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NEXON = About Guilds...

chicanechicane
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edited April 15, 2020 in General Discussion
Since so many players have not been playing, (https://steamcharts.com/app/212160), <---Yes, Steam, no data on Launcher players)
Guilds are not getting as many points as they used to. Perhaps the Guild Missions can be adjusted to reflect that? Maybe Fewer bosses needed daily, Fewer raids, or more points for the Daily Guild Missions? Having to cut Guild Skills down Really SUCKS !!!

Can really make a difference - DOUBLE GUILD POINTS !
BabyDaniSwornKnightmere0riesaylbdr

Comments

  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    unknown.png

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  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    edited April 20, 2020
    Cloakshire wrote: »
    *snip*

    Cute and all, but any guild that isn't one of the huge active ones looks more like this. GXI7kfP.jpg

    EDIT: We can always just recruit all those new players coming to this game! Oh, wait...
    PrototypemindIcygoddessaylbdr
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    Cloakshire wrote: »
    "Sassy post"

    Cute of you to act like your guild is the norm. Many that were formally very active are next to dead now. If the guild isn't full of whales or others without too much sunk cost to feel they can easily walk away it's likely a ghost town. Perhaps next time offer something constructive rather than acting like your fringe case is what most players are running into at the moment.

    As to the OP - double guild points wouldn't be a bad idea at all. My only worry would be considering they've ignored requests around fatigue I'd say it's unlikely they'll pay attention to this. Even the community mods barely surface in the forums anymore, let alone Nexon staff, but here's hoping they do something to keep the game from dying. Nexon's pushing heavily on their dime-a-dozen mobile games, so I don't have the highest hopes for Vindi getting much support.
    chicaneIcygoddessaylbdrKirra
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    edited April 21, 2020
    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    We can always just recruit all those new players coming to this game! Oh, wait...

    You quite literally just provided the solution to your problem. Try making an effort by doing something about it. I don't recall seeing Nightcap recruitment messages in server chat much, and you only have one half baked msg in the #Na_guild_recruitment section of discord from over a year ago. If you want more points, get more people by going out of your way to find them and/or make an updated recruitment post. S4 release today so prime time to jump on it since we'll have more returning players.

    Cute of you to act like your guild is the norm. Many that were formally very active are next to dead now. If the guild isn't full of whales or others without too much sunk cost to feel they can easily walk away it's likely a ghost town. Perhaps next time offer something constructive rather than acting like your fringe case is what most players are running into at the moment

    More so making the point that if one guild can maintain a larger count of players, any guild has the potential to. We constantly seek out unguilded people to replenish those that quit the game. A section of our members could fall under the concept of a revolving door. We go out of our way to recruit masses of people only to have 75% quit after a few weeks and so we continue going out of our way tenaciously to keep our numbers up. We have our share of long term players like Nightcap does, but if you're not constantly replacing those that leave, you'll fall behind.

    Now that I've given my more "constructive," reasoning for you, this is what I see looking at OP's post. While I wouldn't mind double GP, it's not something I'd go out of my way to ask for. What I see is a small guild, speaking literally not condescendingly, that wants the benefits of having a larger guild without having to put forth the same effort that the lager guilds do to maintain their larger count/activity. Hence my cute & sassy reply b/c all I see is someone complaining about something that they should have full power in fixing for themselves.
  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    Cloakshire wrote: »
    *snip*

    Dude I could make posts hourly and there's absolutely ZERO goddamn way we're ever getting literally millions of guild points like you have, apparently. There's several skills that are around 5k each for a week, times 52 weeks is 260,000 GP, and there's a few skills that are 5k...

    Like she linked above, there's around 400 people who play this game on Steam, and even if you're incredibly generous and say that the Nexon Launcher has 800, that's still 1,200 people MAX, most of whom are either well established with other guilds, or have a passing interest at best in the game and disappear after a few play sessions. We advertise a bit but find that we get players who aren't particularly interested in the game and quit before even putting in 1,000 GP. With bullshit like this fatigue system, even some of our more interested player seem to have quit or are taking long breaks.

    Right now, fresh off of a content update, there's 500 people. Now this evening it might go even higher but I doubt it cracks 1,000 players even. My point stands that there's basically zero chance of ever getting anywhere near that level of production of GP, I don't care if I recruited hourly every day.
    mere0riesaylbdr
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    edited April 21, 2020
    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Dude I could make posts hourly and there's absolutely ZERO goddamn way we're ever getting literally millions of guild points like you have, apparently. There's several skills that are around 5k each for a week, times 52 weeks is 260,000 GP, and there's a few skills that are 5k...

