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So there you have it, for you people really trying to defend Nexon with these gachas and supposedly "random" events thinking they aren't rigged.
Well guess what? They are rigged.
"In promoting the puzzle event, Nexon informed users that the 16 pieces would be provided at random. In reality, however, the odds of obtaining some of the pieces was as low as 0.5 percent. By depriving users of this information, the FTC said the gamemaker led ordinary users to believe that the odds of getting each puzzle piece would be equal. "
This means that these supposedly "random" boxes, cubes, dice, whatever event they're claiming things are random in really have it setup where chances to get certain items are ridiculously low, the odds aren't what Nexon says they are and players are being deceived.
So when players are told "there is a 5% chance to get X item" from that $1 or $5 gachaphon box you don't even know if that's really the true rate or if you're being lied to.
When you do these "random" events no, it isn't really random, the odds of getting the better items are much lower than other items. That dice you see being rolled in-game isn't what's really going on in the system behind the scenes, it's actually set up so the number you get will make it so your chances are higher to get the junk items and almost never get the good items.
Nothing like greedy lying developers using deceptive tactics like this just to steal more money from players. Now you understand why people say Nexon is a greedy moneyhungry game company.
And don't try to say "oh well that's a different game, it doesn't say Vindictus" - please don't be this stupid, Vindictus is a game run by Nexon too, you don't think they're going to be following the same deceptive practices with their other games to try and steal as much money as possible from players? If lying to players about gachaphon rates is working with one game and they're stealing all this money from players of course they're going to do it with their other games like Vindictus.
So yeah, this has probably been going on for years with Vindictus gachas and "random" events and now they've finally been exposed and sued for deceiving players.
Good job FTC and thank you DragonRider for sharing this.
This means that these supposedly "random" boxes, cubes, dice, whatever event they're claiming things are random in really have it setup where chances to get certain items are ridiculously low, the odds aren't what Nexon says they are and players are being deceived.
You do know that Random doesn't mean equal chances. 99 % vs 1% it is still random. The odds are different.
it's actually set up so the number you get will make it so your chances are higher to get the junk items and almost never get the good items.
Because those are the odds? for example the Iset pet box, You have a 4% chance to get one of the pets or the avatars, and 96 % chance of getting one of the other ''junk'' items. Now what do u think will come up more between 4% and 96 %.
Don't really know what's the case with the other games, I guess let a judge decide if they are being sued.
But yeah Random doesn't mean equal chances... if they say equal chances with that exact expression or give percentage numbers which show equal chances it wont be equal and then get pissed cause u don't drop the item.
Considering that their own regulatory body went after them clearly there was an issue. A company as big as they are doesn't tend to have fines and sanctions brought for no reason. Again, it's kind of telling that for a while they'd been publishing their rates along with items then went back to not doing so. Had they held to what they'd been doing it never would have become an issue.
Looks like we have a Nexon fanboy here already trying to find some way to defend Nexon and just say "everything is okay guys! Nexon is great!" even though it's just been proven they've been lying to players to steal more money from them with these gacha boxes.
-Statistics.
of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen.
There is no "99% vs 1%" when it comes to something being TRULY random. If an event or cash shop item is claimed to be "random" then having some items have a 99% drop rate and others 1% is NOT random and that's why Nexon is being sued. It's not hard to understand.
I can't believe you just said 99% vs 1% is random. You really don't see how that's rigged and the odds are AGAINST you in that? That's not what random is, that's just plain "we're going to make it near impossible for you to get this item and steal all your money".
Please stay in school man, you have no idea what you're talking about and you clearly don't know how probability is SUPPOSED to work.
As far as gachas that have the 4 or 5% chance to get pets or Iset outfits, pets and whatnot, the point of this article is that Nexon is lying and deceiving players about the odds of getting items from cash shop gacha boxes. Obviously if an item only has a 5% chance and Nexon makes that clear then it won't be obtained very often, that's common sense.
But they're sitting here saying the chance to get this item is "random" when it really isn't - the odds are not equal when they should be to get that random item, the odds are MUCH lower than what players are being led to believe.
The issue with lying about ANY drop rates in the first place is the fact that now players can't trust Nexon to keep their word about what the ACTUAL drop rate is for ANY items from cash shop "random" boxes or gachas, death cubes, you name it - they can tell you the chance to get that Iset pet or outfit is 4% or 5% when it's really half that or even less than 1%.
They might make a post saying "the chances to get this pet or avatar/outfit item is 5%" then later change those rates on people to rake in more dough and steal even more money from players, now we have to wonder whether they're doing that or not, if they've been lying all this time about the drop rate of one cash shop item how do we know they aren't lying about the other gacha cash shop items? Because clearly they've been lying to players to steal more money from them so why not keep doing it with other games and other gacha boxes?
You're really just making a fool of yourself if you're trying this hard to defend and find some way to justify a company deceiving players like this.
I'm not saying Nexon is great, do not put words into my mouth, they are far from perfect. And I disagree with some if not most tactics used.
I'm not arguing the odds are against you, of course they are, look at the numbers.
And thank you for the definition of Randomness from the dictionary u are a life saver.
Just to make it clear, the event is RANDOM, the outcomes of the event don't have equal probabilities of occurrence. They are not 50-50
It is not rigged against you, if you do not like those odds do not purchase the boxes. If you don't like the odds of gambling to not play slot machines and whatever else gambling game where the odds are ''rigged'' against you. No one is forcing you to do it.
They never said it's equal or 50-50. When they say that and its not go ahead and sue them, even in the case of the puzzle game if what I've read is correct. It's just peoples interpretation of random, oh it's random then its 50-50.
