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For everyone doubting what I'm saying, put all of your gold onto a mule.
Then sell NOTHING. Don't sell any of your drops. Just play the game normally, save all of your drops.
See how much gold you make after you complete content.
I will tell you right now that if you are doing this with level 80+ gear when repair costs were normal before this previous patch, you would have 0 gold and after a bit all your armor and weapons will be broken and you have no gold to repair them. Even NPCing stuff for that piddly squat ~30k in a large haul wouldn't let you survive as your repair costs easily outstrip that.
The only way to maintain the repair costs then was to sell your items to other players for massive amounts of gold.
But again, if everyone is selling stuff to others for millions of gold, but no one is generating that gold, where does that gold come from?
Gold botters/sellers and gold buyers.
For anyone reading, this is the problem at a technical level.
Sure you can be drip fed money in this way or that with your own strategies, and that can be good for working towards expensive gear, but for the average player - which I presume few of us here, as we're on the forums, count as - then making money should be something that can be natural.
99% of people on the marketplace deflate prices of items constantly so that they can get a quick sell, there's no conception that you cause the materials to run down until some rich peep can buy it out (or something similar). It's only when a new load of stock comes around that the prices return to a higher point or the previous standard.
p.s. I'd like to point out that if there were quick and easy ways to make gold, things would be worse, I would imagine.
We're not necessarily talking about quick and easy ways, so much as natural ways.
And you can't say that making gold a more available resource for the many would make things worse without any basis - I'm sure you can at least concede you don't know what would happen.
My interpretation would be that instead of negligible wealth being common, and exorbitant wealth being rare, you would create a higher average (perhaps by, at least a 1m, to allow expensive crafting via NPCs) whilst only inflating the top wealthiest people by a low multiple of that.
E.g. Low goes from 1m > 2.5m, High goes from 500m > 600m.
I think allowing people to afford NPC crafts, money inefficient runs, and providing the resources for talents could enrich the economy. The latter particularly as it would make marketed copies of high level gear higher, as people have crafted more of it themselves.
I guess someone will at least read this topic and think about it a little bit wider. Or i am the only one who see this as problem ?
People are getting caught up on the fact that its working for them, so it mustn't be a problem for anyone.
In reality, the distribution of wealth is not equal, and some people even hold onto large quantities, keeping it out of the system, and sapping the net quantity of money available to spend.
It's just like Milton Friedman's work on production based on the value of a nation's currency:
People have a set point, and they don't think spend more if they get more in the short term, so keeping people's money low, whilst making the top wealth bracket steep and therefore the cost of rare and expensive items high, will keep people from spending their money.
Lowering price on market just to sell as soon as possible is old technique but its not like lowering for 500k its lowering from 5 to 10 kk !!! Thats not normal ! And then how I am supposed to earn some money on Marketplace when i get new belt that should cost 20kk and i puti to n market for 20kk and 3 guys put for 11, 12, 14,5kk?? They should do something about price immediately or this is going to nowhere.
i always find these type of threads funny. The people that try to "fix" the system by making it worse for everybody are hilarious.
You wan't items to be worth more? So now EVERYTHING you want to buy costs more and you end up where you started.
You want to give those with little money some more gold? good - now they spent it all and those that have farmed a lot and already had more money will become even richer.
Botters and Gold-sellers only only inflate the prices for everybody, but don't really change the situation at all.
It just means that all prices are 5x higher - no matter if you sell crap items, or buy the top tier.
No matter what you do, it won't work.
the problem is not the money, how of it there is, or how much people want to sell their stuff for.
Also - a Game where everybody has the Top-of-the-line Equip or where such a thing is necessary has some serious concept problems.
Right now i have 3 Equip-sets on my Evie. Lugh/Regina Set, Blackpearl/Heremon, and the good old Wonderland.
For everything up to Glas the wonderland-set is still enough.
And really - even lvl 90 equipment is dirty cheap.
For a solution on how to solve the current problem?
it exists, but it ain't gonna happen ever.
So you are okay with that to let it be like this, to let prices go only down, no oscialtions ? Whats the point to put item on market place for 20kk then after 3 hours u see same item for 14, 12 ,11, 15 kk ? U think Botters and Gold- sellers inflate? Not on EU , on EU there are no gold and bot sellers. its prohibited. We can do something to change this but people wont give a bit effort for it. Yes, i think if price of items get higher people would have much more money. Much more satisfaction. Otherwise u really like to get drop , be SUPER happy and then u see on market it costs 1kk ? Come on nobody like that. And it can happen ! I will try to make it happen because it will help not only me, it will help all of use - new or old players.
