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Game feels dead :(

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  • DragonRiderDragonRider
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    As i told you before. When you reach this point of the game you have to decide.
    Do you have enough money/time to invest into this game to have the necessary gears to advance ?
    Are you willing to put it in?
    If the answer is yes, you can reach a good enough set fro sure and grind enough to buy or create a weapon to use.

    Is this system good? Probably not, probably serves the elitist too much, but fine its open for everyone who has enough time or money.

    In my case the time is not there anymore, and I am not willing to pay either, so game over for me.
    I am not happy because the game and the community is fun, but the dead weight feeling in a party is not for me.

    You made a quitting thread a few months ago saying you're quitting forever. Yet you're still HERE IN JULY, complaining, STILL PLAYING THE GAME. nobody takes you seriously.
    Amenari
  • sadrazamsadrazam
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    Atherion wrote: »
    sadrazam wrote: »
    Atherion wrote: »
    Well this explains a lot, you went full Astera without a proper budget or roadmap. .

    Implying a roadmap is useful in an extreme RNG based game like vindictus. lol
    Implying a budget is relevant in an extremely RNG based game like vindictus
    That`s like saying you didn`t win gambling at las vegas because you didn`t carefully plan out your budget.

    And have you heard of the concept of risk and reward? Sure something can rng dependent but you can still budget around it when provided with rates.

    Just to give you an example, using the rates from failstacking taken from the game, 13-14 on average takes 3 reforges to succeed and 14-15 takes 6. You can set a budget to prepare for the average or worst case scenario. Calculate the steels and mats required to theoretically achieve your goal and.... congrats you got a budget for that particular item!

    1 in a million people win the lottery, lets put a budget aside enough to buy 1 million lotteries!
    Risk reward is not applicable on rng, gambling addiction is.

  • SoulKingSoulKing
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    edited July 10, 2019
    sadrazam wrote: »
    Atherion wrote: »
    sadrazam wrote: »
    Atherion wrote: »
    Well this explains a lot, you went full Astera without a proper budget or roadmap. .

    Implying a roadmap is useful in an extreme RNG based game like vindictus. lol
    Implying a budget is relevant in an extremely RNG based game like vindictus
    That`s like saying you didn`t win gambling at las vegas because you didn`t carefully plan out your budget.

    And have you heard of the concept of risk and reward? Sure something can rng dependent but you can still budget around it when provided with rates.

    Just to give you an example, using the rates from failstacking taken from the game, 13-14 on average takes 3 reforges to succeed and 14-15 takes 6. You can set a budget to prepare for the average or worst case scenario. Calculate the steels and mats required to theoretically achieve your goal and.... congrats you got a budget for that particular item!

    1 in a million people win the lottery, lets put a budget aside enough to buy 1 million lotteries!
    Risk reward is not applicable on rng, gambling addiction is.

    That's a bad analogy. With failstacking you are guaranteed to get to your end goal within a reasonable amount of time as long as you put in the effort. The "same" can be said for the lottery, but those chances will always remain ridiculously low with no help whatsoever in getting a 100% success.

    And yes, actually, risk/reward is highly applicable to RNG. Just not in Vindi's case because there's no "risk" anymore now that you can continue on with reforging. Before during double boom you could very well consider it risk/reward as you were putting your weapon on the line for a greater reward. No longer the case.
  • AtherionAtherion
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    Lol comparing winning the lottery to failstacking equipment in Vindictus to 15, how dense can you be? You can budget around anything as long as you are provided with the rates to do so. The payoff on the other hand will ofcourse depend on how much risk someone is willing to take on but that is mitigated in Vindictus via failstacking.

    And besides, we are talking about failstacking something to 15, not 1 shotting to 20 where a comparison to winning the lottery might actually be applicable. So this comparison you keep trying to make is pretty laughable my dude.
  • sadrazamsadrazam
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    Atherion wrote: »
    And besides, we are talking about failstacking something to 15, not 1 shotting to 20 where a comparison to winning the lottery might actually be applicable.
    Go hard or go home.
  • DillonzDillonz
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    Since the couterforce update I stopped playing. I have less and less time, meaning I can't keep up with the insane gear requirements. Basically what everyone above has said; one of Vindi's greatest downfalls is the massive paywall and luck requirement. Without these, the game can get boring fast.
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    Dillonz wrote: »
    Since the couterforce update I stopped playing. I have less and less time, meaning I can't keep up with the insane gear requirements. Basically what everyone above has said; one of Vindi's greatest downfalls is the massive paywall and luck requirement. Without these, the game can get boring fast.

