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But I am hoping that we get lv 95 orange mats in the seal shop right away, so get that up to ~950 or so if you aren't already there. (Burn 50 on solid/smooth shards to craft good armor if they are a good roll, else break them down.)
This is the worst idea I think I've ever heard ever. So basically you want to keep endgame contents worthless as possible while simultaneously demotivating ppl from idk, actually running it? Kk.
The seal shop shouldn't be for endgame gear unless your goal is to continue to tank the economy even more than it already is? We need more items in the game that aren't worth 100k. There simply needs to be more ways of obtaining gold other than emptying your wallet on Airtight gachas.
This is the worst idea I think I've ever heard ever. So basically you want to keep endgame contents worthless as possible while simultaneously demotivating ppl from idk, actually running it? Kk.
The seal shop shouldn't be for endgame gear unless your goal is to continue to tank the economy even more than it already is? We need more items in the game that aren't worth 100k. There simply needs to be more ways of obtaining gold other than emptying your wallet on Airtight gachas.
Why? You do know that if they don't get put them into the seal shop it will cost ~400+ mil per shard again? Even when we had random orange shards/feathers it still cost ~250m for a weapon feather for nearly a year and ~50-80 for an armor.
The reason everything is so cheap right now is that the market is flooded compared to the demand... It didn't get flooded by having the items in the seal shop, it gets flooded by being around for how many years.
And if everything is cheap... you don't need to be at 4x gold cap to buy fully scrolled lv 95 gear.
Sure it stinks to be sitting on items that are worth bil to have them drop to be worth millions, but that is the way all nexon mmorpgs work. (Trust me I wish I had sold a lot of items days before the re-release, etc.)
And if everything is cheap... you don't need to be at 4x gold cap to buy fully scrolled lv 95 gear.
Except for not everything would be cheap. Pretty sure preenchanted armors would still cost a ton cuz preenchanted. Higher enhanced weapons?! Tradeable outfitters, etc. How do you suppose players, especially new players, who aren't prepared to throw tons of $$$ at the game on nx items will obtain any of those other than making it themselves if every drop they get from actually raiding is worth basically nothing?
Also, it's my opinion that endgame gear shouldn't be super cheap or easily obtainable. It's op, and for that reason it should be more of a challenge to get. Something to work towards, a reason to actually play the game.
My point is this game needs more options to obtain gold from drops and actually playing versus p2w. Having rare stuff, especially NEW content being put on the seal shop ASAP lowers the value. Who's going to buy a mat for 50-100m+ if they can just farm seals for like 2 weeks? No one.
Have you even been watching the prices of everything? 4 star lv 90s +12s go for 150m now... ES are going for a half or less of their previous worth. You can blow them up 5 times and get a 100% chance. (Or you can just buy the pieces.) (perm storage is <10m, +15s lv 80s are going for ~200m, judgment is <20m, immoral <12m, enth <5m)
And you are arguing 2 different sides.
1) you say key items that likely cost players NX are too expensive, so your argument is make lv 95 supper expensive so someone can sell that item and buy lv 90 gear (which anyone new is already given). And that you want the game to make it hard for folks to hit max gear.
2) But you also you say that people that haven't played 6+ years like most of the folks who are fully geared should still be handed out gold in another form to make it easier to get final gear.
I for one am fine with making the game require a lot of work to get good gear. (IT took me ~5 years to become OP, then it was easy to keep it up.)
But everything is cheaper so it is already much easier to gear up. Heck intermediate element stone sellers are crying, they are selling for <2m. Best case scenario, someone that has been around for say 6 months has manage to make ~100-500m and can now afford some great gear due to rise tanking prices.
They wont be able to afford lv 95 gear till it is buy-able via seal. (And don't expect to be able to get much hand me downs... most folks decided to boom their gear for that hope at +12 or better gear).
Finally when did you even start playing? The Regina orange mats were sealing for ~250 seals, you had RNG to hope for a weapon feather. And less than a year ago Regina weapon feathers were still going strong at 200m. It has only tanked after last summer.
New content should not be in seal shop until there is better or has become common in player equipment.
