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you start getting it at below 3k hp scaling to 15k additional damage at 1hp. just having 2 people like this can 1 shot normal mobs. spear lanns can enter this state whenever they want (ie after defeating invader).. extremely useful for statue rushes
it's still unchanged. not sure what damage scaling nerf there is other than on the rage buff
also spear lann is considered top tier in kr after the buffs from this patch. a spear lann held the fastest solo balor record for a good while
Miri Nerf effects runs only after 5mins.
The only thing it really hurt was the one place it was balanced, Redeemers.
For shorter runs some Minor tweaks to Waking Stones would help out Most notably Sp Reduction(70) on Blazingspine and Garb.
Usage of Stamina Pot Just after donning the Garb and incorporating one or two parries for instant stamina recovery.
Cat Statue is now a must have. We used to get away with having a paw but we could always just use a focus stim.
The proper fix should have been a %nerf on chainswings while in dragon form and increase of damage from blazing spine.
The Percentages I was thinking of was a 5% decrease in damage from Chain Swings and a 3.5% increase of damage from blazing spine. That would have allowed for player choice.
-Stamina from Dragon Garb with damage lost to chainswings
-Damage in Chainswings but less stamina and cant spam to the nth degree.
Miri Nerf effects runs only after 5mins.
The only thing it really hurt was the one place it was balanced, Redeemers.
For shorter runs some Minor tweaks to Waking Stones would help out Most notably Sp Reduction(70) on Blazingspine and Garb.
Usage of Stamina Pot Just after donning the Garb and incorporating one or two parries for instant stamina recovery.
Cat Statue is now a must have. We used to get away with having a paw but we could always just use a focus stim.
The proper fix should have been a %nerf on chainswings while in dragon form and increase of damage from blazing spine.
The Percentages I was thinking of was a 5% decrease in damage from Chain Swings and a 3.5% increase of damage from blazing spine. That would have allowed for player choice.
-Stamina from Dragon Garb with damage lost to chainswings
-Damage in Chainswings but less stamina and cant spam to the nth degree.
The Miri nerf barely affected her potential damage as it is still one of the highest, if not the highest in the game; even in redeemers. It is simply no longer viable to go brain dead easy mode where spamming chainswings provides you with sufficient sp while transformation provides all the stamina to keep refilling your gauge without having to parry at every opportunity.
And to prove I'm not talking out of my ass, I will reference the 2 Hell Mode clears after the character balances where Miri topped both runs.
The Hurk in the video is one of the best players of the class that I've seen. And although he has a bit less stats than the Miri, we can all agree that Hurk does pretty ridiculous damage in Redeemers provided you don't eat dirt. Hurk is even stronger in Balor than in Neam so I was quite surprised to see that the Miri topped that run as well.
I know this isn't necessarily on topic, but at 0:40 seconds, I notice Neam takes her stance like she's gonna vanish do her OHKO twirl. However, she does a different combo and still triggers her OHKO. Is that something exclusive to hell mode or did she receive and overall adjustment to her moveset?
I know this isn't necessarily on topic, but at 0:40 seconds, I notice Neam takes her stance like she's gonna vanish do her OHKO twirl. However, she does a different combo and still triggers her OHKO. Is that something exclusive to hell mode or did she receive and overall adjustment to her moveset?
There are Hell Mode exclusive moves. In Neam, i think there are just several in the final phase. Balor shows many more patterns though from the get go.
Then you run the risk of anything being able to kill you in such a chaotic environment which I've done more than a couple times heh.
Dps is only half the story in this mode anyway as a significantly weaker team can exploit a stronger one by timing their statue spams accordingly. You can be winning with a huge margin for majority of the round but 1 death can set your team back or even cost the round if at a bad time.
I'm not trying to downplay the effort it takes to survive and carry @ 1hp - I have nothing but respect for god tier Hurks.
However, in my experience damage pretty much is everything unless the teams are very evenly matched. I had a game against Ven's hurk last night where we managed to maintain 3-4 statues on their side of the map for almost the entirety of the latter half of the match. They died a lot, we didn't really die much, but we still ended up losing because of how far they managed to pull ahead in the first half of the match. We simply didn't have the damage to catch up.
