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Why do people join raids with lower than 1300 AD?

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  • MadcobraMadcobra
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    Ikarsu wrote: »
    Sir_Render wrote: »


    THIS IS WHY TEAMATES NEED TO START REVIVING EACH OTHER!

    per GG usage, NX becomes 30 cents richer. per mega asking for GF, NX becomes 5 cents richer. Lets think about that for a second. :*

    I think he meant more like party feathers .
  • AbaddanAbaddan
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    edited December 19, 2017
    Does it really matter if you have a carry in the party? I mean i'd take a person with ass gear that actually throws and can get hits on dullahan vs a really good gear char that just sits there and keeps hitting dullahan even when the spirit is on them and brings it to dulla. Just so they can not throw bombs and do it again.
  • Question2Question2
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    Ikarsu wrote: »
    Question2 wrote: »

    It actually matters a lot. Two players who know the raid, one player has 500 more AD, the player with 500 more AD will do masively more damage. Thats how the game works. 1 AD = 6.25 ATT which ignores the attack cap. That is massive. It's why people spend 500+m on a set of +12 armor instead of settling for +10.

    People with 1300 AD as it is basically do 10-15% damage to the boss as it is in a well geared party even if they play very well. Most people play average or worse. Its not uncommon for two players combined to do 80-90% of the damage.

    Someone with very low AD (500 or less) is going to do 5% or less.

    Would someone provide a source of this claim far as the AD att conversion that bypasses the limit...

    Secondly, the game is already unbalanced as it is because some characters benefiting more with a +15 when compared to others. Take for instance spear lann and his "spin 2 win" mechanic, along with miri's blocking and attacking at the same time wheel attacks. The point is I'm just basically tired of this whole dps race that got introduced since 2012 and has torn apart the community since.

    In a nutshell: if you find incompetent group members, just trick the game into thinking you crashed when they all die and see who has the last laugh... sometimes people need a taste of their own medicine.

    PS: you can't do damage anyway if you're dead. Case en point you can spend over 5 billion to max out gear and still get instantly killed due to boss mechanics. *drinks wine* I've seen too many of these cases to count, including buggy abomination runs.

    Cause posts like these regarding claims over something and a "certain stat" mattering to the whole game is the sole reason why I went into the 5 month hiatus in the first place.


    AD has always bypassed attack cap. Ask pretty much anyone ingame. Why else do you think people go nuts trying to make high enhanced gear? Just look at how much more damage you do with more AD on attack capped bosses.

    Wanting to do raids as quick as possible is partly because most players want to optimize...if you know that a certain DPS rotation will net you the most DPS, you use it. If you know that reaching attack cap will increase your damage, you do it. Its nothing strange and its what most people do in oh...pretty much any game ever.

    This isnt about people being elitist. Its about people delibeately undergearing themselves. Again, if people want to do that, they should do it on their own boat instead of assuming that everyone is fine with it.

  • Question2Question2
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    Abaddan wrote: »
    Does it really matter if you have a carry in the party? I mean i'd take a person with ass gear that actually throws and can get hits on dullahan vs a really good gear char that just sits there and keeps hitting dullahan even when the spirit is on them and brings it to dulla. Just so they can not throw bombs and do it again.

    It boils down to :

    - People deliberately undergearing themselves to be less effective

    -Not even on their own boat

    -Without bothering to ask the rest of the party if this is OK

    Its basic etiquette...common sense really...that in a party you work together as a team to take down the boss as efficiently as possible. If everyone is undergearing themselves and expecting the rest to carry them, who is going to be the carry? Its like, when you were in school and doing group projects, do you just slack off because "someone else will carry this project anyway"?

    All you have to do is wear the free +10 gear by right clicking it. Nobody is asking you to spend $100 on runes or anything. I can't believe i have to actually explain this. Its like trying to explain to a teenager why they should turn the lights off when they are the last person to leave ther oom instead of expecting someone else to do it for them.
  • AtherionAtherion
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    Ad was changed recently to scale with your effective attack over boss defense around the time of rise. So assuming you are only 5k attack over the boss defense, each point of ad will only offer you around 3pts of attack rather than 6 at attack cap.

    This was done so the people who dropped billions to max out attack limit in Kr wouldn't feel shafted since the gains of increasing ad was so much more cost effective when it came to increasing power.

    Not to say that ad isn't important or overpowered, but if you lack the attack to fully utilize it, there is still a department for you to work on.
    KappaMonmisakamisaka
  • ArishanteArishante
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    Unbelievable that people still check other players' gear in these times, when there are already restrictions put in by the game itself for s3. If you're really that ad conscious put in a restriction in your boat titles and be done with it, others do it and nobody laughs at their elitism (or do they?).

    Raids are already completed too fast if one or two players are strong, they only get derailed when team play sucks.
    SaintGuinnessSir_RenderCloakshire
  • IkarsuIkarsu
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    Arishante wrote: »
    Unbelievable that people still check other players' gear in these times, when there are already restrictions put in by the game itself for s3. If you're really that ad conscious put in a restriction in your boat titles and be done with it, others do it and nobody laughs at their elitism (or do they?).

