[NEW MERCENARIES] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.

Transformation changes

SirRFISirRFI
Vindictus Rep: 7,060
Posts: 981
Member
edited April 12, 2017 in Future Content
For last few days I have been doing research on transformation changes that were introduced with December 2016 update in Korea. Here's what I have learned from various sources:



Brief summary of most significant changes:
  • You will be able to transform more often, because transformation is now "charge"/"ammunition" based (can stack up to 3 transformation charges, but still limited to once per battle). Charges still refills with time.
  • Abilities have significantly changed and moved to Path tab in Skills window. Auras, MAX HP, ATK/DEF and HP regeneration abilities has been removed. New abilities allow transformation to last longer and increase ATK CAP limit.
  • There are no more transformation levels - they are replaced with TP, which works like AP. Your path levels will be transferred into TP, and You will be able to reassign them. You can max out every ability with a total of 80 000 TP. Presumably 1 EXP = 1 TP (1 level = 2000 TP).
  • Other abilities are either unchanged or have slightly modified values. The stamina recovery ability in 2nd transformation recovers 60 stamina every 5 seconds when maxed. SP gain modifier ability seems to be weakened, since it probably gains +50% now instead of +90%, not to mention there's no additional ability with same functionality in 2nd transformation.



More into details:

Overall concept:
  • Transformation does not have it's own levels any more. The progression You have made so far has been translated into TP (Transformation Points).
  • Presumable 1 transformation EXP = 1 TP, which calculates to 2000 TP per level (80 000 TP on 40 level). Here's why I think so.
  • Transformation abilities has been moved to Path tab in Skills window.
  • The abilities are unlockable and upgradeable like normal skills, they just require TP instead.
  • Obtaining TP works about the same as transformation experience previously on.
  • Transformation is no longer available again at the beginning of new hour. Instead, with time points are generated, 100 of which are required to use transformation. You can have up to 300 points.
  • Seemingly 1 point regenerates every minute.
  • You can have up to 80 000 TP, which is enough to max every transformation ability.
  • I don't know what happened to base stats provided by transformations, if anything.


Transformation abilities
  • Aura abilities have been removed (certain amount of SP to every party member every moment for Paladin, certain amount of maximum stamina to every party member every moment for Dark Knight).
  • Apparently the +300~900 STR/AGI/WIL/INT abilities have been removed.
  • Apparently the +MAX HP abilities have been removed.
  • Apparently the +ATK/DEF abilities have been removed. There's nothing that uses their icon.
  • Apparently the HP regeneration ability has been removed. There's nothing that uses it's icon.
  • New ability has been added, that uses old aura icon. It's located in second transformation and increases "Remove ATT limit" by 1800 on maximum level.
  • New abilities has been added to increase transformation duration. They use the "Potential" and "Destiny" icons (+300~900 stats). There's one of them per transformation forms, each increasing the duration for this particular transformation only by 30 seconds when maxed.
  • In addition to that, there's another ability that increases transformation duration on both forms when killing units. It grants extra 5 seconds of duration when maxed, but still cannot exceed some duration limit. HP icon (crow for DK, eagle/whatever for Pal) has been used for it.
  • Fatigue ability (obtained SP modifier) has been modified. The tooltip displays "150%", so it's probably 150% (as in +50%) modifier. Assuming it's right, in an example You will get 15 SP instead of 10. Icon unchanged (shuriken for DK, eagle/pigeon/other bird for Pal)
  • Stamina ability now grands 60 stamina every 5 seconds when maxed, instead of 8 per 5.
  • Resistance to attacks (as in flinching) ability is unchanged - still grants +95% on maximum.
  • Amount of projectiles ability (Firestorm & Divine Punishement) seems unchanged.
  • Special ability on 2nd form (Fissure & Convinction) seems unchanged.
  • Special ability improvement seems unchanged.
  • I don't know what changes, if any, where made to the projectile ability (Steal & Grasp).

Note: These values has been taken from Dark Knight, but they are most likely the same for Paladin.