While every character is capable of tanking hits and dropping hp, it's pretty sketchy for most characters because they have to depend on life flare or deal with suboptimal ADD scaling (the difference between even 1k hp and 1 hp is pretty massive) - and if they do manage to hit 1 hp, dying means they'll need to go through the sketchy process again. So... characters who can do it quickly, reliably, and consistently can snowball the match much faster and gain a lead that can become nearly impossible to overtake even with late game statue spam.
I dunno, personally I find it extraordinarily difficult to compete with a good hurk on the opposite team (god forbid 2 or 3 good hurks on the same team) unless there's something similar on my team. That's just my experience playing with and against Hurks like Dave, M3l, you, Ven, teacup, etc.
Then you run the risk of anything being able to kill you in such a chaotic environment which I've done more than a couple times heh.
Dps is only half the story in this mode anyway as a significantly weaker team can exploit a stronger one by timing their statue spams accordingly. You can be winning with a huge margin for majority of the round but 1 death can set your team back or even cost the round if at a bad time.
I'm not trying to downplay the effort it takes to survive and carry @ 1hp - I have nothing but respect for god tier Hurks.
However, in my experience damage pretty much is everything unless the teams are very evenly matched. I had a game against Ven's hurk last night where we managed to maintain 3-4 statues on their side of the map for almost the entirety of the latter half of the match. They died a lot, we didn't really die much, but we still ended up losing because of how far they managed to pull ahead in the first half of the match. We simply didn't have the damage to catch up.
While every character is capable of tanking hits and dropping hp, it's pretty sketchy for most characters because they have to depend on life flare or deal with suboptimal ADD scaling (the difference between even 1k hp and 1 hp is pretty massive) - and if they do manage to hit 1 hp, dying means they'll need to go through the sketchy process again. So... characters who can do it quickly, reliably, and consistently can snowball the match much faster and gain a lead that can become nearly impossible to overtake even with late game statue spam.
I dunno, personally I find it extraordinarily difficult to compete with a good hurk on the opposite team (god forbid 2 or 3 good hurks on the same team) unless there's something similar on my team. That's just my experience playing with and against Hurks like Dave, M3l, you, Ven, teacup, etc.
Fair enough, although I would scratch myself off that list since I just figured out I've been pressing the heal hp + defense buff out of habit instead of attack and crit which might have explained my losing streak up till today
There are Hell Mode exclusive moves. In Neam, i think there are just several in the final phase. Balor shows many more patterns though from the get go.
Holy ****. I looked at Balor's and his are pretty insane. New Firewalls & changing his normal 7-hit OHKO combo into 20 hit combo.
There are Hell Mode exclusive moves. In Neam, i think there are just several in the final phase. Balor shows many more patterns though from the get go.
Holy ****. I looked at Balor's and his are pretty insane. New Firewalls & changing his normal 7-hit OHKO combo into 20 hit combo.
Yea Balor's 1hko is pretty ridiculous as it only really serves to waste time in a run where every minute counts.
The Miri nerf barely affected her potential damage as it is still one of the highest, if not the highest in the game; even in redeemers. It is simply no longer viable to go brain dead easy mode where spamming chainswings provides you with sufficient sp while transformation provides all the stamina to keep refilling your gauge without having to parry at every opportunity.
And to prove I'm not talking out of my ass, I will reference the 2 Hell Mode clears after the character balances where Miri topped both runs.
The Hurk in the video is one of the best players of the class that I've seen. And although he has a bit less stats than the Miri, we can all agree that Hurk does pretty ridiculous damage in Redeemers provided you don't eat dirt. Hurk is even stronger in Balor than in Neam so I was quite surprised to see that the Miri topped that run as well.
I still stand by the fact that it really only effects runs after 5mins.
The reason most people complained was because of the shorter S3 runs. So the nerfs failed to accomplish what was needed.
I never said she was as crippled as Lann was by the prior to the onslaught balance changes. In redeemers being brain-dead would kill you even if u had top of the line gear.