    If you've quit, would you mind logging in and giving me all your stuff?
    LoyalCasher
  • BountyBounty
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    Vallesti wrote: »
    I think they need to make new content more easily available to everyone. The main thing being the drop rate of rare items increased. It is a turn off for most players to keep running dungeons or raids and not get anything and they'll eventually lose interest in the game because the progress rate is so low. Not everyone is a wallet warrior or a botter that can spend hours everyday playing. With minimal $ spending and hardcore farming, you'd have to play hours each day in hopes to get a character fully geared with the latest content . At that pace you can probably gear 1-2 characters. But they have what 15 characters now? Id love to fully experience the full potential of all, if not, most of the characters. Idk man, most ppl probably spend more time trying to fully gear 1 character, then new stuff comes out and now theyd have to try again to replace the old one before fully enjoying the full potential of a character. People are stuck on old content and lets be real, no one wants old stuff. Everyone wants to enjoy the latest armor, weapons, scrolls, and outfits and they are stuck behind a huge paywall and low drop rates. It's like the low and middle class have gone and only true vindi loyals and elites (credit card warriors and players with mult accounts and bots to fund their main characters) are left. well... at least that's how i feel but whatever i don't think it will change anytime soon.
    Also ppl probably dont like the constant reading dialogue of 2D NPCs in the story. They could make it more "open world" i guess with fully interactable 3D models of NPCs outside or inside buildings you can enter with your character and make all maps minus dungeons explorable like other mmos to make the game more attractive
    The prices in the NX shop could be reduced too i guess. I am more likely to spend money and be a recurring buyer if the prices were reduced 25-35%.

    Ever since Rise and them changing the lead developer it has been a downhill side. They removed so much about what made this game great and the whole addition of CF didn't add anything to the game other than a barrier to content and nothing more than a cash/AP grab.

    The focus should have been implementing more content where you need to work as a team like old school Irukul runs. -_- I cannot think of anything nice to say about anything the lead developer and I have no idea how he got the role to begin with.
  • sadrazamsadrazam
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    Cloakshire wrote: »
    Dillonz wrote: »
    Since the couterforce update I stopped playing. I have less and less time, meaning I can't keep up with the insane gear requirements. Basically what everyone above has said; one of Vindi's greatest downfalls is the massive paywall and luck requirement. Without these, the game can get boring fast.

    If you've quit, would you mind logging in and giving me all your stuff?

    He can`t. Everything binds in this game.
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    sadrazam wrote: »
    Cloakshire wrote: »
    Dillonz wrote: »
    Since the couterforce update I stopped playing. I have less and less time, meaning I can't keep up with the insane gear requirements. Basically what everyone above has said; one of Vindi's greatest downfalls is the massive paywall and luck requirement. Without these, the game can get boring fast.

    If you've quit, would you mind logging in and giving me all your stuff?

    He can`t. Everything binds in this game.

    Nah, he could still mail me all his gold, level 70-80 drops, awakening stones, powders, catalysts, potions, ergs, etc. As far as gear goes, he can have Dianann dismantle everything into essences and give me those too.
    LoyalCasher
  • BountyBounty
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    SoulKing wrote: »
    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Kurs wrote: »
    It seems to me that the complaints are more of an e-peen issue and instant gratification issue than anything else. Where "I, ME, MWAH, HAVE TO HAVE A +15 NOW OR SUPER DUPER FAST OR ELSE IT'S NEXON'S FAULT". Don't you people using that reasoning find something wrong with that being your main reason for hating the game? It seems to me that the game is playable and a lot of the complaints come from the current instant gratification culture. I don't have a +15 anything btw, most of my gear is +12 max with everything else being mostly +11. If they make it too easy to get a +15 then I think people might just leave the game just because "they have nothing to do" but I'm sure Nexon's thinking is that if that players still have something to work torward they're more likely to keep playing rather than if everyone already has a +15 and have "nothing to do", so how would you fix this problem or balance things out?

    I don't need or want a 15, I want to be able to play the game and not feel like dead weight since I don't have a 15. When I'm playing Agares and get hit with the 'sorry, you only get an elixir as a drop since you suck at this game' message, something has gone wrong somewhere. My gear isn't fresh un-scrolled un-enhanced gear either. I had straight 11 armor and weapon, Astera, didn't get 6% damage. That's **** stupid tbh. I don't know how you get 'e-peen' out of my posts

    JUST did a Lugh right now with AimHack and Tracie and only got drops with the Goddess buff because I had 6%. That's with 11 armor and a 12 weapon. Whyyyyyyyy tho.

    So you don't want to improve your gear but you still want to advance in the game? Ya okay.
    You literally don't need a +15 anyway to do 7% in newer raids unless you're playing with 3 other 6k++ ad users and you're getting OHKO'd by Agares every corner.