Yes, i think if price of items get higher people would have much more money. Much more satisfaction.
So you think people will be happier if everything costs 10x?
You do realize that it will be the exact same thing - now a weapon will just cost 80 kk instead of 8 kk - no matter how much you artifically increase the prices it won#t change a thing.
Also - how would you go about changing that anyways? how do you want to force a price-increase for items that get sold by players? The price is what people are ok with paying for it. Or do you want to dictate the price for every single item?
Raising prices is important because we only rely on RARE DROPS from raids ( we hope for essence because it brings to us much money) . So with this prices game is LOOSING SEASON 2 AND SEASON 1 MAPS ! People would play then S2 and S1 for scrolls or break off items. With prices like this even Season 3 will die soon. I didn't said i am going to dictate price for every item but change is necessery. I would find a way to change it . If you really want something you can find a way to make it happen !
Is there any way to make GMs se this topic ? Or its only for us players ?
Are these suggestions and feedback section just here to make people write their suggestions not GM's to see it ? It cant be realised ? +sad
I think the idea about new NPC would be the best option. It wold make old items still worth farming and we could earn money on it .
Guys what happened ? Is it possible that you really dont want to try to push game forward? Being satisfied with everything that comes up without giving ur own feedback on , or suggestion cant be good. I think you saw that prices of belt went for 10kk even 6,5kk ... Is this really what you want ? I really want to make this game a better place, to make everyone happy in it. I think GM's and community would aggre with changes. You know how they say on Latin - Variatio delectat- change is good . Letting prices go down with this speed will be bad for us later .
This is an interesting topic. A lot of good points. Devcat and Crew have been making strides to lowering the average price across the economy but recently they did too much too soon. They did it with Back to Back +8 one shot events which created a gold vacuum removing a lot of gold from the game and then multiple cash events and I suspect there will be another one shot after this cycle of cash events and to a lesser extent with the Daily gold boxes you can buy from the Cat in Colhen. Sadly its going to make quite a few players quit for awhile as people get pissed as people are still selling at the old prices before that last vacuum.
You can see it on East right now where the Succubus Queen Set was selling for around 1bil and was 640m at the start of the latest event and is now averaging 200m. +15 90 weapons un-enchanted were 2.5b average around the Last Fall (Depending on Quality and stats) to 1.5b currently. Enchantments themselves are half what they were at the beginning of the year but alot of people keep having them expire before they sell simply because they were asking for the average price for the last few years. Now they took away one of the biggest gold movers and that was Orange Essences most of the Rich/Top Tier Players used the P2W model and were selling the Essences/shards from the Cash shop but now that they are available via the seals they have tanked in price and continue to degrade in price from the previously inflated one. Which will lead to more people crafting weapons and armor trying to make a profit from the seals which will further create more supply then demand further lowering the price.
As far as making gold in game it changes from week to week you have to look at what is farmable and the drop rates and the amount of the product is available.
This week on East:
Magic Powder: 50k
Blessed Magic Powder: 75k
Enhancement Elixer: 97-100k
Magic Elixer: 185k
Blessed Magic Elixer: 230k
Fast Enchant Scroll: 10-13m (Market is getting a little saturated but can still sell)
Valor Enchant Scroll: 7-9m average
Master Enchant Scroll: 5-8m average
Those Items are pretty much Static and require very little RNG to make profit running things. Best Part for the first 6 a LVL 90 with a 90 Enchanted Weapon you can do them Naked.
Personally I bought my first enchanted 80 set before the Seal shop update from farming the above items all in all it was around 1.2b (+11 3* Leo/Mael Arma weapon +10 3* Well Bal Enthu Pirate/Herm set WB/Master chest Dead Pass Thunder Rings Sub-Pass Emerald belt 2* pirate earring).
(90 set not worth mentioning as I used the P2W model as my Employment Improved and I had more disposable income)
I do hate how devcat/nexon has made crafting worthless (Element Stones are not worth the costs it takes to be able to craft them). They also need to stop giving away armor and weapons after level 50 or lower the stats of NPC Crafts/Free gear by 25% or so. Yes the struggle is real on gearing level 60+ but it can be done rather easily just running S1-S2 raids and NPC crafting especially with the increase on the drop rate on the random required items and the somewhat smart loot on Titan. But they need to do something so there is a market for Player Crafted Gear and not just the point counters trying for full 3-5* crafted gear. I think NPC Craft should be on par with 1 star Player Crafted gear so player crafts are relevant in the game and be used as a valid income source and reward the players who spent the weeks and or months acquiring all the mats needed to level their chosen craft and grinding through all those 5min counters.