If you go on random generator website and you put in a pool of 100 numbers, hit the generate button the odds of you getting a particular number are not 50-50 it's 1 in 100, = 1%.
Same as with the items in the game, 4 % of getting one of the following, if there are 10 items in that pool you have a 0.4% chance of getting 1 of those individual items.
If you do not like the odds dont purchase the box.
I have a problem with spreading misinformation and throwing accusation around without any sort of proof.
I'm not saying Nexon is great, do not put words into my mouth, they are far from perfect. And I disagree with some if not most tactics used.
Just to make it clear, the event is RANDOM, the outcomes of the event don't have equal probabilities of occurrence. They are not 50-50
It is not rigged against you, if you do not like those odds do not purchase the boxes. If you don't like the odds of gambling to not play slot machines and whatever else gambling game where the odds are ''rigged'' against you. No one is forcing you to do it.
Yeah that's all I needed to hear from you to confirm you really are this stupid.
Like I said, stay in school, you clearly don't understand even the basic concepts of probability.
"They never said it's equal or 50-50"
And that is why they're being sued fool, because they claimed the event was RANDOM, leading players to think chances of getting items were equal when some of the item chances were as low as 0.5% - that's not random, they lied, simple.
Why do you think they DIDN'T say the chances were equal? Because they purposely made some of the gacha item rates so ridiculously low that if players knew, barely anyone would even bother buying them. So they just claim "random" chance so they have all these people wasting all this money trying to get items from that gacha box with such a low rate it might as well not even exist in the game - 0.5% chance really?
"It's not rigged against you"
So you're really trying to say if one item only has a 0.5% chance to be obtained while junk items have much higher chances the odds aren't against you, that that isn't rigged - after players are told it's "random", meaning the chances of each item should be the same. Yeah you really are that stupid.
I doubt you even read the article or you just don't understand what the hell you read, reading comprehension must be an issue with you. Because you seem really confused doing all this math like you're smart and you know what you're talking about when really all of that is irrelevant.
And stop saying 50-50, you're implying random means 50% for each side of a dice piece and that's just stupid. Again, random means an equal chance for each individual item not "50-50".
Can't believe I'm having to explain what the definition of random is.
And no one is spreading "misinformation" you just seem to have some serious reading comprehension issues and are confused. You're trying to act like you're smart with your little math when you're not even using the right numbers in the first place.
You aren't even sure if you understood what you read in the article lol
Just stop dude, you're literally trying to defend thieves and lying developers that are intentionally hiding information from players to steal their money.
Just stop dude, you're literally trying to defend thieves and lying developers that are intentionally hiding information from players to steal their money.
As if this hasn't been the case for like past 15 years or so in gaming industry through season passes/preorders/early accesses.
They do say random, and they also give u the percentage rate in our case, Btw if some law applies in KR doesnt mean it applies in the United States u dumb ****.
EX: 4% Out of the pool of 11 items we have now in the current gachas, is about 0.3 % to get one of those particular items, yesss that low. Yet people still have the choice to buy them or not. Same as if they play the slot machines and expect to win the jackpot. Go sue the gambling companies for not revealing the true odds of a jackpot u dumb monkey. Good luck with that.
It doesnt have to be equal chances, its their company and game, they can make it 0000000.1 they are not forcing it onto you. You can either buy it or dont, it's a free market.
Im not even defending Nexon, you're just spreading bullshit. Like they HAVE TO . They do not HAVE TO do anything for you. They have to reveal the exact rates of each item in the gacha? Point me to the US law that says that. US not Korea, or China or whatever else country.
Very good that they got fined in KR for misleading people, not arguing that.
They do say random, and they also give u the percentage rate in our case, Btw if some law applies in KR doesnt mean it applies in the United States u dumb ****.
1. What I said has nothing to do with laws in any country, that's irrelevant. This isn't about Korean vs American laws because if Nexon KR says f uck the rules and the laws, we're going to lie to players about gacha item rates to steal player's money" then Nexon NA can do the same and it's likely they are doing just that
Example: We had an event where you would get what Nexon called RANDOM "mysterious ice cubes" - there were some really good items you could get from it like I think enhance coupons. The overwhelming majority of players got nothing but AP capsules, I was in a guild with at least 50 active members, every single one of them got nothing but AP capsules.
So what does that tell you? These mysterious ice cubes were NOT random like Nexon NA said they were, they were made so the chances to get the good items like enhance coupons were stupidly low, to the point where almost no one could get it.
So yeah, Nexon NA is definitely doing the very same thing as KR is and it has happened time and time again with events they've held where anything was claimed to be "random".
So if we can't trust Nexon NA to tell the truth about simple event items why should we trust them when they say "this Succubus and Iset set has a 4% chance" from the gacha boxes here? There is no way to know for sure that they aren't actually lying about that number, the same way they've lied about these "random" event items like the mysterious ice cubes, the same way Nexon KR is now being sued and fined for lying about their supposed "random" gachas that weren't really random with some items having a rate as low as 0.5%. I think you see the pattern here.
Keep in mind Nexon NA makes a lot less money than Nexon KR and KR just got caught lying about their gacha rates just to steal money from players. So why wouldn't Nexon NA follow suit and do the same? They need the money even more than KR so why not lie about gacha rates here and steal NA players money too? Nexon NA needs the money even more and is even more likelier to be lying about gacha rates even if they say what the rates are. They can tell you that Iset set has a 4% chance but the rate could actually be just 1 or 2% or even less so you give them more money to try and get that set or pet you want, if you ever do get it.
Just something to think about.
