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Most people know by now that your stats dont matter in ein lacher, the game seems to treat you as being bal/att/crit capped. Your additional damage has no effect, but the game seems to give you some amount of additional damage anyway (or it might be due to the effects of the free attack limit release event item).
What wasnt clear was whether bosses scale based on your attack speed. In terms of how fast they are.
So i tried doing some tests, Ahglan with 64 attack speed and Ahglan with 1 attack speed (low level ruins scythe).
Damage was the same of course, but what I found surprising was that Ahglan was noticeably slower when I was using the ruins scythe. With 64 attack speed, Ahglan's 3 hit combo is really fast and getting hit by it due to blink's after delay is really easy. With 1 attack speed, he moves so slow that I had no trouble reacting to any of his attacks. However, with 1 attack speed, my attacks were very slow as well (very noticeable given a 63 attack speed difference).
If there is no speed scaling, then I should have been at a major disadvantage when trying to get gold (due to being MUCH slower), but it was actually easier as I had more time to react to attacks. The amount of openings that I had was the same as well. Right after the cutscene, there is sufficient time for me to do enhanced MOD + BT + snap, with both setups, even with a 63 attack speed difference.
When I tried using insane reaper, I noticed that Ahglan seemed to speed up as well...something that I also noticed when I was trying to do glas ein lacher. So I avoided using IR and just saved SP for arcane gate, which made getting gold much easier than doing it the "normal" way (full gear + IR).
Anyone else experienced something similar?
Im now wondering whether damage skill awakening has any effect in ein lacher...it definately removes skill dura when you kill the boss, but im not sure if the damage actually makes you kill the bosses faster (since the boss hp might scale based on your damage skill awakening, etc).
Comments
Thing is, I started Ein Lacher with 38 speed, and the bosses had normal speed. Now I'm at 62 speed and the attack rating of said bosses seems to be relatively the same. So it may vary from class to class according to these claims. Note that I play Cross Gun Kai. If they had an increased animation speed, then around 70 speed is when they will start to have "hero animation" according to your scaling claim as Hero animation increases attack animation of bosses, but I don't know the exact amount of speed %age, so if anyone is willing to help with that, feel free.
Though, we may never know unless we make tests on it. I'll get to that as soon as I can.
EDIT: BTW waking stones work In Ein Lacher, so their effects are taken into consideration.
I did take two videos, but they probably wont be very conclusive. The 3 hit combo in the video with 1 attack speed does seem a lot slower, but thats of course subjective. When I have time i might edit and upload them.
Additional damage stat do apply in ein lacher, but it is capped at 120 (equal to a +10 weapon). Anything beyound 120 do not count. If you have less than 120 additional damage, it will use your actual stat.
Your attack is capped 20k in ein lacher, but bosses have 13k def. If you have less than 20k attack, you will do less damage. This do mean normally s3 attack capped players will do significantly less damage in ein lacher.
Your def is capped at 10k, far too low to take hits. Most bosses will kill you with non-crits in 4 - 6 hits. No clue about crit resist; but it is a irrelevant stat due to how few hits you can take, if any at all.
Crit cap is probalby somewhere around 100 - 110, much lower than normal for s3, but I don't know the exact value. I did most of my ein lacher runs on 107 crit, could not really tell any difference compared to 130 crit.
Your bal does matter. Ein lacher uses your actual bal.
Awakenings work fully in ein lacher. Dura does not seem to drain if you press the quick restart button. Dura is definitely drained when you successfully clear a mission.
Some extras:
- You cannot use artifacts in ein lacher, but enchants on them like fast still do work.
- Bosses have practically infinite knockdown resistance in ein lacher. You basically cannot knock them down without using 1k sp holds. Bosses that are 100% to be knocked down in the real world by a fifi counterattack like black breeze will not go down even after 100 counters.
- Picking up secondary weapons in battle (such as judgement of goddess in glas) and using them will count as "cheating" and disqualify you from the run.
- All boss HP is scaled to ~40% of a normal s3 raid solo.
- Boss crit resist (and hence your crit required to cap) is much lower than normal for s3, as stated above.
- Remaining boss stats are mostly the standard values for s3 raids.
Not true, i tested with a +0 ruins scythe and a +13 nighthawk scythe. Both dealt the same damage.