As for the references you provided
You stated that he has less stats then the Miri so a difference in literally 0.07% in the first video can be completely foreseeable. In the second we can't even tell if he played to his complete best as we didn't even see his %. So, you trying to provide your defense with them falls mute.
Miri Nerf effects runs only after 5mins.
The only thing it really hurt was the one place it was balanced, Redeemers.
For shorter runs some Minor tweaks to Waking Stones would help out Most notably Sp Reduction(70) on Blazingspine and Garb.
Usage of Stamina Pot Just after donning the Garb and incorporating one or two parries for instant stamina recovery.
Cat Statue is now a must have. We used to get away with having a paw but we could always just use a focus stim.
I still stand by the fact that it really only effects runs after 5mins.
The reason most people complained was because of the shorter S3 runs. So the nerfs failed to accomplish what was needed.
I never said she was as crippled as Lann was by the prior to the onslaught balance changes. In redeemers being brain-dead would kill you even if u had top of the line gear.
Well from my experience, the rebalance had very little impact on her damage potential as you simply need to land your parries to keep your sp up. The only change is that you are now punished for a) Missing flames, b) not using parry at each opportunity, or c) getting hit and losing your parry stack as making too many of these errors will no longer enable your sp gain to accommodate. But fact of the matter is at a high level play where you aren't just spinning around like a beyblade, your sp gain is sufficient to keep up the same level of play as before.
And that's not even considering the fact you can swap Paw for Cat then practically have zero problems with sp just like before. I pulled 37% in a 25 minute Balor with a 4200 ad Miri on my second clear after not using her for a month and I'm nowhere near a great Miri player. So no way in hell was she significantly affected in long runs unless you consider swapping from Paw to Cat a huge nerf.
As for the references you provided
You stated that he has less stats then the Miri so a difference in literally 0.07% in the first video can be completely foreseeable.
So the Miri and Hurk coming 1st and 2nd while there were numerous characters with even better stats trailed behind still don't put Miri in a good light? My point wasn't to prove that Miri > everyone else including Hurk, its that even in redeemers, she is still one of the strongest classes when played properly.
In the second we can't even tell if he played to his complete best as we didn't even see his %. So, you trying to provide your defense with them falls mute.
If we use Lee Dino as reference, he lost 750 ad swapping to a +15 100 from a +16 95 and dropped down 2 ranks from 3rd to 5th from the Neam to Balor clear. So consistency of the run doesn't appear to be a deal breaker atleast from a reasonable perspective.
And as for whether they played their best, this is hell mode we are talking about. Balor has 300m hp and top damage was still within 4% of a 12.5% average required from each player for 100%. It doesn't matter if everyone was playing at 100% efficiency, but the fact they all cleared within such a close margin of one another suggests a high level of consistency and performance.
And if I use your logic and flip it around, how do we know the Miri wasn't playing badly and still managed to top both runs while the Hurk was playing like a god in two 50 minute + runs?
Not that I agree with the changes since this just made her more of a pain to play for the average player while not addressing the underlying issue of her still being super strong in short runs. If it was up to me, I would have just significantly lowered the spin damage in dragon form by atleast 30% while keeping everything else the same.
tldr: her dps is still stupidly high like before provided you play her properly, even in long runs like redeemers. The nerf isn't really a huge deal so no need to freak out and hop mains.
Miri Nerf effects runs only after 5mins.
The only thing it really hurt was the one place it was balanced, Redeemers.
For shorter runs some Minor tweaks to Waking Stones would help out Most notably Sp Reduction(70) on Blazingspine and Garb.
Usage of Stamina Pot Just after donning the Garb and incorporating one or two parries for instant stamina recovery.
Cat Statue is now a must have. We used to get away with having a paw but we could always just use a focus stim.
The proper fix should have been a %nerf on chainswings while in dragon form and increase of damage from blazing spine.
The Percentages I was thinking of was a 5% decrease in damage from Chain Swings and a 3.5% increase of damage from blazing spine. That would have allowed for player choice.
-Stamina from Dragon Garb with damage lost to chainswings
-Damage in Chainswings but less stamina and cant spam to the nth degree.
