MORE DETAIL ON POST 11
Hello everyone, I'm a fan of computer games and I've tried many in my life.
Always fantastic to be a developer, because in my mind I always mix ideas on how to improve a game and I would like to be in the development team and be able to discuss
.
If there is a Korean player that is present here, please copy the post and post it translated into the Korean forum, it would be a great pleasure for me.
OBJECTIVES:
- Increase the number of players in play
- Offer more interactions between players and prolong the gaming experience by having more players online
- Increase combact gratification through the re-introduction of combos (10%-15%)
- Addition of new PVP modes to expand the target of the players
- Increase the earnings of NEXON
1) Hugs, kisses and new interactions.
Analyzing the concept of online rpg, you can well understand that the purpose of the players participating in the game is not just to destroy the monsters,
but it is to interact with other players, to chat but even to express emotions to your character.
This is the basis in a successful online game.
More players interact with each other in the "pause" areas (in our case colhen, rocheste etc.),
the greater the time spent online, giving the players more entertainment opportunities.
I was happy with the introduction of new emoticons, but these stop at its character without going any further.
The addition of hug, kisses (different sex) and handshakes (same sex), would bring benefits to the whole community, offering more fun,
and guaranteeing the addition of a new target of players for the game.
A player can send a request in real time to interact with others;
These can accept or decline through a panel, and according to its class (and sex therefore) there will be different interactions.
For example, a lann and an evie can kiss each other, two kai shake hands, karok and hurk they greet each other with their fists.
Since among many classes there is an evident disparity in height (and it is not possible to set the height during the example kiss at 1 - 1) add new interactions,
for example a karok can take a lynn on his back and carry it around, same thing for hurk and lynn.
The kiss among the other classes will be available for her. Karok a-hurk can embrace kissing with other female, bending with one leg (or other set scales 1-1).
In addition, a formal ceremony will be possible to get married (the wedding clothes we already have them) guaranteeing a bonus when the couple play together.
2) New PVP mode - moba style
We all know about the success of moba, (dota, league of legend, smile) in terms of both players and revenue.
IN SHORT:
My proposal is based on the addition of a new type of pvp, MOBA style.
If we analyze what we need is already everything in the game; Map editor, Heroes, minor monsters, primary monsters, ability to access upgrades via shop.
Basically 6 heroes on each side, they must destroy the opponent's bases with the help of the secondary monsters, overcome the buildings (and or bosses) on the central areas of the map, perhaps applying certain stimulants that can be purchased in the shop with special points
resulting from the killing of monsters.
it's feasible, just enter it with minor changes in the game and it's done. With the advertising, many new players will enter the game attracted by the excellent playability and the frenetic style of the character in the third person.
A pvp insertion system will be made available according to your level, not an opponent with 10 levels more than you, to balance.
I know that the classes are unbalanced but this is a secondary problem and there is time to correct it.
In addition these players who enter only for the pvp, can try the pve ensuring the game a not just influx of new arrivals.
3) PVE compensate - Re-introduction Combo (10 - 15%)
who played the XE knows how fun the combos were. For those who do not know, basically when you hit an opponent without receiving hiu, (and based on a different number per class), you received a bonus of up to 50% additional damage.
The problem arose that the bonus was substantial and certain classes benefited more than others.
I suggest re-introducing the combo system, keeping the combo count in the XE the same with the addition of combos on smash for ALL classes, but keeping the extra damage down, between 10% and 15% (so if you start from 100 arrivals to a maximum of 115), such that there is not one big difference between classes,
but to keep the fun that the combo system allowed, perhaps rewarding players with strong and poor skills.
I could go further but I did not want to do a kilometer post. Basically these are my ideas that I would develop to revive vindictus (if i was part of devcat)
A note for the players;
On vindictus there will always be the main updates for the pve; these are suggestions that should be extended to the game experience outside the pve, while maintaining a strong link with it.
The basic objective in fact raises the number of players involved, giving benefits to everyone and extending its existence. [curious data, we have so much pve, that most of the players play the s3, apart from ein lancher)
Infact these are feasible projects:
If we think that when a new "boss" is developed it must be created from 0, create the relative animations and AI tested in battle, it should not be difficult to make interactions between the characters, with less development than a main boss.
The height problems as already mentioned can be solved in various ways.
Even the new maps for the pvp with its new mode is feasible, and as regards the combo system just change the code.
