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"Human beings AREN'T PROGRAMMED, and the game mechanics allow for adjusting the timing of attacks within single animation (you can use them a bit earlier or with delay)... meaning that for example, even if you'd seen a Scythe Evie doing dodge in your direction (expecting that she will attack) you CAN NOT precisely adjust/predict the timing - and the reason is because THERE IS NO DATA AVAILABLE WHICH YOU COULD USE TO DEDUCE SUCH INFORMATION. Not only that, but the attacks can be repeated one after another, which would make your prediction pointless EVEN IF YOU SUCCEED (especially that normal attacks knock opponent down), because you're prevented by 'animation cooldown' from performing any actions."
"Now if you look at PvP, again - the interactions aren't 100% predictable at all. 1. You can't know the exact timing 2. You can't know the exact positioning"
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I already posted how to counter that, I simply cannot understand how a Scythe Evie blinking towards you is "no data that you could use to deduce [how to dodge it]"...
Seriously that must be the most ignorant thing I have ever come across, because if someone did that in arena, you would be all over it explaining how to beat it if evie blinks towards you.
I can't comprehend what you're trying to argue anymore because many of your arguments also apply to arena, but you're trying to simplify it by "oh well smash > grab > dodge" and "no info available in boat pvp!" and "varied timings make boat pvp impossible" when none of these are true and anyone that has tried boat pvp will know so.
It seems very disrespectful to me for someone to invade an arena channel where people are trading because they want to avoid grinding the absurd brokenness that is arena, when there are 2 other channels you can fight people who want to fight. Entering PvE boats and leeching is different, 'cuz you're taking up the spot of a party member that could otherwise be doing damage. Unless ch1 and ch2 are full, nobody in ch3 is affecting any of the other arena pvpers. You going in to ch3 to stop their trading is being a bully lol.
Anyway this is likely my last post on the subject lol my conclusion is you're a meathead, I laid out the arguments as best as I could have but you're simply not willing to change your opinion in the slightest or even be SLIGHTLY informed of the mechanics of boat pvp. I already wasted enough of my time in this thread and you're continuing to ignore every valid point I've brought up by saying "oh but timings and dodges aren't good enough!" without actually trying it.
I think my IQ went down from our discussions, I was hoping you would at least consider what I was saying, but evidently it is not the case.
As a last post I mentioned that 'Formation' the best spear lann boat pvper on West (with over 6000 boat duels) was able to do extremely well against everybody and even with added restrictions on himself to make things harder, and this was when spear lann dodge was 0.3 seconds and pretty much total garbage, and there was no belclaire.
@Arrow95 My friends said you were dueling with them earlier and that you were 'pretty good', I hope we can get some matches in sometime.
This isn't to undermine your knowledge in arena which I am sure you know a lot about and have a lot of experience with, but simply that you are willfully and considerably ignorant when it comes to boat pvp.
Take two computers and sit both characters in town. Press left on computer 1 and see how long it takes for that movement to register on computer 2.
How can you claim that spacing and skill matters in PvP when the character you are trying to attack is quite literally never where you are attacking anyway. The only reason you're hitting anything is because the hitbox of your attack may be hitting them as they slide away. So you are literally fighting a ghost that is not where you are attacking and the person you are fighting is also fighting a ghost of you that is not where you currently are. It's just hitboxes and remnants of "shadow" latency characters that you are fighting.
Spacing and skill doesn't matter at all. It's just -does your character have easily spammable invincibility frames that you can abuse to take as few hits as possible -does your character have an attack that does a lot of damage/covers a huge area so it will have a higher chance of hitting the ghost characters you are fighting
If your character covers both of these then you will do better than using a character who can't do these two things.
@Cessa not sure if your talking about Arena pvp/Freematch pvp or just boat pvp, but don't shoot me but am gonna guess your talking about Arena/Freematch pvp. Spacing/skill brings a big factor, if you win or not and yes all characters have different attacks/Invuls but threw experience, you learn how to get around people attacks/dodges(the skill factor). If your in the same country its not gonna be that bad far as latency goes, like I live in Cananda and I play on Eu sometimes there is a delay, but I still pvp fine just have to predict my Enemy moves ahead of time. What am trying to say is if you really want to learn/be good a pvp you don't need that special op class just use the one you love the most and enjoy playing and with time/experience(Skill factor again oh no). you can overcome any class it wont be easy some classes have it easyer then others but it can be done just have to play Smart.