    Don't just recruit through posts. We did the following:
    -Kept eyes on the now former lvl 90 quest raids for new players to see if they were un-guilded.
    -Any time we'd see an unguilded player in town lvl 20+, we'd usually grab them.
    -Scour the rankings for unguilded players.
    -Tag along with randoms in s2 through their questing to build relationships and offer the invite.
    -Inspect low title count lvl90+ character's and go out of our way to offer help & advice for their gearing and progression. (We even do this one to people in other guilds. Some people have left their guilds and come to us b/c they see how we went out of our way to offer advice to them when their guild did not).
    -GL posts recruitment & guild event stuff in discord to garner recognition.
    -Some of us produce content (streaming/YT) and when players see the guild affiliation they have an inclination to check us out.
    -If we noticed someone struggling in a raid or complaining in server chat, we'd reach out and offer advice which would lead to GK being considered by the individuals we help. (Remember when you complained about Cromm in server chat; I was one that reached out to you).

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Like she linked above, there's around 400 people who play this game on Steam, and even if you're incredibly generous and say that the Nexon Launcher has 800, that's still 1,200 people MAX

    You really need to learn how to read a steam chart. There is not around 400 people that play on steam. Valve collects the total number of players online every 60 minutes. The 415 people you're referring to is from 04/12/2020 where we peaked at 415 players online at 2PM CST. It does not take into account the number of individual and differentiated players that log on/off throughout the day. But hey, I like some stats, so let me examine the peaks, troughs, and counts for that day and give you a potential number of individual players instead of just a peak time number that you're misinterpreting.
    You cannot assume that the same people logging off throughout the day are the exact same people that log in. You have to take your starting number of players for the day and add every total increase to it throughout the day to find the total number of potential individual players. Assuming I did it right, we had closer to a potential 500 individual players log in that day, granted they were not logged in at the same time obviously. This is still a very conservative estimatiion though as steam only tracks player count every 60 minutes and therefore does not track people that log in and out between their count scans. So there's potentially more than my conservative 471.
    unknown.png

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Right now, fresh off of a content update, there's 500 people. Now this evening it might go even higher but I doubt it cracks 1,000 players even. My point stands that there's basically zero chance of ever getting anywhere near that level of production of GP, I don't care if I recruited hourly every day.

    Then just like against Cromm, you've given up. I handed you our recruitment techniques to help increase your guild count and by extension GP. Buckle down & get to it rather than complaining. Don't rely on Nexon to make the game easier. Don't say there's zero chance "IF" you try something unless you've tried it before. Make an actual effort in your recruitment endeavors and you might be surprised. Once you get people in, it's all about engagement to keep them going. You said before that the only reason you play is b/c your friend does. Well, similar to how your friend keeps you playing, try bonding with newer players so that you can become their reason for playing.
    Crystal_Rose
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    Cloakshire wrote: »
    More inanity

    Yes, one should make it a literal part-time job to keep their guild points up to offset Nexon's incompetence that has caused the problem in the first place. You sure white knight hard for this game, acting as though GM's and players are at fault for its horrid state and should be the ones stretching themselves thin to make up for the shortfall. "Tenacious" recruitment to remain active shouldn't be necessary and that you think it's the fault of some smaller guild for not being aggressive enough to continually replace lost numbers speaks well to how blind you are to the reality of the situation. I'm not going to argue it with you anymore, it's clear you're not able to understand the perspective of most players while perched on your high horse. I know a few players over on Blade & Soul that you're probably friends with because I swear some of you will blame the masses until the day the servers shutdown.

    We don't need to rely on Nexon to make the game easier, but we should be able to rely on them to make it fun and accommodating for the people who actually have put in the time and dollars that allow it to keep functioning at all. Clearly that we cannot do, nor can we count on the most outspoken "lovers" of the game to understand things as they are and support other players rather than blame them for not "properly" navigating the refuse pile we're wading through at the moment in a way that keeps their guild numbers up.
    FlameSama1Icygoddesschicanemere0riesaylbdrKirra
  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    edited April 21, 2020
    Cloakshire wrote: »
    *snip*

    Did you really just hit me with a math quiz just to arrive at literally the same conclusion I did? "There's like 500 people who play this game on Steam daily." "No there's not, there's actually some math later 500, that's a totally different outcome!"