This is obviously not true, if we only have 7k attack above boss def then this would be VERY obvious. I had less than 10k ATT with the ruins scythe and still dealt full damage.
http://i.imgur.com/ayDslJc.jpg
Void star dealing 4662 non crit damage with a +0 ruins scythe and no other gear. Void star has a damage multiplier of 0.455, the extra damage is probably from attack limit release.
I see no difference (DPS and kill time wise) with ruins scythe + nothing else vs full gear.
Was inclined to disagree, so I tried testing again. I nerfed my BAL as much as possible with fasts and no bal boosting gear, and got it down to 63 bal. MOD ticks were as low as 103 damage, while the lowest ticks that i got while balance capped was 119.
People on discord told me this was fixed.
I'm not sure how crit applies in ein lacher.
The only thing that changers is the speed. If you have over 50(?) the boss will have 20%(?) more HP than if you were below that threshold. That's it.
Ein bosses have 600,000 HP no matter what. Doesn't matter if you have 1 speed, 50 speed, or 85 speed. (massive impact does around 67,000 damage if it crits and since Ein treats bal and crit as capped, you have a 50-50 shot to crit, and a min 90 max 100 roll to do the max potential (37,500 damage) on massive impact if it does not crit.
If this were to be true, than a KR X gun kai that normally has 51-61 speed would take around two minutes longer when compared to some of my speed kills due to the larger HP pool while being a bit slower to load up perf/six shot/dual hollow.
Depending on how often a boss attacks, most of these battles would last in a range of 3-7 minutes if you are able to fully master Cross Gun (see my speed Kill archives for more details on that).
I'll do full testing tomorrow. Until then, hang tight.
Another thing to note is the crit, does our crit actually get buffed to cap if we're not capped? I'm curious as to how this works since Lann has a different crit cap from other characters. I'm only capped up till s2 for crit, and s3 einrach definitely felt like a normal raid where I would have to rely on risky wind buffs or infusions.
ATT, Crit, Bal, and Defense are "Normalized", meaning they are treated as if they are capped. The only stats that do not scale are attack speed, Waking stone benefits, and HP (not that it matters if you're going for gold). Additional Damage does not apply in Ein fights, which is why skills don't do as much damage as one think it does.
All smash attacks in Ein Lacher have a 50-50 chance of scoring a critical hit. Max damage potential in Ein Lacher is treated as if you have 90 balance.
0 attack speed - 183 critical damage
62 attack speed - 195 critical damage
Seems that critical damage is a stat that is "normalized" in Ein Lacher on some skills.
time difference - 1:37
10% hp bonus for having more speed is inconclusive. 9 second difference to deal the same amount of damage per bar due to the speed difference. 9x10 = 90 seconds. 90 seconds = 1:30. Loading times for the 0 attack speed test are also longer, and thus affected greatly, resulting in time loss.
having faster attacking animation based on speed is inconclusive. Both speed tests have the same attacking animation speed from the enemy.
Att, bal, crit rating, and defense is conclusive. they are treated as if they are Capped.
Critical damage is affected by some skills, but most of the time, they are "normalized". Note that Armed and dangerous and insight from the 0 speed test does lower damage than the 62 speed test, yet hollow shot, massive impact, perforate, and six shooter, along with bombs do the same amount of damage.
Waking stone power is conclusive. You can use waking stones in Ein Lacher and durability is drained as it is used there. This is proven in the 62 speed test where the waking stone power for hollow shot ran out, and both tests having cooldown or SP reduction on some skills.
How is BAL capped when i can get low MOD ticks if i gimp my bal? Although that was with 2 fast and no balboosting gear, so its possible that your base bal is set to 90 but the fasts still applies a penalty and can lower your bal below 90?
Also one thing that i consistently see about this game is that the speeds ingame dont match the ones of the video you are recording. Might be a souce engine thing...but the speeds in videos are usually faster than the ones i see ingame.
In order to do that, I have to wait for aghlan to come back up again. RNG for Ein Lacher is a pain at times in terms of having the boss show up. If luck previals, it may appear as soon as tomorrow, or if it's bad, then I have to wait a few days, if not more.
I completely took off my armor and accessories (artifact included) for the 0 speed test (78 balance for the black gust weapon).
Fast scrolls will increase the speed of the character, but Ein Lacher "Normalizes" balance, so it wouldn't matter anyway (hence hollow point doing the same amount of damage in BOTH tests). If I were to apply the triple fast on my accessories, my balance would have dropped to 54 balance while gaining 15 speed, but that doesn't matter anyway because X gun kai needs 18 speed to reach the level 2 shooting speed threshold, therefore making the test results practically the same other than a mild affection to the critical damage stat, which therefore increases armed/dangerous and insight shots by a bit.