Alright coming from a Miri main (I main this class right? ) I been messing around with the changes and came to a few conclusions.
In Neamhain I don't think there is much damage lost at all. SP gain is only nerfed on chainswings, parries still gain their full SP value which was always Miri's main source of SP and damage. You will still gain SP overkill in neam when played properly due to neit phases parries giving stupid amount of multi-hits letting you max it out it one parry and that entire SP bar will last you through the neam phases assuming you constantly land parries after 5~ swings and not getting the SP debuff. Not to mention every time you dragon form you will end it at full SP.
In Balor I have not had much experience with the changes do to the lack of runs, but based on previous gameplay and sitting at SP cap the whole time with paw while still missing blazing spines I don't see this being an issue. Before nerf I was able to pull 30.62% in 17 minutes at 4.5k AD and 1k ALR and I would not say I'm playing it at its most optimal yet. From what Atherion said about Miri being top tier op still I completely agree.
I expect the same amount of damage after nerf if i got back the stats (800 Attack from event epaulet). You only lose leeway on messing up which honestly is a good thing, you need to play better to get back to the same amount of damage as before instead of burning 500 SP and still doing stupid damage.
In S3 there is a nerf if the run ends while you still have dragon form running but this only happens in runs sub ~1:30 mins and if you really wanted cat statue lets you trans in the same amount of time pre-nerf. So the lack of paw dragon form is the only "nerf" The slower SP gain is only slowing down your damage by like 10 secs~
An advice for the nerf i have for Miri's is to adapt on stop mindlessly spinning at full parry stacks but instead seek a parry to gain back SP. So for example at the start of a run do 3~4 spins parry then another 3 spin parry which is superior to a 5 stack parry and extra wasted spins. Of course you don't want to stand there doing nothing so add regular smashes. You want more SP since it allows you to do more blazing spines which means more spins which means more parries. This is not even a lost of damage do to how much damage parry does (Its her strongest single attack at 5 stacks and is instant).
Paw vs Cat you can probably tell from my argument above I definitely would say Paw is better for redeemer runs. Cat is
still situational and is better if the runs would end so fast that you would end up wasting 30+ sec of dragon form, but this mostly depends on how good you are at fishing parries out from raids. If i see Kai's that would make the boss run away for days I would use cat. Ideally paw still is superior because of how broken dragon form is with it.
TLDR: Miri's damage barely got nerfed if played properly but will require an adjustment in gameplay
"Miri's damage barely got nerfed if played properly" :O ... Miri requires everything but skill m8 +shy ... I seen lots of Miris, both OP geared and **** tier gear and they both do stupid amount of damage with barely any effort, I like the idea of devcat making a scrub friendly character, a character that u can literally can be sh*t at it but still be very very close to skill ceiling, but when they make that kind of character... AND STILL MAKE HER DEAL A DUMB AMOUNT OF DAMAGE, that's what I don't like... as I said they should keep her gameplay as it is, give her back her infinite stamina if you'd like to make her easier (she already is the easiest overall) BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE LOWER HER DAMAGE JESUS CHRIST >:C
Miri Nerf effects runs only after 5mins.
The only thing it really hurt was the one place it was balanced, Redeemers.
For shorter runs some Minor tweaks to Waking Stones would help out Most notably Sp Reduction(70) on Blazingspine and Garb.
Usage of Stamina Pot Just after donning the Garb and incorporating one or two parries for instant stamina recovery.
Cat Statue is now a must have. We used to get away with having a paw but we could always just use a focus stim.
Comments
it's still unchanged. not sure what damage scaling nerf there is other than on the rage buff
also spear lann is considered top tier in kr after the buffs from this patch. a spear lann held the fastest solo balor record for a good while
The only thing it really hurt was the one place it was balanced, Redeemers.
For shorter runs some Minor tweaks to Waking Stones would help out Most notably Sp Reduction(70) on Blazingspine and Garb.
Usage of Stamina Pot Just after donning the Garb and incorporating one or two parries for instant stamina recovery.
Cat Statue is now a must have. We used to get away with having a paw but we could always just use a focus stim.