    If you can't handle the costs of astera then simply switch to dulla? I made a full +12 dulla set for my alt for nearly no cost because of how cheap essences are. I used OJ parts I got from running RAR-> Seals. With the free +15 belt/earring, restored +12 -> reforge -> 100% +13 dulla, a +15 dulla ring from seal shop and a kitty pot I can do 15%+ damage in Agares with 2 highly stat players. Just because you don't want to put in the the effort isn't a problem for the rest of us that did.

    Also it seems like you just want to flex for being a good player without having good gear. If so go run redeemers and go deathless while pumping out optimal DPS. Even with only 4.1k add I can do 30% DPS in a party because I actually know how to fight & survive in Balor. Doesn't matter if someone has "whale" stats if they're timered.

    I don't think that as much to do with it. The fact you can have a full +12 set which I have on many chars. Die once and res right away and in some situations get 1 drop because the people who still do play are decked out is just another barrier on top of the other post I made about the game going backwards in many aspects that made it unique pre-rise. The new mechanics, stats etc. has become nothing more than a cash grab. CF is really dumb aspect. As if new players didn't have enough to go on with. It's a great way to bring this game to an end because how many of you actually know of new players to the game other than people coming back from ages ago or to play the new characters. You wonder why they are releasing so many new characters versus new content that is actually creative? The devs of this game went full **** and took many aspects of the game that made it a little unique to resemble a lot of other mmos. One example the way potting works.
  • EmerthystEmerthyst
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    edited July 14, 2019
    While the implementation of cf is horrid if you look beyond the surface level of "it's to take a dump on new players" you start to realize that the devs didn't just implement this to screw you over. I've been here for a few years now and the same thing always happens every new content patch new boss comes out everyone rushes to play it then quits besides the dedicated fanbase. I believe cf is their attempt in trying to mitigate or at least slow down the rate players can just blast through content and just leave. Having to buy and invest in your character also has you build a subconscious attachment to your character so you are less likely to leave before finishing everything (fear of missing out or IKEA effect).

    Cf while a stupid mechanic doesn't force you to pay anything in real dollars to acquire a decent amount heck they give you 40 cf practically for free as both materials required are in the seal shop and the kitty encouragement potion gives you +30cf for 1 battle so you can do at least one lv100 raid per day or let you into macha which has a much higher requirement.

    (I'm sad too that potting safely isn't a special skill anymore)
    Cloakshire
  • cheappariyacheappariya
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    Actualy i gave away all my valuable items to my guild and left the game for dead. It was fun until it last. Maybe when i have too much time to kill come back for an other short run, but now i really dont want to waste anything here. The current stage of Vindy is stupid and there are too many barriers to break for fun play.
  • LoyalCasherLoyalCasher
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    Game is dead and we all know why. Threads like this are all this game has to offer now.

    Personally I'm only staying in this game because I have been here for several years, accumulated enough resources and wealth to be self-sufficient. If I started today as a new player, as a non-whale/non-goldbuying player who does regularly spend NX, has a full time job, plays this game casually, I don't see how I would survive. I mean just by looking at how hard it is to gear an alt.

    I don't need to repeat all the issues other players have already brought up in this thread, just gonna say Vindictus is a great game and it didn't get the investment it deserves. Poor decisions made one after another, as expected from this company.
  • cheappariyacheappariya
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    Well aid, completly agreed.
  • DillonzDillonz
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    Cloakshire wrote: »
    sadrazam wrote: »
    Cloakshire wrote: »
    Dillonz wrote: »
    Since the couterforce update I stopped playing. I have less and less time, meaning I can't keep up with the insane gear requirements. Basically what everyone above has said; one of Vindi's greatest downfalls is the massive paywall and luck requirement. Without these, the game can get boring fast.

    If you've quit, would you mind logging in and giving me all your stuff?

    He can`t. Everything binds in this game.

    Nah, he could still mail me all his gold, level 70-80 drops, awakening stones, powders, catalysts, potions, ergs, etc. As far as gear goes, he can have Dianann dismantle everything into essences and give me those too.

    1. I don't know you, otherwise I'd actually consider it
    2. I didn't say I quit, i just stopped playing - at least for now. I love the game I just don't have time to keep gearing up every time I come back, unfortunately. Honestly I probably won't come back often, but if I do i'd rather have something to work with so i have an incentive to play again :D
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    edited July 28, 2019
    @FlameSama1 I know I'm late replying to your posts here, but I just had an experience in game that I wanted to share with you, but first some replies to your previous points with some of my own.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Lol 'don't want to improve my gear'. I've spent around a billion gold probably give or take 100 mil trying and failing to get a decent level of DPS. I got +11 Astera armor and a +12 Astera weapon and still struggle. (More on this later.)
    If I play with people who are my stat level, the raids take a half hour and several GGs to beat. If I play with AD hoarders, I get outDPS'd to the point where I barely quality for drops.