Just like 80
Just like 90
Putting 95 stuff in seal shop makes it far too easy, would be nice, but end game needs to take at least some time to get. If it were to go in seal shop, people would just save up seals now and then have full 95 armor the first day[after running raid to unlock obviously and it's just an example :c!]
New stuff being rare is a place holder to make end game longer to reach. 90s have exploded in drop rate, destroying prices so that people can gear for 95.
Right now new players goal should be a good 90 set, when 95 comes out, it will be the hunt for a 95 weapon and maybe consider 95 armor but can stick with 90 armor.
1) you say key items that likely cost players NX are too expensive, so your argument is make lv 95 supper expensive so someone can sell that item and buy lv 90 gear (which anyone new is already given). And that you want the game to make it hard for folks to hit max gear.
My argument was simply the fact that you claimed everything is cheaper, which simply isn't true. By your logic, players who don't buy gold or sell nx items shouldn't have the means to obtain gold for things such as maxing shards, maxing att release, or buying the 300-500m outfitters off the MP? Also I never even said anything about selling 95 gear to buy 90 gear.. what? I said the game needs more options of obtaining gold from actually playing AKA drops so that way players who don't buy nx all day are somewhat decently rewarded and have a chance to buy expensive items in addition to being motivated to actually run content. Why do you think most players, especially veterans mostly only run Abomination and Eochaid if anything at all? Because seal shop.
2) But you also you say that people that haven't played 6+ years like most of the folks who are fully geared should still be handed out gold in another form to make it easier to get final gear.
No, I never said anyone should be handed out gold lmao. I said that players who actively play the game, especially endgame content should have a chance at actually being rewarded with a decent drop to sell therefore motivating them to keep running it.
The only reason NA prices are so ridiculous is the gold buyers. Both KR & EU have had reasonable prices for some time, and that was even before EU got the seal shop. NA has done it to itself, and the only people on the forum constantly wanting to make more and more gold are players who were already rich who are now unhappy that they aren't making the fortunes that they used to--even though it's all relative and they gold they have saved is worth more than ever--and newer players who are now at end game and want to quickly make money to catch up.
The masses of money taken out of the economy with whales and/or gold buyers moving on and the increase in available full OJ/enchanted/enhanced gear have all increased the supply of products and decreased the relative amount of gold available, so prices have dropped. A lot seem to also not realize that the only way MMOs have a fully functional economy is to have someone actually monitoring it, and in reality Vindi is not deep enough to need that kind management. The only things that are still relatively high are NX items, which in terms of getting a good return in gold for them is pretty fair considering that they're basically a direct cash for gold trade done legally in game.
Almost all other MMO-style titles had effective token systems looooong before Vindi finally implemented the seal shop updates. People shouldn't have to spend their literal lives farming in game in hopes of lucky drops or grinding themselves until their eyes hurt just to be able to progress.
My argument was simply the fact that you claimed everything is cheaper, which simply isn't true.
But it is... outfitters were going for 1-2b... now they go for ~150m. Yes most NX items haven't tanked as much as normal items. But Prototypemind said it is fair since folks are paying $$ for those items. (But even +11 runes were what ~200m now they are ~45m?)
Also prices on orange didn't tank that much till we could start upgrading them. (That isn't a seal shop feature.) (IE 45 bal shards were still ~250m... then in 1 day they dropped to ~45m due to that update.)
No, I never said anyone should be handed out gold lmao. I said that players who actively play the game, especially endgame content should have a chance at actually being rewarded with a decent drop to sell therefore motivating them to keep running it.
We need more items in the game that aren't worth 100k. There simply needs to be more ways of obtaining gold other than emptying your wallet on Airtight gachas.
Cool, so you really should know how the market has dramatically dropped on everything. (Maybe it is just West/East, but from what I knew even EU has the issue. Were 3m gold sinks = big money now, ie more than the orange shards cost.) (Note this is the exact same pattern that we have had for any lvl. Glas pants were >100m, then dragon mats, then lako/kraken, then orange shards, next lv95.)
There is literally NO worthwhile way to farm gold in this game.
