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Game feels dead :(

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  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    Aslai wrote: »
    I've never experienced that behavior. Literally never, not even once as a fluke, and I play on both extremes of the power spectrum.

    Saw this yesterday. Chicane and I joined someone, the host voted to kick PokingStick and Xiujing-two really good players, but kept the two of us around because we had the Goddess buff for doing the raid less than ten times. Never voted to kick us but after kicking Xiujing we backed out. Solo, I later ended up doing the raid with that person where, of course, I got 3rd damage and they had like 45% in first.
  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    Emerthyst wrote: »
    The person above you made the grave mistake of going for astera gear. Astera armor is an easy beginners trap with stupid high steel and ess costs. with the reduced steel costs and cost of essences dullahan armor and weapon is what all new players and f2p should be going for. Dullahan gear is plenty viable and can easily cap current content.

    Excuse us for assuming the new armor would actually be better than the older armor to justify the ridiculous cost of 11 to 15. If you're gonna fist me on the cost of enhancing, maybe actually make it better than the Dulla armor? Or lower the enhancement cost. Either Nexon/Devcat is inept and genuinely didn't know it would work out that way (not a stretch judging by how they've handled this game for a decade), or they're actively trying to troll the handful of people who still give a **** about this game. Either way, I'm not going to take responsibility for them changing to rules and encouraging you to spend hundreds of millions of gold you don't have in order to just compete in raids. IE. have a decent shot at 1st or 2nd.

    This "yOu JuSt NeEd To PuLl Up yOuR bOoTsTrApS" mentality needs to die when, yet again I say this, IT DIDN'T USED TO BE THIS DIFFICULT TO BE COMPETITIVE. Bullshit like Counterforce exists solely as a gold sink because it adds literally nothing to the game and adds yet another barrier to entry that is quickly getting to be just too goddamn much to deal with to play a game as dead as this one.
  • EmerthystEmerthyst
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    they probably didn't want xiu and poking cuz they disrupt the damage contributions potentially pushing them out of 7% required for drops. Xiu is a +16 astera blute user who will not tone it down for lowbies and poking is another skilled +15 astera blute user. Both of them combined can probably do 80% of dps (50-30 split).
  • KursKurs
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    edited July 8, 2019
    It seems to me that the complaints are more of an e-peen issue and instant gratification issue than anything else. Where "I, ME, MWAH, HAVE TO HAVE A +15 NOW OR SUPER DUPER FAST OR ELSE IT'S NEXON'S FAULT". Don't you people using that reasoning find something wrong with that being your main reason for hating the game? It seems to me that the game is playable and a lot of the complaints come from the current instant gratification culture. I don't have a +15 anything btw, most of my gear is +12 max with everything else being mostly +11. If they make it too easy to get a +15 then I think people might just leave the game just because "they have nothing to do" but I'm sure Nexon's thinking is that if that players still have something to work torward they're more likely to keep playing rather than if everyone already has a +15 and have "nothing to do", so how would you fix this problem or balance things out?
  • AslaiAslai
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    Kurs wrote: »
    If they make it too easy to get a +15 then I think people might just leave the game just because "they have nothing to do" but I'm sure Nexon's thinking is that if that players still have something to work torward they're more likely to keep playing rather than if everyone already has a +15 and have "nothing to do", so how would you fix this problem or balance things out?

    Aye. Once you've got a full +15 set and maxed out accessories, the only things left really are just accomplishing arbitrary goals (title collecting, hell clears, solo speedruns) or grinding out +16 and higher gear, which is cost prohibitive even for the fattest of whales. Having a goal to work towards is what makes the game enjoyable.
    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Aslai wrote: »
    I've never experienced that behavior. Literally never, not even once as a fluke, and I play on both extremes of the power spectrum.

    Saw this yesterday. Chicane and I joined someone, the host voted to kick PokingStick and Xiujing-two really good players, but kept the two of us around because we had the Goddess buff for doing the raid less than ten times. Never voted to kick us but after kicking Xiujing we backed out. Solo, I later ended up doing the raid with that person where, of course, I got 3rd damage and they had like 45% in first.

