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There are a few factors I want to bring to attention: (based on prices on East)
1. Deflation. It seems that Nexon is doing a good job at banning bots lately, gold to dollar ratio has gone up drastically. I believe when talking about the value of +15 Lv. 90 weapons this cannot be ignored since it requires a massive input of both NX and gold to make one. Also let's not ignore the fact that such weapons are often traded for $. The highest selling +15 Lv 90 weapon I've seen was 6B gold + 15 ITB + SQ outfit, which comes down to about 10B gold value at that time. Link:
The value of gold (gold to $) at that time was around half of what it is now. So if a +15 Lv 90 weapon gets offered for 4-5 billion gold now it really hasn't lost any of its value at all.
2. AP cost of reviving remains the same but recent change to blowing up the weapon 2nd time does not give back mats. The AP cost of reviving dead weapons remains the same but there are very little reasons to spend ~20k AP to revive a +11 or +12 now since you will not get any mats back on second attempt. With this update I personally do not suggest reviving anything below a +13 because it basically has made AP to gold ratio very low. Thus in reality, at +11 and +12 players are left with really just 1 attempt per weapon because of this.
In the end in game items are priced for its rarity and the amount of time and NX input to make such item. At the current situation, the amount of time required to farm ~20k AP to revive a dead +12 should not only be worth 200 - 300m. The deflation of Lv 90 weapon essences happened because of the seal shop, but almost every other item in game remains the same value (infused accessories, r7 enchanted armor, various s3 mats). I also want to know if OP's prediction for +15's price in 6 month is based off current gold value, because if that's the case then curently 3-4B gold is roughly equivalent to 7-8B 2 months ago.
Technically its always been 1 attempt to make a +15 that is sellable. I assume most players booming weapons are those on characters that could use those weapons. I'd say +12 is worth resing for lvl 90, if you have a 3* Terminus set that is E/E, W/E, and S/D enchanted. That should reach the stat req for that new super hard raid.
My prediction is based off of what I've seen in the past. I was unaware of that 10 billion +15 buy. Another factor to this though is the +15 weapon. If someone made a +15 of every character weapon, I guarantee atleast one of them would fall within my range.
This is an excellent response. A disagreement backed by actual data and numbers. You could also argue that since mat return has been removed, it'll lead to less instant restart enhancing. Thank you for that insight. I respect that prediction, and we'll see how it plays out in 6 months. It'll be interesting revisiting this by then.
I'll update the main post with your prediction. By the way, have you been monitoring the status of Mysterious Shard prices and availability in KR? I know they have a much higher and active player base, but I'm curious as a comparison.
Ok, so i've checked some stuff on KR (sorry for the delay, they've had maintenance yesterday when i tried to log in).
IMPORTANT: KR has no inflation like NA servers do, so the prices which you see on the screenshots from KR, have value comparatively equal to around x10 less of your prices (tho it can be different depending on items, generally NA vs EU for example has inflation difference between x5-15 depending on item...). KR has basically the same monetary value as EU server, so i make conclusions based on comparing prices on EU vs KR.
First thing to mention, is that it seems that they don't have new seal shop ??
They still use old packages for 256 seals of bravery with RNG drop. Interesting... seems like EU/NA received 'a unique' update ...or whatever. However their prices aren't high as well. Around 2 months ago when i've checked, main weapon parts had price of 1kk+, which for some reason increased up to 2kk+ right now (maybe just some random market fluctuation), however secondary parts (mainly solid/smooth fragments) have higher value.
So the conclusion seems to be (at least for now), that our new seal shop model only balanced prices of secondary parts like smooth/solid along with other parts, without really changing much the price of the rest in overall.
As confirmation to the thing i've spoken about earlier, that enhanced weapons keep higher value due to enhancing costs:
That's an incredibly lazy statement to make. You can't say that for sure, unless you throw some numbers down to back it up. Plus your definition of "immense" might not add up to hardcore players. Max out the att limit release and run some testing, then start making statements. I'll agree with players doing it for bragging rights. You'd be surprised how many billions have been saved for it.
Derp. Its not lazy. It's simple. The attack cap for each dungeon and raid is now listed. And most, including myself, are well beyond those attack caps with just a +10 level 90 weapon. Further, these dungeons and raids were doable, and frankly more fun, when we were less OP.
