[NEW MERCENARIES] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.

What... happened?

Comments

  • EnigmaTaroEnigmaTaro
    Vindictus Rep: 3,815
    Posts: 441
    Member
    They took out easy mode because there used to be players asking help to do s1, s2 story even when easy mode existed.
    They refused to do easy mode to make them look bad, and they wanted to do hard mode for extra EXPs.

    Jokes on them though, waiting 1 hours for 8 man boat when the time could've been spent grinding on other battle quests instead.


    As for choices, they do make hero mode available, only to lv90s+ though.
  • ikeviikevi
    Vindictus Rep: 3,670
    Posts: 748
    Member
    EnigmaTaro wrote: »
    As for choices, they do make hero mode available, only to lv90s+ though.

    Course since AD is broken... hero modes to well geared (read +15 folks) just seems like the old hard mode.
  • ElleaseEllease
    Vindictus Rep: 1,625
    Posts: 154
    Member
    Rezi wrote: »
    First of all, AoD isn't a Boss. It's a Raid Boss that got nerfed ... it's easy to solo.
    Yes, you do get +8 weapons from questing. You also get almost full sets just from one run through a chapter that are high quality with good enchants.
    Having your AP capped means nothing. It would be better to clarify my one-shot as one-combo since I see a combo equal to a shot.
    RqaLXFU.png?1

    Harma is a normal boss. I crit on Execute, and look, I didn't have enough damage to one-shot him. Notice my stats? This means new players,
    who don't have their skills maxed, whose critical strikes do 130% damage and likely won't crit anyway, and don't do 5 times the damage of their peers through attack limit release and additional damage, aren't one-shotting any bosses. And as it being soloable, again, I was asked by a new player because they couldn't complete it on their own. New players, not vets that leveled a character in pre-RISE Vindictus, often do find the content challenging and hit walls that most vets wouldn't assist them through (in a timely fashion).

    When I took those characters through the story (Karok and Evie as reference), I don't recall getting anything above +5 until around an Ivory weapon (which was the exception, not the rule). I +8'd my armor for damage since I was going to keep it for story titles, I didn't get armor, especially decently enchanted, at +8 at any point of the questing nor story to save me the trouble. My AP-Capped Karok (whom had 30k+ spare AP until I hit about level 40) averaged 20-30 seconds to kill most bosses with full +8 gear and AP cap. For Evie, I used a +12 Champion Scythe (which is a level 70 weapon way more powerful than anything you'd have by questing at-level) because the character was level 80, AP Capped (you know that means your skills are maxed for your level, right?) and I still wasn't able to one-shot on her for the level 40-60 content that I quested her through. I'm pretty sure my skill level isn't the reason I can't end these battles faster than players getting by with quest gear and minimal AP.
    Rezi wrote: »
    The point of a market...
    Additionally, saying that it's easier for players to craft because resources are cheap in the market is just a cover-up for the fact that mats are now even harder to get from mobs ... which is why unique drops were good money-makers for normal players at any level).
    And I don't know what you mean about dismantling equipment to get more resources, because 1) that doesn't result in economic contribution at all and 2) it doesn't work for some talents because it's bugged.

    The market now has materials that are useful for people of-level as well as materials that are useful for endgamers. Do you remember pre-RISE where you could search under the tab "Long Hammer" and there would be literally nothing below blue quality 90 weapons? At least now there are equipment at a variety of levels because they're actually obtainable and then thrown up on the market for being valuable when they've surpassed their use. Mats were only expensive because they were too uncommon for the amount you'd need to craft a single item (Runes of Dominion, Blood Lord Blood, etc). You didn't have to do anything specific to get these mats but farm certain bosses, the bot argument could be used here too. The only mat that had an expensive rate that only dropped by breakoffs was the Goliath Back Leg Tendon. Newbies didn't even focus breakoffs, so their contribution to the market was null (only title farmers were creating the supply). Finally, the dismantling is called an item sink, otherwise there would be a worthless supply of equipment due to its overabundance. The materials created through dismantling are useful from 60 onwards. The gear is used by players at that level. Also, what talent is bugged that prevents you from dismantling?
    Rezi wrote: »
    Wrong, wrong, wrong. Bosses did get more difficult per player, but raid bosses were nearly impossible to solo. The remaining raids still are difficult, to an extent. All that happened now is raid bosses got turned into normal dungeon bosses that have been nerfed to be solo-friendly because, again, player count no longer influences difficulty. Raids turned into dungeons are now easier to solo than before and require even less thinking.