2. I'm not even going to waste my time discussing the equal chances thing with you anymore. You're the same **** that is trying to convince someone that random doesn't mean equal after I showed you the dictionary definition of random specifically states that random means there is an equal chance to obtain each item. You're the same idiot trying to say it's really okay for Nexon to claim items obtained from certain gachas are "random" and not truly make them random but make certain items from that "random" gacha near impossible to get.
That's like me betting $100 with you over whether a quarter will land on heads or tails but I made it a special type of quarter that will land on the side that I want 99.9% of the time so I almost always win and you always lose - does that sound random to you? Does that sound fair to you if it's supposed to be random? That doesn't even make any sense does it?
Fanboys like you 'RobertLivia' that just can never stop kissing ass to these evil, moneyhungry greedy game companies no matter how much they f uck over their own players make me f ucking sick.
See, you're just either stupid or malicious.
Never said im defending the company even made remarks about it.
But you just keep on going with ur retarded claims.
Not 1 game will give you equal chances in a random box that costs money.
Legendary skins in overwatch are more rare than normal stuff, yet those boxes are still random monkeyboy.
Now to which extent that rarity is depends on the company that is releasing those boxes.
RANDOM DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE EQUAL CHANCES BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE ITEMS IN THE POOL OF ITEMS THAT CAN BE DRAWN RANDOMLY FROM IT GIVING THEIR CHANCES.
In our Case they never say its only Random even they even give you the percentage rates.
If the item lets say has a flat 10% drop rate and the others have 90%. YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED TO DROP 1 ITEM OUT OF 10 BOXES. Even if the chance is 1 in 10 Because its RANDOM.
Im out, I explained enough how randomness works in a game.
You coin theory even proves that, even if its 50-50 you can still hit head or tails 10 times in a row.
Regarding the ice cube, I doubt what u are saying and call bullshit. I can also say I know people who bought 30 and got alot more out of them than ap capsules.
Bye. Have a nice random life.
When your mommy has her own gaming company then u can tell her to make better odds for boxes. And make them truly Random. Like your dictionary definition.
@RobertLivia Please just stop. If you can't get what random actually means, then just stop. Beyond that, the incident reveals that Nexon has been deceptive about their odds, period. Which means at any point they may have been outright lying about the rates in other games. This kind of integrity being brought into question when it concerns the odds with RNG boxes is a huge red flag for everything else that they claim to have specific odds in games. Keep in mind as well that many who used to actively data mine are gone, so aside from isolated incidents like this there is almost no checking done as to what's what with their games now.
I'll say it for you even though it's been stated for you already and even quoted from a literal definition: random means thatall outcomes have an equal chance of occurring. The issue is that Nexon claimed the prizes were random. Random has one and only one meaning. If there is a bias towards one thing over another there are differing odds and an impossibility of randomness. If something is advertised as random and it is not, then it is a violation of FTC standards, period. That should not be hard to grasp.
@Deprived u have all the rights to explain your thinking but bashing against someone just because doesn't understand or doesn't share your thoughts equal to turn an interesting thread into a stupid, boring, repetitive clash between 2 ppl.
Not only u lose the focus on the main issue but u also risk that this thread get closed cause too much fire...
Robert cash from unknown time and always supported nexon (even reporting any kind of bs to nexon for the sake of some justice/jellyness who knows).
In the end it doesn't really matter cause
the game needs someone who cash anyway or it might be closed someday.
Back to the topic i want to add some things that have been skipped about it.
The article says the case is dated back to 2016. Maybe only a few of you remember that back in the past nexon 'never' told us what were the chance to find certain items.
They started to publish these rates only recently (1 year or 2) which coincide perfectly with the start of this process in kr. Probably once the mess was done there, they wanted to avoid more law issues elsewhere. So one day the rates for the gacha magically appeared also here but nobody knew what was behind.
Also, the fine is not only referred to the missing rates but 'also for the unfair too much low rates' of the mentioned item.
Read better the article...
Nexon being shady is known since long.
Back in the past, a group of korean players succesfully tested an old gacha in vindictus and the found out that the players who had more nx items in their nx inventory were subject to a weird boost in luck about rares in game and gachas.
These players opened a serious investigation with actual evidences and when the whole thing came up Nexon kr just closed the case with smt like: oh yeah we found out you are right but wasn't intended. It is just a 'bug'. Patched and fixed case closed.
(Pretty well programmed bug tho).
Unfortunately I don't have the article link here but im pretty sure some of you heard about it.
That said i could bet on a thing that i saw happening too many times to call it coincidence. Day one of any gachas rares pop up everywhere giving the illusion and attracting ppl that it is a easy win.
In the next days when ppl buy a lot of them cause teased, weirdely rares start to disappear and become incredibly hard to find. Coincidence? I don't think so. The logic behind is quite easy to understand.
So, despite it might be just speculations, the rates are 'tweaked' more times to their advantage. Fair? Not at all.
The rates we have into the client which anybody can datamine doesn't represent the same rates on the server side...
The server side could use the same client rate plus other variables that only they knows, or even a totally different calculation of the rates. Server is not the same as the client and many stuffs (fair or not) are just hidden to us.
Robert says whoever sell u smt whatever are the conditions, it is in their right to sell how they want and your rights to decide to buy or no.
Partially true imo. U could say that for private sellings but if we talk globally there are actual 'laws' that rule the markets and even prices, same as exist differents istitutions that safeguard the consumers against any kind of illegal or unfair tradings.
I personally saw ppl spending about 500 euro to find a pet or a set and they found nothing. I believe every player that spend over a 'human' amount of money in those gambles should be assured something back like the chance to get a pet or a set.
Some of you might say: ehi then I should be assured a money win on the slotmachines if i spend enough? No.