Sekaiiz wrote: »
Compiled a list of the skills and points needed to max:

Trans_points.png




This is all what I managed to gather. I don't know if 2nd transformation form still requires 10 AP or uses TP instead. Guess what's important is already mentioned above. I don't know if Paladin abilities are identical, but they are likely to be, so the only differences would be visuals, projectiles and special ability, unless there are stats differences applied to the transformation itself, which I don't know.

I would appreciate up-votes if You found this useful, probably so do everyone else who spends a bit of time trying to share wide amount of information, possibly well-presented.



Source highlights:
Note: I don't take any responsibility for possible threats that may lie within the source links.
AequipondiumManiaCookieZaytiatusGewelliriousTheDayInLoveMochiSweetTabbedDNAnthraXDecayedheroAeledingand 13 others.

Comments

  • RyanReynoldsRyanReynolds
    Vindictus Rep: 1,795
    Posts: 170
    Member
    Noice
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
    Vindictus Rep: 5,590
    Posts: 739
    Member
    Passion is a skill for increasing the duration of when you stay in Trans. Both paths use it. Passion I applies to Trans 1 and Passion II applies to Trans 2
  • dazedgumballdazedgumball
    Vindictus Rep: 7,525
    Posts: 602
    Member
    What about gaining exp for leveling up the trans? Does that remain unchanged as well?
  • SirRFISirRFI
    Vindictus Rep: 7,060
    Posts: 981
    Member
    edited February 22, 2017
    Passion is a skill for increasing the duration of when you stay in Trans. Both paths use it. Passion I applies to Trans 1 and Passion II applies to Trans 2
    Like this?:
    SirRFI wrote: »
    • New abilities has been added to increase transformation duration. They use the "Potential" and "Destiny" icons (+300~900 stats). There's one of them per transformation forms, each increasing the duration for this particular transformation only by 30 seconds when maxed.
    • In addition to that, there's another ability that increases transformation duration on both forms when killing units. It grants extra 5 seconds of duration when maxed, but still cannot exceed some duration limit. HP icon (crow for DK, eagle/whatever for Pal) has been used for it.
    Old "Potiential" → Passion I (30 sec)
    Old "Destiny" → Passion II (30 sec)
    Old HP → Passion (no number) (+5 sec per unit killed)

    ________________________________
    What about gaining exp for leveling up the trans? Does that remain unchanged as well?
    I think it was mentioned on one of the streams, but no details. Presumably the same. Either way it should be faster in the end, since You can stack up to 3 charges.
  • AschennùteAschennùte
    Vindictus Rep: 510
    Posts: 7
    Member
    edited February 26, 2017
    uhm, but if points regenerates 1 each minute, that means we can trans less often.
    300 points regenerates in 5 hours and allows 3 trans, we can trans 5 times now during those 5 hours.
    if we run out of points we will have to wait 1 hour and 40 mins in order to stack 100 points again.
    unless there are other ways to gain them or the numbers involved are different.

    these are theoretical considerations, indipendent from "git gud, you don't need to trans that often" way of thinking.
  • SirRFISirRFI
    Vindictus Rep: 7,060
    Posts: 981
    Member
    uhm, but if points regenerates 1 each minute, that means we can trans less often.
    300 points regenerates in 5 hours and allows 3 trans, we can trans 5 times now during those 5 hours.
    if we run out of points we will have to wait 1 hour and 40 mins in order to stack 100 points again.
    unless there are other ways to gain them or the numbers involved are different.

    these are theoretical considerations, indipendent from "git gud, you don't need to trans that often" way of thinking.
    I know, but I offered no details on this matter as I judged 1 point regenerates every minute from what I have seen on the stream. Perhaps it's slightly smaller, or there are also other factors.

    Assuming it's indeed 1 point per minute and nothing else, players who play all day long will level it slower, while people who play just few hours will possibly level faster. What's most important about this change is that You don't have to look at clock any more to plan out how and if to use transformation, and can use all charges during one raid-train where it's needed most.
  • Controller001Controller001
    Vindictus Rep: 1,420
    Posts: 78
    Member
    bit curious if i have lv40 path, will i get 80k TP points, since even at lv40 path one can only obtain like 60~70% of all skills.
  • SirRFISirRFI
    Vindictus Rep: 7,060
    Posts: 981
    Member
    bit curious if i have lv40 path, will i get 80k TP points, since even at lv40 path one can only obtain like 60~70% of all skills.
    I tried to find this information before, with no success. However, as I was writing my assumptions of how it works for You, I got an idea that I managed to pull off.