My final goal is therefore to offer changes to the game with low production costs by the developers and to give nexon the highest possible earning potential.
I would be honored if some Korean player published this post in the Korean forum for greater visibility.
A supporter of vindictus,
Thank you
Comments
Please keep your shitty roleplay outside the game, thank you
We already had something like that, called Boss Brawl. Since it's been completely removed from the game, I'll let you guess how popular it was. People here don't care for PVP because it's just unbalanced, and the only way to change things would be to develop a whole different game
This is honestly the only decent point you made, but it's been suggested so many times it won't ever happen.
Also, keep in mind suggestions here in NA NEVER reach Korea. It's not a problem of communication, NA staff just doesn't care reading the threads, and I have my doubts Korea checks Koren players' suggestions
It’s pretty easy to say these things the other thing is actually realising them. Increase the number of players? Nexon doesn’t advertise the game and in all honesty the only thing that they can advertise would be the only thing which is good in Vindictus is the combat system. Same type of PvE content isn’t really worth advertising (I guess you can argue with Redeemers being something different, but it doesn’t change the fact that the whole PvE in Vindictus was/is based around the same concept – learn pre-animations and adjust it to your own timing) I find this part completely pointless. What they COULD however add is the housing system, similar to the one in WarFrame. That way they could make the decorations available in cashshop and profit on them without the game becoming full P2W (like they’re doing now with runes). To comment about Marriage system, hugging and kissing… There is a lot of grey area because most of those can be considered sexual acts. While I have an already formed opinion about this I don’t think this should be implemented because of other people’s believes. I mean we already see how the political (left and right) people can be. So I’d advice on staying away from those things to not start a debate which won’t even contribute to the game be more alive.
What I however could advice is to make guilds more relevant. 7 years and we still can’t invite people to the guild (THE BUTTON IS STILL **** GREY). Bonus rewards for doing things with your guild, additional departure on raids etc… (However limit a person on only being able to change guilds every 3-5 days so people can’t really abuse this bonus – because let’s be real Vindictus is basically a foundation on how to exploit a certain bug/mechanic). There was some talk of implementing guild housing but that is still in the air, if they go for that that'd be pretty neat.
D-did someone say PvP?! :eyes: Well as most from EU already knows I am pretty opinionative on Vindictus’ PvP. Hell the only reason why I stuck in this game was mainly because of it. You’ve suggested that you make Vindcitus’ PvP in a form of a MOBA game. As someone who plays League of Legends on daily basis I am gonna strongly oppose this idea. The only thing which you can take from MOBA games and implement it would be the ranking system where you’d get matched with people of your own rank. Because no matter what people say about it. There is a lot more to Vindictus’ PvP than ANY OTHER MMO and like it or not it takes way more personal development(skill) to be good at it. However, I’m not gonna start this discussion again because I’ve already debunked it on my previous threads. Moving on, there are 3(4) things which push people away from PvPing.
Number one – Not rewarding enough.
Number two – The way the game is optimized
Number three – Gear depending and scallings in PvP
(Number four – A.A.F.K. or ATTACKING AFTER **** KNOCKDOWN/KNOCKBACK)
If people tried to actually learn the mechanics of PvP – how grabbing, invulnerability buff, smash attacks and normal attacks work, learn how to manage their stamina, realise that they shouldn’t spam attacks.
In my honest opinion Vindictus’ has it’s PvP designed mostly for 1v1 fights, when we expand it to 6v6 for example we have a problem of certain classes completely shining in PvP and due to the fact that people don’t understand how it works Hurks just end up shining cause people stack their revenge endlessly.
However one thing I know, despite all of the suggestions we make about PvP, even if it’d be the most godlike suggestion they’d never implement it. Why? Because balancing a PvP game takes way more time and thought put into it along with testing and guess what if KR doesn’t like PvP then our suggestions mean nothing. The game is made for KR players and they just consider us an outside audience that was allowed to play their game. I mean look at the PvP tournament – everyone got it besides EU and NA. Pretty much gives you an idea how much they actually care about it. Probably the biggest potential wasted. Even if they were to implemented now everyone who was devoted to PvP left game – myself included. DesireOfMine, Me(DualStaB), Ethereaal, KuraiHotaru, Mirabilia, Seakko, YourichiShihoin, Deathlok… Hell I could list so many names now but these are the people I could think off of the top of my head.