    There are a few other reasonable explanations for that, such as if they wanted to use the last spot for a slowpoke friend or so. If you're totally certain it was DPS whoring though, you could name and shame ;)
  • ikeviikevi
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    I have never kicked/been kicked for dps reason. But I basically will only create boats on ikevi (not join) due to the stupid 7% dps thing. That way I can warn folks before starting/ask other players to tone it down/basically sit for 2+ bars to try to let the newer folks hit 7%. Honestly the host really should be able to disable this 7% flag. (Or at least the game should auto disable/drop to say 2% if the run ends up being way faster than the average gear pary should be expected to run.)

    And yes it is incredibly dumb how some folks wont slow down to let the less geared folks hit 7%.
  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    Kurs wrote: »
    It seems to me that the complaints are more of an e-peen issue and instant gratification issue than anything else. Where "I, ME, MWAH, HAVE TO HAVE A +15 NOW OR SUPER DUPER FAST OR ELSE IT'S NEXON'S FAULT". Don't you people using that reasoning find something wrong with that being your main reason for hating the game? It seems to me that the game is playable and a lot of the complaints come from the current instant gratification culture. I don't have a +15 anything btw, most of my gear is +12 max with everything else being mostly +11. If they make it too easy to get a +15 then I think people might just leave the game just because "they have nothing to do" but I'm sure Nexon's thinking is that if that players still have something to work torward they're more likely to keep playing rather than if everyone already has a +15 and have "nothing to do", so how would you fix this problem or balance things out?

    I don't need or want a 15, I want to be able to play the game and not feel like dead weight since I don't have a 15. When I'm playing Agares and get hit with the 'sorry, you only get an elixir as a drop since you suck at this game' message, something has gone wrong somewhere. My gear isn't fresh un-scrolled un-enhanced gear either. I had straight 11 armor and weapon, Astera, didn't get 6% damage. That's **** stupid tbh. I don't know how you get 'e-peen' out of my posts

    JUST did a Lugh right now with AimHack and Tracie and only got drops with the Goddess buff because I had 6%. That's with 11 armor and a 12 weapon. Whyyyyyyyy tho.
    BabyDani
  • KursKurs
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    I got e-peen from what seemed to be a focus on percentage differences and +15's. Isn't e-peen the term used for pride more or less? And your statement "I don't need or want a 15" seems to be contradicting what you've been saying, or doesn't seem to fit it at least. I don't know what you expect or even want to happen, Nexon's going to be rolling out character re balances soon so that should be something. And I think no matter what you do with upgrades someone's going to complain. if you want someone to try to achieve something you have to make it seem worth it, so if they nerf the damage increase too much then that's just going to cause problems on the opposite end of the spectrum that might be worse because now what would people be trying to do?
  • SoulKingSoulKing
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    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Kurs wrote: »
    It seems to me that the complaints are more of an e-peen issue and instant gratification issue than anything else. Where "I, ME, MWAH, HAVE TO HAVE A +15 NOW OR SUPER DUPER FAST OR ELSE IT'S NEXON'S FAULT". Don't you people using that reasoning find something wrong with that being your main reason for hating the game? It seems to me that the game is playable and a lot of the complaints come from the current instant gratification culture. I don't have a +15 anything btw, most of my gear is +12 max with everything else being mostly +11. If they make it too easy to get a +15 then I think people might just leave the game just because "they have nothing to do" but I'm sure Nexon's thinking is that if that players still have something to work torward they're more likely to keep playing rather than if everyone already has a +15 and have "nothing to do", so how would you fix this problem or balance things out?

    I don't need or want a 15, I want to be able to play the game and not feel like dead weight since I don't have a 15. When I'm playing Agares and get hit with the 'sorry, you only get an elixir as a drop since you suck at this game' message, something has gone wrong somewhere. My gear isn't fresh un-scrolled un-enhanced gear either. I had straight 11 armor and weapon, Astera, didn't get 6% damage. That's **** stupid tbh. I don't know how you get 'e-peen' out of my posts

    JUST did a Lugh right now with AimHack and Tracie and only got drops with the Goddess buff because I had 6%. That's with 11 armor and a 12 weapon. Whyyyyyyyy tho.