The proper fix should have been a %nerf on chainswings while in dragon form and increase of damage from blazing spine.
The Percentages I was thinking of was a 5% decrease in damage from Chain Swings and a 3.5% increase of damage from blazing spine. That would have allowed for player choice.
-Stamina from Dragon Garb with damage lost to chainswings
-Damage in Chainswings but less stamina and cant spam to the nth degree.
The Miri nerf barely affected her potential damage as it is still one of the highest, if not the highest in the game; even in redeemers. It is simply no longer viable to go brain dead easy mode where spamming chainswings provides you with sufficient sp while transformation provides all the stamina to keep refilling your gauge without having to parry at every opportunity.
And to prove I'm not talking out of my ass, I will reference the 2 Hell Mode clears after the character balances where Miri topped both runs.
The Hurk in the video is one of the best players of the class that I've seen. And although he has a bit less stats than the Miri, we can all agree that Hurk does pretty ridiculous damage in Redeemers provided you don't eat dirt. Hurk is even stronger in Balor than in Neam so I was quite surprised to see that the Miri topped that run as well.
I know this isn't necessarily on topic, but at 0:40 seconds, I notice Neam takes her stance like she's gonna vanish do her OHKO twirl. However, she does a different combo and still triggers her OHKO. Is that something exclusive to hell mode or did she receive and overall adjustment to her moveset?
There are Hell Mode exclusive moves. In Neam, i think there are just several in the final phase. Balor shows many more patterns though from the get go.
I'm not trying to downplay the effort it takes to survive and carry @ 1hp - I have nothing but respect for god tier Hurks.
However, in my experience damage pretty much is everything unless the teams are very evenly matched. I had a game against Ven's hurk last night where we managed to maintain 3-4 statues on their side of the map for almost the entirety of the latter half of the match. They died a lot, we didn't really die much, but we still ended up losing because of how far they managed to pull ahead in the first half of the match. We simply didn't have the damage to catch up.
While every character is capable of tanking hits and dropping hp, it's pretty sketchy for most characters because they have to depend on life flare or deal with suboptimal ADD scaling (the difference between even 1k hp and 1 hp is pretty massive) - and if they do manage to hit 1 hp, dying means they'll need to go through the sketchy process again. So... characters who can do it quickly, reliably, and consistently can snowball the match much faster and gain a lead that can become nearly impossible to overtake even with late game statue spam.
I dunno, personally I find it extraordinarily difficult to compete with a good hurk on the opposite team (god forbid 2 or 3 good hurks on the same team) unless there's something similar on my team. That's just my experience playing with and against Hurks like Dave, M3l, you, Ven, teacup, etc.
Fair enough, although I would scratch myself off that list since I just figured out I've been pressing the heal hp + defense buff out of habit instead of attack and crit which might have explained my losing streak up till today
Holy ****. I looked at Balor's and his are pretty insane. New Firewalls & changing his normal 7-hit OHKO combo into 20 hit combo.
Yea Balor's 1hko is pretty ridiculous as it only really serves to waste time in a run where every minute counts.
Time wasting is beneficial for Miri's Flamebreath.
"Balanced" as always.
atleast Fiona required skill to master the character :O ! Miri is zero skill HUGE reward character x_x
The reason most people complained was because of the shorter S3 runs. So the nerfs failed to accomplish what was needed.
I never said she was as crippled as Lann was by the prior to the onslaught balance changes. In redeemers being brain-dead would kill you even if u had top of the line gear.
As for the references you provided
You stated that he has less stats then the Miri so a difference in literally 0.07% in the first video can be completely foreseeable. In the second we can't even tell if he played to his complete best as we didn't even see his %. So, you trying to provide your defense with them falls mute.
Well from my experience, the rebalance had very little impact on her damage potential as you simply need to land your parries to keep your sp up. The only change is that you are now punished for a) Missing flames, b) not using parry at each opportunity, or c) getting hit and losing your parry stack as making too many of these errors will no longer enable your sp gain to accommodate. But fact of the matter is at a high level play where you aren't just spinning around like a beyblade, your sp gain is sufficient to keep up the same level of play as before.