Sorry for not being here for a while, but the situation is same here . Now we have Rise update, almost level 95 with Dullahan update , and we are still poor. I dont get whats the catch in golds. How are we in possibility to make some golds ? Lets take a look :
After updates , like you know, S2 is playable like 4-6 times ( depends on if you have VIP or VVIP) , so with raising number of doing that maps, they aren't raids anymore , they are normal map that can anyone do in 5 mins. With that drops on S2 such like Amethyst belt, Emerald belt, Ocean depth monster, Crescent moon anouncement, crescent moon ring, thunder ring, Ruby belt, Peridot belt,, Pirate earrings, Black pearl earrings, they are all worth 20k now. If you check my list on the 1st page you could see their price before this. I think this is RIDICULOUS! . So what are our options now ??? Lets see :
Farming S1, S2 - useless that drops are only worth 20k , only for seals, eventually some maps because there is possibility to drop enthusiastic enchant scroll. Farming S3- Raids, because of seals, enchant scrolls, drops ( only main core is actually worth , others are like 50-100k in marketplace) Farming S3 regular maps- well its kinda worth, but if we have in mind that people sell good pieces for like 500-1kk , eventually 2kk ,thats funny Farming for Blessed elixirs - their price is about 30-38 k gold per unit. Thats not bad, but it takes too much time to farm it and then just earn 1-2kk for like 6-7 hours Farming Valor Enchant scroll - it became useless because of too much farming its price is now 70-100k Farming Fast enchant scroll- Same like with Valor, its price is 30k , which is funny how its low Farming Element Stones - Well this section is interesting. Well you need now to farm some low level items, because high level items ( 80,90) by dismantling drops only Spirit Magic Powder ( which price has gone down too ) so you need to play crappy maps to get element stone catalysts and then make new Element stone and sell it for 400k or big element stone for 450k ( funny right ? so much effort in 400k +haha)
So when you see this list and check the marketplace in game, what do you think ? Do you feel like : "Look at this idiot he was lying about prices, he is just too lazy to farm , he just want to be rich by doing nothing" ? I think you dont. I guess you will see that I am right and that everything what i said about prices is true. The only thing i didnt mention is farming for weapon/armor/goldsmithing and tailoring are totaly useless . Its not even worth to have it. Only for crafting level 90 with all prays to be 3-4 star.
I have been thinking about this problem for a months in Vindictus and I came up on my mind with idea that might MIGHT work. So here is the thing : Lets say you have like 5 Orbs in marketplace , 1 from person A , 1 from person B, 1 from person C, 1 from person D and 1 from person E. They put prices like this :
A-20.000
B-25.000
C-30.000
D-35.000
E-40.000
So if I want to put my orbs in shop , there should be some kind of limit, that wouldnt let me to put orbs under 20.000 gold per unit. So prices will only rise and rise. But. Yea, there is always ,,BUT,, . If orbs completely dissapear from shop ( somebody buys them all ) you can set your price in the shop without limits. Only thing there should be is a limit per item . which means orbs cant be in marketplace under THEIR OWN PRICE ORDERED BY NEXON. Lets say Godly Iron ore completely dissapeared from marketplace and you want to put it. You write in 30.000 gold per unit but it wont let you . Why? Their limit in marketplace, no matter if there is or isnt in shop any of it, is, lets say 40,000, so you must put or 40.0000 gold per unit or higher. With this players could use megas, so if they dont want to buy from marketplace, they can buy from players who farmed and sell it on megaphones. This would improve game much more and people will have FOR WHAT to play. For example if I look on marketplace and see that ruby belt is 20k in shop i wont play S2 maps because i dont have for what to play. There i wont earn money, only lose time.
Comments
For anyone reading, this is the problem at a technical level.
Sure you can be drip fed money in this way or that with your own strategies, and that can be good for working towards expensive gear, but for the average player - which I presume few of us here, as we're on the forums, count as - then making money should be something that can be natural.
99% of people on the marketplace deflate prices of items constantly so that they can get a quick sell, there's no conception that you cause the materials to run down until some rich peep can buy it out (or something similar). It's only when a new load of stock comes around that the prices return to a higher point or the previous standard.
_____
We're not necessarily talking about quick and easy ways, so much as natural ways.
And you can't say that making gold a more available resource for the many would make things worse without any basis - I'm sure you can at least concede you don't know what would happen.