You're just trying to live up to your name"Hustling", trying to create false, un-necessary hype to sell something for a higher price than what its currently selling for. That price is currently 15m on East.
Att limit release raises the cap. Like I said before, get some numbers going, then make statements. Your personal definition of immense is your own, it's not everyone else's.
That would make sense, if I had the shard. I don't though, so I have nothing to gain from it. Though you would love to collect 120 of them at 15mil a shard. Nice "Hustling" yourself.
This is an excellent response. A disagreement backed by actual data and numbers. You could also argue that since mat return has been removed, it'll lead to less instant restart enhancing. Thank you for that insight. I respect that prediction, and we'll see how it plays out in 6 months. It'll be interesting revisiting this by then.
I'll update the main post with your prediction. By the way, have you been monitoring the status of Mysterious Shard prices and availability in KR? I know they have a much higher and active player base, but I'm curious as a comparison.
Ok, so i've checked some stuff on KR (sorry for the delay, they've had maintenance yesterday when i tried to log in).
IMPORTANT: KR has no inflation like NA servers do, so the prices which you see on the screenshots from KR, have value comparatively equal to around x10 less of your prices (tho it can be different depending on items, generally NA vs EU for example has inflation difference between x5-15 depending on item...). KR has basically the same monetary value as EU server, so i make conclusions based on comparing prices on EU vs KR.
First thing to mention, is that it seems that they don't have new seal shop ??
They still use old packages for 256 seals of bravery with RNG drop. Interesting... seems like EU/NA received 'a unique' update ...or whatever. However their prices aren't high as well. Around 2 months ago when i've checked, main weapon parts had price of 1kk+, which for some reason increased up to 2kk+ right now (maybe just some random market fluctuation), however secondary parts (mainly solid/smooth fragments) have higher value.
So the conclusion seems to be (at least for now), that our new seal shop model only balanced prices of secondary parts like smooth/solid along with other parts, without really changing much the price of the rest in overall.
As confirmation to the thing i've spoken about earlier, that enhanced weapons keep higher value due to enhancing costs:
And your request about shards:
Thanks for looking into this. You happen to know how long KR has had the updated mat?
Att limit release raises the cap. Like I said before, get some numbers going, then make statements. Your personal definition of immense is your own, it's not everyone else's.
That would make sense, if I had the shard. I don't though, so I have nothing to gain from it. Though you would love to collect 120 of them at 15mil a shard. Nice "Hustling" yourself.
You want numbers? Here ya go. This was this morning at 7'ish Pacific Time.
They are selling for 10-15m everyday. Thats IF they sell. Sellers usually have to mega several times to get a buyer. I don't give a rats ass about the shard. I can currently solo every raid in this game on both my Sylas and my Lann. Lots of players are even better than me and are doing same with purple gear, or even level 80 gear. And these aren't players with +15 weapons.
To put things in further perspective for you, if I thought they were necessary, I'd already have them anyway...even at the price of your inflated imagination. And no, I don't buy gold.
lol the Abyssal shard is considered useless (unless if you are facetanking type), so no doubt the price going down rapidly However the Mysterious one is never to be that cheap, because it's very important stat Shippuu also mentioned it in future content section.
Yeah that's why I made a thread on the new Arena, and why lvl 60 should be run instead of lvl 80. Exactly, Shippuu has done the actual calculation work to show how immense the damage is. While others will lazily down play it without doing any calculation work.
Att limit release raises the cap. Like I said before, get some numbers going, then make statements. Your personal definition of immense is your own, it's not everyone else's.
That would make sense, if I had the shard. I don't though, so I have nothing to gain from it. Though you would love to collect 120 of them at 15mil a shard. Nice "Hustling" yourself.
You want numbers? Here ya go. This was this morning at 7'ish Pacific Time.
They are selling for 10-15m everyday. Thats IF they sell. Sellers usually have to mega several times to get a buyer. I don't give a rats ass about the shard. I can currently solo every raid in this game on both my Sylas and my Lann. Lots of players are even better than me and are doing same with purple gear, or even level 80 gear. And these aren't players with +15 weapons.
To put things in further perspective for you, if I thought they were necessary, I'd already have them anyway...even at the price of your inflated imagination. And no, I don't buy gold.
#rekt
You(like many others) need to work on their reading and comprehension. The argument between us was about the person saying the damage output from a 120 Mysterious Shard upgrade was not immense. The DAMAGE numbers are the ones they need to state, if they want to make that statement. Without it, it's just a lazy statement used in a "I feel this way" sort of manner.