    ^This quote alone says a lot.^ You've got the potential but I believe you lack the skillset to deal effective dps with your character. You went to say that if you play with people who are similarly stated to you, it takes half an hour and several GG's to beat. The fact that you need several GG's is what stands out to me and screams that you're not playing well. You can buy all the gear you want, but that doesn't mean you can instantly make the most of it. Just like buying a sports car and then realizing you can't drive stick. If you cannot pilot your character well, you're not going to do well.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »

    I don't need or want a 15, I want to be able to play the game and not feel like dead weight since I don't have a 15. When I'm playing Agares and get hit with the 'sorry, you only get an elixir as a drop since you suck at this game' message, something has gone wrong somewhere. My gear isn't fresh un-scrolled un-enhanced gear either. I had straight 11 armor and weapon, Astera, didn't get 6% damage. That's **** stupid tbh. I don't know how you get 'e-peen' out of my posts.

    You're absolutely right. Something did go terribly wrong there. You failed to make the most of your character's potential.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    JUST did a Lugh right now with AimHack and Tracie and only got drops with the Goddess buff because I had 6%. That's with 11 armor and a 12 weapon. Whyyyyyyyy tho.

    Because you're not playing your character efficiently.


    I'm sure you might think I'm talking out of my ass, so let me put my money where my mouth is. The picture below is the party composition of a Macha boat I hosted prior to making this post. You can clearly see that I am by far the weakest. Not only do I have the lowest ATT, but I am also way below Macha's ATT cap. My ADD is nothing impressive; my crit is low, and my counterforce is the bare minimum. Therefore my damage is being nerfed from being below ATT cap as well as not capping Macha's CF Resist. Not only that, but every other party member is capping Macha in both regards. By your logic, I shouldn't be able to break 7% right? Wrong. I DID break 7% by playing aggressively and efficiently with my character in a fight that lasted less than 5 minutes. But here's the kicker. I did NOT transform, and I even sacrificed some dps to lock the boss down so my party could get more dps in. I ended up with 8.08% which is nothing impressive and barely scraping by, but if I'm able to hit the 7% mark while being at an extreme disadvantage, there's no excuses as to why you can't.

    Q0bpER5.png


    Here's the run itself. And before you say it, yes Kai allows me to sit back and dps without having to worry much about dodging attacks. However, keep in mind that this is countered by my stats being atrociously low. To recap the first part of the fight, I just spammed regular long bow shots to build SP so I'd have a strong start during the second phase. Had I transformed and not worried about locking Macha down, I'm confident I could have easily hit 10-11%.

  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    Cloakshire wrote: »
    ...

    You have 3.4k ADD and 100 cap removal, which puts you as higher than my 2.5k ADD and 0 cap removal.
    JKJXcp9.jpg

    Macha I never had a problem with (I actually enjoy that raid MUCH more than the crappy Elchulus raid too). I'd come in last but I'd never fail to qualify for drops. That **** started with Lugh 2.

    And 'you're just playing wrong' is an obvious reply which I'd counter with, I'm playing Staff Evie. Wind up smash attacks, use Continuous Focus and Cast Save to make your smash attacks quicker, use Flying Sparrow to dive in and out of boss range to attack, and that's mostly it for strategy, at least to my knowledge. I've been playing the same character since 2011 and used to have much more success so it doesn't feel like it's me per se.

    The answer has to be my gear I'd say, and short of getting a billion gold today, I'm not sure what I can do about that. I maxed out crit and balance on my staff (+12 Righteous Conviction Astera, 5*, +2 crit Power Infusion). The only two things (to my knowledge) to improve from here is removing my ATT cap, which is around 120-140 mil a shot I think (three Mysterious Shard 2s and whatever else I'd need) and/or enhancing towards 15, which is *slightly* cheaper, provided I take as many opportunities as possible for free steel. But since you are guaranteed to fail a few times per level, it's not cheaper than ATT cap in the slightest.

    I can change a scroll on something to get that last 2 BAL I don't have but that's good for a percent of a percent of damage so it's probably not worth anything. I can use my Dulla staff (I had Dulla staff with Lugh armor prior to my Astera) but my Tech is too low to enter Lugh unless I spent MORE millions on infusion stones trying to get 2 crit on that as well (I'm literally ONE crit short, since my BAL is maxed with my Dulla staff).