@Cessa it's different in town than in boat pvp, because in town you're using Nexon servers and in dungeons you are connecting to the host.
Anyway your post is hugely misinformed in regards to both boat pvp and arena pvp so I'm not going to bother saying anything else. "Spacing and skill doesn't matter at all" Please.
Are there any experienced pvpers out there who play sword Lann? I don't get what we can do without serious team backup. We have the worst mobility in the game so literally every other character can just chase you until you run out of stamina and effortlessly kill you. Glides also appear to do no damage, since the smash knocks them down.
Comments
Is it possible for people to be this ignorant?
You posted this earlier:
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"Human beings AREN'T PROGRAMMED, and the game mechanics allow for adjusting the timing of attacks within single animation (you can use them a bit earlier or with delay)... meaning that for example, even if you'd seen a Scythe Evie doing dodge in your direction (expecting that she will attack) you CAN NOT precisely adjust/predict the timing - and the reason is because THERE IS NO DATA AVAILABLE WHICH YOU COULD USE TO DEDUCE SUCH INFORMATION. Not only that, but the attacks can be repeated one after another, which would make your prediction pointless EVEN IF YOU SUCCEED (especially that normal attacks knock opponent down), because you're prevented by 'animation cooldown' from performing any actions."
"Now if you look at PvP, again - the interactions aren't 100% predictable at all.
1. You can't know the exact timing
2. You can't know the exact positioning"
-------
I already posted how to counter that, I simply cannot understand how a Scythe Evie blinking towards you is "no data that you could use to deduce [how to dodge it]"...
Seriously that must be the most ignorant thing I have ever come across, because if someone did that in arena, you would be all over it explaining how to beat it if evie blinks towards you.
I can't comprehend what you're trying to argue anymore because many of your arguments also apply to arena, but you're trying to simplify it by "oh well smash > grab > dodge" and "no info available in boat pvp!" and "varied timings make boat pvp impossible" when none of these are true and anyone that has tried boat pvp will know so.
It seems very disrespectful to me for someone to invade an arena channel where people are trading because they want to avoid grinding the absurd brokenness that is arena, when there are 2 other channels you can fight people who want to fight. Entering PvE boats and leeching is different, 'cuz you're taking up the spot of a party member that could otherwise be doing damage. Unless ch1 and ch2 are full, nobody in ch3 is affecting any of the other arena pvpers. You going in to ch3 to stop their trading is being a bully lol.
Anyway this is likely my last post on the subject lol my conclusion is you're a meathead, I laid out the arguments as best as I could have but you're simply not willing to change your opinion in the slightest or even be SLIGHTLY informed of the mechanics of boat pvp. I already wasted enough of my time in this thread and you're continuing to ignore every valid point I've brought up by saying "oh but timings and dodges aren't good enough!" without actually trying it.
I think my IQ went down from our discussions, I was hoping you would at least consider what I was saying, but evidently it is not the case.
As a last post I mentioned that 'Formation' the best spear lann boat pvper on West (with over 6000 boat duels) was able to do extremely well against everybody and even with added restrictions on himself to make things harder, and this was when spear lann dodge was 0.3 seconds and pretty much total garbage, and there was no belclaire.
@Arrow95 My friends said you were dueling with them earlier and that you were 'pretty good', I hope we can get some matches in sometime.
Press left on computer 1 and see how long it takes for that movement to register on computer 2.
How can you claim that spacing and skill matters in PvP when the character you are trying to attack is quite literally never where you are attacking anyway. The only reason you're hitting anything is because the hitbox of your attack may be hitting them as they slide away. So you are literally fighting a ghost that is not where you are attacking and the person you are fighting is also fighting a ghost of you that is not where you currently are. It's just hitboxes and remnants of "shadow" latency characters that you are fighting.
Spacing and skill doesn't matter at all. It's just
-does your character have easily spammable invincibility frames that you can abuse to take as few hits as possible
-does your character have an attack that does a lot of damage/covers a huge area so it will have a higher chance of hitting the ghost characters you are fighting
If your character covers both of these then you will do better than using a character who can't do these two things.
Anyway your post is hugely misinformed in regards to both boat pvp and arena pvp so I'm not going to bother saying anything else. "Spacing and skill doesn't matter at all" Please.