    First off: 1 transformation level = 2000 EXP, so 40 levels = 80000 EXP.
    I assumed that they probably calculated it 1 EXP : 1 TP (therefore 1 lv = 2000 TP), or alternatively half of it (so 1 lv = 1000 TP).

    AFKmighty had 36 298 TP on test server, but I had nothing to compare it with. Now what I came up with is I digged up his previous stream (Naemhain), as I remembered he opened Character window. In there we can see he has 17 level, and as far I know he didn't play the game much since. 17 level translates to 34 000 TP, which is pretty close to the other number. Conclusion? He transformed several times throughout the time, gaining one level of transformation (18) and 298 EXP.

    I think it's safe to conclude 1 EXP translates to 1 TP, which simultaneously means 1 level = 2000 TP. Can't be sure though. Updated main post.
    Controller001
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
    Vindictus Rep: 5,590
    Posts: 739
    Member
    Max leveled trans during the revamp will get max TP since the trans exp system will be scrapped. In addition the trans story is now Main Story Quest. No longer Side Story. Another addition Trans 2 is not acquired until lvl 90.
  • GewelliriousGewellirious
    Vindictus Rep: 2,945
    Posts: 364
    Member
    Max leveled trans during the revamp will get max TP since the trans exp system will be scrapped. In addition the trans story is now Main Story Quest. No longer Side Story. Another addition Trans 2 is not acquired until lvl 90.

    This bad habit on pushing everything to lv90 is what kills this game, seriously. Makes me think of Flyff and I know how it ended up..
  • SirRFISirRFI
    Vindictus Rep: 7,060
    Posts: 981
    Member
    edited March 1, 2017
    Max leveled trans during the revamp will get max TP since the trans exp system will be scrapped. In addition the trans story is now Main Story Quest. No longer Side Story. Another addition Trans 2 is not acquired until lvl 90.
    Since most of us will have no chance to do the quest anymore - how does it change? Is it just being promoted to main story and nothing else, or the quest and story itself changed as well? Currently the quest is a bit annoying going between Colhen and Rocheste several times, enforcing player to de-facto kill random bosses. Seriously, how does Paladin diary reside somewhere in random ruins, next to giant frog toad? It always felt off for me and too early in the story.


    Another addition Trans 2 is not acquired until lvl 90.

    Simply put, it can be unlocked past 90 in "Path" skill tab, or it works somehow else? There should be a quest for it in my opinion, tied to story (ie: becoming the new hero after conquering Lugh)
  • Controller001Controller001
    Vindictus Rep: 1,420
    Posts: 78
    Member
    Max leveled trans during the revamp will get max TP since the trans exp system will be scrapped. In addition the trans story is now Main Story Quest. No longer Side Story. Another addition Trans 2 is not acquired until lvl 90.

    This bad habit on pushing everything to lv90 is what kills this game, seriously. Makes me think of Flyff and I know how it ended up..

    Usualy by the time you can get 2nd trans you will likly be lv90+ anyway, but theres goes my dream of making my lv 60 fiona having lv40 trans ):
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
    Vindictus Rep: 5,590
    Posts: 739
    Member
    @SirRFI The idea behind it is more for early game learning for new players. This whole revamp is for helping future players that start playing the game and to be honest it's a good start. The reason being is "Who reads story quests anymore?" It's not so much about where the items were and what not. As for the Diary I have a theory......remember the quest involving the "Broken Staff"? (which I think was scrapped). Well that diary was probably that guys and was probably the intention of that quest. The second you hit lvl 90 you go to the Path tab and unlock it there.