That screen shot is about the abyssal shard, not the Mysterious Shard. You literally just made a statement to "rekt" someone, and not only failed to do it, but also "rekt'd" yourself by showing how dumb and uncredible you are. You need to sit this one out, because I won't waste my time again replying to uncredible forumers or ones that make lazy statements.
If +15 lvl 90 ever does become less than 2bil please let me know. I will definitely come back and gear up my main and two of my alts.
Once again, reading and comprehension. No one said less than 2 bil. It was 2 to 3 bil in 6 months. It's also not "dreaming", it's called statistics. If you'd like to disagree, then atleast make it an educated disagreement. Like DesireOfMine made. More numbers, less feelings.
You need to learn to read your own writing. The argument you threw in my face was about pricing, and I handed you your own ass, with supporting details as to why they're prob so cheap - because they are un-necessary if you have some git gud. Now, you mention its about a different shard..fine. The "Mysterious Shards" have been going for only 20m.
Try logging in some time and playing instead of being a forum troll and you'll see it. (ass handed to you a second time) I won't provide more evidence for someone who is dead intent on being a moron. And who cant spell INCREDIBLE, or did you actually mean "uncredible?" Which means "not able to be believed"? Because - theres a pic...where am I lying? About what? why would I?
Enjoy your dreams about shards...if you're this desperate about them, they won't make you any better and you should prob just uninstall.
Another reason why those shards are not worth to invest now if you take a look in future content, about the S3E2C3 test lived yesterday in KR, is the new lvl 95 set. That's why ppl rather keep their gold and gonna invest on it not lvl 90 anymore. so no one buy = price down, easy as that.
You need to learn to read your own writing. The argument you threw in my face was about pricing, and I handed you your own ass, with supporting details as to why they're prob so cheap - because they are un-necessary if you have some git gud. Now, you mention its about a different shard..fine. The "Mysterious Shards" have been going for only 20m.
Try logging in some time and playing instead of being a forum troll and you'll see it. (ass handed to you a second time) I won't provide more evidence for someone who is dead intent on being a moron. And who cant spell INCREDIBLE, or did you actually mean "uncredible?" Which means "not able to be believed"? Because - theres a pic...where am I lying? About what? why would I?
Enjoy your dreams about shards...if you're this desperate about them, they won't make you any better and you should prob just uninstall.
Exactly, when, where, and how. Need more screen shots of things that aren't Mysterious Shards and more statements saying, "It is this way, because I said so". Because people like that should obviously be able to be believed. *rollseyes*
Not doubting though that one will ever not be sold at 20mil. There are players that have no idea of it's value or what it does. Part of this thread is to help with that. I'm sure some have already been NPC vendored by new players or low lvl players in the Royal Raids.
You need to learn to read your own writing. The argument you threw in my face was about pricing, and I handed you your own ass, with supporting details as to why they're prob so cheap - because they are un-necessary if you have some git gud. Now, you mention its about a different shard..fine. The "Mysterious Shards" have been going for only 20m.
Try logging in some time and playing instead of being a forum troll and you'll see it. (ass handed to you a second time) I won't provide more evidence for someone who is dead intent on being a moron. And who cant spell INCREDIBLE, or did you actually mean "uncredible?" Which means "not able to be believed"? Because - theres a pic...where am I lying? About what? why would I?
Enjoy your dreams about shards...if you're this desperate about them, they won't make you any better and you should prob just uninstall.
have a nice life
I'm pretty sure if mysterious shard was worth 20m half of our population would attempt to buy them all out right now.
1: The Abyssal shard is worth much less than the Mysterious shard, for the reasons already stated above. Stop comparing them.
2: The Mysterious shard is not worth nearly as much as you claim as of right now. Perhaps in the future once the number of people at that stage of the game grows high enough. If you believe and advocate that it's worth more than the numbers say, keep it. Don't tell us what to believe. Don't disparage us for taking a forum post with a grain of salt. Because right now I go by how easy it is to sell, and It's not selling. So it's worth 0g.
3: No one npcs shards. All shards show colors, which indicates value to even the densest vindi newbie. All things that show a marketplace guesstimate of over 1m, low level people sell. Period. Go watch someone streaming low-level sometime. That kind of profit means so much to them.