    How am I wrong? Boss HP scaled for the first four people in the run and then remained the same if there were more than that. They got nerfed because they were designed for a party of people at that quest level, but as the game progressed newbies got stuck at bosses they weren't designed to solo. Endgamers didn't generally go to the boards and look for players stuck at raids pre-60 because they gave no seals, nor did they join players hosting the 60 raids and 70-79 Malina raids because the seal itself wasn't worth the wait nor time for the battle to fill. Vets could quickly solo them or organize groups to farm seals, and newbies got stuck.
    Rezi wrote: »
    Grinding is what makes endgame boring because it's literally the only endgame that exists. For old seal shop, there was atleast some incentive to play multiple content that made things less mundane. It also made non-whales somewhat relevant since it required actual playtime rather than buying items to make upgrading equipment easier than it's ever been, to the point that only whales will ever get to +19 and +20.
    Just like how right now there is Season 3 raids, Niflheim (a step above casual), Ein Lacher (solo oriented farming), Abyssal Arena (a gauntlet-based farming method), Special Battles (aimed at endgamer stats), Royal Army Raids (for people who like big parties) and Sea of Reflection (the anti-casual battle)? What whale is using the seal shop right now to get their gear, or what benefit does a whale get from the seal shop anyway? How did the old seal shop let grinders surpass the whales before?
    Rezi wrote: »
    Okay, first, there already is one. There's literally an AP shop in the game.
    Second, you're suggesting making endgame even easier than it already is and completely removing all incentive to acquire stronger equipment because everyone will play gear-independent raids if available.
    Third, says the person who only cares about endgame but wants a mode that will remove all challenge from endgame. What.
    I said a meaningful AP dump. I clean out the AP shop every week and still accumulate spare AP. I have nothing to spend said AP on, hence there is no dump for it like there was in the past (I used to double-boom weapons for progression and profit). Something to spend AP on for the grinders is needed to be reintroduced to the game.

    Ein Lacher stats don't make endgame even easier. Ein Lacher strips a character of their attack limit release and additional damage with a standardized boss HP. The bosses also chunk you for a big percentage of your HP, because they do roughly fixed percentage health. I said add it as an option, not remove other options. Some players would like to see how they do in a party with gearing taken out of the equation. Such a mode could be done for either a change of pace, "balanced" challenges, or any different reward the developers could choose to give players who completed raids with this option. No endgamer in their right mind is going to say "you know what, I didn't upgrade my gear for combat effectiveness, I'm only going to run Ein Lacher battles from now on but continue upgrading my gear anyway".

    Again, these are OPTIONS that need to be added. The game is filled with casuals, addicts, skilled and unskilled players, treasure and achievement hunters, etc. Ein Lacher and Neamhain provided meaningful challenge to the skilled population of the game in their own ways and were largely avoided by casuals. However, once the achievement is complete (70 battles in Ein Lacher and 100 clears for Neamhain), the incentives are lost. More content like this needs to be regularly added, possibly with a restructuring of the current options so that further clears always maintain value for this segment of the population. For example, they could add other abilities to Neamhain after you grind Full Force that don't directly contribute to power creep instead of a neverended grind of Full Force rank X.
  • NovuNovu
    Vindictus Rep: 1,050
    Posts: 30
    Member
    Too much reading in this thread. A picture is worth ten thousand words.