But if we are talking about buying digital abstract items that worth absolutely 0 especially cause u don't really own anything of the things u buy in game.
The day the game close you will lose 'everything'. So the slot machine and the general gamble were u have the chance to win smt worthy can't be applied in this case.
Yes that person got his set in the end with coupons after 500 euro spent, but does that digital item worth that much?
NOT AT ALL. And as if it wasn't enough the gachas went from 990nx to 1900nx and from 250 coupons for a rare to 450...
I understand costs and expenses for a company but i guess that some choices goes beyond any kind of 'morality'.
@RobertLivia Please just stop. If you can't get what random actually means, then just stop. Beyond that, the incident reveals that Nexon has been deceptive about their odds, period. Which means at any point they may have been outright lying about the rates in other games. This kind of integrity being brought into question when it concerns the odds with RNG boxes is a huge red flag for everything else that they claim to have specific odds in games. Keep in mind as well that many who used to actively data mine are gone, so aside from isolated incidents like this there is almost no checking done as to what's what with their games now.
I'll say it for you even though it's been stated for you already and even quoted from a literal definition: random means thatall outcomes have an equal chance of occurring. The issue is that Nexon claimed the prizes were random. Random has one and only one meaning. If there is a bias towards one thing over another there are differing odds and an impossibility of randomness. If something is advertised as random and it is not, then it is a violation of FTC standards, period. That should not be hard to grasp.
Here you go, random box + percentage rates to obtain said items. Go report them/sue them. Best of luck!!!! Tell them the dictionary contradicts them. Cause you haven't heard of random selection.
But wait, that cant be right.. they use the word Random... and then they give you the percentage chances of obtaining said items.. and they are not equal.. .. but but ... the dictionary...
Go report Blizzard as well and sue them, see how far that gets you
But yeah it's illegal keep it on the quiet guys.. these 2 have uncovered a conspiracy.. all with the help of their dictionary. God bless their souls.
Please quote the dictionary again so I can laugh some more in your face.
What Nexon actually stated in that article if people haven't actually read it. Is exactly what I was saying, "Provided at random but with different odds to obtain particular items'' And they plan to fight the FTC's interpretation.
Just so people don't spread misinformation based on their personal opinions and their dictionary.
So... you just flashed the reason why they are being fined. Do you really think that getting 5k ap is the same odds as getting the queen iset set in our current event? If so why don't I see server messages for every item?
It is a 4% chance to get one of those items. The FTC has issue with the fact that Nexon is making that seem like the odds to get anything in that bucket is then a (4/11)% change but of course it isn't... (Note the US has no rules for this, so we can't sue...)
And of course they are going to fight it. The last thing they want to do is let the FTC set precedent of fining them ~1 million dollars for every false/incomplete statement they make ;-) I don't know any corporation that doesn't fight things like this and then settle with a statement saying that they did no wrong, but in the future will be more transparent, etc...
@RobertLivia Please just stop. If you can't get what random actually means, then just stop. Beyond that, the incident reveals that Nexon has been deceptive about their odds, period. Which means at any point they may have been outright lying about the rates in other games. This kind of integrity being brought into question when it concerns the odds with RNG boxes is a huge red flag for everything else that they claim to have specific odds in games. Keep in mind as well that many who used to actively data mine are gone, so aside from isolated incidents like this there is almost no checking done as to what's what with their games now.
I'll say it for you even though it's been stated for you already and even quoted from a literal definition: random means thatall outcomes have an equal chance of occurring. The issue is that Nexon claimed the prizes were random. Random has one and only one meaning. If there is a bias towards one thing over another there are differing odds and an impossibility of randomness. If something is advertised as random and it is not, then it is a violation of FTC standards, period. That should not be hard to grasp.
This.
I think this "RobertLivia" dude must be some foreigner or something, English isn't his first language so it's difficult for him to interpret and understand the proper definition of the word random.
He's confused, he's even trying to prove a dictionary definition of the word wrong lol
DIdn't even bother reading your post but skimming through it I already knew it was irrelevant - even posting Overwatch wiki images LOL
1. This isn't Overwatch, this isn't Blizzard.
2. Wikipedia isn't a credible source to use to prove anything fool - this information is written by regular players, not Blizzard themselves and it's common knowledge that Wikipedia is known to provide inaccurate and incomplete information. Wikipedia even tells you that themselves idiot.
"Wikipedia is not a reliable source for academic writing or research." -Wikipedia
"This is especially true considering anyone can edit the information given at any time, and although most errors are immediately fixed, some errors remain unnoticed, for weeks, months, or even years." - Wikipedia
"However, citation of Wikipedia in research papers may be considered unacceptable, because Wikipedia is not a reliable source." -Wikipedia
So I don't care about your wiki links and images, they're irrelevant. You cry about misinformation when you're likely to be quoting wiki articles that include misinformation yourself, hypocrite.
3. Stop going back to the 4% gachas thing, I already addressed that multiple times, Nexon KR is being sued and fined for misleading players about the gacha boxes, Nexon NA is known to do events with rigged boxes they claim is "random" that really isn't and better items are almost impossible to get without even telling players so Nexon NA also has ZERO credibility when it comes to what rates they tell players. Even if they write on their little news page that there is a "4% chance" doesn't mean it's true because they have NO CREDIBILITY. But you're an idiot, you don't know how Nexon is infamous for rigging gacha/loot box rates and have been doing it for a very long time in Vindictus, so you take their word for it. And this isn't even about 4% gachas you r etard, this is about any gachas/loot boxes that Nexon claims to be "random" period, intentionally using misleading text so people think the odds of each item are actually equal when they aren't, Nexon KR didn't even provide the rates in the first place and that was because they made the rates so ridiculously low - I don't understand how in the hell or why you would defend this unless you're just a piece of s hit that likes to lie and deceive people yourself. The reason why I originally brought up the 4% gachas as well is because Nexon has a serious credibility issue, there is little to no reason to trust them when they give rates on ANYTHING because they're likely to be lying about it, just like they've lied about other rates the other 9342832832823 times, last time I'm going to say this. If it's too hard for you to understand that, that's your problem.