    Raids are already completed too fast if one or two players are strong, they only get derailed when team play sucks.

    One of the main reasons why I go lone wolf for donegal farming.
    Sir_Render
  • HallyHally
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    Chars who claimed the level up rewards before 90 gear box existed, and were not active during the time limited 90 gear box were given out do not have access to free gear. 5 of my 11 chars on my acc are in that sorry state.
    ArishanteRobeguy
  • SatsueSatsue
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    edited December 20, 2017
    I'm lost, is AD THAT easy now? I definitely never got that much AD, and certainly never from armor, and even so, all I ever had was a +11 90 scythe only.
  • SaintGuinnessSaintGuinness
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    Ikarsu wrote: »
    Question2 wrote: »

    It actually matters a lot. Two players who know the raid, one player has 500 more AD, the player with 500 more AD will do masively more damage. Thats how the game works. 1 AD = 6.25 ATT which ignores the attack cap. That is massive. It's why people spend 500+m on a set of +12 armor instead of settling for +10.

    People with 1300 AD as it is basically do 10-15% damage to the boss as it is in a well geared party even if they play very well. Most people play average or worse. Its not uncommon for two players combined to do 80-90% of the damage.

    Someone with very low AD (500 or less) is going to do 5% or less.

    Would someone provide a source of this claim far as the AD att conversion that bypasses the limit...

    Secondly, the game is already unbalanced as it is because some characters benefiting more with a +15 when compared to others. Take for instance spear lann and his "spin 2 win" mechanic, along with miri's blocking and attacking at the same time wheel attacks. The point is I'm just basically tired of this whole dps race that got introduced since 2012 and has torn apart the community since.

    In a nutshell: if you find incompetent group members, just trick the game into thinking you crashed when they all die and see who has the last laugh... sometimes people need a taste of their own medicine.

    PS: you can't do damage anyway if you're dead. Case en point you can spend over 5 billion to max out gear and still get instantly killed due to boss mechanics. *drinks wine* I've seen too many of these cases to count, including buggy abomination runs.

    Cause posts like these regarding claims over something and a "certain stat" mattering to the whole game is the sole reason why I went into the 5 month hiatus in the first place.


    I agree. Ever since they introduced DPS, the camaraderie in this game went off a cliff. I'm okay with doing 60-70% of the damage if my teammates played well enough to not die or didn't mess up (such as triggering the gate too early in Braha) . I honestly don't check stats anymore. If you clear the QB requirements then I really don't see the problem here. I miss the days when skill mattered more than gear but everything is about DPS now.... Sad!
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    edited December 20, 2017
    To answer the OP's question. @Question2

    While I don't do this on my Lann due to him being decently geared out in OJ gear, I do intentionally gear down to the Armageddon set on my Hurk.

    Why?
    It's because I look god-awful in the free braha set & I want to fight wearing something that I think looks good. Granted it's not a base Armageddon set; it is all at least +7, fully Enchanted, and I'm using a +12 Armageddon Greatsword.

    I know I'm not doing as much damage as I could be if I wore the free set, but that's my choice to make. I've only ever had one person ask me why I wasn't wearing the free set, and after I explained my stance, they let me stay. While I wasn't doing as much damage as I could have done, I was providing support to the party in the form of consistent deflections. And realistically speaking, had I switched to the free set, how much time would that have saved? Probably not enough to even matter, but I'm not one to crunch out the damage formula so that's just a guess.

    If it's such an issue to you, then you should just check everyone that joins your boats and if you don't like it, you've got every right to kick them just like they have every right to join while wearing what they want. Problem solved.
    Order5
  • Order5Order5
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    edited December 20, 2017
    Question2 wrote: »
    Wanting to do raids as quick as possible is partly because most players want to optimize...if you know that a certain DPS rotation will net you the most DPS, you use it. If you know that reaching attack cap will increase your damage, you do it. Its nothing strange and its what most people do in oh...pretty much any game ever.

    This isnt about people being elitist. Its about people delibeately undergearing themselves. Again, if people want to do that, they should do it on their own boat instead of assuming that everyone is fine with it.

    It is about being an elitist. The game gives you 60 minutes to kill the boss, and each member of a 4-man party can only be expected to take out 25% of the boss' HP. Sure, people who want to optimize and have the highest DPS possible are trying to commit every fiber of their being to ensure the raid succeeds, but some people want to relax and play this game for fun.

    As mentioned, people leave or give you hostile reactions when you ask them to change to a specific set of armor, and it is likely because they feel you are making demands of them. Naturally, you don't like that they aren't putting in every effort to ensure the raid succeeds or in as little time as possible, and they probably don't like giving you that amount of effort. Understandable disagreement that requires no drama, so they leave peacefully or cause a scene because they can't help themselves to a bit of drama.
  • ikeviikevi
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    edited December 20, 2017
    Order5 wrote: »
    As mentioned, people leave or give you hostile reactions when you ask them to change to a specific set of armor, and it is likely because they feel you are making demands of them. Naturally, you don't like that they aren't putting in every effort to ensure the raid succeeds or in as little time as possible, and they probably don't like giving you that amount of effort. Understandable disagreement that requires no drama, so they leave peacefully or cause a scene because they can't help themselves to a bit of drama.

