[NEW MERCENARIES] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.

Regarding the description of Goibhniu's stone

ISnatchMoneyISnatchMoney
Vindictus Rep: 1,995
Posts: 179
Member
edited December 8, 2017 in General Discussion
Currently it's stated "Increases enhancement success rate by 10%".

If this is true, then if the enhancement success rate for +13 is 20%, with this goib. stone it will be 30% enhancement success rate? I have heard many people reply saying it's 10% of* the rate. If that was the case, there would be 'of' in the description but I do not see that, 'of'.

Please read: Increases by 10% can only* state +10%.

Even so, I would like confirmation from the only the Nexon staff regarding this decription.

Pic of the CURRENT *description/goib. below,
GOIB_stone1011111.png

==

Pic of the previous description below,
old_gob.PNG


ZollenAriaGodspell
  1. Goib stone33 votes
    1. Increased enhancement success rate by 10% :(+13 with goib , 20% +10% =30%?)??
       12% (4 votes)
    2. +rate of enhancement by 10%? (because there is clearly OF, in this description) (+13 20% +2% = 22%)?
       52% (17 votes)
    3. I got triggered by reading this
       12% (4 votes)
    4. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
       24% (8 votes)

Comments

  • AbaddanAbaddan
    Vindictus Rep: 2,320
    Posts: 195
    Member
    edited December 8, 2017
    10% of the success rate my dewd. So if the it's 20% from 12 to +13 it's a total of 22% I almost believe these don't do a dang thing anyway tbh.
  • ISnatchMoneyISnatchMoney
    Vindictus Rep: 1,995
    Posts: 179
    Member
    Abaddan wrote: »
    10% of the success rate my dewd. So if the it's 20% from 12 to +13 it's a total of 22% I almost believe these don't do a dang thing anyway tbh.

    The purpose of this thread is just for clarification purposes, hopefully a staff member can answer, or possible GM.
  • Order5Order5
    Vindictus Rep: 5,900
    Posts: 935
    Member
    edited December 8, 2017
    It says based on enhancement level. If it was a flat 10%, then it would simply add 10% regardless.
    EDIT:
    Oh, that was the previous description.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
    Vindictus Rep: 8,530
    Posts: 1,320
    Member
    Unless it's changed from before then it's 10% of the current rate, so 22% total on 20 as mentioned above.
    ISnatchMoney
  • ISnatchMoneyISnatchMoney
    Vindictus Rep: 1,995
    Posts: 179
    Member
    Unless it's changed from before then it's 10% of the current rate, so 22% total on 20 as mentioned above.

    please show me where it's 'of the current rate', have you read this forum post even?
    Zollen
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
    Vindictus Rep: 8,530
    Posts: 1,320
    Member
    There's been nothing from KR showing it changed there, and odds are that a change that big they would have mentioned here if they made it. As I said, unless it's changed it's 10% of current. This wouldn't be the first item that doesn't delineate every detail as precisely as it should, just no reason to thing we would see that big of a boost.
  • TamagoTamago
    Vindictus Rep: 5,460
    Posts: 733
    Member
    edited December 8, 2017
    It's multiplicative, not additive. It's always been that way. The wording's actually correct. "Increases by 10%" does not mean +10% only. 22% is 20% increased by 10% as well. Just look at the percent change formula.

    Percent change = [(V1 - V0) / V0] x 100
    = [(22 - 20) / 20] x 100
    = (2 / 20) x 100
    = 0.1 x 100
    = 10% increase
    => increased by 10%

    If you need confirmation that it is indeed multiplicative, that was on old forums as well as EU forums.

    Here's one post from EU: https://forum.nexoneu.com/showthread.php?1434147-Update-Depot-Enhancement-Supplies!-Goibhniu-s-stones-and-more

    NA announcement description: "Increases the probability of a successful Enhancement by 10% of the current success rate
    For example, if odds of success are 50%, using a Goibhniu's Enhancement Stone will increase the odds to 55%"
    http://vindictus.nexon.net/news/10932/urban-punk-and-angel-sets

    There were others, but I'm not going to look for them.
    ISnatchMoneyKara
  • MisterWhiskersMisterWhiskers
    Vindictus Rep: 2,615
    Posts: 348
    Member
    would be way too broken to just add a flat 10% succes chance to your enhance
  • ISnatchMoneyISnatchMoney
    Vindictus Rep: 1,995
    Posts: 179
    Member
    edited December 8, 2017
    Mainichi wrote: »
    It's multiplicative, not additive. It's always been that way. The wording's actually correct. "Increases by 10%" does not mean +10% only. 22% is 20% increased by 10% as well. Just look at the percent change formula.