    2LNyx4S.jpg
  • ReziRezi
    Vindictus Rep: 2,585
    Posts: 436
    Member
    edited September 2, 2017
    Novu, I'm confused.... Does Gaming Skill get easier the higher the line goes or harder? It doesn't specify, but normally one would think a taller line means harder.

    ---

    @Ellease

    Look, when I go up against bosses with x5 HP Pools, and I'm playing just with common boss or mob dropped bastard swords, the rest of me completely nude which means I take more damage and need more HP pots but get no additional stats, a single LLLRR combo takes out atleast 2 bars at same level content; so for the vast majority of bosses that have 1 or 2 HP Pools now, it's about a one-combo on every single one of them; it's actually harder to get mobs simply because there's more of them and it's harder to aim the second R when most of my quarry is dead (which means I have to chase the remaining ones around).

    I don't know what equips you're seeing in the market because the very, very few I see for early or mid game never get bought because the game content never forces players to use anything better than mob drops (which are already enhanced and enchanted to be superior to player crafts).

    The problem with players that couldn't solo before was that, correct, there was no reward for helping them. A simple fix would have been to give higher level players rewards for helping them, rather than nerfing almost the entire game.

    I never said the seal shop gave grinders priority over whales. I said it evened them out. Right now, whales are guaranteed to get drops from raids due to overwhelming power being factored into the DPS drop system, so if you have a normal player in the party that fights really hard but doesn't get just enough damage to get those drops because of the whales in the raid OP-ing all the DPS, you have a system where whales have priority over grinders, as all of that grinding means nothing if you're not rewarded for it. This wouldn't be a problem if failing to get that % gave you participation items instead that, over a long amount of time, would allow for something like old seal shop; but honestly they just need to fix the contribution system.

    I don't have a problem against EL; I just don't want it to become standard for future content.
  • ikeviikevi
    Vindictus Rep: 3,670
    Posts: 748
    Member
    edited September 2, 2017
    Ellease wrote: »
    Rezi wrote: »
    First of all, AoD isn't a Boss. It's a Raid Boss that got nerfed ... it's easy to solo.
    Yes, you do get +8 weapons from questing. You also get almost full sets just from one run through a chapter that are high quality with good enchants.
    Having your AP capped means nothing. It would be better to clarify my one-shot as one-combo since I see a combo equal to a shot.
    RqaLXFU.png?1

    Harma is a normal boss. I crit on Execute, and look, I didn't have enough damage to one-shot him. Notice my stats? This means new players,
    who don't have their skills maxed, whose critical strikes do 130% damage and likely won't crit anyway, and don't do 5 times the damage of their peers through attack limit release and additional damage, aren't one-shotting any bosses. And as it being soloable, again, I was asked by a new player because they couldn't complete it on their own. New players, not vets that leveled a character in pre-RISE Vindictus, often do find the content challenging and hit walls that most vets wouldn't assist them through (in a timely fashion).

    I agree most bosses aren't killed with one-shot on a new character... but when I bothered to lvl one of my alts post-rise it really showed how sadly easy this is. No skill is needed when you do:



    It is true that some skill is needed on S2 past raids using free easy gear... But they don't have those skills.

    Then top it off to S3 requirements where any new person doesn't have a clue how much pain they are going to be walking into. But any old person with decent gear is bored since it is easy mode.

    Now just doesn't work for everyone now.

    And you should know with 5k AD damage even end game is a joke... even in a pug with 3 bare min QB req equip folks and you in Dullahan it should be done in less than 8 min. If you bother to trans + have all folks that are good with the ghost it can be easily done in <5 min. Run in a boat that has similar geared to you and the trans and it can be done in ~2 min with 1 bombing phase. (Get really good and you can skip every phase...)

    The challenge isn't even the boss anymore, it is how far you can glitch it to skip entire phases of the battle.
    Rezi