-No one is able to legitly and respectably farm gold in any large amount.
-Items cost over hundreds of millions of gold each with many more in the tens of millions of gold range.
-Repair costs of equipment itself basically removes natural gold gain from doing missions.
So how does anyone have gold anywhere to be buying anything at all?
We've had this discussion over and over. All the haters and sheeps that defend Nexon's choices will come here and start snapping at me for asking the right questions and for speaking a truth.
The fact is the way this economy works no one should have money for anything and if players were all playing legitimately the most something would cost is probably a few tens of mil or so.
There is only one source of this much gold in this game and it's from sources that Nexon doesn't want anyone discussing on here. But hey, it's real.
And here's the constructive criticism I will give Nexon: Don't let them do it. Or, if you are going to let them do it, don't stop us from talking about it here because players looking to get gold to buy their gear needs to know about it.
But I am hoping that we get lv 95 orange mats in the seal shop right away, so get that up to ~950 or so if you aren't already there. (Burn 50 on solid/smooth shards to craft good armor if they are a good roll, else break them down.)
This is the worst idea I think I've ever heard ever. So basically you want to keep endgame contents worthless as possible while simultaneously demotivating ppl from idk, actually running it? Kk.
The seal shop shouldn't be for endgame gear unless your goal is to continue to tank the economy even more than it already is? We need more items in the game that aren't worth 100k. There simply needs to be more ways of obtaining gold other than emptying your wallet on Airtight gachas.
If we dont get level 95 mats in the seal shop, they will have absurd prices and most of the people buying them would be gold buyers or people with literally nothing left to do. I dont think its healthy for the game to go back to the days when s2 mats went for ridiculous prices. I heard someone paid $40+ for a kraken fang back then.
Upgrading from level 90 to 95 would be hard enough as it is, given that they would to re-enhance and re-enchant everything from scratch, not to mention spamming expertise to get 3 star again. Most people with +10 level 90 OJ enchanted armor probably will not bother upgrading to level 95 armor until it gets easier.
Given that seal sources got massively nerfed, it wouldnt become worthless just from being in the seal shop. A level 90 OJ weapon costs 350 seals now, at 6 seals per day (assuming s3 raids only), that takes forever. They are still cheap because the drop rates for OJ stuff got massively buffed, but if a leve 95 OJ weapon costs like, 500 seals or more, and the drop rate is rare (its apparently super rare in KR), they would still be worth a lot.
There is literally NO worthwhile way to farm gold in this game.
-No one is able to legitly and respectably farm gold in any large amount.
-Items cost over hundreds of millions of gold each with many more in the tens of millions of gold range.
-Repair costs of equipment itself basically removes natural gold gain from doing missions.
So how does anyone have gold anywhere to be buying anything at all?
We've had this discussion over and over. All the haters and sheeps that defend Nexon's choices will come here and start snapping at me for asking the right questions and for speaking a truth.
The fact is the way this economy works no one should have money for anything and if players were all playing legitimately the most something would cost is probably a few tens of mil or so.
There is only one source of this much gold in this game and it's from sources that Nexon doesn't want anyone discussing on here. But hey, it's real.
And here's the constructive criticism I will give Nexon: Don't let them do it. Or, if you are going to let them do it, don't stop us from talking about it here because players looking to get gold to buy their gear needs to know about it.
The inflation is from gold sellers/buyers. EU doesnt have a massively inflated economy and gold from battles actually matters.
Druid/Kraken are the most profitable gold runs I think, in terms of time spent. Farming s3 maps gets old too quickly. s2 regular dungeons are much faster than s1 dungeons and can net you 20k+ and orbs. s3 dailies give you a fair bit of gold as well. s1 former raids with the daily bonus can be done near instantly and give you about 13k gold. Muir on normal mode still gives decent gold, but its annoying because the mini game sometimes glitches out and instantly fails.
Comments
This is the worst idea I think I've ever heard ever. So basically you want to keep endgame contents worthless as possible while simultaneously demotivating ppl from idk, actually running it? Kk.