I’d really love to see this. In fact I bet that most of the community would. But sadly it will never happen. Our combo system already got replaced by att limit release. Everything is now being pushed to numbers. PvE is more stat dependant than it ever was.
Typed this from my phone so it might be a bit messy
I didn't read I just saw title and had to :<
Why? Your answer lacks arguments. how could this affect the players negatively?
They are optional actions, which do not affect the combat and gamaplay, but provide entertainment to the players.
It is also a strong point given that few online games have this opportunity.
If you do not like it you can ignore this function, it does not affect its gameplay in the slightest. The more a game offers entertainment, the more players there will be
. In addition, I would put these new emotions at the price of 3k nx, guaranteeing revenue to nexon.
I've never tried boss brawl unfortunately. But from the different videos I saw it was not bad. From my point of view it was a mistake to remove it, several players would have continued to play ..Of course the pvp is unbalanced but this does not justify its removal. The pvp is one of the keys to a successful online game, although i agree with of all you that vindictus was born for the pve;
but that's where the point is
We offer pvp-oriented players the chance to try vindictus for that, offer them something to do and in the meantime they can even try the pve department. So it's a win and win.
The pvp is in decline, i know, however there are still people like me that participates in the arena, death match, and siege, why? because it entertains us (in memory of greg's vella xD)
In addition it is optional, but if properly organized and gradually upgrading patches, it could have very good repercussions on the population.
All the optional things that can entertain, can bring benefits to everyone, even to those who do not use them , benefiting an increase in the number of players.
They also do not require high changes, ensuring a modest investment with a high profit. More profit for nexon = more i can work for vindictus (if i was dev)= more players.
.... If you think maybe buying new emotions, or how a pvp player can spend money in game to enhance your character (that is alredy exist for pve and for apparence).......
I know that there are few chances to see it in the korea forum (and even more they read), but I do my part and take the pebble out of my shoe.
I don't know if is possible but I'd like them to discuss it.. On another way is more hard to create something from 0 than this.. They have alredy the ingredients.. I not suggest to implement pvp vindictus like a moba.. I suggested to create a NEW mode with New map like the moba.. So we still have arena, siege, deathmatch and moba.
Yes infact pvp vindi is unbalanced and the fact as you posted, is hard and long to balance. So that in my opinion first you implement new mode, attract new players and the balance it with time and resources..
As the fact of kiss etc.. sexuality I remember that we have lingerie far more provocative than just a kiss. (and bouncing boobs).. But dont remember the age limits for vindictus..
Roleplay is fine... if you open a new server for roleplayers! It brings to the table too many questions and in the end it only benefits a few while making it awkward for the majority. Who pays for the wedding and the rings, will it be gold or nx? who proposes? why not same-sex or interspecies (miri is part human?!) what about Lynn who's 16? or what about people who want to forget about couple life (either a bad one or lack thereof). And in my book, what's worse is that you want the devs to profit from this... it's like having to pay extra to see the boobs jiggle. Or play nude, where does the entertainment stop? Why not new dungeons, events, outfits, 3rd weapons, weapon skins, challenges, a new and improved labyrinth etc. Stuff with more weight and practicality.
If you want real changes, check boards, youtube video commentaries and their comment section and you will see there a few legitimate complaints. Peer to peer hosting, enchant/enhancement system in this game is atrocious, ip-locked regions, grindfest (and RNG), bad optimization, content is released too slowly, pay-to-progress. If pvp were a thing, game would be quickly labeled as p2w.
No mention of server migration, Rise update and how to counter them... they killed the game in the west. You may have played many games but obviously you haven't played much Vindictus.
Sure we can make suggestions about it, I made a lot of them, so did Greg (DesireOfMine). We didn't get anything and all of those suggestions were backed by claims and facts. Both him and I truly enjoyed PvP, but it's rather obvious that they don't care about what we say. If they did they'd at least implement one of the things we suggested. The only thing we were EVER told is that one of the GM's forwarded the forum thread to the higherups. ONCE. The content is entirely based on how KR's feel about it. Nothing will ever get solved by Nexon NA (nor old EU) because they have no power.