This guy is kissing Nexon's ass on another level lol It's well known that Nexon NA has been misleading players for YEARS claiming boxes were "random" when they really weren't, you must be new. They are known to do this, it's hilarious how you're in such denial. Several hundreds of people have looked at this thread and you're THE ONLY ONE trying to defend Nexon and their actions, I wonder why that is? Nexon fanboys are unbelievable.
No, you are irrelevant. Those numbers are official numbers from Blizzard which have been picked up by many major websites.( rolling stone, pcgamer, polygon ; just a few)
Academic writing, yes rtard I'm writing an academic paper here.
Being sued doesn't mean you are at fault rtard, that's why you have the opportunity to defend yourself against accusations brought against you. The Judge decides that.
All of your statements are biased and have no legal proof, aka: Talking out of your ass.
Did someone hurt you ? Did u buy boxes and didnt drop anything?
Poor little victim you, being cheated by the big evil company.
Just quit the game if you haven't quit already. We're good here without you No one will mourn you.
Come back when you have actual proof of Nexon NA doing those sort of things. Again accusations without proof = 0. Your opinion = 0
''They're likely, I think, Maybe, I heard there'' = 0
Those are just legal facts.
You just proven my point your very much biased.
Your arguments being Wikipedia is Fake, and Nexonfanboy. Can see how much of a child you are.. buhuuuubuhuuuu.
Does everything have to come from a dictionary to be true?
I'm done with you babyboy. Best of luck to you with your endeavors fighting evil big rich companies. Watch out Google, hide your algorithms he's out there and he may post on some forums.
Comments
Well guess what? They are rigged.
"In promoting the puzzle event, Nexon informed users that the 16 pieces would be provided at random. In reality, however, the odds of obtaining some of the pieces was as low as 0.5 percent. By depriving users of this information, the FTC said the gamemaker led ordinary users to believe that the odds of getting each puzzle piece would be equal. "
Source: http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180402000884
This means that these supposedly "random" boxes, cubes, dice, whatever event they're claiming things are random in really have it setup where chances to get certain items are ridiculously low, the odds aren't what Nexon says they are and players are being deceived.
So when players are told "there is a 5% chance to get X item" from that $1 or $5 gachaphon box you don't even know if that's really the true rate or if you're being lied to.
When you do these "random" events no, it isn't really random, the odds of getting the better items are much lower than other items. That dice you see being rolled in-game isn't what's really going on in the system behind the scenes, it's actually set up so the number you get will make it so your chances are higher to get the junk items and almost never get the good items.
Nothing like greedy lying developers using deceptive tactics like this just to steal more money from players. Now you understand why people say Nexon is a greedy moneyhungry game company.
And don't try to say "oh well that's a different game, it doesn't say Vindictus" - please don't be this stupid, Vindictus is a game run by Nexon too, you don't think they're going to be following the same deceptive practices with their other games to try and steal as much money as possible from players? If lying to players about gachaphon rates is working with one game and they're stealing all this money from players of course they're going to do it with their other games like Vindictus.
So yeah, this has probably been going on for years with Vindictus gachas and "random" events and now they've finally been exposed and sued for deceiving players.
Good job FTC and thank you DragonRider for sharing this.
You do know that Random doesn't mean equal chances. 99 % vs 1% it is still random. The odds are different.
Because those are the odds? for example the Iset pet box, You have a 4% chance to get one of the pets or the avatars, and 96 % chance of getting one of the other ''junk'' items. Now what do u think will come up more between 4% and 96 %.
Don't really know what's the case with the other games, I guess let a judge decide if they are being sued.
But yeah Random doesn't mean equal chances... if they say equal chances with that exact expression or give percentage numbers which show equal chances it wont be equal and then get pissed cause u don't drop the item.
"Random doesn't mean equal chances."
LOL sorry dude you're an idiot. Here is a definition of the word "random" from Dictionary.com.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/random?s=t
What does that say?
There is no "99% vs 1%" when it comes to something being TRULY random. If an event or cash shop item is claimed to be "random" then having some items have a 99% drop rate and others 1% is NOT random and that's why Nexon is being sued. It's not hard to understand.
I can't believe you just said 99% vs 1% is random. You really don't see how that's rigged and the odds are AGAINST you in that? That's not what random is, that's just plain "we're going to make it near impossible for you to get this item and steal all your money".
Please stay in school man, you have no idea what you're talking about and you clearly don't know how probability is SUPPOSED to work.
As far as gachas that have the 4 or 5% chance to get pets or Iset outfits, pets and whatnot, the point of this article is that Nexon is lying and deceiving players about the odds of getting items from cash shop gacha boxes. Obviously if an item only has a 5% chance and Nexon makes that clear then it won't be obtained very often, that's common sense.
But they're sitting here saying the chance to get this item is "random" when it really isn't - the odds are not equal when they should be to get that random item, the odds are MUCH lower than what players are being led to believe.
The issue with lying about ANY drop rates in the first place is the fact that now players can't trust Nexon to keep their word about what the ACTUAL drop rate is for ANY items from cash shop "random" boxes or gachas, death cubes, you name it - they can tell you the chance to get that Iset pet or outfit is 4% or 5% when it's really half that or even less than 1%.