However, it still would make negligible difference to the time as opposed to a kai with 0 speed and at best, I would only be saving at the maximum of 15 seconds, maybe 20 tops in the assumption of not missing the target. The issue is that even if I were to change my balance (whether good or bad), Ein Lacher's mechanics would "normalize" it anyway since I can ONLY change my gear before starting the battle (you can even change gear during the docking section to further validate the point).
In game time and real time are completely different thresholds defined by the speed running community (see silent hill 1 speed run in X:Xx:xX:XX IGT any% for more on that) where they are dependent on the game itself.
If you have a good condition computer/intenet provider depending on the game, then you will experience a 1:1 ratio to IGT and IRLT. However, some computers have a lag or delay as we call it, would take longer for the battle to process and will use IGT instead of IRLT to prevent a significant advantage between the two users. A prime example is a random occurrence in the game freezing for 5 seconds, thus distorting the IGT to IRLT ratio and can ruin the speedrun if it is run in real time instead of in game time.
The time difference is calculated based on real time, but the in game timer still counts down EVEN after you kill the boss, where it would take around 16 seconds to fully distribute the rewards after killing the boss and then subsequently stop counting down (which explains why players still fail the 5 minute speedrun challenge of rescue mission + World of pain even before killing it before counting down to 0). The gold medal is awarded as SOON as you kill said boss.
Evie's Mark of Death also operates under the same mechanics of critical damage (assuming it crits) dependent on the stat threshold along with Additional burst damage being completely nullified in Ein Lacher. The same case would happen as having a 0 speed evie taking longer to snap her fingers in comparison to a 62 speed evie doing the same attack pattern. It takes longer to build up, and then you have RNG playing out of the 90-100 balance pendulum for max damage potential, along with the critical damage (if it crits) factor playing out. Main reason why you're doing such low damage (3-6,000 from that I saw in Blackstoryz's Ein Lacher Aghlan fight where he at the time has 72 speed base, along with other fights) is that your attacks are not critting while following the 90-100 balance pendulum the game formulates using RNG. Critical damage does not apply to the formula if the attack does not crit.
I have played a bit of scythe evie to help one of my friends level from 80-90 using the Ein Lacher EXP method, but if any scythe evie main would wish to confirm my claim, please feel free to do so (with provisions of video).
Under normal circumstances (any battle that has a crit/attack cap and not normalized or affected by mechanics of extra burst damage (phantenum's fire/lightning phases along with braha's pendulum mechanic of extra damage) of my +11 immoral valor Regina X gun (additional burst damage of 150 and with damage +10% stone active for hollow shot), my hollow points do as low as 16,000 to as high as 19,000 damage (in rare occasions 20,000 damage) with 90 balance on the first blast of the dual hollow, and on the second one, it does as high as 8,000 to 11,000 damage on the 2nd blast if it crits.
I just tested MOD ticks in ein lacher again, this time with 48 bal (achieved with 3 fasts) and no attack limit release/skill awakening.
http://i.imgur.com/3cRtI1i.jpg
90 damage ticks do not happen when you are balance capped in ein lacher or anywhere else.
My theory was that even if ein lacher makes you balance capped, maybe it only sets your base balance to 90 and not your final balance, so you can still drop below 90 balance if you are stacking fast. If your final balance is always set to 90, that would mean that running all accessories with fast to stack speed would be a great idea for ein lacher.
When i said that ingame animations seem slower than when i view the recorded video, i was referring to the animation speed itself, e.g. the amount of time it takes to pull off a smash. Not the ingame clock or anything. There are some rare instances in which i do a solo dungeon and the animation speeds just seem much higher than normal, but its hard to tell if thats just a perception effect.
I will test 0 (black gust only), 10 (armor only + black gust), 15 (black gust + triple fast while taking armor off), 25 (black gust + normal armor set I'm wearing), 39 speed (my main weapon only), 47 (taking off all my fast accessories), and finally 62 (my normal speed) speed on the same boss tomorrow and see what happens. Though for consistency, all tests have to be gold medals.
The default is to use the application setting or the windows default of 3 if there isnt one. That was probably causing more latency or whatever.