While theoretically speaking +15 lvl 90s shud come down, another thing to keep in mind is that our population is quite low and will continue to be due to the nature of nexon and just vindictus being an old game that simply cant keep up with newer games. As such, the number of +15 lvl 90 weapons wont be as common. But then again, since the population is low and gold generation is low due to all of these events and exchange shops, even if +15s were to pop up, the demand may not be there either which forces people to lower the prices. It really depends on the market, how desperate buyers and sellers are, and just luck. Gotta be selling at the right place and at the right time.
Regarding "immense" boost from the attk limit, to give you perspective on how much boost it is, a full 2000 attack limit release weapon compared to 0 attack limit release weapon is about the same amount of additional damage difference from a +10 to a +14 (not including speed). This approximates to about a 15.6% dps increase from +10 to +14. My source: i recall Shippuu mentioning it early on in the Vindi Discord. Whether this fact is still true I am unsure of. But I was one of the two pioneers of the vindi discord and am rather credible in the vindi community. Even so, you can confirm with Shippuu who is definitely very credible just to make sure. i feel tho the number I gave is reasonable and shudnt be too far off.
Whether you find a 15.6% increase immense or not is up to you. If you wanna break it down, i kno you need 3 mystery shard to boost attk limit by 50. So 2000/50 is 40 and 15.6/40 is .39. So for every 3 mystery shard, you boost ur overall dps by .39%. Those are the hard cold numbers
Comments
1. Deflation. It seems that Nexon is doing a good job at banning bots lately, gold to dollar ratio has gone up drastically. I believe when talking about the value of +15 Lv. 90 weapons this cannot be ignored since it requires a massive input of both NX and gold to make one. Also let's not ignore the fact that such weapons are often traded for $. The highest selling +15 Lv 90 weapon I've seen was 6B gold + 15 ITB + SQ outfit, which comes down to about 10B gold value at that time. Link:
http://vindictus.nexon.net/Community/#/showthread.php?1528597-TTW-PC-S-gt-15-Righteous-Judgment-3*-2-Crit-Regina-Spears&highlight=raigore&nxid=15
The value of gold (gold to $) at that time was around half of what it is now. So if a +15 Lv 90 weapon gets offered for 4-5 billion gold now it really hasn't lost any of its value at all.
2. AP cost of reviving remains the same but recent change to blowing up the weapon 2nd time does not give back mats. The AP cost of reviving dead weapons remains the same but there are very little reasons to spend ~20k AP to revive a +11 or +12 now since you will not get any mats back on second attempt. With this update I personally do not suggest reviving anything below a +13 because it basically has made AP to gold ratio very low. Thus in reality, at +11 and +12 players are left with really just 1 attempt per weapon because of this.
In the end in game items are priced for its rarity and the amount of time and NX input to make such item. At the current situation, the amount of time required to farm ~20k AP to revive a dead +12 should not only be worth 200 - 300m. The deflation of Lv 90 weapon essences happened because of the seal shop, but almost every other item in game remains the same value (infused accessories, r7 enchanted armor, various s3 mats). I also want to know if OP's prediction for +15's price in 6 month is based off current gold value, because if that's the case then curently 3-4B gold is roughly equivalent to 7-8B 2 months ago.
Feel free to comment.
My prediction is based off of what I've seen in the past. I was unaware of that 10 billion +15 buy. Another factor to this though is the +15 weapon. If someone made a +15 of every character weapon, I guarantee atleast one of them would fall within my range.
IMPORTANT: KR has no inflation like NA servers do, so the prices which you see on the screenshots from KR, have value comparatively equal to around x10 less of your prices (tho it can be different depending on items, generally NA vs EU for example has inflation difference between x5-15 depending on item...). KR has basically the same monetary value as EU server, so i make conclusions based on comparing prices on EU vs KR.
First thing to mention, is that it seems that they don't have new seal shop ??
They still use old packages for 256 seals of bravery with RNG drop. Interesting... seems like EU/NA received 'a unique' update
Screenshots from 10.10.2016: http://imgur.com/a/ehYln
Screenshots from 30.11.2016 (now): http://imgur.com/a/8QQEc
So the conclusion seems to be (at least for now), that our new seal shop model only balanced prices of secondary parts like smooth/solid along with other parts, without really changing much the price of the rest in overall.