    Percent change = [(V1 - V0) / V0] x 100
    = [(22 - 20) / 20] x 100
    = (2 / 20) x 100
    = 0.1 x 100
    = 10% increase
    => increased by 10%

    If you need confirmation that it is indeed multiplicative, that was on old forums as well as EU forums.

    Here's one post from EU: https://forum.nexoneu.com/showthread.php?1434147-Update-Depot-Enhancement-Supplies!-Goibhniu-s-stones-and-more

    NA announcement description: "Increases the probability of a successful Enhancement by 10% of the current success rate
    For example, if odds of success are 50%, using a Goibhniu's Enhancement Stone will increase the odds to 55%"
    http://vindictus.nexon.net/news/10932/urban-punk-and-angel-sets

    There were others, but I'm not going to look for them.

    I understand what you're trying to say, but that post is from 2015, two years ago. Ever since we have gotten this new enhancement system (Lvl 1-20.), the goib stone has been updated with a newer description.

    However the link to the 50 to 55% would be the rate of*- but that's last year.
    The link from 2016 you showed - it's multiplicative. However I want to know the current status for the goib. stone due to a newer description. (since past +15 is achievable) [Yes i know you can't use goibs. from +15 to +16 and beyond]

    That's also why I chose to post the previous and current picture of the goib. stone.. Is it still multiplicative or now additive success enhancement rate?
    The reason for this post is for that confirmation only.
  • TamagoTamago
    Vindictus Rep: 5,460
    Posts: 733
    Member
    edited December 8, 2017
    Mainichi wrote: »
    It's multiplicative, not additive. It's always been that way. The wording's actually correct. "Increases by 10%" does not mean +10% only. 22% is 20% increased by 10% as well. Just look at the percent change formula.

    Percent change = [(V1 - V0) / V0] x 100
    = [(22 - 20) / 20] x 100
    = (2 / 20) x 100
    = 0.1 x 100
    = 10% increase
    => increased by 10%

    If you need confirmation that it is indeed multiplicative, that was on old forums as well as EU forums.

    Here's one post from EU: https://forum.nexoneu.com/showthread.php?1434147-Update-Depot-Enhancement-Supplies!-Goibhniu-s-stones-and-more

    NA announcement description: "Increases the probability of a successful Enhancement by 10% of the current success rate
    For example, if odds of success are 50%, using a Goibhniu's Enhancement Stone will increase the odds to 55%"
    http://vindictus.nexon.net/news/10932/urban-punk-and-angel-sets

    There were others, but I'm not going to look for them.

    I understand what you're trying to say, but that post is from 2015, two years ago. Ever since we have gotten this new enhancement system (Lvl 1-20.), the goib stone has been updated with a newer description.

    However the link to the 50 to 55% would be the rate of*- but that's last year.
    The link from 2016 you showed - it's multiplicative. However I want to know the current status for the goib. stone due to a newer description. (since past +15 is achievable) [Yes i know you can't use goibs. from +15 to +16 and beyond]

    That's also why I chose to post the previous and current picture of the goib. stone.. Is it still multiplicative or now additive success enhancement rate?
    The reason for this post is for that confirmation only.

    The description is still the same though. The new one just has some lines saying the new restriction and to go to Ferghus.
    You're being too nitpicky with by vs of. Increasing the rate by 10% doesn't mean it's only additive. That can also mean it's multiplicative, which it was and most likely still is. If you removed the second part, it'd still mean the same thing. If you were to describe percent change, you would still say it's a 10% increase/ it's increased by 10%.

    It's highly unlikely they'd change it to be additive. Either way, your best bet is to ask GM's via ticket.
  • ThyHippoThyHippo
    Vindictus Rep: 1,150
    Posts: 21
    Member
    Currently it's stated "Increases enhancement success rate by 10%".

    If this is true, then if the enhancement success rate for +13 is 20%, with this goib. stone it will be 30% enhancement success rate? I have heard many people reply saying it's 10% of* the rate. If that was the case, there would be 'of' in the description but I do not see that, 'of'.

    Please read: Increases by 10% can only* state +10%.

    Even so, I would like confirmation from the only the Nexon staff regarding this decription.

    Pic of the CURRENT *description/goib. below,
    GOIB_stone1011111.png

    ==

    Pic of the previous description below,
    old_gob.PNG


    Think about it though, its the same thing with crit. even tho it says "+3%" that still just means 3 crit. so why wouldnt it be the same case with the Gobu stone?? if not they really need to change the system and CLEARLY explain this. I also agree with most of the comments of this damn stone doesnt work, feels like it has never worked ever.
  • ISnatchMoneyISnatchMoney
    Vindictus Rep: 1,995
    Posts: 179
    Member
    ThyHippo wrote: »
    Currently it's stated "Increases enhancement success rate by 10%".