My interpretation would be that instead of negligible wealth being common, and exorbitant wealth being rare, you would create a higher average (perhaps by, at least a 1m, to allow expensive crafting via NPCs) whilst only inflating the top wealthiest people by a low multiple of that.
E.g. Low goes from 1m > 2.5m, High goes from 500m > 600m.
I think allowing people to afford NPC crafts, money inefficient runs, and providing the resources for talents could enrich the economy. The latter particularly as it would make marketed copies of high level gear higher, as people have crafted more of it themselves.
_____
People are getting caught up on the fact that its working for them, so it mustn't be a problem for anyone.
In reality, the distribution of wealth is not equal, and some people even hold onto large quantities, keeping it out of the system, and sapping the net quantity of money available to spend.
It's just like Milton Friedman's work on production based on the value of a nation's currency:
People have a set point, and they don't think spend more if they get more in the short term, so keeping people's money low, whilst making the top wealth bracket steep and therefore the cost of rare and expensive items high, will keep people from spending their money.
You wan't items to be worth more? So now EVERYTHING you want to buy costs more and you end up where you started.
You want to give those with little money some more gold? good - now they spent it all and those that have farmed a lot and already had more money will become even richer.
Botters and Gold-sellers only only inflate the prices for everybody, but don't really change the situation at all.
It just means that all prices are 5x higher - no matter if you sell crap items, or buy the top tier.
No matter what you do, it won't work.
the problem is not the money, how of it there is, or how much people want to sell their stuff for.
Also - a Game where everybody has the Top-of-the-line Equip or where such a thing is necessary has some serious concept problems.
Right now i have 3 Equip-sets on my Evie. Lugh/Regina Set, Blackpearl/Heremon, and the good old Wonderland.
For everything up to Glas the wonderland-set is still enough.
And really - even lvl 90 equipment is dirty cheap.
For a solution on how to solve the current problem?
it exists, but it ain't gonna happen ever.
So you think people will be happier if everything costs 10x?
You do realize that it will be the exact same thing - now a weapon will just cost 80 kk instead of 8 kk - no matter how much you artifically increase the prices it won#t change a thing.
Also - how would you go about changing that anyways? how do you want to force a price-increase for items that get sold by players? The price is what people are ok with paying for it. Or do you want to dictate the price for every single item?
Is there any way to make GMs se this topic ? Or its only for us players ?
Are these suggestions and feedback section just here to make people write their suggestions not GM's to see it ? It cant be realised ? +sad
I think the idea about new NPC would be the best option. It wold make old items still worth farming and we could earn money on it .
Guys what happened ? Is it possible that you really dont want to try to push game forward? Being satisfied with everything that comes up without giving ur own feedback on , or suggestion cant be good. I think you saw that prices of belt went for 10kk even 6,5kk ... Is this really what you want ? I really want to make this game a better place, to make everyone happy in it. I think GM's and community would aggre with changes. You know how they say on Latin - Variatio delectat- change is good . Letting prices go down with this speed will be bad for us later .
You can see it on East right now where the Succubus Queen Set was selling for around 1bil and was 640m at the start of the latest event and is now averaging 200m. +15 90 weapons un-enchanted were 2.5b average around the Last Fall (Depending on Quality and stats) to 1.5b currently. Enchantments themselves are half what they were at the beginning of the year but alot of people keep having them expire before they sell simply because they were asking for the average price for the last few years. Now they took away one of the biggest gold movers and that was Orange Essences most of the Rich/Top Tier Players used the P2W model and were selling the Essences/shards from the Cash shop but now that they are available via the seals they have tanked in price and continue to degrade in price from the previously inflated one. Which will lead to more people crafting weapons and armor trying to make a profit from the seals which will further create more supply then demand further lowering the price.
As far as making gold in game it changes from week to week you have to look at what is farmable and the drop rates and the amount of the product is available.
This week on East:
Magic Powder: 50k
Blessed Magic Powder: 75k
Enhancement Elixer: 97-100k
Magic Elixer: 185k
Blessed Magic Elixer: 230k
Fast Enchant Scroll: 10-13m (Market is getting a little saturated but can still sell)
Valor Enchant Scroll: 7-9m average
Master Enchant Scroll: 5-8m average
Those Items are pretty much Static and require very little RNG to make profit running things. Best Part for the first 6 a LVL 90 with a 90 Enchanted Weapon you can do them Naked.