    I, on average, put three hours a day into my own playing (again SOLELY because my guildmate doesn't play literally anything else), am I supposed to make propping up a guild in a dead game a career? Spending hours scouring every last unguilded player, all three of them that exist in this game?

    Our Discord has a channel dedicated to guides to help players out. Chicane and I go out of our way to try to help people out. We DO post megas recruiting and I usually ask anyone who doesn't have a guild, regardless of level or skill, if they'd like to join. Resulting usually in either no comment, or someone joining, playing for a week. then quitting. Best case scenario we get someone who uses their alt character to steal all of our guild crops and literally nothing else, or signs on and just does their own thing even if we try to involve them in our raids or missions or whatever. EDIT: I've offered gold to people I know IRL, literally tried to bribe friends to play this and no interest.

    The game itself is severely unhealthy, it's propped up entirely by players who spend hundreds of dollars on microtransactions. Even some of those types of players are turned off from playing the game across NA, EU, and Korea. They implement changes no one asked for and do things like block certain countries from playing and add the RIDICULOUS fatigue system where playing new missions cost 28% **** percent to run once. Why? Why would I dare put effort into this game when Nexon has such open contempt for its userbase? Adding a battle pass system on top of the endless gachapon boxes and 120 dollar 'comrades' is gross and even talking about it makes me seethe.

    Why do you put up with this game? The combat is fun, kinda. Hardly fun enough to justify all the other ways in which the game tries to **** you, or the baffling design choices like say, for a random example, guild battle bosses not counting towards the bosses daily guild mission. A dozen trash design choices compounded into a miserable experience of a game. Like today's "BRAND NEW CONTENT", which consists of two missions. One of which is entirely recycled content, and the other is a raid which is only half recycled content. The more I talk about it, the more I think this game is absolute trash, and I fail to see why I should put more effort into it than Nexon does.

    EDIT: And I don't know what planet you're from, but gushing praise for this game while being vaguely condescending towards others isn't 'helping' anyone for **** friendo.
    mere0riesPrototypemindaylbdr
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    edited April 21, 2020
    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Did you really just hit me with a math quiz just to arrive at literally the same conclusion I did? "There's like 500 people who play this game on Steam daily." "No there's not, there's actually some math later 500, that's a totally different outcome!"

    Did you really just twist the conversation? You referenced chicane's OP and stated 400 to which I researched and found to be based on the 415 peak back on 4/12. I stated that on 4/12, there was not 400, but more in the form of a potential 471 which I phrased as being close to 500. I then added on that since steam only logs every hr, it doesn't take into account log ins and outs that happen between their hourly scans, so it's likely higher than my conservative 500. You specified that your 500 player count number was from "right now, fresh off a new content update." Last time I checked, today and 4/12 are not the same day. Sooo nice conflation.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    I, on average, put three hours a day into my own playing (again SOLELY because my guildmate doesn't play literally anything else), am I supposed to make propping up a guild in a dead game a career? Spending hours scouring every last unguilded player, all three of them that exist in this game?

    Not really a career or part time job as proto puts it. Most of the things I listed just happen naturally alongside playing. It's not about dedicating yourself to only recruitment, but rather just keeping an open eye out for the opportunities. But hey, if taking 10 minutes out of your 3-4 hr play session to help a few people so you can potentially recruit them is too much, I can see why you're having a problem. It's something that'll take weeks which sounds like a lot, but like I said, it's only ~10min of your day. Over time, you'll get more. If we can do it, which we somehow do without even trying that hard, no reason why you can't. Nightcap is after all, your guild and your responsibility.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    The game itself is severely unhealthy, it's propped up entirely by players who spend hundreds of dollars on microtransactions. Even some of those types of players are turned off from playing the game across NA, EU, and Korea. They implement changes no one asked for and do things like block certain countries from playing and add the RIDICULOUS fatigue system where playing new missions cost 28% **** percent to run once. Why? Why would I dare put effort into this game when Nexon has such open contempt for its userbase? Adding a battle pass system on top of the endless gachapon boxes and 120 dollar 'comrades' is gross and even talking about it makes me seethe.