    So you don't want to improve your gear but you still want to advance in the game? Ya okay.
    You literally don't need a +15 anyway to do 7% in newer raids unless you're playing with 3 other 6k++ ad users and you're getting OHKO'd by Agares every corner.

    If you can't handle the costs of astera then simply switch to dulla? I made a full +12 dulla set for my alt for nearly no cost because of how cheap essences are. I used OJ parts I got from running RAR-> Seals. With the free +15 belt/earring, restored +12 -> reforge -> 100% +13 dulla, a +15 dulla ring from seal shop and a kitty pot I can do 15%+ damage in Agares with 2 highly stat players. Just because you don't want to put in the the effort isn't a problem for the rest of us that did.

    Also it seems like you just want to flex for being a good player without having good gear. If so go run redeemers and go deathless while pumping out optimal DPS. Even with only 4.1k add I can do 30% DPS in a party because I actually know how to fight & survive in Balor. Doesn't matter if someone has "whale" stats if they're timered.
  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
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    SoulKing wrote: »
    So you don't want to improve your gear but you still want to advance in the game? Ya okay.
    You literally don't need a +15 anyway to do 7% in newer raids unless you're playing with 3 other 6k++ ad users and you're getting OHKO'd by Agares every corner.
    Lol 'don't want to improve my gear'. I've spent around a billion gold probably give or take 100 mil trying and failing to get a decent level of DPS. I got +11 Astera armor and a +12 Astera weapon and still struggle. (More on this later.)
    If I play with people who are my stat level, the raids take a half hour and several GGs to beat. If I play with AD hoarders, I get outDPS'd to the point where I barely quality for drops.
    SoulKing wrote: »
    If you can't handle the costs of astera then simply switch to dulla? I made a full +12 dulla set for my alt for nearly no cost because of how cheap essences are. I used OJ parts I got from running RAR-> Seals. With the free +15 belt/earring, restored +12 -> reforge -> 100% +13 dulla, a +15 dulla ring from seal shop and a kitty pot I can do 15%+ damage in Agares with 2 highly stat players. Just because you don't want to put in the the effort isn't a problem for the rest of us that did.

    "If you can't get what you want out of the first expensive set of armor/weapon you got, why not backpedal and buy another still rather expensive set of armor/weapon instead" is a bold strategy to say the least. I went from Lugh/Dulla to Astera/Astera and while my raw ATT stats went up, my damage stayed pretty close.

    It didn't take this much goddamn work to be half-decent in raids before is my point here. I'm not going for whale status, I just want to do *something* in a raid. Why is it that +10 armor and a +10/11 weapon in the old days got you top damage sometimes and +11 armor with a +12 weapon barely lets me qualify for drops in raids now? Why do people defend the arbitrary layers of goldsinks that place stupid limits on raids? Why is there a 7% limit for drops on raids when the option to vote to kick is there for AFKs? Why, in one simple question, does it take so much more effort than it used to for the same results?
    SoulKing wrote: »
    Also it seems like you just want to flex for being a good player without having good gear. If so go run redeemers and go deathless while pumping out optimal DPS. Even with only 4.1k add I can do 30% DPS in a party because I actually know how to fight & survive in Balor. Doesn't matter if someone has "whale" stats if they're timered.

    You don't read my posts apparently. I'm not trying to flex, I'm hoping to get middling damage in raids again. Where I can run around, throw out coros, and do some decent damage so I actually feel like I'm doing something besides warming the floor. I don't wanna be the center of attention, I want to feel *useful*. If you get 'e-peen' or 'trying to flex' out of that statement then idk what to tell you besides 'you're wrong'.
    BabyDani
  • AtherionAtherion
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    edited July 9, 2019
    Well this explains a lot, you went full Astera without a proper budget or roadmap. This mistake could have been easily avoided if you did some research into the game mechanics before going all in. Your poor financing decisions and lack of research and planning got you in your current predicament, and rather than owning up to your mistake, you are venting on the forums and looking for a scapegoat to blame.