    If this is true, then if the enhancement success rate for +13 is 20%, with this goib. stone it will be 30% enhancement success rate? I have heard many people reply saying it's 10% of* the rate. If that was the case, there would be 'of' in the description but I do not see that, 'of'.

    Please read: Increases by 10% can only* state +10%.

    Even so, I would like confirmation from the only the Nexon staff regarding this decription.

    Pic of the CURRENT *description/goib. below,
    GOIB_stone1011111.png

    ==

    Pic of the previous description below,
    old_gob.PNG


    Think about it though, its the same thing with crit. even tho it says "+3%" that still just means 3 crit. so why wouldnt it be the same case with the Gobu stone?? if not they really need to change the system and CLEARLY explain this. I also agree with most of the comments of this damn stone doesnt work, feels like it has never worked ever.

    Critical value is completely different than enhancement success rates, as critical values determine and may vary. Critical is affected by your enemy's crit resistance aswell, and other characters have a higher crit cap than others. You cannot relate to this, I don't see the similarities between the two.
  • RobertLiviaRobertLivia
    Vindictus Rep: 2,905
    Posts: 187
    Member
    edited December 8, 2017
    What I don't understand is why we do not have an enhance system similar to the enchant system, in which the clear percentages (%) are shown.

    Why can't they just display the success rate when you enhance an item?
    ISnatchMoneyXXlockdownXXZollenPhoebeHalliwel
  • SirRFISirRFI
    Vindictus Rep: 7,360
    Posts: 988
    Member
    edited December 10, 2017
    SirRFI wrote: »
    9fyO2Ln.png Goibhniu's Enhancement Stone
    This stone, named after the legendary blacksmith Goibhniu, can be used to enhance weapons or equipment. Some rumors claim that this stone is the origin of all enhancement power and came from his body.
    Increases success rate by 10% based on the equipment Enhancement Level.
    This stone, named after the legendary blacksmith Goibhniu, can be used to enhance weapons or equipment. Some rumors claim that this stone is the origin of all enhancement power and came from his body.

    Increases enhancement success rate by 3% if used as enhancement material.
    Can be used as enhancement material in place of existing Enhancement Stones (Enhancement Stone, Advanced Enhancement Stone, Epic Enhancement Stone, Exquisite Enhancement Stone, and Paradise Enhancement Stone).

    Ferghus can enhance your items.
    Functionality: Replaces enhancement stones in the process - only 1 stone is used instead. Multiplies enhancement success chance by 110%. Example: 0.33*1.1=0.363 (33% → 36,3%)
    Source: http://forums.vindictus.nexon.net/discussion/10979/
    I recall Ehgess confirming this. Other than that, actual +10% would be probably too strong.


    Why can't they just display the success rate when you enhance an item?
    Because that would prevent some people from trying, I guess? I was surprised they didn't rework this interface, like they did for enchanting.
  • TheamerisTheameris
    Vindictus Rep: 400
    Posts: 2
    Member
    Alright guys, so, i'm bringing this issue back to surface with a certain answer this time. I have contacted a GM and now the answer is that Goibhniu still gives 10% moar chances for success, based on existing percentage, and not 10% flat (even if chances to enhance beyond +12 have dropped moar than 10% post-RISE, plus the description of the item has been changed).
    Check this link that shows enhancement rates for weapon and armor pre and post-RISE:
    https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/.eJwVy8ENwyAMAMBdGAAHUwLOv_-qGyCDSqQGUOy8qu5e9f73Mdf5NptpqlM2AC7dll14nCXPaXkckFUzt6N2FUCPN0rkQkQiigkDeLdSxGWlhbxzPoUE995y5_ovjyH63KXa2V_m-wOmVSKy.2hpAO8VC2I9CvIBdBTkSLV3ZM6Y

    That means that for a weapon that has 20% chance to reach +13, chance goes to 22% with goibhniu stone.

    PS.: Btw, this link about enhancement was accurate pre-RISE, not anymore:
    http://forums.vindictus.nexon.net/discussion/10979/enhancement
  • SirRFISirRFI
    Vindictus Rep: 7,360
    Posts: 988
    Member
    Theameris wrote: »
    PS.: Btw, this link about enhancement was accurate pre-RISE, not anymore:
    http://forums.vindictus.nexon.net/discussion/10979/enhancement
    The new rates were taken from Rise test server, and according to DOL (game director) - were subject to change. After all these months it's safe to say they didn't change since that test server, resulting in worse success chances at high enhancement rank. Guess I should update this at some point.
  • TheamerisTheameris
    Vindictus Rep: 400
    Posts: 2
    Member
    Your thread is very well organised, so I guess updating the rates, until we have news about them changing, is a good idea. +best
    Maybe we should request that rates have to be risen up since they were subject to change anyway, chances to reach +13/14/15 are unfairly scarce now.