    Prototypemind

    Dealer
    Dealer said:


    Where though, can you quote it?
    I don't see anything like that, the only part that mentions direct purchase is the part that I quoted, which only requires another item with the same abilities to be available for direct purchase.
    So again our current outfitter system satisfies that completely.

    Also on the topic of shards that can be saved up would be the same as a direct purchase method as described by the article (its not like CN has this system anyways) and even if not if they price the item at lets say $700 for Succubus queen, how is that any better than the gachapons?
    (I picked $700 since that would be the price of not getting gachapon stacks and only getting 1 coupon per gachapon)
    "When the online game operation enterprise provides the virtual props and the value-added services in a random way, it should provide the users with other virtual props exchange, and other ways of obtaining the same performance virtual props and value-added services by using the online game virtual currency direct purchase.”

    You are the only one thus far who has attempted to interpret this as anything other than what it is. Direct purchase of both premium and regular outfitters is not the same as the requirement here. The requirement here is that 'it should provide the users with other virtual props exchange', i.e. tokens such as the shards, and 'other ways of obtaining the same performance virtual props and value-added services by using the online game virtual currency direct purchase', meaning the items within the boxes must be made available to buy outright or by playing the game, not only be obtainable by gambling on the boxes. None of this is currently satisfied by anything that Nexon or most other gaming operators have in place.

    I guess you're free to imagine it to read however you like, though.
    I guess you are free to imagine however you want it to be, but its always a problem when players get their hopes up and it ends up being something completely different.
    The wording is pretty clear "same performance virtual props" not "same virtual props", but we can just watch what CN Mabinogi Heroes actually does. Though so far they haven't changed anything or put up any notices about this stuff yet, and its been over a week since the Ministry's Notice.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    They aren't required to have it enacted until May of 2017, so I'm not surprised that they haven't made an announcement yet. Again, Nexon NA can do whatever it wants, and you've always been quick to rush to Nexon's defense as an employee rather than being objective, to the point of seeming glib about how poorly Nexon has treated players in general, but we shall see. Nexon Global is free to do whatever it wants, but with all the other games dropping next year that are better optimized and offer things to do outside of combat, you're going to be hard pressed to keep players around simply by gouging us on boxes.

    Honestly, if things like Vampire/Demon Hunter came direct purchase or could be bought in game with lower stats I wouldn't complain that they don't have the same boosts as the gotcha boxes, so long as they're available. Odds are, however, that considering the Ministry's stance, it will require that they be the same in every way.

    As to getting up my hopes, the item about displaying gotcha rates was only a strong suggestion for KR companies, but it was very swiftly enacted, and even though it was KR-only as a requirement, it became the norm for all of Nexon's regions. I doubt that this will go into place in CN and not here, but if it doesn't you can count me as one who will never spend another dime on a Nexon product. You guys do a great job of listening to what players want in some cases and then act like we're morons when it comes to some of our other desires, like actually getting value for our money. Do as you will though.
  • DealerDealer
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    edited December 18, 2016
    I'm not an employee, just a player, so the whole "you guys" thing is really off.
    I have to deal with the RNG, pricing, and ups and downs of the game like everyone else, I'm just not bothered by most of these things, if I don't like something I can just opt out of it just like anyone else, no one forces me to spend and most of this stuff is vanity anyways.

    We (as in this region) don't have the full rates displayed like KR I also haven't seen it on CN or EU either, so I'm not sure why you think KR's change actually came to other regions.
    For KR it was Nexon plus a few other gaming companies that decided to make that rule for themselves so nothing would be required of them later on.
    It was a nice effective thing for them, but it didn't spread to other regions like you say.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    Oh, I know NA doesn't do a full page layout of the rate for every single item, but they have started listing the likelihood of getting one of the main items in most of the boxes recently, and from that players tend to discuss the odds of getting any particular item that they want. Knowing that players do that and at times post the rates up from KR, I doubt that they'll be ignorant of the change in CN once it goes into effect, and I doubt that they'll be fine with seeing CN get that change and it not come here.

    As to me saying "you guys" I stand by that. Your replies tend to take the tone of someone who is on the inside with Nexon and needs to support their stances rather than someone who is simply a forum mod. It's something that many players have noted about both you and Aquasol in the past. If you feel otherwise that's fine, your position is your own.
  • DealerDealer
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    Yea I don't need to support anything, my opinion really is my own. Besides this really has little to do with Nexon (esp NA which is why I put this in off-topic).

    We really do have to wait and see what CN MH does about it before we start asking for what they have, since with the way this document is worded there are many ways that their system could still be worse than our own.