    Why do you put up with this game? The combat is fun, kinda. Hardly fun enough to justify all the other ways in which the game tries to **** you, or the baffling design choices like say, for a random example, guild battle bosses not counting towards the bosses daily guild mission. A dozen trash design choices compounded into a miserable experience of a game. Like today's "BRAND NEW CONTENT", which consists of two missions. One of which is entirely recycled content, and the other is a raid which is only half recycled content. The more I talk about it, the more I think this game is absolute trash, and I fail to see why I should put more effort into it than Nexon does.

    EDIT: And I don't know what planet you're from, but gushing praise for this game while being vaguely condescending towards others isn't 'helping' anyone for **** friendo.

    The game has a LOT of problems. The greedy nature, the IP restrictions, fatigue, being 32bit still, optimization, etc. I don't like any of it either, but you ask why would you dare put effort into the game still? Well, you want more GP for guild benefits so that you can support your guild? Relying on a deaf company to make that change ain't gonna happen so if you want it bad enough, you'll bite the bullet and do what you gotta do to raise your GP. If not, then like I said, you've given up not just on the game, but on your guild as well.


    You ask why I put up with this game? Well, my reasons for playing are what keep me here and outweigh the cons imo.
    -I enjoy the combat system. I'm a sucker for hack and slashers (KH, DMC, GoW, etc) that have high skill ceilings. I'd repeat the same fight thousands of times over and still not get bored b/c I don't raid for drops. For me, it's all about the fight. If I have room to improve, which I do, then I still have fun. Only when I'm able to play perfectly (hyper aggressive, taking all openings, and not getting hit at all) do I consider a boss mastered. Even then, continuing to do the same fight doesn't bore me b/c the execution of pulling off perfect play once a boss is mastered is satisfying to me.

    -I enjoy the company and camaraderie with my guild as well as some good friendships I've made. I enjoy helping others & knowing that I made a difference in their time here. I like being a mentor. Also got some good friends I've made in GK after being in a solo guild for 6 years b/c I was stubborn. And the fact that we play a game whose combat I enjoy tremendously is an added bonus.

    So yeah, I literally log on with the dual mentality of "Hmmm, who do I wanna go fight today? & I wonder if I can help someone today and make a difference."
    I like Vindictus just b/c to me, it's fun and satisfying despite it's numerous flaws.

    EDIT: Also, I'm not gushing praise nor would I say I'm white knighting right now. The game is run like a shitshow most of the time, and I'm not trying to defend Nexon's cavalcade of fk ups. I just don't think that your shortage of GP is Nexon's fault, but rather you just making excuses for something you don't want to take control of and fix for yourself.
  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    Wow dude, 4/20 was yesterday you know right? I'd love to have some of whatever you were smoking. Yeah okay, argue semantics over how 400 and 500 are TOTALLY different numbers when there are games on Steam with a few hundred thousand players and this game, at its absolute peak, wasn't near that.

    Back at it again with that smug condescending tone while maintaining that you're just oh so 'helpful'. Yeah bud, you guys effortlessly got a couple million guild points. Bet. I like how it's that we're just not working hard enough, while you're trying to humblebrag about not trying all that hard to have a lot of guild activity. You're truly hilarious lol.
    mere0riesaylbdr
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    edited April 22, 2020
    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Wow dude, 4/20 was yesterday you know right? I'd love to have some of whatever you were smoking. Yeah okay, argue semantics over how 400 and 500 are TOTALLY different numbers when there are games on Steam with a few hundred thousand players and this game, at its absolute peak, wasn't near that.

    Because they are just like how 4/12 and 4/21 are two different days. Didn't think it'd be that complicated. And nah, I don't smoke b/c that stuff actually wires me up and makes me paranoid AF. You could always hit up TitePony in game though, he'll provide the hookup.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Back at it again with that smug condescending tone while maintaining that you're just oh so 'helpful'. Yeah bud, you guys effortlessly got a couple million guild points. Bet. I like how it's that we're just not working hard enough, while you're trying to humblebrag about not trying all that hard to have a lot of guild activity. You're truly hilarious lol.

