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define "gear reliant"? i mean, if you want high dmg, every class is "gear reliant"
given Muir as an example, I have the following through out my experience over the course of a year:
Event geared TS vella=barely killed Muir before second smash
Event geared scythe evie=easily kill Muir before second smash
+10 purple lv90 weapon sword fifi=can't kill Muir before second smash
+8 Oj lv90 weapon arisha=barely killed Muir before second smash
op delia which is not equivalent to above. Couple smashes into first smash, couple smashes to end the battle lol So OP on sandbag bosses.
Hope these mean anything on defining "gear reliant"
I think Scythie and Lann are probably the most gear reliant. Their skills seem the most tied to their stats, in the sense that the higher your numbers are, the more effectivly your can use your skills.
Kai is probably the least tbh, just grab a bow and sit in the back behind your crew of meatshields and shoot him. Even if you don't have high stats, the fact that you never really have to stop dealing damage sort of guarantees you'll contribute your part.
I think Scythie and Lann are probably the most gear reliant. Their skills seem the most tied to their stats, in the sense that the higher your numbers are, the more effectivly your can use your skills.
True. But (Sword) Lann no doubt has it a lot worse. In a sandbag situation, a Scythe Evie will always outperform an equally geared Lann if both are played to their full potential just due to the fact that no matter what you do for Lann, he will never be able to consistently deal reliable damage because he literally needs crits to function. And Crits are random.
(Sword) Lann needs crits just to keep up in terms of damage. Take Scythe Evie for example. An enhanced Bloody Thread deals as much damage as Lann's 4th smash or his first glide when either crits (about 12k ish). The smash that lands Bloody Thead does (on my 78 balance evie) 6k on a crit. Without crits, Lann is left dealing~5k damage whereas Scythe Evie is dealing always at least ~9k.
So much for increased critical damage. What a useless gimmick.
I just don't understand why they nerfed Sword Lann. As much gear as he needs to max his potential and as well as he needs to be played to get the most out of him it's pretty ridiculous to handicap him.
I just don't understand why they nerfed Sword Lann. As much gear as he needs to max his potential and as well as he needs to be played to get the most out of him it's pretty ridiculous to handicap him.
I will just post this here, att speed matters to kai not much as scythe evie, but for gun aim for 50speed as a min, and 60attspeed for bow as a min(low speed bow kai is such trash its no joke)
Any other Kai players around to support this claim?
Yep, I main a Kai. I have 60 speed, for Crossgun it matters on rotation speed, your Hollow shots are much faster.
As for Bow Kai, It's cancer if you don't have at least 50+ (that's my minimum).
Going back to the question in hand, the least gear dependent classes are gonna have to be INT users.
Yes, having more speed is better, but you can make do with a +10, no need to have 60+ speed. Having around 30+ is perfectly fine
if you don't worry about having #1 DPS. I have a trash Evie that doesn't even have a +10, no max Crit, no max Bal, hell I don't even have 9k def and I still manage to contribute 8%+ damage on a full party, with barely 20k attack.
Sword Lann because he needs speed as well as crit to function properly. Otherwise you are missing half his gameplay.
Hurk is a special case and only in Neam (imo) as hes the only one who requires a decent amount of defense so you won't end up with a net loss of hp even when dodging everything perfectly. Almost all her attacks do 700dmg when you successfully absorb and you can only heal back a max of 900. Playing with a staff evie makes a world of a difference, and it isn't even from the healing from coro, its from the mana shield buff that halves the damage he takes from absorbing attacks.
Other classes would more or less require a decent amount of speed to function in certain raids. Lynn, Hammer, Delia, Spear Lann, and Scythe all require a certain amount of speed before they can function properly. For the rest, I would say speed is more of a luxury rather than a necessity past the 30ish point.
With average gear, Lynn/Delia or Scythe Evie is resorted to use weaker smash if she doesn't want to get hit.
With low crit, good luck for Lann trying to use gilding fury at all.
First of all, I dunno why you threw Lynn in there. She's not AS dependent. If anything, too much AS can mess up her zhen timings.
Secondly, this "X class needs Y AS to function properly" is an over exaggeration and only really applies to solo mode. You can function perfectly fine with 40 AS Scythe in parties and I'm sure Delia and Hammeriona can do so too. When there are 8 players in the party or when the boss is stun-locked, you don't have to resort to weaker smashes. And even in a solo scenario, it's not all the bosses. Some bosses are sand-baggy enough to solo with 40 AS Scythe.
Sure you could say some classes scale better with AS (and no one can beat Chain Vella in that department). But this "so and so class is literally unplayable below X AS" is too dramatic. Except for Sword Lann, since the core of his gameplay is dependent on stats.