The seal shop shouldn't be for endgame gear unless your goal is to continue to tank the economy even more than it already is? We need more items in the game that aren't worth 100k. There simply needs to be more ways of obtaining gold other than emptying your wallet on Airtight gachas.
Why? You do know that if they don't get put them into the seal shop it will cost ~400+ mil per shard again? Even when we had random orange shards/feathers it still cost ~250m for a weapon feather for nearly a year and ~50-80 for an armor.
The reason everything is so cheap right now is that the market is flooded compared to the demand... It didn't get flooded by having the items in the seal shop, it gets flooded by being around for how many years.
And if everything is cheap... you don't need to be at 4x gold cap to buy fully scrolled lv 95 gear.
Sure it stinks to be sitting on items that are worth bil to have them drop to be worth millions, but that is the way all nexon mmorpgs work. (Trust me I wish I had sold a lot of items days before the re-release, etc.)
Except for not everything would be cheap. Pretty sure preenchanted armors would still cost a ton cuz preenchanted. Higher enhanced weapons?! Tradeable outfitters, etc. How do you suppose players, especially new players, who aren't prepared to throw tons of $$$ at the game on nx items will obtain any of those other than making it themselves if every drop they get from actually raiding is worth basically nothing?
Also, it's my opinion that endgame gear shouldn't be super cheap or easily obtainable. It's op, and for that reason it should be more of a challenge to get. Something to work towards, a reason to actually play the game.
My point is this game needs more options to obtain gold from drops and actually playing versus p2w. Having rare stuff, especially NEW content being put on the seal shop ASAP lowers the value. Who's going to buy a mat for 50-100m+ if they can just farm seals for like 2 weeks? No one.
And you are arguing 2 different sides.
1) you say key items that likely cost players NX are too expensive, so your argument is make lv 95 supper expensive so someone can sell that item and buy lv 90 gear (which anyone new is already given). And that you want the game to make it hard for folks to hit max gear.
2) But you also you say that people that haven't played 6+ years like most of the folks who are fully geared should still be handed out gold in another form to make it easier to get final gear.
I for one am fine with making the game require a lot of work to get good gear. (IT took me ~5 years to become OP, then it was easy to keep it up.)
But everything is cheaper so it is already much easier to gear up. Heck intermediate element stone sellers are crying, they are selling for <2m. Best case scenario, someone that has been around for say 6 months has manage to make ~100-500m and can now afford some great gear due to rise tanking prices.
They wont be able to afford lv 95 gear till it is buy-able via seal. (And don't expect to be able to get much hand me downs... most folks decided to boom their gear for that hope at +12 or better gear).
Finally when did you even start playing? The Regina orange mats were sealing for ~250 seals, you had RNG to hope for a weapon feather. And less than a year ago Regina weapon feathers were still going strong at 200m. It has only tanked after last summer.
Just like 80
Just like 90
Putting 95 stuff in seal shop makes it far too easy, would be nice, but end game needs to take at least some time to get. If it were to go in seal shop, people would just save up seals now and then have full 95 armor the first day[after running raid to unlock obviously and it's just an example :c!]
New stuff being rare is a place holder to make end game longer to reach. 90s have exploded in drop rate, destroying prices so that people can gear for 95.
Right now new players goal should be a good 90 set, when 95 comes out, it will be the hunt for a 95 weapon and maybe consider 95 armor but can stick with 90 armor.
or something like that :cMy argument was simply the fact that you claimed everything is cheaper, which simply isn't true. By your logic, players who don't buy gold or sell nx items shouldn't have the means to obtain gold for things such as maxing shards, maxing att release, or buying the 300-500m outfitters off the MP? Also I never even said anything about selling 95 gear to buy 90 gear.. what? I said the game needs more options of obtaining gold from actually playing AKA drops so that way players who don't buy nx all day are somewhat decently rewarded and have a chance to buy expensive items in addition to being motivated to actually run content. Why do you think most players, especially veterans mostly only run Abomination and Eochaid if anything at all? Because seal shop.
No, I never said anyone should be handed out gold lmao. I said that players who actively play the game, especially endgame content should have a chance at actually being rewarded with a decent drop to sell therefore motivating them to keep running it.