    @Gewellirious No one is trans2 by the time they hit 90 anyway so it doesn't matter anymore.
  • AschennùteAschennùte
    Vindictus Rep: 510
    Posts: 7
    Member
    well, i have a bunch of lvl 70-80 chars with lvl 40 trans.
    actually, 3/14 chars of mine are lvl 90, only 4 AP maxed, 6 under lvl 80, 12 with lvl 40 trans, that is almost all of them.
    that's because when i played a new char, i used to play a couple of hours at day but leave the game running the whole day just for trans.
    maybe i am strange, but i'm sure i'm not the only one that used to do that, this results in having maxed trans way before reaching lvl 90.
    so yeah, it is not unusual to have lvl 40 trans before the level cap (years before the AP cap...), at the contrary for me and for ppl like me it is the norm.
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
    Vindictus Rep: 5,590
    Posts: 739
    Member
    well, i have a bunch of lvl 70-80 chars with lvl 40 trans.
    actually, 3/14 chars of mine are lvl 90, only 4 AP maxed, 6 under lvl 80, 12 with lvl 40 trans, that is almost all of them.
    that's because when i played a new char, i used to play a couple of hours at day but leave the game running the whole day just for trans.
    maybe i am strange, but i'm sure i'm not the only one that used to do that, this results in having maxed trans way before reaching lvl 90.
    so yeah, it is not unusual to have lvl 40 trans before the level cap (years before the AP cap...), at the contrary for me and for ppl like me it is the norm.

    In todays age it actually is unusual since a lot of people realize that Trans is kinda...useless with the current content. It's rarely used nowadays especially if you are one of those players that are good enough without it. Then again those players don't really hardcore level trans since it's just kinda there xD
  • AschennùteAschennùte
    Vindictus Rep: 510
    Posts: 7
    Member
    that's another "git gud" answer?
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
    Vindictus Rep: 5,590
    Posts: 739
    Member
    that's another "git gud" answer?

    If that's how you want to look at it then yes. However that's not what Im even saying. I know players that aren't all that great and just don't really use Trans tbh. That's how forgotten it is tbh. Back when it first came out it actually benefitted ALOT. Now tbh even in Dullahan on KR it's just used as a last resort. Only benefit is you get HP back. That's how everyone treats transformation now.
  • SirRFISirRFI
    Vindictus Rep: 7,060
    Posts: 981
    Member
    edited March 6, 2017
    I am using transformation on daily basis on Yohaad with chainblades, because doing so after first celling attack is enough to deplement the entire transformation and 20+10 coldheart stacks, being extremely buffed by gratis stamina. It's subject to change after the changes due to lack of the aura, but the 60 stamina per 5 on 2nd form should make it up, not to mention extended length and higher atk cap.

    @탱크블레이드
    People been asking me if they can go through a normal battle / dungeon on one transformation, using the extended time by 5 seconds on mob kill. I am uncertain how to understand the "cannot exceed maximum transformation time" - it's either it can't have more than in example 3 minutes on the counter, or cannot exceed some total time. In first scenario killing all mob as soon as possible is unbeneficial, while in the second killing one every 5 seconds can theoretically extend it indefinitely (as long there is something to kill). Mind explaining the mechanism?
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
    Vindictus Rep: 5,590
    Posts: 739
    Member
    edited March 7, 2017
    @SirRFI Yes it does extend the time when killing mobs. Can you go through a full on dungeon? Maybe if it was Donegal or 5 spider brothers. There was a video on youtube of someone doing Donegal on a Spear Lann the beginning to end while in transformation.
  • HallyHally
    Vindictus Rep: 1,985
    Posts: 245
    Member
    I just leveled a kai from scratch in the last few days. I used trans whenever possible to max the trans xp gain. I hit level 90 before trans even reached lvl 3. In today's game, unless you deliberately spend a few weeks leveling trans without really doing any combat; you will not reach lvl 11 trans for stage 2 before you hit lvl 90.

    People used to make use of trans a lot more because of all the extra attack it adds, or the superarmor/extra def to go yolo.. In today's game, with how easy it is to reach the attack cap, that benefit is mostly moot. You'll hit the cap (or quit) long before you gain a bunch of trans levels. Fights that could use extra attack like neam/royal raids/nifl have trans disabled altogether. S3 bosses do so much dmg that the def gains from pala does very little, and will probably get you killed when trans expires if you needed that def in the first place.

    Pretty much the only time I used trans in the past year is to skip miur's minigame.