They might make a post saying "the chances to get this pet or avatar/outfit item is 5%" then later change those rates on people to rake in more dough and steal even more money from players, now we have to wonder whether they're doing that or not, if they've been lying all this time about the drop rate of one cash shop item how do we know they aren't lying about the other gacha cash shop items? Because clearly they've been lying to players to steal more money from them so why not keep doing it with other games and other gacha boxes?
You're really just making a fool of yourself if you're trying this hard to defend and find some way to justify a company deceiving players like this.
I'm not arguing the odds are against you, of course they are, look at the numbers.
And thank you for the definition of Randomness from the dictionary u are a life saver.
Just to make it clear, the event is RANDOM, the outcomes of the event don't have equal probabilities of occurrence. They are not 50-50
It is not rigged against you, if you do not like those odds do not purchase the boxes. If you don't like the odds of gambling to not play slot machines and whatever else gambling game where the odds are ''rigged'' against you. No one is forcing you to do it.
They never said it's equal or 50-50. When they say that and its not go ahead and sue them, even in the case of the puzzle game if what I've read is correct. It's just peoples interpretation of random, oh it's random then its 50-50.
If you go on random generator website and you put in a pool of 100 numbers, hit the generate button the odds of you getting a particular number are not 50-50 it's 1 in 100, = 1%.
Same as with the items in the game, 4 % of getting one of the following, if there are 10 items in that pool you have a 0.4% chance of getting 1 of those individual items.
If you do not like the odds dont purchase the box.
I have a problem with spreading misinformation and throwing accusation around without any sort of proof.
Yeah that's all I needed to hear from you to confirm you really are this stupid.
Like I said, stay in school, you clearly don't understand even the basic concepts of probability.
"They never said it's equal or 50-50"
And that is why they're being sued fool, because they claimed the event was RANDOM, leading players to think chances of getting items were equal when some of the item chances were as low as 0.5% - that's not random, they lied, simple.
Why do you think they DIDN'T say the chances were equal? Because they purposely made some of the gacha item rates so ridiculously low that if players knew, barely anyone would even bother buying them. So they just claim "random" chance so they have all these people wasting all this money trying to get items from that gacha box with such a low rate it might as well not even exist in the game - 0.5% chance really?
"It's not rigged against you"
So you're really trying to say if one item only has a 0.5% chance to be obtained while junk items have much higher chances the odds aren't against you, that that isn't rigged - after players are told it's "random", meaning the chances of each item should be the same. Yeah you really are that stupid.
I doubt you even read the article or you just don't understand what the hell you read, reading comprehension must be an issue with you. Because you seem really confused doing all this math like you're smart and you know what you're talking about when really all of that is irrelevant.
And stop saying 50-50, you're implying random means 50% for each side of a dice piece and that's just stupid. Again, random means an equal chance for each individual item not "50-50".
Can't believe I'm having to explain what the definition of random is.
And no one is spreading "misinformation" you just seem to have some serious reading comprehension issues and are confused. You're trying to act like you're smart with your little math when you're not even using the right numbers in the first place.
You aren't even sure if you understood what you read in the article lol
Just stop dude, you're literally trying to defend thieves and lying developers that are intentionally hiding information from players to steal their money.
As if this hasn't been the case for like past 15 years or so in gaming industry through season passes/preorders/early accesses.
They do say random, and they also give u the percentage rate in our case, Btw if some law applies in KR doesnt mean it applies in the United States u dumb ****.
EX: 4% Out of the pool of 11 items we have now in the current gachas, is about 0.3 % to get one of those particular items, yesss that low. Yet people still have the choice to buy them or not. Same as if they play the slot machines and expect to win the jackpot. Go sue the gambling companies for not revealing the true odds of a jackpot u dumb monkey. Good luck with that.
It doesnt have to be equal chances, its their company and game, they can make it 0000000.1 they are not forcing it onto you. You can either buy it or dont, it's a free market.
Im not even defending Nexon, you're just spreading bullshit. Like they HAVE TO . They do not HAVE TO do anything for you. They have to reveal the exact rates of each item in the gacha? Point me to the US law that says that. US not Korea, or China or whatever else country.
Very good that they got fined in KR for misleading people, not arguing that.
1. What I said has nothing to do with laws in any country, that's irrelevant. This isn't about Korean vs American laws because if Nexon KR says f uck the rules and the laws, we're going to lie to players about gacha item rates to steal player's money" then Nexon NA can do the same and it's likely they are doing just that
Example: We had an event where you would get what Nexon called RANDOM "mysterious ice cubes" - there were some really good items you could get from it like I think enhance coupons. The overwhelming majority of players got nothing but AP capsules, I was in a guild with at least 50 active members, every single one of them got nothing but AP capsules.
So what does that tell you? These mysterious ice cubes were NOT random like Nexon NA said they were, they were made so the chances to get the good items like enhance coupons were stupidly low, to the point where almost no one could get it.
So yeah, Nexon NA is definitely doing the very same thing as KR is and it has happened time and time again with events they've held where anything was claimed to be "random".
So if we can't trust Nexon NA to tell the truth about simple event items why should we trust them when they say "this Succubus and Iset set has a 4% chance" from the gacha boxes here? There is no way to know for sure that they aren't actually lying about that number, the same way they've lied about these "random" event items like the mysterious ice cubes, the same way Nexon KR is now being sued and fined for lying about their supposed "random" gachas that weren't really random with some items having a rate as low as 0.5%. I think you see the pattern here.