You can look at this way. If you take the combat system away from Vindictus what will the game be left with? This game was surfing on the glory of it's combat system for so long that I am truly surprised. The amount of bugs is unreal, the content couldn't be more repetitive, everything is peer-to-peer, the gearing system is horrendous, after we transfered from XE to Premiere personal preformance started mattering less, then Rise hit and now stats prevail everything, there is no such thing as early game nor middle game, there isn't even much content to play (5 months per boss to get released when you can actually learn the boss in <7 days flawlessly). I highly doubt that the EU/NA will be up for more than 3-4 years especially with the way it's going - but hey, that's just my that's just my two cents.
This can only be done if the remove the height customization on all chars and make every char the same height regardless of footwear(FYI it changes), or do you want them to program every single height variant or make those animations clunky as hell, those 3 options are awful and that is why it wont happen
I play since vella release (often on the week), and I know the majority of vindictus problems.
It would be nice if they were correct, but many remain unresolved and undeveloped.
Technically, as I said, if I were dev, I would worry about earning as much money as possible with the least investment. (or better knowing how they think after all these years as a consumer). But do not get me wrong .. If I were a dev of a video game I would treat my consumers better, but knowing nexon ...
Might be worth trying on new fronts ..
Well who did not give a kiss at 16, I do not see anything wrong. As for the heights in fact I do not know if it's possible, I'm not a developer of code, but I wondered if you can add a function "in the animation that determines a fixed height, which at the end you return to the original values. concerns only the kisses, but also possible other interactions, handshakes, hugs, etc.
If later it is not feasible, but at least I gave the proposal.
about pvp, i agree that this is a path nexon should go for if they want to attract players. improving the pvp combat system, balancing chars, improving the concept and the rewarding for it can do awesome things with this game.
the 1st question ppl ask me when i talk of vindictus is "do you have to grind?". ppl nowdays are looking for the immediate reward and pleasure.
most ppl these days dont play 1 game only (or doesnt have much time to invest in games) . vindictus is "rewarding" for the long term - you have to grind, be afk for events, etc. this concept is old, not rewarding and eventually boring. the only thing fun in vindictus to me rn is the combat system which keeps going down the drain. i dont even try to learn the current pvp concepts since how badly pvp is optimized, but i think if vindictus will go that road and finally evolve as other games do, it will be 1000 times more popular than it ever was.
1) Kisses and hugs: So before the LGBT community gets triggered that a Karok can not bend a Sylas and go to town(jk) . Could work but there has to be green lighted on both ends, other wise you have noob players kiss assaulting every players. (I play an Evie and well she is dress ero-kawaii and i get weird messages). But some greeting could be fine like high fives ( we have a Rock paper and scissor thing but kinda forgotten) . At first time playing i thought we had a mechanic where we could carry team mate like we did with Tieve in the starting mission. Will be a lot of work since you gotta have models match up and we come in all different sizes.
2) Moba: Unless they fix character balancing and have a dedicated server it will be impossible. People with good connection wipe the floor with player with bad connections, and a herd of Karoks with the super armor and blast attacks scare me. Also i think siege is similar enough kinda, with one base.
3) Combo: Would be nice but with all the Additional damage and nerf bosses runs will be quicker than before. It might have been a good idea back then where the bosses were hard but even now most of S3 bosses barely take 8 mins.
I really want 8 man raids back with the previous difficulty, just rename it to TRUE Hero. Before you all say just play hero mode with 4 people. There is a special synergy with a large group, hell isn't that what joining a guild is for? We can keep 4 man and rename it as Hard so it doesn't insult the pride of some people. Or just play Nean, well Nean is bloody hard with her One hit kills and insane attack power and debuffs. I just want raid to feel like raids not like normal mission with a boss with bigger hp bar.
If I have been, I apologize and now I will try to explain the reason and the meaning of the post.
I am well aware that our forum is almost non-existent for the Koreans and it is also true that already suggestions in the Korean forum are hard to be noticed.
It is an almost useless post but I do it for hobby, for the sake of it.
Now my hope is that someone publish it in the Korean forum, the possibilities are minimal, I do not allude but it's okay so, I did my part.
I agree with you when you say that the (priority) problems of vindictus are many and that should be fixed and / or correct (poor optimization, rng, unbalanced pvp, lack of publicity, no more guild funcion, etc except),
but after all these years I have not seen progress.
There are even those who argue not wrongly that the publisher is only interested in money.
And in fact I asked myself a logical question "Why do not they try to fix everything?"