    I try my ass off in raids, dashing from attacks, ambering, downing pots and trying my best to pour damage in while staying alive and I average 8%. I do usually five RAR a day across my Evie and my Sylas, sometimes as many as ten or twelve a day, and I'm currently on a three week streak of not getting an 80 or 100 bottle. I put up with doing Lugh from time to time and maybe twice received a token piece of steel out of it. I play this game for two-and-a-half to three hours a day on average and get literally zero returns on my time investment. It is *NOT* worth the goddamn effort anymore which is why no one plays this blatant ripoff of a game anymore. I've never tried and failed so hard to like a game since I started playing video games period.
  • cheappariyacheappariya
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    edited July 29, 2019
    As a fellow staffie I feel your pain. With staff its a struggle to make dps unless you are a real beast.
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    edited July 29, 2019
    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    You have 3.4k ADD and 100 cap removal, which puts you as higher than my 2.5k ADD and 0 cap removal.

    Yes, I do have an extra 900 ADD and 100 ALR on you, but for the sake of reiterating the context of my last post.

    "I am also way below Macha's ATT cap. My ADD is nothing impressive; my crit is low, and my counterforce is the bare minimum. Therefore my damage is being nerfed from being below ATT cap as well as not capping Macha's CF Resist."
    • Since I'm 5k below Macha's cap, my damage is being nerfed.
    • My ALR is irrelevant as it's only applied if I'm above Macha's ATT cap.
    • Since I am only at 100 CF rather than capping Macha's 130, I am only doing 70% of my already nerfed damage.
    • Since I am not close to and/or breaking ATT Cap, ADD doesn't do much for me and enters the realm of diminishing returns.

    So even though I do have the higher ADD and ALR, the disadvantages I'm facing more or less puts us on an even playing field.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Macha I never had a problem with (I actually enjoy that raid MUCH more than the crappy Elchulus raid too). I'd come in last but I'd never fail to qualify for drops. That **** started with Lugh 2.

    While I don't have video readily available for this, I returned to the game about 3 weeks ago. I ended up running my Lann through Agares and Lugh 2.0. At the time, he had 37k ATT, 600 ALR, and 2740 ADD. My CF was only 100, which I boosted to 130 with the kitty pot. Let me clarify that the 600 ALR does not apply here as I'm only at 37k which is not capping Agares's 38K, or Lugh's 38.5K.

    I managed ~12% in Agares and ~10% in Lugh. Now, I understand that you play Staffie which is indisputably different than spear lann. I can stick close, get more hits overall while you're forced to play more conservatively. However, you'd still be stronger than me overall due to your damage not being nerfed from not capping the boss's CF resist. The 240 ADD difference is negligible here.

    Going back to something you said earlier. You did 6% in a Lugh party and only received drops due to the guidance buff. I'm not trying to insult you and say you don't know how to play Staffie, but rather say that you are new at playing Staffie against Lugh 2.0 if you still have the buff. You will get better against him the more times you fight which will in turn boost your dps. After my 5th or 6th time in Lugh, I was still coming in last, but I pushed my average dmg output to ~14%. Granted I make sure I have my transformation handy every time so I can pump out the necessary dps. I'm not sure if you do too, but I suggest making sure you have trans for the extra power.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    The answer has to be my gear I'd say, and short of getting a billion gold today, I'm not sure what I can do about that. I maxed out crit and balance on my staff (+12 Righteous Conviction Astera, 5*, +2 crit Power Infusion). The only two things (to my knowledge) to improve from here is removing my ATT cap, which is around 120-140 mil a shot I think (three Mysterious Shard 2s and whatever else I'd need) and/or enhancing towards 15, which is *slightly* cheaper, provided I take as many opportunities as possible for free steel. But since you are guaranteed to fail a few times per level, it's not cheaper than ATT cap in the slightest.

    If I may offer advice here, I'd say focus on plussing your Astera gear further. You're close enough to cap that ADD will make a bigger difference than ALR which will not since you're at 37K which again is below both Agares and Lugh's ATT Caps.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    I can change a scroll on something to get that last 2 BAL I don't have but that's good for a percent of a percent of damage so it's probably not worth anything. I can use my Dulla staff (I had Dulla staff with Lugh armor prior to my Astera) but my Tech is too low to enter Lugh unless I spent MORE millions on infusion stones trying to get 2 crit on that as well (I'm literally ONE crit short, since my BAL is maxed with my Dulla staff).

    Underlined the important part here. You can enter the QB boats with your Astera gear, then change to your Dulla staff before readying up. Easy way to use your Dulla staff while getting around the QB requirement.