    Over the years I have had folks demand some really funny gearing for me. The best was back when I would use a build with explosive +12 Noblesse Twin spears on Kraken (Before we got all the extra att buffs, soap/bracelets, etc.) People would QQ and demand I swap gear even though with "explosive" I would hit crit/bal cap + manage to hit att cap. (At that time that build would beat out +15 lv 70 spears if we both didn't trans.)

    Except for neam, the only time I will notice folks are wearing crud gear is if they die a lot. And that really is only on Dullahan.

    I am much more likely to get annoyed if someone isn't willing to pull ghost agro etc. (Which oddly seems to be happening more and more often.)

    As for wearing less than 1300 add damage. I likely do on some of my alts. Back when we had those free scroll events I put some deadlies on lv 80 gear, and haven't bothered to +10 most of them. So it is a toss up between the 130 add damage or the 3 crit. Either build isn't going to be a DPS king, so what does it really matter what one someone wears as long as folks are having fun?
  • Question2Question2
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    Atherion wrote: »
    Ad was changed recently to scale with your effective attack over boss defense around the time of rise. So assuming you are only 5k attack over the boss defense, each point of ad will only offer you around 3pts of attack rather than 6 at attack cap.

    This was done so the people who dropped billions to max out attack limit in Kr wouldn't feel shafted since the gains of increasing ad was so much more cost effective when it came to increasing power.

    Not to say that ad isn't important or overpowered, but if you lack the attack to fully utilize it, there is still a department for you to work on.

    Are you sure they changed AD and not ALR? If they changed AD the way you said, then a player with 28k and 2k AD would deal way more damage per hit in muir compared to regina, which is not the case.

    ALR definately works on some kind of scale though. I see a ~25% damage increase with the 1800 ALR in second trans vs 0 ALR.
  • Question2Question2
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    Hally wrote: »
    Chars who claimed the level up rewards before 90 gear box existed, and were not active during the time limited 90 gear box were given out do not have access to free gear. 5 of my 11 chars on my acc are in that sorry state.

    File a ticket and get a GM to fix it.
  • Question2Question2
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    Arishante wrote: »
    Unbelievable that people still check other players' gear in these times, when there are already restrictions put in by the game itself for s3. If you're really that ad conscious put in a restriction in your boat titles and be done with it, others do it and nobody laughs at their elitism (or do they?).

    Raids are already completed too fast if one or two players are strong, they only get derailed when team play sucks.

    Unbelivable that a game literally gives you free gear and you undergear yourself to make the raid take longer for everyone else because "those other guys can carry me anyway".
  • Question2Question2
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    Cloakshire wrote: »
    While I wasn't doing as much damage as I could have done

    I guess you dont mind if everyone else on the boat choses to do less damage than they could have done as well.

    If you want to undergear yourself, do it on your own boat.
  • Question2Question2
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    Order5 wrote: »

    It is about being an elitist..

    No, being an elitist is when you demand that people have high stats/skill level that a reasonable person would not have, e.g. demanding that everyone has 5k AD.

    It is not unreasonable to expect that people should wear the best gear they have for end game content.
  • Question2Question2
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    ikevi wrote: »
    Order5 wrote: »
    As mentioned, people leave or give you hostile reactions when you ask them to change to a specific set of armor, and it is likely because they feel you are making demands of them. Naturally, you don't like that they aren't putting in every effort to ensure the raid succeeds or in as little time as possible, and they probably don't like giving you that amount of effort. Understandable disagreement that requires no drama, so they leave peacefully or cause a scene because they can't help themselves to a bit of drama.

    Over the years I have had folks demand some really funny gearing for me. The best was back when I would use a build with explosive +12 Noblesse Twin spears on Kraken (Before we got all the extra att buffs, soap/bracelets, etc.) People would QQ and demand I swap gear even though with "explosive" I would hit crit/bal cap + manage to hit att cap. (At that time that build would beat out +15 lv 70 spears if we both didn't trans.)

    Except for neam, the only time I will notice folks are wearing crud gear is if they die a lot. And that really is only on Dullahan.

    I am much more likely to get annoyed if someone isn't willing to pull ghost agro etc. (Which oddly seems to be happening more and more often.)

    As for wearing less than 1300 add damage. I likely do on some of my alts. Back when we had those free scroll events I put some deadlies on lv 80 gear, and haven't bothered to +10 most of them. So it is a toss up between the 130 add damage or the 3 crit. Either build isn't going to be a DPS king, so what does it really matter what one someone wears as long as folks are having fun?

    If everyone else is fine with it, obviously, there is no issue.

    But why do you assume everyone else is fine with it without asking?
  • HallyHally
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    Question2 wrote: »
    Hally wrote: »
    Chars who claimed the level up rewards before 90 gear box existed, and were not active during the time limited 90 gear box were given out do not have access to free gear. 5 of my 11 chars on my acc are in that sorry state.

    File a ticket and get a GM to fix it.

    Why would a GM fix that? It wasn't a bug 0.0