    Well yeah because you're just whining at this point so I'm gonna be sarcastic and condescending. Bet huh? You only need 15 active people to maintain all the benefits at the highest tier, or 23 people if you take away the 30 boss kill mission. So if you go out of your way to find at least 21 more active people, and another 5 or 10 semi actives to make up for the off days that your actives don't play, you'd fix your issue. Hop to it.
  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    400 and some and 500 on the dot, for all intents and purposes, are the same damn number. You're the one trying to argue about how that extra 70 people makes all the difference and somehow invalidates my overall point about how dead this game is. If that's a hill you wanna die on, that's on you lol.

    "only need 15-23 active people" I have neither the time nor the crayons to illustrate to you how divorced from reality this take is. Even bigger guilds are drying up judging by the amount of higher end players I see looking for guilds (all of whom pass on a Nightcap invite, I ask them, for the record). If the game's population wasn't totally dead, this conversation wouldn't even be happening.

    But by all means, deepthroat Nexon, they *totally* deserve the praise.
    mere0riesaylbdr
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    edited April 22, 2020
    Hey @FlameSama1 I just found "all three," unguilded new players on the server in a Neam run. I was nice and carried them through, offered advice mid battle, and sent invites. Two out of the three joined. Why don't you go for the 3rd person since they're the last available new unguilded player on the server. #RecruitmentIsImpossible

    And who's praising Nexon? I just like a good hack n slasher. Idc who runs a game as long as I have fun playing.
  • aylbdraylbdr
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    edited April 28, 2020
    Cloakshire wrote: »
    While I wouldn't mind double GP, it's not something I'd go out of my way to ask for. What I see is a small guild, speaking literally not condescendingly, that wants the benefits of having a larger guild without having to put forth the same effort that the lager guilds do to maintain their larger count/activity. Hence my cute & sassy reply b/c all I see is someone complaining about something that they should have full power in fixing for themselves.


    Of course you wouldn't go out of your way for that. Everyone knows you only go out of your way when it either affects you personally in a way you don't like, or (as is the case here) to bash on what others have complaints of, especially when they actually have a valid complaint. Just to be vindictive I assume. What other reason is there to do such a thing really?

    Do I need to remind you that we used to get all the guild skills For Free?
    Icygoddess
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    edited April 29, 2020
    aylbdr wrote: »
    Of course you wouldn't go out of your way for that. Everyone knows you only go out of your way when it either affects you personally in a way you don't like, or (as is the case here) to bash on what others have complaints of, especially when they actually have a valid complaint. Just to be vindictive I assume. What other reason is there to do such a thing really?

    Do I need to remind you that we used to get all the guild skills For Free?

    *YAWN* Talk about being fashionably late to the party. Ima make this really simple for you. It's not that I would only go out of my way if and when issues affect me personally, oh no, that's not the case. I'm here because while their complaints are valid, their reasoning for it is hollow BS (at least imo).
    Issue: They're having GP problems due to low guild player count/activity.
    Solution: Recruit.

    Followup Issue: They don't want to recruit people because new players aren't common, game's dead, too much effort, insert filler reason here.
    Solution: Stop making excuses for the sake of keeping your complaint alive, and get to work recruiting b/c that's how to fix the issue. (I know for a fact that they're just excuses because on that same day, we brought in 13 people without much effort & we don't even have a guild intro XD).

    However, when this thread died a week ago, I started keeping an eye on Nightcap from both the outside & inside. I've noticed more server chat recruitment messages from NC. FlameSama made an actual recruitment message in Discord a couple days ago instead a half baked one like their last post from over a year ago. Needless to say, it looks like they took my advice & starting putting forth some effort. They've gained 21 new players as of right now and have more guild skills active along with 15,000 more GP than before.. *clap clap* The reward you get should be tied to the amount of effort you put into something & it looks like they're putting forth the effort finally. +wow

    A much BETTER idea would have been to suggest double GP events and/or giving new guilds double GP for 30 days to help get them started. Those would have been better suggestions imo.

    PS: Flame, if you came back to see this, I'm glad to see that NC is improving and in a better place than it was a week ago.
  • noctrednoctred
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    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Why do you put up with this game?

    Because everything else is as bad or worse.

    I quit a long while back and tried to go back to other games I used to play - Tera, BnS, BDO, Aion, Kritika, DFO, Closers... and I'm back here again because the grass isn't greener anywhere else. KMMOs are one-dimensional in what they offer and it really just comes down to finding a game where the gameplay and social environment are enjoyable enough to numb the pain of getting fucked by the people running things.

    I could just not play anything, but that's no fun.