The most appropriate answer I have given is because obviously the investment that they should make, does not propose an effective income sufficient to earn and / or cover the investment itself.
For example, changing the way of "host" or optimizing the game better.
Or again that it is obviously not worth investing heavily on a 2010 game or they can not for technical reasons.
The other side of the rng and the system of upgrades have sufficient income to not change anything, of course.
(So they focus on the maintenance and the pve department.
Be clear, vindictus is fun for me and I'm glad that they publish new bosses, albeit a bit slow.)
This answer led me to think that obviously they reason in economic terms, rightly so.
I do not have the financial data on vindictus, nor can I say how much they earn in total per month, from runes or from a dress.
it is an indirect reasoning that has led me to the following conclusion, obviously if they do not want to change, that's okay.
If you have come to other conclusions, or have data in hand (which I lack) that confirm other results, let me know just out of curiosity.
Then I based on some historical facts, changes (among many) that occurred on vindictus, interesting if analyzed.
I am not referring to the update of the pv that will always be indispensable, since it is the beating heart of vindictus.
Anyway;
- The European XE client has been eliminated and the premier client, already present in America, has been introduced
- there was the merging of the Australian servers and the two Americans in a single server.
- Rise Update
- Release new emotions
- Release vanguard update
Although the reasons for the first two paragraphs are easily understood by the other three, one can reason together.
Many have complained about how the rise update has simplified the game (at least the first seasons) and there are those who complained that it became too casual.
In fact, I deduce that that was the goal of the update, which is to facilitate the entry and permanence of new players in the game, offering them a new system of upp for weapons and armor (you get to +20 but it is easier to get to 10/12)
also several scrolls that in the past required the rune, now they can be placed safely (well balanced, enthusiastic, fast, resistant etc.) ensuring a good starting point for an equipment.
So we focus on new players entering and putting them at ease.
Even the release of new emotions was curious, but a good move from my point of view.
They probably saw that there was a low-cost earning potential, such that it was worth trying to develop a dozen.
I have only two, taken from events maybe in the future take a couple, since I like them.
Although these actions are optional and not related to the heart of the game, focusing on emotions and any future interactions can be successful in economic terms because man as a social being is intrisically brought to interact with others, especially on the internet.
Now I do not know how much they have earned, I have no data, I can only rely on my spirit of observation (which may be wrong) and I see many players who use these emotions.
Then what was the vanguard update for?
Not to give you those boxes full of xD shoes
But it served to make sense of the creation of more characters, so the players prolong his gaming experience, making the game look a little more "fed" and perhaps inviting him to spend some nx for his secondary characters.
Now I do not think it took a big investment for this thing, more than producing a new raid or creating a new character. So low work / high result possible.
Not having the data in hand, I have to go through the indirect reasoning but if one shows me that to produce vanguard update costs more than a new char, then I accept it quietly.
So I've seen that there is this TREND from devcat and nexon, to reduce costs and focus on a more casual target for the midgame but keeping the rng component and the end game.
Taking note of this thing, I asked myself:
"How can I" tease "their curiosity to consider a suggestion from the forum?"
Obviously through a proposal from low investment and low work but from above (or presumed) performance.
I have argued the proposal based on this reasoning but not only.
So in their "vision" I propose everything you have seen in the first post.
As mentioned above, developing a new pvp-moba mode would bring the interest of that target of players.
Rightly to publicize the pve would be ideal, so why not make a nice trailer with the pve and the new pvp mode that I mentioned.
Then point to the target who likes fighting with the monsters but also to the huge pool of mobi pvp players. Two birds with one stone. The important thing is that they come into play, if they do not like the pvp they try the pve and maybe they spend money.
It does not matter if the PVP is balanced, you can balance it later if it's OK.
Attract mmorpg players with emotions and interactions;
If then there is a law that forbids certain things or the developer tells me that he can not organize the thing that is another matter but at least I tried, since here too the target is wide.
otherwise new emotions develop and you will see that there will be people who will buy them in any case (reason first mentioned).
So I turn the question over if you have the possibility and the desire to respond.
"What would you do if you are a major developer in the devcats, noting the relative trend, to attract as many players as possible in the game with a low work / investment and high profit?"
(but you have to stay in the rng, do not improve the stability of the game ect for the reasons why they do not already obviously)
I tried to answer my questions. If all goes well some players will post this post in korea .. If it goes too well someone in korea could be intrigued ..Otherwise it was a pleasure, and I wrote a little
P.S. Only now i've notice the wall of text i wrote, but it's in my nature writing.