Keep in mind Nexon NA makes a lot less money than Nexon KR and KR just got caught lying about their gacha rates just to steal money from players. So why wouldn't Nexon NA follow suit and do the same? They need the money even more than KR so why not lie about gacha rates here and steal NA players money too? Nexon NA needs the money even more and is even more likelier to be lying about gacha rates even if they say what the rates are. They can tell you that Iset set has a 4% chance but the rate could actually be just 1 or 2% or even less so you give them more money to try and get that set or pet you want, if you ever do get it.
Just something to think about.
2. I'm not even going to waste my time discussing the equal chances thing with you anymore. You're the same **** that is trying to convince someone that random doesn't mean equal after I showed you the dictionary definition of random specifically states that random means there is an equal chance to obtain each item. You're the same idiot trying to say it's really okay for Nexon to claim items obtained from certain gachas are "random" and not truly make them random but make certain items from that "random" gacha near impossible to get.
That's like me betting $100 with you over whether a quarter will land on heads or tails but I made it a special type of quarter that will land on the side that I want 99.9% of the time so I almost always win and you always lose - does that sound random to you? Does that sound fair to you if it's supposed to be random? That doesn't even make any sense does it?
Fanboys like you 'RobertLivia' that just can never stop kissing ass to these evil, moneyhungry greedy game companies no matter how much they f uck over their own players make me f ucking sick.
Never said im defending the company even made remarks about it.
But you just keep on going with ur retarded claims.
Not 1 game will give you equal chances in a random box that costs money.
Legendary skins in overwatch are more rare than normal stuff, yet those boxes are still random monkeyboy.
Now to which extent that rarity is depends on the company that is releasing those boxes.
RANDOM DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE EQUAL CHANCES BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE ITEMS IN THE POOL OF ITEMS THAT CAN BE DRAWN RANDOMLY FROM IT GIVING THEIR CHANCES.
In our Case they never say its only Random even they even give you the percentage rates.
If the item lets say has a flat 10% drop rate and the others have 90%. YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED TO DROP 1 ITEM OUT OF 10 BOXES. Even if the chance is 1 in 10 Because its RANDOM.
Im out, I explained enough how randomness works in a game.
You coin theory even proves that, even if its 50-50 you can still hit head or tails 10 times in a row.
Regarding the ice cube, I doubt what u are saying and call bullshit. I can also say I know people who bought 30 and got alot more out of them than ap capsules.
Bye. Have a nice random life.
When your mommy has her own gaming company then u can tell her to make better odds for boxes. And make them truly Random. Like your dictionary definition.
I'll say it for you even though it's been stated for you already and even quoted from a literal definition: random means thatall outcomes have an equal chance of occurring. The issue is that Nexon claimed the prizes were random. Random has one and only one meaning. If there is a bias towards one thing over another there are differing odds and an impossibility of randomness. If something is advertised as random and it is not, then it is a violation of FTC standards, period. That should not be hard to grasp.
Not only u lose the focus on the main issue but u also risk that this thread get closed cause too much fire...
Robert cash from unknown time and always supported nexon (even reporting any kind of bs to nexon for the sake of some justice/jellyness who knows).
In the end it doesn't really matter cause
the game needs someone who cash anyway or it might be closed someday.
Back to the topic i want to add some things that have been skipped about it.
The article says the case is dated back to 2016. Maybe only a few of you remember that back in the past nexon 'never' told us what were the chance to find certain items.
They started to publish these rates only recently (1 year or 2) which coincide perfectly with the start of this process in kr. Probably once the mess was done there, they wanted to avoid more law issues elsewhere. So one day the rates for the gacha magically appeared also here but nobody knew what was behind.
Also, the fine is not only referred to the missing rates but 'also for the unfair too much low rates' of the mentioned item.
Read better the article...
Nexon being shady is known since long.
Back in the past, a group of korean players succesfully tested an old gacha in vindictus and the found out that the players who had more nx items in their nx inventory were subject to a weird boost in luck about rares in game and gachas.
These players opened a serious investigation with actual evidences and when the whole thing came up Nexon kr just closed the case with smt like: oh yeah we found out you are right but wasn't intended. It is just a 'bug'. Patched and fixed case closed.
(Pretty well programmed bug tho).
Unfortunately I don't have the article link here but im pretty sure some of you heard about it.
That said i could bet on a thing that i saw happening too many times to call it coincidence. Day one of any gachas rares pop up everywhere giving the illusion and attracting ppl that it is a easy win.
In the next days when ppl buy a lot of them cause teased, weirdely rares start to disappear and become incredibly hard to find. Coincidence? I don't think so. The logic behind is quite easy to understand.
So, despite it might be just speculations, the rates are 'tweaked' more times to their advantage. Fair? Not at all.
The rates we have into the client which anybody can datamine doesn't represent the same rates on the server side...
The server side could use the same client rate plus other variables that only they knows, or even a totally different calculation of the rates. Server is not the same as the client and many stuffs (fair or not) are just hidden to us.
Robert says whoever sell u smt whatever are the conditions, it is in their right to sell how they want and your rights to decide to buy or no.
Partially true imo. U could say that for private sellings but if we talk globally there are actual 'laws' that rule the markets and even prices, same as exist differents istitutions that safeguard the consumers against any kind of illegal or unfair tradings.
I personally saw ppl spending about 500 euro to find a pet or a set and they found nothing. I believe every player that spend over a 'human' amount of money in those gambles should be assured something back like the chance to get a pet or a set.
Some of you might say: ehi then I should be assured a money win on the slotmachines if i spend enough? No.
But if we are talking about buying digital abstract items that worth absolutely 0 especially cause u don't really own anything of the things u buy in game.