Lmao you did it again. Putting words into people's mouth. Nobody here ever said anything bout X class needs y AS to function that they are unplayable if they dont hve X AS. Also the OP asked about listing gear reliance from least to most. That means stats and gear is a spectrum. Its not absolute where a class will automatically function tremendously better if they hit a speed. There are thresholds speeds that show bigger benefits in gameplay though. The kai speed threshold is actually a thing, you can test it yourself but you most likely wont put in the time to test things and just yell lets insult everyone.
Moderators edit: Please do not be rude to your fellow forumers.
As stated before, Sword Lann > all, anyone that says otherwise clearly has never played Lann lol.
It is the only class that actually requires stats to get a full gameplay experience, even if played perfectly (and even if maxed stats it's still a RNG fiesta)
Arguably, if played perfectly, hurk doesn't need def (since absorbing won't kill you even if you are at 1 hp), even if people would rather play it safe for obvious reasons, especially on neamhain.
Comments
Hammer Fiona
Both Lann weapons
Pilar Karok
Vella
Lynn
Maybe Xgun Kai.
In no specific order.
given Muir as an example, I have the following through out my experience over the course of a year:
Event geared TS vella=barely killed Muir before second smash
Event geared scythe evie=easily kill Muir before second smash
+10 purple lv90 weapon sword fifi=can't kill Muir before second smash
+8 Oj lv90 weapon arisha=barely killed Muir before second smash
op delia which is not equivalent to above. Couple smashes into first smash, couple smashes to end the battle lol So OP on sandbag bosses.
Hope these mean anything on defining "gear reliant"
Kai is probably the least tbh, just grab a bow and sit in the back behind your crew of meatshields and shoot him. Even if you don't have high stats, the fact that you never really have to stop dealing damage sort of guarantees you'll contribute your part.
Everyone else is a meme.
True. But (Sword) Lann no doubt has it a lot worse. In a sandbag situation, a Scythe Evie will always outperform an equally geared Lann if both are played to their full potential just due to the fact that no matter what you do for Lann, he will never be able to consistently deal reliable damage because he literally needs crits to function. And Crits are random.
(Sword) Lann needs crits just to keep up in terms of damage. Take Scythe Evie for example. An enhanced Bloody Thread deals as much damage as Lann's 4th smash or his first glide when either crits (about 12k ish). The smash that lands Bloody Thead does (on my 78 balance evie) 6k on a crit. Without crits, Lann is left dealing~5k damage whereas Scythe Evie is dealing always at least ~9k.
So much for increased critical damage. What a useless gimmick.
Highest speed scaling: lynn, scythe
Because [expletive] Lann, amirite.
But that's off topic.
Yep, I main a Kai. I have 60 speed, for Crossgun it matters on rotation speed, your Hollow shots are much faster.
As for Bow Kai, It's cancer if you don't have at least 50+ (that's my minimum).
Going back to the question in hand, the least gear dependent classes are gonna have to be INT users.
Yes, having more speed is better, but you can make do with a +10, no need to have 60+ speed. Having around 30+ is perfectly fine
if you don't worry about having #1 DPS. I have a trash Evie that doesn't even have a +10, no max Crit, no max Bal, hell I don't even have 9k def and I still manage to contribute 8%+ damage on a full party, with barely 20k attack.
Hurk used to be god tier too until they bring dem raid bosses that hit like trucks.
Hurk is a special case and only in Neam (imo) as hes the only one who requires a decent amount of defense so you won't end up with a net loss of hp even when dodging everything perfectly. Almost all her attacks do 700dmg when you successfully absorb and you can only heal back a max of 900. Playing with a staff evie makes a world of a difference, and it isn't even from the healing from coro, its from the mana shield buff that halves the damage he takes from absorbing attacks.
Other classes would more or less require a decent amount of speed to function in certain raids. Lynn, Hammer, Delia, Spear Lann, and Scythe all require a certain amount of speed before they can function properly. For the rest, I would say speed is more of a luxury rather than a necessity past the 30ish point.
Lmao you did it again. Putting words into people's mouth. Nobody here ever said anything bout X class needs y AS to function that they are unplayable if they dont hve X AS. Also the OP asked about listing gear reliance from least to most. That means stats and gear is a spectrum. Its not absolute where a class will automatically function tremendously better if they hit a speed. There are thresholds speeds that show bigger benefits in gameplay though. The kai speed threshold is actually a thing, you can test it yourself but you most likely wont put in the time to test things and just yell lets insult everyone.
Moderators edit: Please do not be rude to your fellow forumers.
also chasing neamhain is a problem on lann
It is the only class that actually requires stats to get a full gameplay experience, even if played perfectly (and even if maxed stats it's still a RNG fiesta)
Arguably, if played perfectly, hurk doesn't need def (since absorbing won't kill you even if you are at 1 hp), even if people would rather play it safe for obvious reasons, especially on neamhain.