And that's not even considering the fact you can swap Paw for Cat then practically have zero problems with sp just like before. I pulled 37% in a 25 minute Balor with a 4200 ad Miri on my second clear after not using her for a month and I'm nowhere near a great Miri player. So no way in hell was she significantly affected in long runs unless you consider swapping from Paw to Cat a huge nerf.
So the Miri and Hurk coming 1st and 2nd while there were numerous characters with even better stats trailed behind still don't put Miri in a good light? My point wasn't to prove that Miri > everyone else including Hurk, its that even in redeemers, she is still one of the strongest classes when played properly.
If we use Lee Dino as reference, he lost 750 ad swapping to a +15 100 from a +16 95 and dropped down 2 ranks from 3rd to 5th from the Neam to Balor clear. So consistency of the run doesn't appear to be a deal breaker atleast from a reasonable perspective.
And as for whether they played their best, this is hell mode we are talking about. Balor has 300m hp and top damage was still within 4% of a 12.5% average required from each player for 100%. It doesn't matter if everyone was playing at 100% efficiency, but the fact they all cleared within such a close margin of one another suggests a high level of consistency and performance.
And if I use your logic and flip it around, how do we know the Miri wasn't playing badly and still managed to top both runs while the Hurk was playing like a god in two 50 minute + runs?
Not that I agree with the changes since this just made her more of a pain to play for the average player while not addressing the underlying issue of her still being super strong in short runs. If it was up to me, I would have just significantly lowered the spin damage in dragon form by atleast 30% while keeping everything else the same.
tldr: her dps is still stupidly high like before provided you play her properly, even in long runs like redeemers. The nerf isn't really a huge deal so no need to freak out and hop mains.
Alright coming from a Miri main (I main this class right?
In Neamhain I don't think there is much damage lost at all. SP gain is only nerfed on chainswings, parries still gain their full SP value which was always Miri's main source of SP and damage. You will still gain SP overkill in neam when played properly due to neit phases parries giving stupid amount of multi-hits letting you max it out it one parry and that entire SP bar will last you through the neam phases assuming you constantly land parries after 5~ swings and not getting the SP debuff. Not to mention every time you dragon form you will end it at full SP.
In Balor I have not had much experience with the changes do to the lack of runs, but based on previous gameplay and sitting at SP cap the whole time with paw while still missing blazing spines I don't see this being an issue. Before nerf I was able to pull 30.62% in 17 minutes at 4.5k AD and 1k ALR and I would not say I'm playing it at its most optimal yet. From what Atherion said about Miri being top tier op still I completely agree.
I expect the same amount of damage after nerf if i got back the stats (800 Attack from event epaulet). You only lose leeway on messing up which honestly is a good thing, you need to play better to get back to the same amount of damage as before instead of burning 500 SP and still doing stupid damage.
In S3 there is a nerf if the run ends while you still have dragon form running but this only happens in runs sub ~1:30 mins and if you really wanted cat statue lets you trans in the same amount of time pre-nerf. So the lack of paw dragon form is the only "nerf" The slower SP gain is only slowing down your damage by like 10 secs~
An advice for the nerf i have for Miri's is to adapt on stop mindlessly spinning at full parry stacks but instead seek a parry to gain back SP. So for example at the start of a run do 3~4 spins parry then another 3 spin parry which is superior to a 5 stack parry and extra wasted spins. Of course you don't want to stand there doing nothing so add regular smashes. You want more SP since it allows you to do more blazing spines which means more spins which means more parries. This is not even a lost of damage do to how much damage parry does (Its her strongest single attack at 5 stacks and is instant).
Paw vs Cat you can probably tell from my argument above I definitely would say Paw is better for redeemer runs. Cat is
still situational and is better if the runs would end so fast that you would end up wasting 30+ sec of dragon form, but this mostly depends on how good you are at fishing parries out from raids. If i see Kai's that would make the boss run away for days I would use cat. Ideally paw still is superior because of how broken dragon form is with it.
TLDR: Miri's damage barely got nerfed if played properly but will require an adjustment in gameplay
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