P.S.S Sorry bad english probably you could encounter gram error
Runes will increase the odds of success instead of protecting the item from failure, durability potions will be used to restore weapon's health.
Another big complaint is the grindfest, repeating same dungeons and raids every day of the week, praying to RNGeezas for some booty. People find it boring, not sure what they expect from a Korean MMO grind game and how this could be improved. I can tell reducing raids to 4-man wasn't a step in the direction. see a solution for this @Zeroheart above. Maybe a labyrinth updated for 2018, fighting other mercenaries ruled by ai was surreal the first times.
And because the thread is pointless anyway and i don't want to extend myself on it, lastly
give arisha more variety goddamnit. Every change made her less skill based...faster lmb attacks, mana swap, mana gained from skills (this is legit though) and now free mana at start of the battle. Ending up in solo play or duo as a fist of blade spammer for the majority of the run...and not really punishing when you miss a drain mana or a doom speaker because of so much mana pool. Reroll changes and idk, improve sharpen mana damage or the ruin blade damage executed with 1k sp or more.2. Additional damage, see ya.
3. Item destruction, see ya.
4. More redeemer battles. These raids are just glorified dungeons these days. See point number 2 how to make em raids again.
5. Delete PVP just so see the meltdown from the 5 people who still play it. For the entertainment value
6. Hire more people = faster content.
7. Eight man raids back, get rid of the QB core so people dont start crying for a full party, can start whenever.
8. Make a system where you can earn the coveted +15 weapon by just playing. Once again the entertainment value, where people who got em with before with lottery win have a meltdown cuz OMG U NAB WE WUZ EARNED OUR WEPINZ U GOT IM 4 FREE. If i wanna gamble ill book the earliest flight to Vegas.
9.1 15 is the max enhancement ,dont need the rest see ya.
TL:DR Delete Arisha, Miri, Lynn, Delia, Sylas, more reedeemers, earn the best gear by playing like every other game with proper devs, delete PVP for the lolz, no destruction, rest go back to pre-rise
Who here remembers that the ballistic in Titan raid will stun the boss to get break.
Using Hooks on a down Ancient Glas would have him rip off his own wing (Pure awesomeness back then)
Bombing the crap and crystals off of Aglhan the spinning golem
Running out of the water cause Thor was going to shock everyone.
Ringing the bell in Abomination raid, more and more people are just rushing the boss
Even Lio where you have to bomb the lizard off the back or try to bomb him off the cliff.
Nightmare in the ruins, where you faced two giant spiders.
Colru had a black ball spam attack that had you hit a switch on a wall to save yourself.
The feeling that Inkells was almost dead then he calls out a large mob of dogs and soldier out at his last bar.
Keaghan actually being a bad ass as the first 6 man raid where you were tested on what you have learned about your character. (Now the armor means nothing to new players)
Lako actually swallowing people and jokes about which end you were going to come out as.
though I do like some changes in some boss like Lavaset, his ever regenerating armor is gone. Succubus queen fire trial is gone. God of death last bar mini game of the floor is lava
But making the player do the same S3 raids is very repetitive and would kinda loses more new players than anything
Also Karok able to clash as much as he wanted!!!! Why nerf such an important aspect of an character! Following this idea how about making Vella and Fiona have a cool down on their counter attacks? Kai's sp drain every time he shoots normal stuff (Yes this did kinda happen when he first came out) . Give Lann a puke gauge so he can spin so much before dying. Scythe Evie has a cool down on their blink and no more double blink. Staff Evie should have fewer healing spells since we have a Slyas, and increase the cool down to 40 mins for revive since it is only max 3 other ppl in battle. Hurk's blockade skill should be an active skill woth 500 sp and 5 min cool down. Lynns marks should go away after 5 secs if not used. Reduce Arisha boobs so she is less distracting
Because every other holding skill has a 20 minutes cooldown, and it only makes sense for Clash to be the same
So my guess bow Kai is next because of prey drive? Or Evie frozen ice attacks? Chain Blade Vella choke a b1tch move ( When she has cold hearted status up and uses the frost bite, does not do break but holds them for a while). But what about the Delia x Karok combo? Delia has hard enough time getting her Ult off i find.