    As of right now, people can literally take a Dullahan weapon from 10 to 13 without having to subject themselves to rng. With the same budget of around 1 billion gold you've already sunk into your current build, that is sufficient to take the weapon to 15 and provide a base of +12-13 Dullahan armor. That's atleast 4500 ad which is more than enough for all content. Sure you'll only have the offensive capabilities of more than half compared to the strongest characters on the server, but that is more than enough for 7% in even the most stacked parties.
  • sadrazamsadrazam
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    edited July 9, 2019
    Atherion wrote: »
    Well this explains a lot, you went full Astera without a proper budget or roadmap. .

    Implying a roadmap is useful in an extreme RNG based game like vindictus. lol
    Implying a budget is relevant in an extremely RNG based game like vindictus
    That`s like saying you didn`t win gambling at las vegas because you didn`t carefully plan out your budget.
    BabyDani
  • AtherionAtherion
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    edited July 9, 2019
    sadrazam wrote: »
    Atherion wrote: »
    Well this explains a lot, you went full Astera without a proper budget or roadmap. .

    Implying a roadmap is useful in an extreme RNG based game like vindictus. lol
    Implying a budget is relevant in an extremely RNG based game like vindictus
    That`s like saying you didn`t win gambling at las vegas because you didn`t carefully plan out your budget.

    The guy budgeted 1 billion gold and went all in with a set of Astera which is literally the least cost effective method to gear up to a competitive level. I'm not even gonna question where that 1 billion came from when they are struggling to deal 7% in the newest raids but going full Astera as a non whale is one of the worst decisions someone can make which can be easily prevented with a little research into game mechanics.

    And have you heard of the concept of risk and reward? Sure something can rng dependent but you can still budget around it when provided with rates.

    Just to give you an example, using the rates from failstacking taken from the game, 13-14 on average takes 3 reforges to succeed and 14-15 takes 6. You can set a budget to prepare for the average or worst case scenario. Calculate the steels and mats required to theoretically achieve your goal and.... congrats you got a budget for that particular item!
  • SoulKingSoulKing
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    Lol 'don't want to improve my gear'. I've spent around a billion gold probably give or take 100 mil trying and failing to get a decent level of DPS. I got +11 Astera armor and a +12 Astera weapon and still struggle. (More on this later.)
    If I play with people who are my stat level, the raids take a half hour and several GGs to beat. If I play with AD hoarders, I get outDPS'd to the point where I barely quality for drops.

    Then don't say you don't "want" a +15. You wish to stay at your current power of +10/+11 while carrying your weight which just isn't feasible. Well, it actually is, but you actually have to learn your character further than just "hey guys a dropped a coro and popped regen, I'm helping."
    "If you can't get what you want out of the first expensive set of armor/weapon you got, why not backpedal and buy another still rather expensive set of armor/weapon instead" is a bold strategy to say the least. I went from Lugh/Dulla to Astera/Astera and while my raw ATT stats went up, my damage stayed pretty close.

    It didn't take this much goddamn work to be half-decent in raids before is my point here. I'm not going for whale status, I just want to do *something* in a raid. Why is it that +10 armor and a +10/11 weapon in the old days got you top damage sometimes and +11 armor with a +12 weapon barely lets me qualify for drops in raids now? Why do people defend the arbitrary layers of goldsinks that place stupid limits on raids? Why is there a 7% limit for drops on raids when the option to vote to kick is there for AFKs? Why, in one simple question, does it take so much more effort than it used to for the same results?

    "Still rather expensive". Outside of scrolls the dulla set I made for my alt was basically free. You even get a quest that jumps your dulla weapon to +12 and there's more than enough events to get the steel to reforge and use the 100% +13 rune.

    And no, actually it takes half the effort, hell even less than half the effort, to do half-decent in raids compared to say S2 days. Did you remember how insanely tedious it was to craft a weapon? It took nearly 1 bil gold to even craft a lv80 given Lako fangs were 200m each and you need 5 of them. Are 25 krak fangs to even make the armor? Who cares about the enhance level when it took billions to get the armor to run the raid anyway? Yeah, you can go for the economical lv70 like I'm telling you to do with dulla, but back then you got kicked cause you didn't have 16k attack.

