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Cromm sucks hard - why is this a Special raid?!


  • CloakshireCloakshire
    Vindictus Rep: 4,580
    Posts: 646
    edited November 20, 2019
    Abaddan wrote: »
    I wouldn't waste my breath. Cloak just likes to argue on these forums. Doesn't matter what it's about or even if it's the same topic.
    This is probably why I dislike it when people skip mechanics as it robs me of the full battle experience
    Go solo it all then. Full battle experience right there, literally 100%.

    Basically all bosses are braindead even for solos. You get good enough at redeemers they become semi brain dead too. I have more fun smacking them then I do watching them float around though. I'd be more than fine getting rid of all cut scenes. Only hinders my chars already RNG dps. Once you run the new raids like 5 times they're more or less braindead already, don't put me to sleep with the same cut scene over and over.

    Oh Abaddan, you know me so well :)

    I would solo more, but I enjoy the sense of camaraderie when fighting alongside other people. I also happen to like seeing everything a fight has to offer. Quite the catch 22 I'm afraid :(

    Btw, one of our guildies has some cestus Karok related questions. Would it be cool if I directed him to you? Even though we've butted heads on the forums, I still respect the hell out of you as a player and trust that you'd be able to enlighten my friend when it comes to Cestus.
  • CloakshireCloakshire
    Vindictus Rep: 4,580
    Posts: 646
    edited November 21, 2019
    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Vlad summed it up very beautifully in their post. We do these raids dozens of times generally speaking and 'only 30 seconds of cutscenes' adds up very quickly. Agares is the worst because I can't even Cast Save during his bullshit. At least in something like Lugh I can save attacks or throw out regen or something.

    Look, I don't wanna try and have to correct you again. First you say that Cromm's waves are unavoidable as Evie which I proved to be incorrect. You say that Agares is the worst offender b/c you can't cast save during his BS. Wrong again I'm afraid.

    Looks like during the first ~10 second scene where he goes immune at the start of pillar phase, you can fit in some quick cast saving.

    It also looks like the ~6 second window he's immune at the end of pillar phase is a good opportunity to charge up a Rage Conductor.

    But for all I know, you could be referring to the down time during Agares's execution move. I already established that complaining about it is moot because whether or not it happens is the fault of your party members. But just for you, I'll show that you can still do stuff during an execution.

    Even though you can't move or use your hotkeys during an execution, you can still click skills/items on your hotbar. You could pop pots or repair your armor, but this Evie chose to not only prep her Continual Focus for when Agares becomes vulnerable, but also casts regen. Good stuff.

    So tell me again how Agares is the worst offender because you apparently can't "save attacks or throw out a regen." I thought you were supposed to be a veteran Evie from S1 Glas days. I don't even play Evie and I've already had to correct you twice now.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    I like proactive aspects of raids. Have a new version of Liono where we can bomb him off for stuns and damage or Kraken where you have to attack the tents. Those are things involving players attacking the boss in a way. Wandering around dodging AOE spam for two minutes is like playing an especially shitty rhythm game where you press the spacebar to win. I'm not actively participating in anything at that point except some contrived endurance test.

    I didn't know that trying to preserve your life during a boss's last attempt to take you with him wasn't proactive. I guess you could perceive pro-activeness purely in terms of dealing damage to the boss. But one could equally perceive that the act of surviving Cromm's final phase as dealing damage to him b/c thematically, he is giving his life to take you down. If you survive, you're responsible for the damage he did to himself on the last bar. However, this just boils down to a matter of perception and opinion. You don't like Cromm's last phase b/c you can't attack and are forced to wait. I enjoy it b/c it fits the tone of the battle and I have fun getting absorbed in the fight and trying to survive.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    You don't see me complaining the same way about Redeemers, far and away harder than Cromm and something I'm also far and away worse at, because the rules don't just change arbitrarily at the end to screw with the player. From the get go, Neam gates kill if you don't dodge them (usually) and if your party wipes at any point you lose, bam. I respect that because it's constant. It doesn't introduce those mechanics right at the end to artificially pad the raid's difficulty.

    Not complaining about Redeemers? .....really?

    I'll acknowledge that these complaints don't run along the exact same lines as your take on Cromm. However, I have a question. What do you think of Balor's last phase? The phase where the rules "change arbitrarily at the end to screw with the player."

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    I misspoke with the Dulla thing. I meant to phrase it like, people don't take the slow route in that. They want to facetank the start of it and keep him out of the middle at the end. If 3/4s of my party doesn't want to do it the slow way, I'm not gonna single-handedly convince them to take the extra time out to do it, especially not in the era of 2000 ATT Cap Removal whale-types who average 40% damage a run-they don't wanna take an extra minute or three to let the phase happen.

    Let me make myself as clear as I can here. No one is telling you that you have to convince other party members. Your three party members can facetank the last 3 bars all they want. You could always walk away from the boss while your party members handle the facetanking at the end. However, the moment you decide to join them, you revoke your ability to have a legitimate complaint about facetanking him. You made the choice.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    Dunno how you draw the conclusion that I don't like additional complexity when you start that post off by recognizing that I like Abom chains and Macha spearing (which I do like). If you're gonna take control of the pacing from the party, at least add something to do like Arcana's kicking phase. It changes the mechanics, presents a way to fail, while also giving the player something to do by letting you kick her to end the phase quicker. Zec raising his power, the latest Elchy and his flying phase, hell every dragon and its flying phase gives the player something to do.

    Then let me rephrase myself. I think that you do not like additional complexity IF it's something you cannot quickly grasp and get good at. Abom's chains and Macha's sword tossing are both easy mechanics. Cromm's last phase apparently wasn't easy for you therefore you gave up on it back in S2.

    Cromm's last phase also changes the mechanics, presents a way to fail, and gives you something to do. The mechanic 2:10 AoE survival gauntlet where the way to fail is by everyone dying. As for what there is to do, it's paying attention to your position as well as your party member's positions; dodging accordingly to ensure your survival. If you pay super close attention, you'll notice a predictable and slightly manipulatable pattern to waves.

    FlameSama1 wrote: »
    What's the first thing you do when you get into a raid, actually jump into the fight after campfire and everything? Mash the ESC key to skip the cutscene asap. Because all it does is just drag the fight out. These AOE dodge sessions are like that. Overly long segments that slow the pace of the game down to a halt and highlight your frustrations if you happen to have a bad run or some reason.

    Intro cinematics, as well as those annoying cutscenes after certain raid bosses are annoying and I'm in favor of skipping them. Even the scene between Macha's first and second phase should be skippable imo. But those scenes take place outside of the fight itself. Small cinematic scenes that take place during a fight such as Claire's bar 3 scene, Agares's pillar scenes, Balor's phase transition scenes, etc don't really bother me. I don't think a 2:10 second gauntlet of dodging AoE's is that bad and while it does slow the fight down, you still gotta try and survive which technically gives the player something to do.

    If you don't want your frustrations to be highlighted in Cromm's last phase, go into the lvl 80 version on hero mode and practice it. It may seem pointless b/c you're practicing something that doesn't directly damage the boss, but getting good at that last phase lets you potentially be the deciding factor on if a raid clears or fails. You can turn that highlighted frustration into a feeling of accomplishment. I know you can :)
  • AtherionAtherion
    Vindictus Rep: 3,520
    Posts: 301
    Can we double the length of the oxidation phase please, it has my favourite track from the entire game kthxbye.