Personally I bought my first enchanted 80 set before the Seal shop update from farming the above items all in all it was around 1.2b (+11 3* Leo/Mael Arma weapon +10 3* Well Bal Enthu Pirate/Herm set WB/Master chest Dead Pass Thunder Rings Sub-Pass Emerald belt 2* pirate earring).
(90 set not worth mentioning as I used the P2W model as my Employment Improved and I had more disposable income)
I do hate how devcat/nexon has made crafting worthless (Element Stones are not worth the costs it takes to be able to craft them). They also need to stop giving away armor and weapons after level 50 or lower the stats of NPC Crafts/Free gear by 25% or so. Yes the struggle is real on gearing level 60+ but it can be done rather easily just running S1-S2 raids and NPC crafting especially with the increase on the drop rate on the random required items and the somewhat smart loot on Titan. But they need to do something so there is a market for Player Crafted Gear and not just the point counters trying for full 3-5* crafted gear. I think NPC Craft should be on par with 1 star Player Crafted gear so player crafts are relevant in the game and be used as a valid income source and reward the players who spent the weeks and or months acquiring all the mats needed to level their chosen craft and grinding through all those 5min counters.
After updates , like you know, S2 is playable like 4-6 times ( depends on if you have VIP or VVIP) , so with raising number of doing that maps, they aren't raids anymore , they are normal map that can anyone do in 5 mins. With that drops on S2 such like Amethyst belt, Emerald belt, Ocean depth monster, Crescent moon anouncement, crescent moon ring, thunder ring, Ruby belt, Peridot belt,, Pirate earrings, Black pearl earrings, they are all worth 20k now. If you check my list on the 1st page you could see their price before this. I think this is RIDICULOUS! . So what are our options now ??? Lets see :
Farming S1, S2 - useless that drops are only worth 20k , only for seals, eventually some maps because there is possibility to drop enthusiastic enchant scroll.
Farming S3- Raids, because of seals, enchant scrolls, drops ( only main core is actually worth , others are like 50-100k in marketplace)
Farming S3 regular maps- well its kinda worth, but if we have in mind that people sell good pieces for like 500-1kk , eventually 2kk ,thats funny
Farming for Blessed elixirs - their price is about 30-38 k gold per unit. Thats not bad, but it takes too much time to farm it and then just earn 1-2kk for like 6-7 hours
Farming Valor Enchant scroll - it became useless because of too much farming its price is now 70-100k
Farming Fast enchant scroll- Same like with Valor, its price is 30k , which is funny how its low
Farming Element Stones - Well this section is interesting. Well you need now to farm some low level items, because high level items ( 80,90) by dismantling drops only Spirit Magic Powder ( which price has gone down too ) so you need to play crappy maps to get element stone catalysts and then make new Element stone and sell it for 400k or big element stone for 450k ( funny right ? so much effort in 400k +haha)
So when you see this list and check the marketplace in game, what do you think ? Do you feel like : "Look at this idiot he was lying about prices, he is just too lazy to farm , he just want to be rich by doing nothing" ? I think you dont. I guess you will see that I am right and that everything what i said about prices is true. The only thing i didnt mention is farming for weapon/armor/goldsmithing and tailoring are totaly useless . Its not even worth to have it. Only for crafting level 90 with all prays to be 3-4 star.
I have been thinking about this problem for a months in Vindictus and I came up on my mind with idea that might MIGHT work. So here is the thing : Lets say you have like 5 Orbs in marketplace , 1 from person A , 1 from person B, 1 from person C, 1 from person D and 1 from person E. They put prices like this :
A-20.000
B-25.000
C-30.000
D-35.000
E-40.000
So if I want to put my orbs in shop , there should be some kind of limit, that wouldnt let me to put orbs under 20.000 gold per unit. So prices will only rise and rise. But. Yea, there is always ,,BUT,, . If orbs completely dissapear from shop ( somebody buys them all ) you can set your price in the shop without limits. Only thing there should be is a limit per item . which means orbs cant be in marketplace under THEIR OWN PRICE ORDERED BY NEXON. Lets say Godly Iron ore completely dissapeared from marketplace and you want to put it. You write in 30.000 gold per unit but it wont let you . Why? Their limit in marketplace, no matter if there is or isnt in shop any of it, is, lets say 40,000, so you must put or 40.0000 gold per unit or higher. With this players could use megas, so if they dont want to buy from marketplace, they can buy from players who farmed and sell it on megaphones. This would improve game much more and people will have FOR WHAT to play. For example if I look on marketplace and see that ruby belt is 20k in shop i wont play S2 maps because i dont have for what to play. There i wont earn money, only lose time.