As confirmation to the thing i've spoken about earlier, that enhanced weapons keep higher value due to enhancing costs:
And your request about shards:
You're just trying to live up to your name"Hustling", trying to create false, un-necessary hype to sell something for a higher price than what its currently selling for. That price is currently 15m on East.
Deal with it.
That would make sense, if I had the shard. I don't though, so I have nothing to gain from it. Though you would love to collect 120 of them at 15mil a shard. Nice "Hustling" yourself.
Thanks for looking into this. You happen to know how long KR has had the updated mat?
They are selling for 10-15m everyday. Thats IF they sell. Sellers usually have to mega several times to get a buyer.
I don't give a rats ass about the shard. I can currently solo every raid in this game on both my Sylas and my Lann. Lots of players are even better than me and are doing same with purple gear, or even level 80 gear. And these aren't players with +15 weapons.
To put things in further perspective for you, if I thought they were necessary, I'd already have them anyway...even at the price of your inflated imagination. And no, I don't buy gold.
#rekt
If +15 lvl 90 ever does become less than 2bil please let me know. I will definitely come back and gear up my main and two of my alts.
However the Mysterious one is never to be that cheap, because it's very important stat Shippuu also mentioned it in future content section.
When did the Mysterious Shard release in KR is what I was referring too.
You(like many others) need to work on their reading and comprehension. The argument between us was about the person saying the damage output from a 120 Mysterious Shard upgrade was not immense. The DAMAGE numbers are the ones they need to state, if they want to make that statement. Without it, it's just a lazy statement used in a "I feel this way" sort of manner.
That screen shot is about the abyssal shard, not the Mysterious Shard. You literally just made a statement to "rekt" someone, and not only failed to do it, but also "rekt'd" yourself by showing how dumb and uncredible you are. You need to sit this one out, because I won't waste my time again replying to uncredible forumers or ones that make lazy statements.
Once again, reading and comprehension. No one said less than 2 bil. It was 2 to 3 bil in 6 months. It's also not "dreaming", it's called statistics. If you'd like to disagree, then atleast make it an educated disagreement. Like DesireOfMine made. More numbers, less feelings.
Try logging in some time and playing instead of being a forum troll and you'll see it. (ass handed to you a second time) I won't provide more evidence for someone who is dead intent on being a moron. And who cant spell INCREDIBLE, or did you actually mean "uncredible?" Which means "not able to be believed"? Because - theres a pic...where am I lying? About what? why would I?
Enjoy your dreams about shards...if you're this desperate about them, they won't make you any better and you should prob just uninstall.
have a nice life
so no one buy = price down, easy as that.
I'll buy it, COD Mushroom!!!
Not doubting though that one will ever not be sold at 20mil. There are players that have no idea of it's value or what it does. Part of this thread is to help with that. I'm sure some have already been NPC vendored by new players or low lvl players in the Royal Raids.
1: The Abyssal shard is worth much less than the Mysterious shard, for the reasons already stated above. Stop comparing them.
2: The Mysterious shard is not worth nearly as much as you claim as of right now. Perhaps in the future once the number of people at that stage of the game grows high enough.
If you believe and advocate that it's worth more than the numbers say, keep it. Don't tell us what to believe. Don't disparage us for taking a forum post with a grain of salt. Because right now I go by how easy it is to sell, and It's not selling. So it's worth 0g.
3: No one npcs shards. All shards show colors, which indicates value to even the densest vindi newbie. All things that show a marketplace guesstimate of over 1m, low level people sell. Period. Go watch someone streaming low-level sometime. That kind of profit means so much to them.
Regarding "immense" boost from the attk limit, to give you perspective on how much boost it is, a full 2000 attack limit release weapon compared to 0 attack limit release weapon is about the same amount of additional damage difference from a +10 to a +14 (not including speed). This approximates to about a 15.6% dps increase from +10 to +14. My source: i recall Shippuu mentioning it early on in the Vindi Discord. Whether this fact is still true I am unsure of. But I was one of the two pioneers of the vindi discord and am rather credible in the vindi community. Even so, you can confirm with Shippuu who is definitely very credible just to make sure. i feel tho the number I gave is reasonable and shudnt be too far off.
Whether you find a 15.6% increase immense or not is up to you. If you wanna break it down, i kno you need 3 mystery shard to boost attk limit by 50. So 2000/50 is 40 and 15.6/40 is .39. So for every 3 mystery shard, you boost ur overall dps by .39%. Those are the hard cold numbers