The day the game close you will lose 'everything'. So the slot machine and the general gamble were u have the chance to win smt worthy can't be applied in this case.
Yes that person got his set in the end with coupons after 500 euro spent, but does that digital item worth that much?
NOT AT ALL. And as if it wasn't enough the gachas went from 990nx to 1900nx and from 250 coupons for a rare to 450...
I understand costs and expenses for a company but i guess that some choices goes beyond any kind of 'morality'.
Here you go, random box + percentage rates to obtain said items. Go report them/sue them. Best of luck!!!! Tell them the dictionary contradicts them. Cause you haven't heard of random selection.
Btw here is Blizzard with Overwatch saying the same thing. Source: http://overwatch.wikia.com
But wait, that cant be right.. they use the word Random... and then they give you the percentage chances of obtaining said items.. and they are not equal.. .. but but ... the dictionary...
Go report Blizzard as well and sue them, see how far that gets you
But yeah it's illegal keep it on the quiet guys.. these 2 have uncovered a conspiracy.. all with the help of their dictionary. God bless their souls.
Please quote the dictionary again so I can laugh some more in your face.
What Nexon actually stated in that article if people haven't actually read it. Is exactly what I was saying, "Provided at random but with different odds to obtain particular items'' And they plan to fight the FTC's interpretation.
Just so people don't spread misinformation based on their personal opinions and their dictionary.
It is a 4% chance to get one of those items. The FTC has issue with the fact that Nexon is making that seem like the odds to get anything in that bucket is then a (4/11)% change but of course it isn't... (Note the US has no rules for this, so we can't sue...)
And of course they are going to fight it. The last thing they want to do is let the FTC set precedent of fining them ~1 million dollars for every false/incomplete statement they make ;-) I don't know any corporation that doesn't fight things like this and then settle with a statement saying that they did no wrong, but in the future will be more transparent, etc...
This.
I think this "RobertLivia" dude must be some foreigner or something, English isn't his first language so it's difficult for him to interpret and understand the proper definition of the word random.
He's confused, he's even trying to prove a dictionary definition of the word wrong lol
DIdn't even bother reading your post but skimming through it I already knew it was irrelevant - even posting Overwatch wiki images LOL
1. This isn't Overwatch, this isn't Blizzard.
2. Wikipedia isn't a credible source to use to prove anything fool - this information is written by regular players, not Blizzard themselves and it's common knowledge that Wikipedia is known to provide inaccurate and incomplete information. Wikipedia even tells you that themselves idiot.
"Wikipedia is not a reliable source for academic writing or research." -Wikipedia
"This is especially true considering anyone can edit the information given at any time, and although most errors are immediately fixed, some errors remain unnoticed, for weeks, months, or even years." - Wikipedia
"However, citation of Wikipedia in research papers may be considered unacceptable, because Wikipedia is not a reliable source." -Wikipedia
So I don't care about your wiki links and images, they're irrelevant. You cry about misinformation when you're likely to be quoting wiki articles that include misinformation yourself, hypocrite.
3. Stop going back to the 4% gachas thing, I already addressed that multiple times, Nexon KR is being sued and fined for misleading players about the gacha boxes, Nexon NA is known to do events with rigged boxes they claim is "random" that really isn't and better items are almost impossible to get without even telling players so Nexon NA also has ZERO credibility when it comes to what rates they tell players. Even if they write on their little news page that there is a "4% chance" doesn't mean it's true because they have NO CREDIBILITY. But you're an idiot, you don't know how Nexon is infamous for rigging gacha/loot box rates and have been doing it for a very long time in Vindictus, so you take their word for it. And this isn't even about 4% gachas you r etard, this is about any gachas/loot boxes that Nexon claims to be "random" period, intentionally using misleading text so people think the odds of each item are actually equal when they aren't, Nexon KR didn't even provide the rates in the first place and that was because they made the rates so ridiculously low - I don't understand how in the hell or why you would defend this unless you're just a piece of s hit that likes to lie and deceive people yourself. The reason why I originally brought up the 4% gachas as well is because Nexon has a serious credibility issue, there is little to no reason to trust them when they give rates on ANYTHING because they're likely to be lying about it, just like they've lied about other rates the other 9342832832823 times, last time I'm going to say this. If it's too hard for you to understand that, that's your problem.
This guy is kissing Nexon's ass on another level lol It's well known that Nexon NA has been misleading players for YEARS claiming boxes were "random" when they really weren't, you must be new. They are known to do this, it's hilarious how you're in such denial. Several hundreds of people have looked at this thread and you're THE ONLY ONE trying to defend Nexon and their actions, I wonder why that is? Nexon fanboys are unbelievable.
Academic writing, yes rtard I'm writing an academic paper here.
Being sued doesn't mean you are at fault rtard, that's why you have the opportunity to defend yourself against accusations brought against you. The Judge decides that.
All of your statements are biased and have no legal proof, aka: Talking out of your ass.
Did someone hurt you ?
Poor little victim you, being cheated by the big evil company.
Just quit the game if you haven't quit already. We're good here without you
Come back when you have actual proof of Nexon NA doing those sort of things. Again accusations without proof = 0. Your opinion = 0
''They're likely, I think, Maybe, I heard there'' = 0
Those are just legal facts.
You just proven my point your very much biased.
Your arguments being Wikipedia is Fake, and Nexonfanboy. Can see how much of a child you are.. buhuuuubuhuuuu.
Does everything have to come from a dictionary to be true?
I'm done with you babyboy. Best of luck to you with your endeavors fighting evil big rich companies. Watch out Google, hide your algorithms he's out there and he may post on some forums.