I started playing approximately in May of 2012.
The masses of money taken out of the economy with whales and/or gold buyers moving on and the increase in available full OJ/enchanted/enhanced gear have all increased the supply of products and decreased the relative amount of gold available, so prices have dropped. A lot seem to also not realize that the only way MMOs have a fully functional economy is to have someone actually monitoring it, and in reality Vindi is not deep enough to need that kind management. The only things that are still relatively high are NX items, which in terms of getting a good return in gold for them is pretty fair considering that they're basically a direct cash for gold trade done legally in game.
Almost all other MMO-style titles had effective token systems looooong before Vindi finally implemented the seal shop updates. People shouldn't have to spend their literal lives farming in game in hopes of lucky drops or grinding themselves until their eyes hurt just to be able to progress.
But it is... outfitters were going for 1-2b... now they go for ~150m. Yes most NX items haven't tanked as much as normal items. But Prototypemind said it is fair since folks are paying $$ for those items. (But even +11 runes were what ~200m now they are ~45m?)
Also prices on orange didn't tank that much till we could start upgrading them. (That isn't a seal shop feature.) (IE 45 bal shards were still ~250m... then in 1 day they dropped to ~45m due to that update.)
Sorry I over interpreted:
As you wanted nexon to give drops to folks that = lots of money => give folks lots of money.
Cool, so you really should know how the market has dramatically dropped on everything. (Maybe it is just West/East, but from what I knew even EU has the issue. Were 3m gold sinks = big money now, ie more than the orange shards cost.) (Note this is the exact same pattern that we have had for any lvl. Glas pants were >100m, then dragon mats, then lako/kraken, then orange shards, next lv95.)
-No one is able to legitly and respectably farm gold in any large amount.
-Items cost over hundreds of millions of gold each with many more in the tens of millions of gold range.
-Repair costs of equipment itself basically removes natural gold gain from doing missions.
So how does anyone have gold anywhere to be buying anything at all?
We've had this discussion over and over. All the haters and sheeps that defend Nexon's choices will come here and start snapping at me for asking the right questions and for speaking a truth.
The fact is the way this economy works no one should have money for anything and if players were all playing legitimately the most something would cost is probably a few tens of mil or so.
There is only one source of this much gold in this game and it's from sources that Nexon doesn't want anyone discussing on here. But hey, it's real.
And here's the constructive criticism I will give Nexon: Don't let them do it. Or, if you are going to let them do it, don't stop us from talking about it here because players looking to get gold to buy their gear needs to know about it.
If we dont get level 95 mats in the seal shop, they will have absurd prices and most of the people buying them would be gold buyers or people with literally nothing left to do. I dont think its healthy for the game to go back to the days when s2 mats went for ridiculous prices. I heard someone paid $40+ for a kraken fang back then.
Upgrading from level 90 to 95 would be hard enough as it is, given that they would to re-enhance and re-enchant everything from scratch, not to mention spamming expertise to get 3 star again. Most people with +10 level 90 OJ enchanted armor probably will not bother upgrading to level 95 armor until it gets easier.
Given that seal sources got massively nerfed, it wouldnt become worthless just from being in the seal shop. A level 90 OJ weapon costs 350 seals now, at 6 seals per day (assuming s3 raids only), that takes forever. They are still cheap because the drop rates for OJ stuff got massively buffed, but if a leve 95 OJ weapon costs like, 500 seals or more, and the drop rate is rare (its apparently super rare in KR), they would still be worth a lot.
The inflation is from gold sellers/buyers. EU doesnt have a massively inflated economy and gold from battles actually matters.
Druid/Kraken are the most profitable gold runs I think, in terms of time spent. Farming s3 maps gets old too quickly. s2 regular dungeons are much faster than s1 dungeons and can net you 20k+ and orbs. s3 dailies give you a fair bit of gold as well. s1 former raids with the daily bonus can be done near instantly and give you about 13k gold. Muir on normal mode still gives decent gold, but its annoying because the mini game sometimes glitches out and instantly fails.