    The 7% limit, however dumb it is, was a bandaid method to somewhat prevent botting. I'm not going to say I agree with it, but it's a system in place and you'll have to come to terms with it because it's a decision from KR and our voice has zero effect on the matter.
    You don't read my posts apparently. I'm not trying to flex, I'm hoping to get middling damage in raids again. Where I can run around, throw out coros, and do some decent damage so I actually feel like I'm doing something besides warming the floor. I don't wanna be the center of attention, I want to feel *useful*. If you get 'e-peen' or 'trying to flex' out of that statement then idk what to tell you besides 'you're wrong'.

    No, you're trying to be useful without putting in the same effort others have. Well, that's probably worded wrong. Not many others have spent 1 billion to only get nowhere, but that's because of your own personal poor planning on gearing. My friend is using the free +13 dulla weapon, 4 +12 90 pieces, 1 +13 dulla piece with just enough CF to get into lugh and still manages 12% or higher in my boats where I cap and have relatively high AD on my main. Even with a boat containing two more high stat players he's never really struggled to do bare minimum because he's gotten good enough at Lugh to optimize his DPS. This is all within is incredibly low budget of probably under 100m at this point. I didn't help him with gearing whatsoever outside of giving him 1 judgment scroll for his weapon (which he failed).

    You're playing an mmo and you want to avoid grinding. You somehow amassed 1 billion which many players don't reach and used it on gear that's ineffective unless you have the gold or the luck to push through. Atherion is correct in saying you're just venting and looking for a scapegoat for your own mistakes. Fact is it happened. Now either quit or try to remedy it. The game isn't going to chance any time soon and I've met a lot of new players in the past few months with none of your current concerns because they actually did research & planning when it came to gear. Whether it be from the guides here on the forum or through help on Discord.
  • SoulKingSoulKing
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    edited July 9, 2019
    Accidental double post
  • chicanechicane
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    " amassed 1 billion which many players don't reach" ? Really? What game are you looking at? *every* player has a somewhat 'current' trendy outfit & more and more expensive pets showing up - maybe that's where their billion went?
  • SixthSixth
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    SoulKing wrote: »
    You're playing an mmo and you want to avoid grinding.

    That's what I have been telling him from the start, but no use, he just complains for the sake of complaining at this point.

    I see a lot of low-gear players doing fine in astera raids even with 2 OP players in party (I personally do fine even with 3 of them with my crappy gear), they get the drops just fine. But he doesn't care about these players because they are not he, and anyone who dares to even think that it's not that hard to do is suddenly "white-knighting" around and must be an evil person. No, seriously, that's the vibe I get from these complaints looking at the posts here and in that other topic around.
  • SoulKingSoulKing
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    chicane wrote: »
    " amassed 1 billion which many players don't reach" ? Really? What game are you looking at? *every* player has a somewhat 'current' trendy outfit & more and more expensive pets showing up - maybe that's where their billion went?

    You're looking at those who are already geared. Hell, even those with outfitters either got them via gacha or have completely terrible stats even with their 200~300m outfitter. For total amount of players, I really doubt a good portion of them have ever seen 1b total. In assets maybe, but we're talking about gold we actually spent in this case.
    That's what I have been telling him from the start, but no use, he just complains for the sake of complaining at this point.

    I don't get it either tbh. It's not like I don't agree with them entirely. Yes the grind is annoying, yes it's annoying that it takes a fair amount of commitment to reach reasonable stats to pull your own weight, but that's the entire foundation of progression. They really want everything handed to them just because they made an attempt completely ignoring the other players who made it regardless of the lackluster system we have in place.

    As lackluster as it is, there are still tools given to you in order to do reasonably well in a boat. Will you top the charts? Probably not. 7%? If you aren't then the problem lies with you rather than the game.
  • TheDazzlingTheDazzling
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    stap fighting D: or I cry
    Emerthyst
  • cheappariyacheappariya
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    As i told you before. When you reach this point of the game you have to decide.
    Do you have enough money/time to invest into this game to have the necessary gears to advance ?
    Are you willing to put it in?
    If the answer is yes, you can reach a good enough set fro sure and grind enough to buy or create a weapon to use.

    Is this system good? Probably not, probably serves the elitist too much, but fine its open for everyone who has enough time or money.

    In my case the time is not there anymore, and I am not willing to pay either, so game over for me.
    I am not happy because the game and the community is fun, but the dead weight feeling in a party is not for me.